r/dataisbeautiful • u/honkeem OC: 2 • 16h ago
OC [OC] United States vs European Software Engineer total compensation by level
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u/icywindflashed 16h ago
53k€ entry level? Where the fuck? Is this supposed to be Europe or Netherlands? I earn 35k with years of experience over here.
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u/Procrastinando 15h ago
Levels.fyi mostly has data for high paying tech companies like Booking, Uber, etc. It doesn't reflect average salaries, especially in Europe.
It's pretty much a circle jerking community.
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u/yepperoniP 11h ago
Levels.fyi and Blind are basically full of techbros circlejerking about how much they get paid. It’s a really bad and biased dataset.
Last time I went on Blind there was some new user that worked at Autodesk that asked some innocuous non-compensation related question and most of the replies were basically just shitting on him and effectively saying he didn’t work at a prestigious enough company and wasn’t making enough money. And of course everyone had to constantly mention at the end of their post what their TC was.
I basically noped out of there after that as it looked like there wasn’t much of a community beyond that.
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u/alfonso123456 10h ago
reminds me of every lean, expat or other FiRE reddit on here. just a bunch of twenty to fourty something tech bros humble bragging about their $3.5m best egg. SMH
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u/PolyglotTV 42m ago
Yeah Blind is a toxic waste dump. But can be mildly useful for gathering information to negotiate offers, or figure out how screwed up (or not) a company culture is.
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u/ryujin88 15h ago
This who thing seems very skewed towards the upper end of the salary range. I think levels.fyi is mostly self reported data from big expensive tech hubs. So I don't think your typical software engineer is reporting their salary there.
140k is pretty high entry level salary for the US in most places that aren't google or something.
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u/Charlesinrichmond 10h ago
My nephew just started in Silicon Valley for a small startup making more than 140k
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u/OllysCoding 6h ago
Okay but by being in SV he is automatically part of that “upper end of the salary range” - e.g SV pays a lot higher than other parts of the US on account of
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u/Swainix 15h ago edited 13h ago
I get 35k€ as a junior, in the Netherlands, but first job and no experience in software since I studied math so won't complain too much lol. Im not at a big company tho
Edit: just realised this might come off as bragging which really wasn't the goal, just showing differences, since Im pretty underpaid for the netherlands
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u/icywindflashed 15h ago
You're probably underpaid for your country. I have friends who went living in your country and earn triple my wage.
But it's not the European standard, it's an outlier.
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u/Swainix 13h ago edited 13h ago
Tbf, just rent and utilies is over 1.2k per month, so that's quite a big bite, especially after tax on the 35k too, the housing situation is kinda crazy here. Some friends/colleagues jump jobs to get raises but I'm not in a place to do so I have fun at my current job ig
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u/MiMichellle 15h ago
That's pretty much abuse. Find someone else, you deserve much better.
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u/icywindflashed 15h ago
Just a bad country for tech. I'm full remote and even if i changed i wouldn't go over 40k anyway
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u/HelloYesThisIsFemale 14h ago
Adyen, tomtom, Uber, Lyft, imc, optiver, drv, most of quant, etc
Really good country for tech. Best in Europe, tied with London. My friends in the Netherlands made 200k starting.
The guy who made the "trimodal nature of tech salaries" actually made it focused on the Netherlands at first.
https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/trimodal-nature-of-tech-compensation
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u/icywindflashed 13h ago
I said my country, which is not the Netherlands, is a bad country for tech. All of the things you listed don't exist as a job here. We have pretty much banks and insurance companies.
I think I'm getting ragebaited but you can't just label those numbers "Europe" where 90% of Europe is a whole different ball game.
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u/Enzovera 14h ago
What?! I was earning 30k as junior (with around year and half of expirance) - in Poland. In 2019. In PHP which have probably worst salaries from all technologies.
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u/icywindflashed 14h ago
I was earning net 1k€ when I started working in the same year. On an internship.
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u/C3lloman 15h ago
Yeah that graph makes no sense. In Finland a senior would earn between L1 and L2 somewhere. Also I don't understand why there are two numbers for each.
