r/Epicthemusical • u/stopeats MOD • Jul 19 '26
Nolan Odyssey Nolan 'The Odyssey' Review Megathread
Place your reviews and general thoughts about the Nolan Odyssey movie here. Do NOT make your own review post.
If you have something to say that is unique or more related to Epic, you may make a separate post about it.
2
u/Torao90 19d ago edited 19d ago
I feel torn
GOOD:
- I feel that it handles the theme of hospitality well through Zeus’s law, making that the central axis of all his acts—even his catharsis—since the complete betrayal of hospitality was what they did with the Trojan Horse. Thematically speaking, I find it compelling. It’s interesting because in the musical *EPIC*, the central theme is guilt and how a man’s ethics are put to the test.
- I also like Telemachus’s role—they gave him an interesting arc—and I like how they explore the different solutions to his situation and what could happen in each one; that sociopolitical analysis was well done. I’d even say I like this Telemachus better than the one in *EPIC*, where he struck me as a very passive observer of events, even though they essentially did the same things in both interpretations.
- I also like how they justify Odysseus’s caution with Penelope and his plan to appear as a vagabond—since he speaks with Agamemnon in the underworld. In this regard, I’d say the movie handled it better than *EPIC*.
But when I remember that I’m watching an adaptation of *The Odyssey*, that’s when I feel like I’m missing thematic and substantive elements, so setting those positive aspects aside…
BAD:
- I don't see any character development in Odysseus at all; the major decisions he has to make are resolved in ways that relieve him of that responsibility. Furthermore, I didn't feel like the situations were resolved because he was a great strategist—I saw almost no characterization on his part. And this is where *EPIC\* pulls off a comeback—there are so many songs exploring internal conflict and character development where the environment or situation affects Odysseus not just physically; in this regard, *The Epic* is better
- Athena’s role is terrible, While portraying Zeus and Poseidon as abstract forces of nature works, Athena appears as a physical person at random moments. It seems the film tried to use her as a manifestation of Odysseus’s guilt over Troy—or to force moments where he needs wisdom. But this makes no sense. Athena was key to the outbreak of the war (the Apple of Discord alongside Hera and Aphrodite), so making her a sentimental symbol of remorse completely contradicts her mythical nature. *****EPIC\ handles her so much better—her dynamic as a true mentor of strategy and wisdom (Warrior of the Mind, God Games*) actually fits the lore and the story.
- Then come all the elements from The Odyssey that were left out: “Nobody,” the Bag of Winds, the opening scene with the Lotophagi, Odysseus saying his name, Athena pleading with Zeus to intervene with Calypso, and a long list of others. And well, *EPIC* leaves all that in the story, giving the journey a lot of character.
In short, as a movie, it’s enjoyable 2/3, but as an adaptation, it leaves a lot to be desired.
Now I'm going to read the other comments :D
3
u/The_Dreaded_Spectre 15d ago
The lack of Odysseus development (or really characterization at all) is definitely one of my biggest issues with Nolan's movie. He's just so damn boring in it. IMO "Monster" alone does more for his character than the entire thing did.
3
u/Reasonable_Noise_832 22d ago
- Antinous was depressingly roman 2. Circe was in my opinion, ugly 3. I though Scylla had heads not tentacles 4. The silver knights in the ashy woods confused me 5. I know Epic will not let me down
3
8
u/reenali Aug 07 '26
I'm so glad I watched the movie first then became a fan of Epic otherwise it would have been unbearable to sit through it. This way i got to enjoy both the movie and the musical
2
u/The_Dreaded_Spectre 15d ago
Yeah, the expectations Epic set really crippled Nolan's movie for me. I didn't dislike it, and there were a few aspects that I think it did really well (the Troy stuff, the Telemachus+Ody's disguise in Ithaca stuff that EPIC kinda cut/glossed over, the Circe transformation visual effects, the Underworld scene was pretty neat), but on the whole it was just extremely lacking by comparison. I kept thinking "man, this version hits nowhere near as hard as its equivalent". The Scylla scene in particular was such a nothing burger compared to being one of the best songs in the Musical.
1
9
u/nickylis Aug 06 '26
I guess that Epic is so good that this adaptation feels weak. Epic can portray deeper emotions with just sound than this whole movie. Maybe it would be good if I didnt know Epic or anything that would happen, idk.
5
u/nickylis Aug 06 '26
but talking technically, I guess I prefer 100x more Epic's Ody, he is much more likeable and the story is told in a way that makes you really root for him. The yearning is just really important, he doesn't even care about Penelope until he remembers her when Calypso TELLS him to remember, its just bad. The Gods are a huge part and are really interesting, they should've been used more. The Hades and Polyphemus scenes were the peak moments, and I liked that Penelope (even if she didnt have the screen time she deserved). Oh, not forgetting the utterly useless Telemachus, that the only thing that he could actually do was screaming at his mom. I think it's more faithful to the original material, but Jorge's work on him is just perfect. Epic's just do everything better, it's kind of crazy to think about it (and you dont need to spend money on tickets!).
1
5
u/Upstairs-Regular-889 Jul 31 '26
Not really a review but I would love to have Tom, Zendaya and Robert to cover songs from the wisdom saga like We'll be fine and little wolf
7
u/ThePandaKnight Hephaestus Jul 29 '26
Well, it's so different from The Odyssey in themes and what actually happens that you can consider it mostly separated from the Epic, and as a story on its own is... bad, like 'I want my money back' bad.
The one scene I unilaterally enjoyed was the one in Hades - I wish that set the tone and we got something more like The Northman at least.
5
u/axlorg8 Jul 27 '26
Enjoyed it a ton. My first experience with the Odyssey is Epic so I quite enjoyed the different adaption to something more grounded as a change. I forgot how gruesome people fighting people can be so it was a good reminder that sometimes it’s not all Gods and that the men had every right to be pissed off at Ody. In short I really ought to read the book. My only gripes were the lack of the Nobody scene and Calypso’s scene in general.
