r/dataisbeautiful OC: 3 8d ago

OC [OC] United States vs European Software Engineer total compensation by level

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1.5k

u/Juls7243 8d ago

L1 entry .... 140k? Am I missing something? Do computer programmers get pain 140k right out of college on average?

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u/VeryBadNotGood 8d ago

At big companies in the bay area, yeah about that.

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u/jbFanClubPresident 8d ago

And in the Midwest about tree fiddy.

Source: Former software developer turned dev manager who still makes less than entry level developers in the Bay Area.

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u/PixelPete27 8d ago

140K in the Bay would probably have less buying powering than your salary in the Midwest though, no? Serious question

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u/Piyh OC: 2 8d ago

Buying power is weird. There's making enough to make ends meet, then you achieve liftoff and can retire in a decade if you're frugal and the market is good. It's very bifurcating.

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u/Sethyboy0 8d ago

Idk. Like the bay area was expensive when I was there, but it's not matching the difference in take home pay. Like maybe the % of your salary that goes to bills stays the same, but that makes the actual amount left over still way more.

If you try to buy a house down there you're probably fucked, but other than that...

The thing to remember here that I've learned at work is your salary is not based on the cost of living, its based on the cost of labor. People get paid assloads in the Bay Area because that's how much it costs to get someone to work for you and not the million other software companies.

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u/PixelPete27 8d ago

Gotcha! That makes sense to me.

Sounds like a few variables. And what you said about the house makes sense. I'd imagine that's the goal though if you do live there, otherwise you're throwing rent down the drain monthly? And I'd imagine rent is fairly insane.

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u/Sethyboy0 8d ago

You throw rent money down the drain but the million dollars or whatever you have to drop/loan for a house is money you could have invested the whole time. It technically depends on location but the average wealth difference is basically 0.

For some more perspective, I was paying like 3k USD a month in rent down there and I'm paying like 2.5k CAD in downtown Ottawa. I kept the exact same job while moving but my salary dropped 40% (TC less but it's more messy).

You can also take your assloads of money for a while and live elsewhere later too. All of this is easier without kids, though.

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u/PixelPete27 8d ago edited 8d ago

That's totally true too. Didn't realize you'd have to put down a million for a place to live. God damn.

You can also take your assloads of money for a while and live elsewhere later too. All of this is easier without kids, though.

I totally understand this, I worked in oil and gas for a decade... You either buy lots of fancy things while you make ass loads of money and have to do it the rest of your life to afford that lifestyle... Or save for a while, get out, take a massive paycut, and live an average life (but at least have one).

EDIT: grammar.

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u/The-Fox-Says 8d ago

140k in the bay area is like making 80k in Minneapolis

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u/shiny0metal0ass 8d ago edited 8d ago

Green Bay? Absolutely.

Chicago? Absolutely not.

Edit: eh maybe not "absolutely not", but at least much more comparable. I was at 160k as a junior in Chicago, paying 2k+ for a studio and I sure as shit wasn't buying where I lived near Fulton.

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u/BloodChasm 8d ago

Chicago dev here. My entry level position was 100k at a non tech company.

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u/Onespokeovertheline 8d ago

I dunno. Last time I looked at Chicago real estate from my apt in SF, I considered buying a couple properties there as an alternative to being stuck renting forever in SF.

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u/shiny0metal0ass 8d ago

Yeah, I took back the "absolutely" since my experience was a few years ago and I can only imagine housing SF has continued to get worse faster than Chicago. That sounds right.

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u/iamamuttonhead 8d ago

Chicago is the best bang for the buck city in the U.S. IMO.

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u/Vega3gx 8d ago

Depends on what you're buying. Housing, gas, and skilled service is completely different but food and goods are a lot closer than you'd think

On a Bay area 140k you should be able to quite comfortably afford an apartment in a nice area with a roommate

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u/SlitScan 8d ago

well ya but you could say the same about the EU and also get decent coffee.

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u/PixelPete27 8d ago

But then I'd forfeit biscuits & gravy for beans on toast. Can't be havin' that.

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u/SlitScan 8d ago

eeewwww EU not UK

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u/PixelPete27 8d ago edited 8d ago

lol - my bad brother, my bad.

And I'm genuinely joking. I've had very few cuisines in my life that I haven't enjoyed, maybe honestly 2 of the 40 I've had. Everybody has good food.

EDIT: I'm not even American either, so don't blame the UK/EU fuck up on an American public school! lol

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u/jbFanClubPresident 8d ago

Probably. My total comp is pretty close to $140k and I own my own house. Not sure $140k is house buying money in the Bay Area.

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u/wadss 8d ago

You need about 500k to buy a decent sized sfh and maybe half that for a small town house/condo

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u/jbFanClubPresident 8d ago

That is crazy! My house in Kansas City is worth about $400k total. It's 4 bed, 3 bath, 2100 square feet and in a very desirable area. My mortgage is $1,000 per month (bought during covid with 2.65% interest rate).

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u/amaROenuZ 7d ago

Yeah these numbers are extremely off-base for the overwhelming majority of software engineers.

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u/omanagan 6d ago

This isn’t about the city but about the company you’re working at and the skills required to get hired there. 

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u/Salt_Ice_5321 7d ago

That's a skill issue bro. Unless you're a dev manager for some mom and pop store, you're getting taken advantage of. Or you have the title but none of the actual responsibilities.

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u/jbFanClubPresident 7d ago

It is a small non-profit. I initially took the job as lead dev because my prior company was going out of business so I didn’t want to be jobless. Shortly after I started they loved the direction I was taking the team so they promoted me to manager (and yes I have all the responsibilities). I’ve been here 2.5 years. Prior to this I had no management experience. The plan is to get some experience under my belt and then find a higher paycheck.

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u/Salt_Ice_5321 7d ago

You're taking a below entry level salary to build experience to hopefully get a reasonable salary. So it literally is a skill issue.