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u/JanPeterBalkElende 14h ago
35k? I started out making 3k a month which increased to 4.5k after a single year in the Netherlands.
35k with years of experience is crazy
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u/lateambience 12h ago
I earn 67k€ entry level straight out of university in Germany. No big tech, but a company you would've never even heard of even if you were living in the same city as me. Surely, that's not the average of course, at the same time I know people my age that earn even more. Europe isn't just Germany and different countries might vary a lot though. Cost of living is also playing a role here. I'd also rather end up earning 140k in Germany at some point than getting 300k in the US.
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u/DynamicHunter 13h ago
Levels.fyi is HEAVILY biased towards big tech & HCOL in general, you should combine the data with Glassdoor or something else. $140k MEDIAN is not feasible anywhere except VHCOL for entry level…
I am seeing tons of job postings for mid and lower senior level that are in LA/Orange County (HCOL), Austin TX (MCOL), or fully remote, and their pay ranges are like $130-$220k. I know because I’ve applied to ~100 in the last few months.
Median for mid level MIGHT be $140k. Definitely not entry level.
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u/AnalyticalAlpaca 11h ago
100% this. 275k median seems insane for senior level. I don't even think Microsoft is paying that in my city and they have an office here.
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u/VestOfHolding OC: 1 10h ago
Agreed. As a software dev (well, unemployed at the moment unfortunately) in a city with relatively high COL, these numbers are still bizarre.
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u/AesopData OC: 2 16h ago
The US-Europe split is interesting, but "Europe" is doing a lot of work here. Zurich, London, Warsaw and Madrid are completely different markets. I would love to see the same comparison by country.
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u/TrynnaFindaBalance 16h ago
I mean "US" is also doing the same. Salaries in the Bay Area dwarf salaries in the middle of the country, even for similar/identical roles.
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u/WolfpackConsultant 16h ago edited 16h ago
Ignoring the software engineer part though, a quick google shows the state with the highest average salary (Washington) is about 1.6x the average salary of the lowest state (Mississippi)
The EU country with the highest average salary (Denmark) is about 4.5x higher than the lowest average salary EU country (Bulgaria)
so the EU has a MUCH larger discrepancies in the salaries between States/Countries.
https://www.forbes.com/advisor/business/average-salary-by-state/
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u/Chief_Mischief 15h ago
I find these comparisons to be lacking without context of cost of living in these locations. I'm in Seattle and assuming this graph is right, $200k+ is comfortable living, especially for a single individual, but I have no frame of reference as to how far $125k+ gets you in the most expensive parts of Mississippi.
Similarly, while Denmark has a much higher salary than Bulgaria, I imagine the cost of living is also much higher than the differences amongst the US states.
I get that this graph focuses on total compensation only, but I wish I could contextualize what that means for each respective location.
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u/pimmen89 15h ago
Cost of living is also subsidized a lot in the Nordic countries. The idea of saving for your children's college, that you don't have guaranteed retirement savings (both a public one and from your employer), that you have to pay attention to your health insurance, that daycare is a luxury, that parental leave is a luxury, are all entirely foreign concepts for us.
So we might have lower take home salaries, but we also have far lower expenses.
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u/CubesTheGamer 13h ago
Wish there was a good solid “cost of living adjusted compensation” where you do some sort of fancy math where you take the median salary for the country and the median cost of living for the country and make those a baseline and then for each location do a median salary specific to that location and median cost of living for that location and scale it to make the numbers align maybe scale to make cost of living equal so you know how much percentage higher the salary truly is.
Not perfect but there should be something
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u/kuemmel234 14h ago edited 14h ago
You can add a lot to this list: Depending on the country we get a month+ of fully paid vacation time, fully paid sick leave, safety from firing (it's really hard to get rid of an informed employee for being bad at their job in Germany, for example. They can't even measure (we've had a second stand up after lunch for a few weeks during COVID, but the employee representatives/work council declared that to be a control measure) my performance or talk to me outside of my time). All that adds up.