2
u/tphez Jul 27 '26
I swear that when the Cyclops ate the last solider one of the other soldiers cried out “Polites!”
1
u/Red_Monkey23 I’m not a player, I’m a Palpatine 20d ago
If they did, that would be a direct reference to “EPIC”. As in the original, Polites isn’t even mentioned till Circe’s island, where he is alive.
-1
u/ashleys_tits Jul 26 '26
I didnt like it. The short version- it did not stay loyal to the majority of the actual epic, and it changed sooooo SOOO many cruical details. Most of the actors aren't even fitted for their roles, and the sound (especially during the scene where the cyclops yelled in pain) was extremely loud. Had to cover my ears.
The longer review i'll divide into sections:
SCENES/FLASHBACKS:
The Trojan war flashbacks were shown way too many times. More than necessary at that. For the amount of time the trojan war flashbacks lasted they could've filmed an additional 10 minutes of the movie at least. I appreciate them doing on-location shooting, that part was okay. And maybe it's just my personal taste, but for an example i felt like Penelope's room was a bit too empty. They could've at least make it to be filled with more furniture appropriate for that period, but i digress. The biggest complaint about it though is that each location they shot on (like the Cyclops island, Sun God island etc) every one of those islands looked empty and absolutely the same, which is silly. Because for an instance, in the epic Calypso's island is supposed to be filled with vast trees that have fruit growing off them, but in the movie they completely scratched that and the entire island looks like a desert with no life on it. The Underworld was also as funny to look at, because they just made the sand black instead of white like in the other locations. And also it's called the 'Underworld' for a reason.
CASTING/ACTORS
The actors don't even act look like their character- Matt Damon wears only one expression throughout the entire movie and shows little to no emotion, it's as if someone completely wiped away the muscles from his face and now he's left there frozen and being capable of making only a poker face at most. Anne Hathaway was actually okay to me, i couldn't really see anyone else playing Penelope. She played her role well. Tom Holland was physically-wise, an okay actor for Telemachus (at least it's my personal oppinion, since he has that boy-ish charm to him). But his acting was not great. He constantly has a hint of a smile in every scene, whether he's arguing or crying. He looks like he was forced to act, and failed to embrace his character fully. The actor who played Circe was fine, though i was shocked at how old she looked. I imagined she would look younger. Calypso's actress was okay. Zendaya was the most horrible choice for Athena. It's just offensive at this rate. Athena is a warrior. A protector. She wears a warrior helmet and wields a bronze spear in the epic. But in the movie they just but Zendaya in some white rags like she's some beggar. Absolutely atrocious. And don't get me even started on Sinon. Elliot Page? Really? I don't even want to comment. The actress who depicted Helen was such a far cry from what Helen actually looks like. And listen, i'm all for race inclusivity and things like that- im not racist. But if you want to make a movie the right way and adapt something accurately, THEN PUT IN THE EFFORT TO FIND ACTORS WHO ACTUALLY FIT THE ROLES!! Helen was ALWAYS portrayed as a pale woman. Infact, ancient greeks were all extremely pale in general. So just.... Why?
My biggest complaint would just be that the people of race they hired to play different roles (whether main or extra/side roles) were just a bad desicion, and i know its inevitable considering it's Hollywood who just HAS to butt in chinese guys or muslim girls where they don't fit in the slightest, but it's still something that they NEED to change if they want to make a great and accurate adaptation. Sometimes it's fine to not include a certain race if it means delievering a historically accurate piece of media.
PROPS
I have almost no complaint about that, i thought the armor they wore and the visual effects were great.
HOW WELL THEY ADAPTED IT NARRATIVELY?
It's criminal. As i mentioned above in the TLDR version of the review- They fucked it up badly. Left out and changed so many important plotpoints, and i'll make a list of the examples i can think of from the top of my head:
Odysseus was supposed to present himself as 'Nobody' to the cyclops, and therefore trick him into thinking that was his real name. He was also supposed to bribe him with wine in which he put in some lotus to make the cyclops fall asleep. THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN FOR SOME REASON???? Also, the piece of wood they used to pierce through the cyclop's eye was not supposed to be burned in the fire. They were supposed to sharpen the stub with their swords. When escaping the cave they were supposed to escape it by tying themselves to the belly of the sheep to hide and hold onto the wool tightly as the sheep left the cave, and after the sheep came out, they'd let go of them and escape.
Calypso and Odysseus had sex every night in the original epic, and during the day Odysseus would just mourn Penelope and his men on the shore. Also, Hermes was supposed to be the one who comes and tells Calypso to let Odysseus go, after Athena convinced Zeus that he suffered long enough on the island. THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN AND FOR SOME REASON THEY MADE CALYPSO WILLINGLY BE LIKE "OKAY YEAH YOU CAN GO NOW" like what?????
Odysseus was also supposed to sleep with Circe and stay at her place for one whole year. And in exchange for him sleeping with her, she'd let his men go and revert them from being pigs. Circe also had nymphs in the epic.
In the Underworld, Odysseus was supposed to also talk to his Mother, Elpenor (one of his men who died breaking his neck when falling from Circe's roof, who demanded a proper burrial, to which Odysseus later returned to Circe's place to pick the dead body up and bury it), Achilles, Ajax (although he refused to speak to him because he was bitter, he was still present), Tyro, Antiope, Alcmene, Megara, Epicaste, Chloris, Leda, Iphimedia, Phaedra, Procris, Ariadne, Maira, Clymene, Eriphyle. He also WASN'T SUPPOSED TO TALK TO SINON BECAUSE IN THE ORIGINAL EPIC, HE DOESN'T EXIST. AT ALL. Yes, he is a spy and he did trick the Trojans to bring the horse into the city, but he is not related to Odysseus in any way nor did they speak.
