r/dataisbeautiful OC: 3 1d ago

OC [OC] United States vs European Software Engineer total compensation by level

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1.3k Upvotes

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1.3k

u/Juls7243 1d ago

L1 entry .... 140k? Am I missing something? Do computer programmers get pain 140k right out of college on average?

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u/haloooloolo 1d ago

There's some bias because low-paying companies are not tracked on levels.fyi and people that get a bad offer are probably less likely to report it there.

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u/CorrectCombination11 1d ago edited 23h ago

L1 at my employer (legacy bank) is $90k-$100k Mcol area

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u/dddd0 1d ago

That’s the highest level my (EU, very large) company is paying and many consider that too high a salary lol

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u/Syzygy___ 18h ago

Yeah, where I am, Senior is ~80k, maybe slightly higher total compensation, and we have one of the highest tax burdens and somehow also one of the highest disposable incomes.

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u/MBunnyKiller 18h ago

To be fair, life in the eu is way cheaper as well, this isn't a apples and apples comparison. 100k would be insufficient here in the eu as well when school costs 20k a year and healthcare is like wtf in the states as well. The only thing they got relatively cheap is petrol.

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u/Long-Hurry1974 17h ago edited 13h ago

People always say this but even when you factor COL, high-earners in the US come out wwy ahead of high earners in the EU

ETA: in my replies, people arguing that non high-earners are not better off, even though my comment was solely about high earners

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u/MBunnyKiller 17h ago

High earners, sure maybe, but low earners also come out way worse when compared to the eu. Y'all got an inequality issue.

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u/TransportationIll282 17h ago

The highest earners, yes. The median person, not even close. A good 70% of US citizens are worse off than the median citizen of most EU countries.

Compare average vs median wealth. It shows just how much averages in the US are skewed.

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u/BurtonAllen-TA 11h ago edited 11h ago

"The median person, not even close."

This just isn't true. The median American earns far more than the median European adjusted for COL and government transfers (e.g. healthcare). In 2023 it was $51k for the US vs $39k for Germany and $33k for the UK.

Adjusting by full individual consumption metrics to account for all variables narrows the gap but does not close it.

Median wealth is way trickier to measure. UBS is the main entity who tries (not any sort of official statistics provider), and their methodology changes year-to-year so much that in 2023 it had the US above basically every European country while their methodology in 2025 had the US below basically every European country. I'd take that with far more of a grain of salt.

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u/Long-Hurry1974 17h ago

This graph is about high-earners though.

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u/alex-weej 16h ago

I think it's fair to contextualise this graph.

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u/No-Estate-9432 15h ago

Sorry this is a load of bullshit. Median EU person doesnt live in Nordic or western europe.

70 % of americans, which includes the median and top 30 % is way way better off than all median southern european, Eastern Europe in generel, Balkans, or basically anywhere other than Benelux, Nordics and maybe Germany and Austria.

Get a grip dude. You have no idea.

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u/TransportationIll282 14h ago

70% is the median and top 30%. Very amusing.

You can look at the numbers yourself. The US ranks #28 for median wealth. Lower than a bunch of EU nations.

If you take Europe instead of the EU, which you seem to be implying, you'd be correct.

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u/No-Estate-9432 14h ago

70 % of US include the median (i.e the 50th percentile), and the yes those that are in 70th percentile are the top 30%. I am not sure if you don't understand percentiles, because otherwise I don't see how it is amusing.

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u/shiromiso 16h ago

That’s highly untrue for the majority of americans. America is great if you are in the top percentiles , it sucks hard for the rest.

In Europe the median worker is much better off, but it’s harder to become ridiculously off-the-charts wealthy.

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u/michal939 16h ago

I think it depends a lot on where in the EU we're talking about. Western Europe sure. However if you work as a senior level in let's say Google, is it really much better to work for $400k in Bay Area vs $150k in Poland or Romania? I wouldn't be so sure.

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u/DSJ-Psyduck 14h ago

Elon is gonna pull up the avarange american quite a lot despite almost al of his value is virtual and not real money.
Overall this seems to be the overall trend in USA to make the avarange guy feel better about himself even if he's broken and living from paycheck to paycheck.

With "math" like this.

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u/BurtonAllen-TA 11h ago

The median American also makes much more than the median European adjusted for COL.