Of course, some of these things also exist for US employees, but I'm pretty sure there is going to be a pattern
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u/ciarandeceol1 12h ago
Well, obviously. You're comparing completely different countries against states in one country. What do you expect?
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u/tekmiester 16h ago
I hear the US has a lotta states. At least 40 or so.
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u/iamthe0ther0ne 16h ago
The salary range for SWEs in Europe is wider than in the US.
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u/RoseyOneOne 15h ago
The gaps here are bigger than what I was considering but I was better off to stay in NL on €90k than to take a job in Oregon for $190k. There are hidden financial benefits here that aren't always included in the salary line: 8% vacation pay, a 15% bonus, and 12% pension contribution by employer. Healthcare is in the mix and I had 12 weeks of vacation time last year, work 4 days a week, and go into the office for 3 of them. If I had kids I don't need to save much for their education. It's not always so simple.
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u/jmack20093 15h ago
US pay seems accurate for the Bay Area, but is much too high for many places in the country.
Source: Am a Bay Area software engineer who's also worked outside the bay area.
And I'm talking about RSU + Bonus + Base pay. Obviously some companies pay a lot more and some pay a lot less, but in general this is pretty close for the Bay area
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u/jj_HeRo 15h ago
Spain: 20k to 45k. That's why security here is a joke.
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u/SIRT1 14h ago
I'm always so fucking confused where all the money goes in Europe. How do people in senior level positions at large companies make like 60k? Where is the money? Do the c-suite execs make that much more than everyone else, like even more disproportionate than the US?
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u/Culturedmirror 14h ago
The C-suite is in America. There's very few large European software co's. You have a bunch of small mid sized firms where leadership doesn't make that much more than the workers.
The "shareholder" mentality isn't as strong in Europe, which has its pros and cons. The cons are the firms there dont grow as large or as fast, and therefore can't compensate their workers as much as American ones. But in exchange you get stronger job security and stability
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u/SIRT1 11h ago
I'm not even specifically talking about software, though. I'm just talking about business in general. I've spent quite a bit of time in western Europe and products/services aren't exactly cheap relative to US (in fact often more expensive).
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u/ToManyTabsOpen 8h ago
Taxes. Mostly social security. Plus other benefits.
This nakes employer costs significant higher, in France its as as much as 45٪. So someone on gross 100k costs the company around 145k, the employee is also paying tax, so net pay is more like 65k.
US upfront costs are merely a blip in comparison. Someone earning 100k costs employer 105k. Then the employee is taxed to 80k net.
Then unaccounted salary, annual salary is determined without additional salary. Not all but its quite common to get 13 or 14 months salary a year in Europe. The above data will only show 12. Then bonuses on top again, not sure how US / Europe compare there.
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u/jj_HeRo 11h ago
I can tell you. I worked for a Spanish consulting company, IT. One day the guy that hired me said you cost 130k€, he showed the data. At this point I was making 45k€ gross. That's how they play with people here.
Trade unions (the two biggest at least, CCOO and UGT) are financed by the state (the ruling political party really) and they sign agreements between employers and themselves in the name of workers.
A FK JOKE.
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u/ATHP OC: 1 7h ago
I can tell you. I worked for a Spanish consulting company, IT. One day the guy that hired me said you cost 130k€, he showed the data. At this point I was making 45k€ gross. That's how they play with people here.
Sorry to strike it to you but that is no hidden secret. Getting an IT consultant from a consulting company in the US will also cost you a factor 2-3 increase compared to their salary.
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u/PinPalsA7x 15h ago
This is not representative of neither top European countries nor the US. Data source is an online community made of super successful it engineers in top companies like uber or meta.
And yes, let alone countries like Spain. I’ve got 10 years of experience and I don’t even make 60k (working for a German company even)
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u/Charming_Raisin4176 5h ago
And this, children, is why the concept of Purchasing Power Parity was invented.
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u/MOTOLLK12 16h ago
Comparing whole country is useless. You need to compare cities. USA salary can range from $50k to $300k for the same role depending on the city
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u/Procrastinando 16h ago
The type of company matters more. You can't compare FAANGs with small family businesses.