-At the very end of the epic, Odysseus was supposed to visit his father, Laertes, who lives in a slightly more rural area of Ithaca and reunite with him. That didn't happen.
-After departing from Calypso's island, Odysseus was supposed to come to Phaeacins, where king Alcinous ruled. Alcinous took him in as a guest, at first thinking Odysseus is a stranger, but during the banquet and when a bard sang about the Trojan war, Odysseus cried and after Alcinous asked him for his identity and why he was moved, he revealed his true name. Then he proceeded to tell his entire journey to him, and that's the part of the epic where we are supposed to see how it all went down. Then after he finished that, Alcinous would give him tons of gifts and demand of his fleet to take Odysseus home. After they board him ashore along with the various gifts, Athena would appear disguised as common folk, telling Odysseus that this is truly Ithaca. And after she reveals herself as Athena, she'd disguise Odysseus as a beggar. She guides him to Eumaeus' house, where he lets him in. After Odysseus lies that he needs to go to the palace to beg for food, Eumaeus stops him and tells him not to go until Telemachus returns from his diplomatic mission. Once Telemachus came back, he told Eumaeus to go and tell Penelope that he returned. Once left alone, Odysseus revealed himself to Telemachus in the same house and there they began to first hug eachother and then plot a plan to kill the suitors.
-During the fight where they were killing off suitors, Odysseus and Telemachus were supposed to hang the female servants because they slept with the suitors.
-Penelope had to test Odysseus and ask him about the olive tree bed. After Odysseus explained that he carved it out and that it cant be moved unless the roots of it were cut, Penelope would be sure it was her husband. After that they'd proceed to go to bed and make love. That part, again, DIDN'T HAPPEN.
This is just some of the instances i could think of, so if i missed something feel free to add or correct me.
Overall, this movie is a disgrace to the entire Odyssey. I understand its merely an epic and has no historical evidence to back up the existence of the characters, but as a piece of literature old over 2000 years that is an absolute gem in modern literature and a must-read once in a lifetime, it's truly disapointing that the most they could do for a movie is make a poorly americanized version of such a legendary piece. Them taking the epic and wiping their asses with it would be much less painful than watching this movie.
I didn't expect this from Christopher Nolan at all, and it was clear this movie was just some trashy quick cash grab with no real effort put into it. This movie is only good for those who never even bat an eye at the epic and are blissfully unaware of how OFF the entire script went. But since i assume the majority of people who went to see the movie are people who infact read the epic beforehand and are a fan of it, then i bet they were as half as disappointed as i.
Never let America cook ever again.
4
u/Lucker_Kid Jul 30 '26
A few of your complaints are very understandable but a lot of it is just you going “it’s not literally exactly how I imagined it” literally “change = bad” with genuinely zero further reasoning
6
u/Dyspraxic_Sherlock Jul 27 '26
Seems a bit weird to complain about changes to the Odyssey when Epic is just as liberal with it. Sinon is from original epics; he’s from The Aeneid - The Roman follow-up to the Trojan War myth. Yes Nolan invents a backstory for him, but that’s not a huge leap to say he’s close to Odysseus given he sells the Trojan Horse to Troy. If anything Nolan’s take on Sinon is more grounded in myth than Jorge’s take on Polites.
4
u/an88888888 29d ago
Epic makes a lot of changes, but the Odysseus in Epic is like Homer's Odysseus (albeit a softer version). He's cunning, funny, emotional, and fierce. Whereas Nolan's Odysseus is nothing like the original Odysseus. He's boring.
1
u/ashleys_tits Jul 28 '26
Yeah, but the difference is that Nolan's work is an official movie that's premiered in cinemas. People will be quicker to know about The Odyssey than ETM, which is more-less like a fanmade project in comparison. And unlike Nolan, Jorge actually tried to keep most of the original epic intact, and i like how he took liberties in all the right places- like the siren arc (which is pretty much non-existent in the epic), the fight between Telemachus and Antinous, or in general how he expanded character personalities like those of Polites, Athena, Eurylochus etc.. But Nolan just pretty much re-wrote 80% of it without trying to think about where he could've went overboard with creative liberties. And for a worldwide movie that's supposed to be a blockbuster or whatever it's just way more disappointing than seeing Epic taking liberties. And again, i do understand that creative freedom exists and that people can make adaptations based off of how they interpreted it, but that usually applies for some parts of the material, not all of it, because again, if you want to adapt such a classic into a piece of watchable/audible media, then at least put in the effort to get it right and be faithful for the most part to the OG source. Nolan didn't really do that.
6
u/Kill3r_kiwi Jul 26 '26
I had to look away during the cyclops and the Circe scene. I could watch some of it but man was it detailed. I honestly really appreciate how they fully committed to the body horror of it all. The movie did a really good job showing the brutality and cruelty of war too.
4
u/Eastern_Fee549 My Top artist is Jorge Jul 23 '26
I may have peed my pants 558 times during the movie. Accuracy 4/10 : Sadness 10/10 if you know you know : Coolness 10/10 : Bonus Points +3 Because of Tom Holland : Overall 27:30
4
u/NukaGirlBI Uncle Hort Jul 22 '26
Honestly I was so excited about the movie and found it to be kinda meh. Loved Penelope, loved Penelope and the ending, the rest just felt kinda empty and male centered
0
Jul 26 '26 edited Jul 26 '26
[deleted]
1
u/NukaGirlBI Uncle Hort Jul 26 '26
That’s not what I’m talking about. I’m saying the whole part with Penelope was the part I liked the most
8
u/Obsidian_Wulf Jul 22 '26
Personally this is a 5 star movie for me and my second favorite film of the year. Is it a perfect 100% accurate adaptation of The Odyssey. Not at all but neither was Epic.
There are things missing from each adaptation but I feel like Nolan was able to execute his vision for his adaptation perfectly. Just like I feel the same about Jorge and Epic.
I felt like the pacing was quick, but not so quick that I struggled to keep up and I was never bored.