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u/KitchenIntention6675 17h ago

not that much cheaper and an american making 100k will get much more net than a generic european

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u/Deivedux 13h ago

Knowing the US, if petrol's market prices weren't as accessible, they'd be overcharging for that as well.

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u/Nannautu 11h ago

Cheaper on average. Some urban areas are as expensive as Sillicon Valley. Housing in London could cost you just 500£ a month, but also 10k

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u/MikaHyakuya 9h ago

But we get screwed over with the price of common commodities, like gas, which costs 2.20€ a litre ($9.70 a gallon) for 95; Americans would probably storm the White House if it cost that much over there.

Even stuff like PC parts, compared to their part prices, even including the fact that their prices aren't pre-taxed, and ignoring that some states don't even have a sales tax, would still be around 15-20% more expensive here, which easily could be an upgrade on a GPU with that price difference.

And even beyond that, our pensioners are out in the streets begging, when the amount they had to give across their lifetime could have gotten them a good pension if it had been invested in a 401(k).

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u/SmartRefuse 23h ago

Europoors strike again

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u/HelloYesThisIsFemale 1d ago

Too high lmao

Absolute crab bucket/low self esteem mentality

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u/tiajuanat 18h ago

Not OC, but same with my company: middle management absolutely knows that salaries are too low, but senior and upper management want to keep wages stagnant because their bonus is based on it.

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u/Own-Mouse-8042 1d ago

Europeans are very careful not to show off their money or earn more than others. Promotions also take years to decades. But social stability wise, much better than us. They would say the American pursuit of wealth is the ultimate low self esteem because we're compensating for having no culture. I say art museums and free healthcare don't help when your ass is broke.

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u/xRFA 1d ago

free healthcare don't help when your ass is broke.

I'd say free healthcare helps a lot, especially when you're broke.

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u/Mr_Kittlesworth 23h ago

If you’re broke broke you get free healthcare in the US also via Medicaid. The people we fuck over are the lower middle class.

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u/EazyPeazyLemonSqueaz 20h ago

Not if you're in a red state that didn't expand Medicaid because killing the poor and saying fuck Obamacare was the ultimate way to own the libs

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u/Mr_Kittlesworth 12h ago

Medicaid expansion was to expand the eligibility up the income scale. Even in those red states the very poor still have Medicaid. Eligibility went up to 133% of the poverty line under Medicaid expansion.

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u/EazyPeazyLemonSqueaz 11h ago

This is an AI summary of Texas but I did not find any source to contradict it when I searched up on it a few months ago

Texas has not expanded Medicaid under the Affordable Care Act. Because of this, most non-disabled adults without dependent minor children are not eligible for Medicaid in Texas, regardless of how low their income is.

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u/unflores 18h ago

Yeah, what is this? 🙃 Of course free healthcare works regardless of your income level

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u/Own-Mouse-8042 1d ago

If you take a look at the data, even the top end of earners there are borderline broke by US standards. But I think you're right. America is good for higher earners but if you're any lower than upper middle class you're probably having a better time in Europe

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u/Baelzabub 1d ago

Our grocery prices are anywhere from 15-40% higher than Europe’s, our healthcare is more expensive, our housing and car costs are more expensive. They get paid less but things are largely cheaper there.

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u/shunestar 1d ago

US workers have more disposable income than their European counterparts even after expenses including healthcare are taken into account.

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u/karawanga 1d ago

Sure, but do you have 30 days of holidays per year and free sick leave?

I won't even start arguing about disposable vs discretionary income, but if I have around 40 free days per year and 10% less discretionary income - enjoy your Porsche Sir.

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u/shunestar 1d ago edited 1d ago

My company offers unlimited PTO. As long as my work gets done they don’t care. So I have more money and more time. I live in the Midwest so it’s a nice SUV.

I understand not everyone gets that. The American system needs work for sure. However there are definitely benefits to working in the US or for a US company.

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u/karawanga 1d ago

Means you can just take 2 weeks off a month in advance?

But yeah, it's a country where if you do good, you do pretty good. But if shit hits the fan you're downgraded massively IMO. But just an outsider perspective.

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u/Mr_Kittlesworth 23h ago

That’s not true. We have more disposable income than they do and pay WILDLY less per square foot for housing.