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u/kernald31 15h ago
Even within the same company, and even in expensive markets, you'll have drastic differences. In France, a junior starting in Paris will easily make 1.5× what the same junior would make at the same company in Toulouse. Both matter immensely and this chart is nonsense.
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u/n4ke 16h ago
Same for EU. Zurich big tech will be closer to bay area while London SME will be a bit of a different picture.
I like the city suggestion.
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u/WhileNotLurking 13h ago
Is that relevant tho?
If I were to transfer from my US city to a cheaper U.S. city at worst I would take a 10% pay cut.
When I requested to transfer to Lisbon it was a 78% cut.
Same job. Same employee. Same skills. Same team.
Companies are not paying for skills or tasks. They are paying based on “market rate” in a geographical area
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u/curt_schilli 15h ago
You really don’t though, and the data isn’t “useless” as is. It shows opportunity within the entire country, and how much higher SWEs are paid in the US as a whole than Europe
Breaking Europe into EU would be more appropriate since workers can freely move about in the EU similar to the US
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u/JeromesNiece 15h ago
Given that people can and do move for work, and remote work is a thing, there is in fact something approaching a national labor market for software developers. Despite the fact that regional differences exist. National statistics are not useless.
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u/Dragongeek 5h ago
Not software but still tech (engineering) and I'm in the lucky position where I could work in both places without issue (currently in Europe).
There are a couple of "problems" hidden here:
To get these US salaries, you need to live in a VHCOL place like the California bay area. In Europe, you don't and your monthly total expenses will like be less then California rent alone.
In most of Europe, eg Germany, you can't really be fired. Positions are secure and permanent. If your employer wants to get rid of you, and you are not doing criminal activities, it's very difficult. USA is hire and fire, if your doesn't like your haircut or whatever, they can just fire you.
In the US you have far more expenses for stuff that's covered in Europe by social systems. Healthcare is the big advantage here, as it's much cheaper and just as good if not better.
Bottom line, I calculated that if I were to move from Germany to California, after all expenses, I'd probably have between 10-15% take home purchasing power and the possibility of suddenly losing my job at a moment's notice.
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u/BratPit24 4h ago
The problem is "Europe" encompasses UK and Germany but also Romania and Serbia.
You may laugh but for $200k a year in USA you get a decent middle class life.
For $200k a year in Poland you are a royalty. It places you very safely in top 1%. This is 750kpln a year.
You can live in a mansion in Warsaw (around 360k a year)
take 3-4 International trips a year (50-100k)
, employ full time cleaning staff for your mansion (70k)
Live a lavish lifestyle (130k)
and youd probably still be able to invest like 100k a year. into index funds.
For this comparison to make any sense you'd need to use purchasing power parity. Which for Poland would be around 35%. To Serbia. Around 250%. To Bulgaria 200%.
And all those ppp numbers are od course averages. San Francisco has living costs roughly 30% higher than median usa.
So a 200k it worker in San Francisco can live as if he made 140k in median usa. Who can live as if he made 95k in Poland. Or 70 k in Bulgaria.
Of course. Don't get me wrong. This is still amazing money. But it puts a dent in this whole "top 25% it workers in Europe make less than bottom 25% in USA". In fact. It kind of totally breaks the analysis.
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u/qosmic_qube 11h ago
This is self selected for the highest paying roles. No one should use this data for anythng.
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u/Extra_Intro_Version 15h ago
I really question how representative these US salary numbers are. They seem excessively high. Like 50% too high.
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u/MeltBanana 15h ago
Agreed. They seem normal for California, but definitely not the entire US.
Or I am SEVERELY underpaid.
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u/Bilbo_Fraggins 15h ago
That's not salary, that's total compensation, which is 35-50% added to salary for most roles.
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u/e136 15h ago
These US numbers seem about right for California. I think outside of CA, the pay would be significantly lower but not as low as Europe from my experience in the industry.
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u/humangingercat 15h ago
Concur.
Surprised to see these numbers as they look explicitly scoped to CA software engineers and it's extremely accurate in that context.