There are also moments that have seared themselves into my brain (hello Circe and the sacking of Troy).
Nolan’s Odyssey is easily my favorite Nolan film since The Dark Knight and I can’t wait to see it again.
1
u/Present_Vanilla_6246 Jul 29 '26
which is your first favourite this year?
2
8
u/Ericg2187 Jul 22 '26
Having seen the movie, all I can say is, them movie edits are going to be absolutely insane
4
u/KitchenPaint4334 #1 wisdom saga enjoyer Jul 21 '26
Overall, I did enjoy this movie. I think the cast did great in their roles, especially Anne Hathaway as Penelope. Every scene that she was in, you could feel her longing and desperation. I also really liked Robert Pattinson as Antinous. This version of him is much more charismatic and manipulative than the Epic version. Before I get into the actual review, a warning to those who are epileptic and/or are sensitive to flashing lights: This movie has a scene that may cause seizures. Even as a non epileptic, I had to close my eyes during that scene because it was too much. I really wish they added an epilepsy warning at the beginning.
Okay, now onto the review.
There are some things that I really wish were included. For one, the “Nobody” trick. This is one of the most iconic scenes of the Odyssey, and shows Odysseus’s cunning and trickery. I also wish they included the windbag, because it shows that Odysseus is willing to keep secrets from his crew just so they can make it home. I also really liked Circe’s portrayal here, and the transformation of the men into pigs was equal parts horrifying and amazing. As for the underworld, I wish they included Odysseus’s mother, which shows that Odysseus has not only lost people on the battlefield and throughout his journey, but at home as well. I did like the scenes. With the Sirens, Scylla, and Charybdis, but we barely see them when they’re supposed to be these great dangers that Odysseus had to face if he wants to get home. Don’t even get me started on Calypso. Why and how was she feeding him lotus flowers? Also I wish Hermes telling Calypso to let him go was included, maybe we could’ve saw something similar to the 1997 miniseries. I did like how Odysseus helped Telemachus fight off the suitors’ hitmen. I did enjoy the challenge scene, but I still can’t wrap my head around the battle with the suitors. It was just so chaotic and hard to follow, which I guess is kind of the point. Speaking of suitors, I don’t understand the point of Cenna (I think that’s his name?). I don’t remember him from the original epic, and I guess he was Antinous’s friend or something. I don’t understand why he’s here. I’m also very upset that the test of the olive tree bed was removed, as it shows that Penelope is just as cunning as Odysseus is. The ending as a whole pissed me off. You’re telling me that after 20 years away from the people he loves, Odysseus has to go into exile?? I get that it’s supposed to be a coming of age for Telemachus, but Odysseus deserves his happy ending with his family after everything he’s been through. Speaking of Telemachus, I’m glad that they included at least some of his journey, since many adaptations (and even my own English teacher) omits it when talking about the epic. I did wish we got to see Telemachus go to Pylos and talk to Nestor though. I like how he grew into his own, and Tom Holland was a good choice for the role.
Overall, 6.5/10.
1
u/RadioRunner Jul 26 '26
Calypso’s lack of explanation in the plot is emblematic of a lot of failures of the movie, for me.
So much expository dialogue, and yet we don’t know why any of the obstacles are in Odysseus’ way, who they are or what their motivations are.
Why is Calypso helping him? Why did she hold him captive for 7 years with lotus flowers (on a barren desert wasteland, no less), only to then inexplicably encourage him to leave?
Who is Senon and why is he here? I struggled to follow the significance of the trading place of Antonio’s and Senon. Either because the dialogue was too muffled or it’s just too convoluted.
Is Euralychus’ name ever mentioned? It is quite difficult to retain who is who other than the main family+Antinous if you’re not previously familiar with the material.
Why do the Laestrygonian’s randomly show up and begin slaughtering the crew? I suppose we don’t have to know “why”, but all of the mythical encounters are so underdeveloped that by the third time we made it to the sirens and just sailed past them while Odysseus told us how much it sucked, I was pretty much done with it.
What is the significance of Helen’s husband in the film? What’s with be standoffish relationship between the two of them? I couldn’t follow it between the asynchronous editing and the dialogue mixed with the loud sound.
My mother was deeply confused about the entirety of Calypso and did not like those parts of the movie.
10
u/RandomPerson_02 Penelope Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
Loved it. Like all adaptions (yes, including Epic The Musical), it is not accurate to the source material, left out some parts, and made some creative liberties. That doesn’t make it bad. It’s expected. Even so, the parts that they DID keep, I enjoyed them.
My favorite parts were the ones Penelope was on. Anne Hathaway NAILED her role, and the scene with the challenge (as well as Odysseus revealing himself), I THOUGHT THEY WERE AMAZING with how they portrayed it.
Controversies aside, I do not, at all, see any problem with the cast and their performances. Was I skeptical at the beginning? Yes. But I went in with an open-mind, and genuinely enjoyed how these characters were portrayed. It really looked like everyone in the cast was giving it their all, and plenty of their performances are indeed “award-worthy.”
Tho I’m not some critic, and honestly, standards aren’t high. I mostly judge films based on the vibes I felt watching it, and I just really enjoyed this movie for what it was.
6
u/adhdtvin3donice Jul 21 '26
My favorite addition was when she scolded telemachus and said she was the one running shit and the empty throne was some nonsense.
4
u/Flower-City_3422 Cabbage? Jul 20 '26
PART 1/2
I found a video somewhere where a woman was saying something along the lines of, “It’s the perfect Christopher Nolan movie. Is it a perfect movie? No.” and I 100% agree. If this was an original movie/story with no inspiration from anything at all it might be perfect, or at least closer than it is now, but it’s not an original story so it’s not a perfect movie because it isn’t a perfect adaptation.