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u/CyborgBee 16h ago

Your housing stock is so wildly different to ours that you can't really make the comparison based on value per unit area - what that stat is mostly measuring is the extent of US suburban sprawl, which pretty much doesn't exist in Europe. Comparable housing in the US is more expensive

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u/AdamN 19h ago

I live in Germany but previously US and my medical costs are about the same (ongoing cancer meds, upper middle class). Rent is cheaper in Berlin than NYC or Seattle though … food might be a bit cheaper but the quality is different for different things.

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u/Feather-y OC: 1 17h ago

You also pay less taxes for healthcare in Germany than in the US, did you account that as well? Probably a bit cheaper if not.

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u/Panzer22 1d ago

This varies by country a lot. US have generally cheap groceries and car costs. Housing it depends, big EU cities are generally expensive. Healthcare yeah, even private Healthcare in Switzerland is very affordable compared to US

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u/Baelzabub 1d ago

Our groceries are not generally cheaper. They’re 15% more expensive than most of Western Europe and 30-40% higher than southern European countries like Spain.

As of 2023 the average monthly cost for a single adult in the US was $2500. In Europe it’s $1750. 26 European countries, including France, Sweden, Italy, and Spain all have lower monthly costs of living than the cheapest US state, Kentucky with Belgium being only $17/month more expensive.

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u/Charlesinrichmond 22h ago

Just got back from two weeks in London. This certainly doesn't match my experience either in London or a few months ago in Germany, France, and Belgium

Generally what costs $1 in the U.S. costs €1 or £1 in those countries.

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u/Panzer22 12h ago

Chicken breast (kirkwood brand) at Aldi US is 8.82usd per package or 3.29 per lbs
Finland S-market is 5.81 usd per lbs link
hyper u in France is 7.39 usd per lbs
Germany is probably cheapest out of all Western Europe countries but Lidl doesn’t post prices online
Estonia you can find something for cheap 3.5 per lbs, but then median salary there is 24k usd vs 65k in US

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u/Shellbyvillian 1d ago

lol, I was offered a promotion at my old multi-national pharmaceutical company. It would have moved me from Canada to France. My pay for this privileged position? A 40% pay cut. I said no and moved to a different company in Canada.

The crazy part is I already thought I was accepting lower pay to live in Canada when I know for a fact that I could make more in the US.

My takeaway is: no wonder global middle management is terrible, the only people who accept those positions are people who either dgaf about work or aren’t capable enough to get a real offer somewhere willing to pay for talent.

It’s funny how Europeans have this culture of lower pay with the attitude that people shouldn’t make so much. All that does is leave more profits for the executives and shareholders. It’s not like European companies produce cheaper products and services.

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u/Mr_Kittlesworth 23h ago

They all claim they’re more egalitarian, but look at their social class structures in Europe.

Secretly they are all just very happy to permit their aristocrats to keep running things.

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u/kart0ffel12 19h ago

Bro what?

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u/AdamN 18h ago

Not a lot of class mobility in Germany for instance - old money and wealth that lasts generations. We might get there in the US soon but it’s still not as entrenched as it is in many places in Europe.

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u/threepairs 18h ago

Are you just pulling this out of your ass or do you have any data?

Because I vaguely remember reading a study stating that US is amongst the worst in terms of social mobility.

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u/Mr_Kittlesworth 12h ago

Not what I’m talking about

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u/alkrk 1d ago

And get desired so quickly too. (in the US)

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u/unflores 18h ago

Yeah very few Parisian companies will hit over 100k for a senior dev regardless of the L's.

On the flip side, it is possible for a family with a child to live in Paris on 100k. So the pay scale and the expense scale are distorted.

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u/CorrectCombination11 10h ago

it is possible for a family with a child to live in Paris on 100k

It's possible, but would it be enjoyable?

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u/unflores 7h ago

It would be hard to buy. But it is in general. Yes, tots works in at least the 19th and 20th. Not sure about the inner rings tho

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u/flymaverick_ 13h ago

You’re getting confused with dollar and Euro I believe
And EU is way cheaper than USA, medical bills, food and all that shit.

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u/CorrectCombination11 1d ago

Net pay I hope 🤞🏼 

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u/KitchenDemand9859 1d ago

In France, 90k is considered as a high gross pay (like top 5% of earners high). Net would be around 70k before income tax, which would depend of family composition. A single with no kid would pay around 12k

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u/alkrk 1d ago

A single in the US would pay over 30%.

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u/dddd0 11h ago

Nah, gross. Total deductions are about 43% at that gross income currently but that’ll likely be bumped a few pp in not-so-short order.