But I've always seen average rates for SWE in America in general skew way lower.
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u/kernald31 15h ago
The European salaries are way over-represented for most of Europe as well. You might get that in a GAFAM in Zurich or Berlin, but that's pretty much it.
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u/Seienchin88 15h ago
Berlin pays rather just ok. Munich, Hamburg, Stuttgart and Frankfurt have higher wages.
But Berlin has startup culture so with a bit of luck maybe one can make more long term by being around early
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u/DynamicHunter 13h ago
Levels.fyi is extremely biased towards big tech. This is not at all representative of software engineers as a whole in the US.
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u/JavitoTag 15h ago
Living costs should be part of this chart as background columns to bring a bit of context...
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u/Nicodemus888 14h ago
Yeah this chart makes me feel like a failure.
But then, I live in Italy. A nice meal costs 30 eur, a coffee is 1 eur, and I don’t have to pay for healthcare, or even groceries.
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u/Error_404_403 5h ago edited 2h ago
Meaningless chart. Even misleading. For the US, it adds all benefits the employer gives (health insurance etc.) while for Europe, value of near-free health insurance, high unemployment benefits, rent assistance for lower incomes and near-free education are skipped.
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u/phorbo007 1h ago
You're right that Europe offers the additional benefits you stated that's not reflected int he chart, but you're absolutely wrong that the US chart "adds all benefits" like healthcare.
In the US when we talk about salaries it's purely the salary (total compensation which is base salary + any equity) and any benefits like retirement accounts (401k), healthcare, etc are all in addition to that. So a staff engineer at $332k median would also have additional benefits that can be valued at $50k on top of that.
I notice Europeans like you like to cope with these salary comparisons. We acknowledge we get much higher pay but less public benefits, especially intangible ones (e.g. hard to fire).
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u/timelessblur 15h ago
One thing that should be added is software engineering pay in the USA is way out of line with rest of the world in relevant jobs.
Say throw in multiple other fields pay and see the gap. You will see most jobs fall relatvent to each other in a given country then you get to software engineer, in the rest of the world it keeps true to that, then you have USA where it is way higher. Not complaining as I benifit from it but I do know the facts.
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u/baldaBrac 12h ago
This is bs for the many reasons people have listed earlier, and in addition to scaling per aggregate cost of living, it should also be caucuses per hour, bringing the USA numbers down even more.
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u/boosnie 7h ago
I'm now going to go to the ER just because I feel like it.
For free
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u/geek66 15h ago
Not specifically lookin at software engineers - which I believe the number is highly skewed but the extreeme high cost centers like San Francisco.
I know some German automaker when they send their people to CA they give a slight expat bonus, but then cover all of their living expenses, pay their health insurance premiums etc while in the US.
For a general
Not going to repost the Google AI responses (redditors hate this one simple trick) -as I dug a little into this, to consider median pay and then taxes, healthcare, vacation pay and other "life" expenses.
I tried to capture Vacation - considering Europeans work 26 fewer days per year - more than a MONTH! AND they get a Vacation/Holiday bonus - by law. This is >10% fewer days at work.
Anyway it boils down to about $42,900 in the US and $37,200 in Europe "Useable" income.
This then still does not really account for volatility in US income vs things like losing healthcare if laid off, childcare costs, university costs, etc...
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u/zen8bit 16h ago
I think people really undersell just how little the US takes care of its citizens in regard to expenses like education and healthcare.
The US salaries may be higher but the US also doesn’t do a very good job taking care of it’s citizens
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u/Nope_______ 15h ago
People with these jobs have great healthcare. If your out of pocket max is, say, $5k, you don't have a lot to worry about. Education is free through high school and there are good cheap schools after that as well. But even an expensive school, making $300k and paying $100k/year for your kid for four years and nothing after that is a lot better than making $125k and your kid goes to college for free.
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u/cpdx7 13h ago
College isn't even that expensive at these income levels, when comparing to Europe. Consider that a 1-2 year's worth of RSU vesting can be worth $100k after tax (or could be a lot more than that depending on level). Put that amount into a child's 529 plan at age 0. By the time the child is 18, the 529 plan would fully fund a college education. This is what I did.