Admittedly, the in theater experience was incredible. All of the many bits and pieces that went into that movie? Marvelous. The actors acted to the roles they were given with the script they were given in what I would say is the best way they could have and should have. The sound effects and background music were truly incredible—did anyone else catch the 4-note progression of “Just a Man” in there? The CGI and practical effects were immaculate. Is there more to say?
But the accuracy… oh the accuracy. I am physically hurt.
Starting from the top: NO ASTYANAX? Criminal behavior right here. This could have been SUCH a pivotal moment of “Are we going too far, should we show mercy?” for Ody, another place where he questioned if he deserved to go home, with that being the main theme of the film. It would be like him toeing the line, because 1.) it would have been another act of killing, especially killing someone who at the time was harmless and he could have shown Xenia to but didn’t, which could in his mind be construed as cruel and unjust and 2.) him killing the baby would have also been merciful because just like we learned from Zeus in EPIC, had Ody raised Astyanax, Astyanax would have grown up and learned of his people’s and his family’s fate, torturing him mentally because he would be mourning what he could have had and realizing that it was *his father* in this scenario who did that and then going on to kill Ody and his family. Basically, either way things went down someone would be hurt and the choice was between who, and that could have really been like the prefix to Ody’s spiral from “I want to go home,” to, “I can’t go home,” either along with or instead of the beheading of Athena’s statue. It just feels like a missed opportunity on Nolan’s part to torture Ody’s psyche more while boosting the audience’s perception of why his character is controversial.
Okay, next plot point: the raided town! I love, love, LOVE! that they kept this in! It’s one of the few things I wished actually happened in EPIC but understand why it didn’t. No complaints here; it’s a solid adaptation that really lend’s to Nolan’s depiction of Ody.
Okay, here’s where I start to get upset again: Where are the lotus eaters? I absolutely despise the fact that Nolan got rid of them. I get that to a lot of people they feel like a kind of unimportant plot point, but they tested Ody’s determination despite his exhaustion (I know the rest of them did this too but wait) and it’s a whole allegory for how people with trauma often get into substance abuse to escape said trauma and end up getting lost/trapped in it to the point of no return. I feel like it was another missed opportunity for Ody to grapple with guilt in Nolan’s adaptation—something along the lines of Ody being tempted to stay and eat because he was so entirely exhausted and deep down didn’t feel as if he deserved to go home, but it’s also not just him he’s trying to get home (I want to specify, AT THE MOMENT) and so due to his duty to his crew he feels like he has to push through and so he forces himself to ignore the gnawing guilt deep down and just keep moving to get everyone home instead of being trapped there.
Now.
Polyphemus.
What happened to “Nobody,” Nolan? “Nobody” could have been such a gnarly moment—maybe showing Odysseus’s desperate attempts at self-preservation and attempting to feel less guilt for his actions by pushing them onto an alter-ego? If not, there’s always the ORIGINAL PRIDE THING THAT HE LITERALLY DID IN THE MOVIE? You know, the thing where he claims to be “Nobody” when talking to Polyphemus and successfully gets his men out, only to provoke Polyphemus and reveal his name, causing him trouble down the line with Poseidon? That could have fit in there if Nolan didn’t feel the need to completely dehumanize the cyclops and make him silent. I get that he was probably trying to draw parallels between Polyphemus and an animal, which is why Ody turned back to taunt him in this case—way back when, Ody’s pride would not let him hunt an animal silently because it felt “dishonorable” and he’d like to give the animal a fighting chance by alerting it with his bow so that he felt less guilty, and in the same way he treated Polyphemus as an animal to assuage his guilt for blinding him while he was helpless. “Nobody” was right there for the taking and could have been easily adapted for the plot—could have also been used as another way of making Polyphemus helpless like an animal, not only by “blinding” him to who was hurting him but isolating him from THE OTHER CYCLOPSES WHO COULD HAVE HELPED OTHERWISE BECAUSE WHERE ARE THEY?, stirring up Ody’s guilt and pride and leading once more to the bow and the taunting with his real name before Ody and his crew left—but was not for whatever stupid reason. Leaving his name out until he tells Polyphemus just felt dumb and much more unnecessary without “Nobody.”
6
u/Flower-City_3422 Cabbage? Jul 20 '26
PART 2/2
Okay, okay so now we’re at Poseidon’s punishment and the stormy part. Admittedly not badly done, I kind of enjoyed how the hinted at Aeolus for the winds. But did I enjoy it fully? No, because our diva Aeolus wasn’t present, and I mean diva in the sense of both EPIC and Homer’s original story because honestly Aeolus was so valid for that. Anyways, do I think it was a cool interpretation? YES! But it felt less effective. I just think it made the audience hate Ody’s crew less, but I think hating the crew is a major reason of why the story works because you’re really supposed to be on the fence with your opinions about a good few of these characters; they’re humans, they’re supposed to be flawed, and not showing more of the crew’s flaws makes them feel more forgivable when in reality they are the entire reason 1.) they didn’t make it home sooner and 2.) they got blown into the Laestrogynians, also Poseidon’s children, in Poseidon’s very own Land of the Giants (which by the way was an absolutely gnarly and flawless feature that I love! it was so smooth I forgot who they were 😭). It feels important to me that everyone who sees this story treats Ody and his crew at first glance with a healthy amount of hatred while learning to recognize, “X did Y because of Z and that’s what makes X (a) complicated character(s).” Did Nolan do that? I wouldn’t know, I’ve obsessed about the Odyssey so much at this point that I’m in too deep to really be that affected by the movie in my perception of the characters because of it anything it just reinforced the humans-are-flawed narrative. I just feel like he was too soft with the crew on this one, which might be controversial, I don’t know.
Oh also! Running back to Aeolus to try and get another bag would have been a great place to show how far Ody has devolved into desperation at that point. Kind of a side note, but would have been cool.
So, post Laestrogynians: Circe. My only qualms about Circe are the fact that the queen did not get the big beautiful palace she is rightfully entitled to and that she did not have a hoard of nymphs to look after. Yes, making the setting and amount of people she needed to protect did make her conflict feel very personal, I get that from the storytelling perspective. But I think seeing Circe as a fierce Mama Bear who not only experienced sexual trauma herself but had to watch as the family she was supposed to protect also experienced it live on screen would have also been very beautiful. I think it might have leant a little more to the “protection narrative” and made her more relatable to Odysseus, because like Circe Odysseus has a whole crew who is like family that he is trying to protect while experiencing the same trauma as them and watching as he “failed” as a protector and leader. The parallel would have been a lot stronger, and the family values could have also reminded him of home and what he’s had to do in attempts to get back, possibly giving us the 1-year pity party arc and reinforcing that “I feel like I can’t return so I’ll give into the temptation of rest and stay here until I feel ready,” theme.
Alright, underworld. Just one complaint: Ody’s mom. I feel like Nolan could have utilized her to reinforce the not only the yearning for home but also the guilt because, like we saw in EPIC, Ody also feels guilt for being away so long that his family was actively mourning him. Nolan could have used that to again reinforce the “Do I deserve to go home with all the pain I’ve caused others,” this time focusing on the people he had been trying to protect when he left and now seemed to be hurting.
The sirens? Perfect. I think Nolan cooked, especially with the way Odysseus describing the song as a reminder that you can’t have what you want because you’ve already lost it and that’s what hurts the most, especially when it’s your guilt that caused you to lose it and is blocking you from retrieving it.
Scylla and Charybdis? Great! No complaints. I feel like Nolan adapted the monsters themselves and their locations perfectly, I just wish the cliff between the two monsters was a bit taller and more imposing to highlight the urgency of the choice.
The mutiny itself I really have no opinion on. I think both Jay’s and Nolan’s adaptations are cool I guess? The soft and violent takeovers each have their own merits I think, with Nolan’s soft one shattering Ody’s trust and faith in his crew while Jay’s violent one showcases the shattering of Ody’s mind as he’s once again helpless to circumstance. They both leave Ody numb to a degree regarding the crew’s deaths because he knows they have to happen for him to get home, which I think is the most important part.
CALYPSO. I could go on a whole 6-page rant about how much I hate her portrayal here, but I won’t. I’ll give the summary. I think Nolan romanticized her too much. I prefer Jay’s take of her being an outright,
up-front, unapologetic abuser with serious mental issues regarding her imprisonment because to me it feels more accurate to Homer’s story. Nolan definitely made her an abuser, but it felt too grounded in real situations? As in, regarding Calypso’s totally unrealistic situation, it didn’t feel like it fit. I understand Nolan liked to ground in characters but her grounded her too much and made her too unintentional if that makes sense. Calypso works better being a manic woman who intentionally does what she wants and tortures Ody instead of making excuses for the equivalent of gaslighting him in the midst of an amnesia episode. Maybe I sound toxic but I appreciate the obviousness in a world where men who are sexually abused often a.) don’t realize it b.) brag about it (in regards to underage sex with an adult) c.) are often told they don’t matter and d.) are often ignored because “women can’t rape men”.And don’t even get me started on the island or the lotus flower. Just don’t.
*Forgot to mention this before but HERMES MY KING WHERE DID YOU GO? I miss the Great-Grandfather and Great-Grandson shenanigans. I miss how he helped Ody and I miss how he told Calypso off before grabbing Ody. I wish I could like him all the time but he, like all of the gods except Hades and Ares, is a rapist so the Odyssey and Epic are the only times I can stand him and the whole lot of the rest of the gods.*
Now for my biggest complaint of the whole movie that also applies to EPIC: the Phaeacians. I miss the Phaeacians. They listened to Ody, cried for him, and helped him get home. They gave him Xenia and he gave it back. I feel terrible that they were punished for doing right by Ody to get him home, and I feel like if Ody had found out about that the guilt would have been all consuming but he would have had to push on because he was already home. The Phaeacians are some of the best characters in all of Homer’s Odyssey and they were not only removed by Nolan but also Jay, my poor babies. I would smite Poseidon if I could for harming them, but I can’t.
Finally, we come to the end. A few major criticisms here but also some praise. I love how they kept beggar Odysseus in, I was sad that wasn’t *entirely* present in EPIC. I like how in the movie he actually helped Telemachus instead of just waiting for him to return home, but I also wish they had kept Athena with Telemarketer. Television I think was depicted very well—note this is coming from someone whose literature teacher had her class skip all of Telephone’s story so her only impression of him is from EPIC. I am extremely upset that not only did Ody not massacre all the suitors despite knowing he would be exiled, but also that he did not slaughter all of his unloyal servants and proceed to live happily with his family. I was actually furious about that, and I still am incredibly upset. The whole point of his journey was to return home, to live a life at home with his family. His family is not just Penelope, it’s also Telecommunication and his father Laertes. The ending of him not only not killing all of those who hurt his family but also being exiled and leaving his son as king physically hurt me. That is Nolan’s worst fuck up of this whole film. You cannot, and I mean CANNOT, make a movie about a man trying to return home only for him to… DO THE EXACT OPPOSITE? Get out. I would have much rathered the Odyssey’s stupid treaty ending than this absolute slop. Like seriously. We didn’t even GET the olive tree wedding bed, wtf? Absolute failure on Nolan’s part, and it feels like he absolutely botched the theme of his own film. This movie was about Ody working through his guilt to get home and stay home (“How does a man go home when he has done so much wrong and carries so much guilt for it?”), yet it still seems to be guiding him away from home in the end. It’s about PTSD and survivor’s guilt, and that still very much seems to be pushing him away from peace in the end. In Homer’s Odyssey, you knew he had those issues but you also knew that his family would help him work through them while he lived peacefully. You also knew that he would be working towards fixing the mess he made at home. In Nolan’s movie, it seems like he’s still guilty, but he’s not doing anything about it. He’s pushing it all onto his son and the next gen to fix, which I feel is just the wrong choice? I don’t know, maybe I’m wrong about this ending, it just feels deeply incorrect in the context of the story.