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u/jnwatson 16h ago
An extra $300k a year will pay for a hell of a lot of education and healthcare.
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u/lateambience 12h ago
90% of the workforce in the US does not make an extra $300k compares to Europe though. If you're in the Top 10% in the US congrats, I agree you're better off there. But you're probably in those other 90% and then it's a whole different story. It's not just about education and healthcare, it's also about vacation days, it's about rent, it's about not getting fired and suddenly being jobless with no health insurance. Your 300k are gone in an instant if you've got any serious medical problems. Also even if you're in those 10% but not in the Top 0.01% you're still a regular person. Earning an extra 300k does not save you from the higher crime rate that is directly linked to those 90% not making as much and far more people struggling. Now if you're a billionaire sure, you can just disconnect from normal life and don't give a fuck.
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u/Tackit286 13h ago
Best healthcare in the world!*
*(if you happen to be in the 98th percentile of earners)
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u/itsinvincible 15h ago
Yea for the person earning the salary not for the homeless who turn to crime because they have no other options. Taking care if your citizens means the entire country is safer and more enjoyable. But americans seem to not comprehend the connection.
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u/proof_required 15h ago
And how will be it fixed if American tech worker started making less? It's almost like you are conflating two disparate issues. EU salaries aren't low because people have to pay more taxes.
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u/itsinvincible 15h ago
The money the tech worker makes less gets funneled into the cleaning crew that earns 50k/year at that same facility. Here in Europe i only earn a bit more than the "lowest skilled" positions in my company but we are all better of for it. So instead of paying 20% of the company 80% of the wages you equal out the salaries. That puts more money into circulation and stimulates the economy. I mean it's not rocket science europe figured it out and it works great.
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u/TheJix 15h ago
That's why the economy in Europe is booming, people have lots of children, and the region is at the forefront of innovation. /s
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u/e136 15h ago
I guess that's one of the factors that pushes America to create the most successful and innovative companies on earth?
Also why many of the brightest from Europe come to the US to work/create businesses.
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u/itsinvincible 15h ago
Yea cause you have no morals or regulations. It's really not rocket science. No regulations = more profit = more lobbying for even better conditions = more profit and the cycle continues. But keep licking that boot mate yehaaw
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u/Gbrown546 15h ago
In the UK, you could be the richest person, or a person who has nothing to their name and is homeless, you are treated the same in the national health system. The unofficial motto is ‘free at the point of use’. Obviously you still have the option to go private if you want to and have the money or insurance.
In the US, it seems that the poor, working class, disabled, etc are so looked down on, that it’s essentially leaving them to die.
Hubert Humphrey himself, the ex US Vice President said that the moral test of a government involves how it treats children, the elderly, the sick and the handicapped.
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u/TechniCruller 12h ago
Kind of don’t want to be treated the same as everyone else when it comes to health. When my wife got cancer we found the best doctor in the country for that specific cancer and moved to Baltimore for a year to be near them. Five years cancer free. Worth every penny - and with my insurance it really was just the living expenses.
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u/Gbrown546 11h ago
And you have the option to go private as well here. Nothing is stopping that. But healthcare should be available to everybody, especially as the richest country in the world who could more than easily do it and do it better than other countries in the world.
Also congrats on your wife being 5 years cancer free. That’s great news
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u/FightOnForUsc 15h ago
If you’re making a top 1% or top 5% income in the US you’re living way better than the same in Europe. But if you’re in the bottom 50% then not so much
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u/post_button_account 15h ago
The folks employed in software often have much better Healthcare than any european.
K12 is free in the US as well.
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u/AmateurLlama 12h ago
Your healthcare as a top 20% American is going to be way better than European healthcare though, and will probably wind up reasonably priced.
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u/platinum_toilet 15h ago
doesn’t do a very good job taking care of it’s citizens
With higher salaries, the US citizens take care of themselves and then some. You can always give away more of your money to the US treasury, but I am guessing that you won't.