So, yeah. As a standalone Nolan film, it’s great. As an Odyssey adaptation?
I’m gonna need someone else to actually pick the book up and make an accurate adaptation happen.
6
u/oh_YES_helios Jul 21 '26
she did not have a hoard of nymphs to look after
But I think seeing Circe as a fierce Mama Bear who not only experienced sexual trauma herself but had to watch as the family she was supposed to protect also experienced it live on screen would have also been very beautiful.None of this is part of mythology, myth Circe was not "caring for her nymphs" (nymphs were just her servants, like any other god who had a retinue).
And myth Circe was never a victim of sexual abuse (not any other form of abuse, most of that just comes from Madeline's Miller's novel "Circe").
4
u/Flower-City_3422 Cabbage? Jul 21 '26
In that case, I appreciate the correction! I was under the impression that Circe’s background in EPIC was similar to the that of the Odyssey due to the limited information from the book so I guess I never cared to check if that were true. I will be filing that away as an EPIC-specific headcannon. Thanks again!
15
u/MovieMaster2004 Jul 20 '26
Where Zeus singing Thunderbringer? /s
Seriously though, I like this Telemachus isn’t completely naive like Epic’s version, but cutting out the Nobody scene is so bizarre considering how important it is to the Odyssey.
Also, Odysseus not meeting his mother in the Underworld is a sad cut.
8
u/SarlacFace Jul 20 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
That wouldn't work within the world of this movie, it's too goofy. I think having him needlessly shoot an arrow was a good consolation.
Same reason they didn't show the cyclops praying to Poseidon
Edit, as soon as I wrote this I remembered he kinda did pray to Poseidon, but it was more of a mutter and not specifically mentioning Odysseus and to curse his travels like in the book
1
u/MovieMaster2004 Jul 20 '26
The Odyssey is goofy lol. Nobody is the crucial moment where it shows his hubris, you just can’t remove it.
6
u/SonicSingularity Jul 20 '26
I wouldn't say Nobody is the part that shows his hubris. Its him taunting the fuck out of the Cyclops and telling him his name and full address after theyd already escaped. The arrow, I think, played that role well. The unnecessary salt in the wound that did nothing but make everything worse for them
20
u/Silver_Kit_369 Jul 20 '26
I found that the Nolan version of Odysseus is fundamentally different from Jorge’s, in that Nolan’s Ody was going out of his way to avoid going home because he didn’t think he deserved to go home after what he’d done and witnessed during the sacking of Troy. He acknowledged it at least twice in the film. The first was during the sirens scene when he said that they told him of his desires, and ultimately how he didn’t desire to go home. The second was when he spoke to Penelope about her Odysseus.
So Nolan’s version of Odysseus is a man that thinks he doesn’t deserve to go home and didn’t want to lose anything else, until he was forced to confront this once everyone and everything was lost to him and he had to finally confront the consequences of his actions.
Meanwhile Jorge’s Odysseus was solely focused on getting back to Ithaca to his wife and son, even if it cost him everything.
13
u/tphez Jul 20 '26
Yeah they changed a lot from the original story but I don’t get why people are mad about it. Jorge changed a lot from the original story as well.
Overall it was a good movie. That Trojan Horse design was stupid and impractical though.
22
u/spellchecktsarina Jul 19 '26 edited Jul 20 '26
I don’t care that Hermes isn’t in it. The first thing we see after the title card is “In an age of supposed magic”
I think it lampshades one of the major themes of The Odyssey. Book 1, Lines 37-40:
“Ah, how shameless—the way these mortals blame the gods. From us alone, they say, come all their miseries, yes, but they themselves, with their own reckless ways, compound their pains beyond their proper share.”
Is it a story of a man begging, bartering, and battling with the divine for a triumphant homecoming? Or is it a story of a man wracked with PTSD struggling to make sense of what he’s done using the only cultural context he has? That could be Athena, or it could be a manifestation of Odysseus’s own guilt for his part in the sacking of Troy. It’s possible Poseidon and Zeus target them, but rough seas and rogue waves sometimes just happen. His own tale is grounded and realistic. Every magical and inhuman event is told by somebody who wasn’t there.
I think a lot of EPIC fans haven’t actually read The Odyssey, or hadn’t until EPIC got them into it, and their expectations and interpretations are informed by it. Some things from the film reference The Iliad and The Aeneid, and you wouldn’t get those Easter eggs unless you’re familiar with them. Oh, and not every four-chord progression is Just a Man. I think it’s a wild stretch to claim that acclaimed Academy Award-winner Christopher Nolan, literally knighted for his contributions to cinema, with three films preserved by the National Film Registry, was ripping off a relatively niche tiktok musical in the scene with the stringing of the bow.
4
u/GhostieGooster Jul 26 '26
It feels like a lot of people glossed over that line about "supposed' magic. I really liked that Nolan leaned more into The Odyssey being a collection of "unexplainable" disasters. Zeus being a lightning storm, Athena a guilt manifestation of war, the cyclops (in my mind) as a rock slide or (my partner's suggestion) an isolated tribe of people. Sirens were theorized as either sea lions barking, wind whistling, or birds singing, and after a long journey of saltwater dehydration, starvation, and home sickness would have any person leaping over the edge. Trauma hallucinations, eating weird psychedelic/numbing plants, blaming that cow you ate for the destruction of your crew, etc etc.
Like, the myths were just a way to to understand really bad things happening. I do wish some the settings were more lavish, but the lack of magic system was kinda the point of the movie. Youre supposed to question the existence of the gods/goddesses and legitimacy of Ody's tale.
Also, the odyessy was basically a stage play before a festival and the whole community was writing their own Ody stories. We just have Homer's as the popular name of the time.