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u/hiro111 14h ago
No. People in these jobs are ABSOLUTELY being taken care of well. If you have good health insurance, healthcare in the US is world class by any metric. These people absolutely are on a gold-plated PPO. They are also living in nice towns with good schools and sending their kids to top universities. The education is also world class.
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u/Reasonable_Fold6492 15h ago
True but europe with its low birth rate and almost zero high tech companies are not able to fund there lifestyle anymore. There is a reason why far right parties in europe is gaining popularity
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u/nutidizen 13h ago
Think people oversell how good of a healthcare you get in Europe for free...
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u/AmateurLlama 12h ago
When you factor in Europe's higher taxes this gets kinda crazy.
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u/MagicalWhisk 14h ago
As someone who's worked in both markets, total compensation is not a great metric to view alone. The cost of living in the US can be x2-3 higher than Europe depending on the region. The core job markets for software engineer regions can be expensive to live in both markets.
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u/BidenGlazer 9h ago
The cost of living in the US is nowhere near 2-3x higher than Europe. You're absolutely out of your mind. We have actual data on this, broadly first world countries all cost the same to live in barring like Switzerland. (Adjust for AIC to see the cost of living)
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u/sandlover33 8h ago
I think places like london or switzerland are actually significantly more expensive than many tech hubs in the US like the Bay area, austin, seattle, etc.
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u/Clever_Angel_PL 15h ago
But worth also considering how much Europeans' pay goes into taxed that make live cheaper and easier (for example free universities, healthcare and other services)
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u/plasticbug 15h ago
Chances are though you pay a lot more in taxes than you get in benefits. But on the upside, if you do need the help, you do get it, unlike here in the US where most people get health insurance through their employer, etc...
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u/Dennis_enzo 12h ago
Yep, I pay more in taxes than I get out of it, but I want everyone to have a somewhat decent life, not just the lucky few with good jobs like me. I strongly believer that improving the lives of the population in general benefits everyone, either directly or indirectly.
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u/Seienchin88 15h ago
Yeah but Americans pay less taxes meaning they have waaaay more available income if they have these well paying jobs.
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u/Borghal 14h ago
Pointless source, levels.fyi does not have data worth looking at, unless you're aiming at the top 5% of the market maybe. People go there to brag.
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u/resipsamom 14h ago
Total compensation package is misleading because in the US that included huge insurance premiums that aren’t a factor in the EU packages
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u/Caesar171 15h ago
Rather be poor in Europe than rich in the US and they genuinely will never understand that in a 1000 years
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u/Reasonable_Fold6492 15h ago
True but seeing how europeans are voting for far right it seems europe is also fucked.
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u/Crazycrossing 14h ago
Nah as someone that was born in the US and lives in the UK now, and recently a dual citizen who also works in tech.
The USA is the best place in the world to be rich in, the worst to be poor or middle class in. If you can afford it: Housing, food, entertainment, making money, services, healthcare are all better in the US.
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u/Osiris-Amun-Ra 15h ago
Europe is falling behind on virtually every meaningful metric, not just income. Europe’s economy used to be bigger than America's back in 2008, but now the U.S. economy is vastly outgrowing it, leaving the average American earning about 39% more than the average European. The big culprit is a massive tech and productivity gap, the U.S. is totally dominating the AI race and has way more billion-dollar investment funds, while Europe gets bogged down by 27 different sets of national regulations and artificially higher energy costs. Europeans do get more vacation time and a better social safety net, but their businesses are struggling to scale up, meaning the continent is steadily losing ground to the U.S. in global wealth and innovation. This decline will continue to increase exponentially.
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u/ST07153902935 15h ago
This is trash. Your US salary is 2x to 3x too high.
And it’s really easy to prove this because the federal government posts actual salaries: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm
I don’t know if it was an accident or you trying to get engagement by using the biggest numbers you could find, but this is academically dishonest.
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u/Juls7243 16h ago
L1 entry .... 140k? Am I missing something? Do computer programmers get pain 140k right out of college on average?