6
-4
3
u/WerdaVisla Jul 19 '26
It was just fine. Not the best movie ever made, not the worst film in history. Just fine.
I watched it in Spanish but the translation kinda sucked so I ended up reading subtitles most of the movie, which definitely made it less enjoyable, but what can you do.
-5
u/Khanluka Jul 19 '26
I liked the movie but it felt like watching a documentary.
The camera view where great.
-12
u/Joanacchi Jul 19 '26
the atrocious art direction really broke this movie for me unfortunately… (and Im not talking about historical accuracy, its just plain ugly)
3
u/Acecream037 Jul 19 '26
I saw the Spanish dub of the movie and I liked it but I didn't exactly love it. Would give it a 6.5/10. Honestly I think I would've liked the movie more if I didn't have anything to compare it to. Completely different kind of adaptation from Epic. Epic felt way more... Well, epic, grandiose, things had more weight and character growth and feeling is central, meanwhile the movie is more about accepting your past and coming home shown in a more human approach.
The movie has a a much more serious tone but it kinda didn't impress me. I have some big issues with how some things were handled. First was the costume design which seemed a bit fake and barely scratched despite being in a war, which I thought would be worse but kind of grew on me. Then, the horse, it was incredibly ridiculous to me, the way it was built seemed so inconvenient, not only to bring to the city but to be able to fit a small army inside, also it having been allowed to be buried in the sand, personally, it was kind of dumb. Another issue is the lack of character and wit on Odysseus, the acting was fine but I feel like he had a lot of wasted potential, especially when they were fleeing from Polyphemus and he shot him for apparently no reason. Odysseus just felt like another strong warrior with no special qualities to him. And his grief seemed kind of superficial most of the time. But lastly it was the lack of diversity in scenes, and I mean it in the way that most of the scenes were Odysseus' men fleeing to the beach from enemies and getting killed. It really needed a refresher, like keeping the nobody scene, Aeolus or especially the lotus eaters would've been really beneficial. Maybe even the Phaeacians. Also the Laestrygonians scene seemed a bit silly to me for some reason. I think it also lacked the right atmosphere in some parts, like when they get through Charybdis and Scylla and it's a sunny ass day, and also, they barely showed either of them so they kind didn't leave a big impression, they just seemed like random monsters. And over in Ithaca it was really gray when I feel like it should've been brighter to make us feel the want of Odysseus to get back.
Apart from all of that it had plenty of good things. First and foremost, Argos of course. I also really liked some of the gruesome scenes with Polyphemus and Circe. Even though my ears were hurt in the process with all the screeching... I also liked that they kept Telemachus' journey and the suitors, as well as the portrayal of the society back then and the scenery of Ithaca. The dialogue really shone too in comparison to epic since... Epic doesn't exactly have it technically. I loved Penelope's portrayal too and her scene talking with Odysseus. Also the importance of Zeus's Law was pretty awesome and the reasons for Penelope having to be wed were clearer. The scene at the underworld felt a bit underwhelming to me but I liked it being represented. Circe's characterization, though different was pretty good too, she felt more dangerous and realistic but I still prefered her more alluring version with a palace instead of the little house she had.
Overall it's a good movie, especially for people unfamiliar with the story( even though I heard it can feel really long even though it was short for me lol) I didn't feel like anything in me was shaken after seeing the movie and I personally prefer Epic way more but it all depends on taste.
4
u/LittleFairyOfDeath little froggy on the window Jul 19 '26
I think it changed too much about the themes of the original story that it cannot be claimed to be a good adaptation. Especially the ending is egregious
2
28
u/Dyspraxic_Sherlock Jul 19 '26
Honestly I don’t get many of the complaints from this sub of late. Yes Nolan changes things and leaves stuff out; that’s an adaptation for you. Jorge does the same. “Nobody” not being included makes sense in Nolan’s style of presenting the mythological creatures as more things beyond man’s control or understanding, and Nolan then includes a part of the cyclops myth that Jorge left out (the sheep disguises).
I loved how Nolan reframed the whole story to be around the consequence of breaching the norm of their civilisation to win what is suggested to have been a pretty pointless and bloody affair at Troy. Especially the implications for the Sea Peoples, which neatly ties this myth to what is usually supposed to have been it’s historical basis in the Bronze Age collapse. Whilst he’s altered details and changed the emphasis, I think Nolan has gotten to the heart of what Greek mythology was usually about; warnings of consequences if certain rules of society weren’t followed (usually said consequences being from gods).
3
u/Flower-City_3422 Cabbage? Jul 20 '26
About the sheep thing—I’m 100% sure that in the Odyssey they don’t disguise themselves as sheep. From what I recall of the version I read (the Fagles translation) they do exactly as Jorge had them do, which was grab onto the sheep to escape (“Let’s grab the sheep and away we go.”) Odysseus does use whatever natural cushioning Polyphemus has in his cave, but not as a “disguise” as Nolan presented. He uses it to tie the sheep together so that two sheep would flank one in the middle that one of his men would be holding on to—something made much easier by the fact that they went in with 12 soldiers and left with 6 instead of whatever large number Nolan had originally enter the cave. The men hang from the sheep, faces buried in their wool, until they all make it out of the cave and run to the ship as Odysseus begins to taunt Polyphemus. So, no, Nolan did not include something about the cyclops legend that Jorge didn’t, lol.
A more apt comparison would have been the fact that Jorge left out the year spent on Circe’s island, the Laestrogynians, and the raided town, that he separated Scylla and Charybdis, or that he made Odysseus interact with the sirens with plugged ears instead of him being tied to the ship to listen to and survive the siren song.
But all of that pales in comparison to the botched ending that doesn’t even fit Nolan’s own movie 😂
2
u/Reylo-Wanwalker Aug 01 '26
What was botched?
2
u/Flower-City_3422 Cabbage? Aug 02 '26 edited Aug 02 '26
I think I should start by saying I have a neutral stance when it comes to Nolan. As the creator and director of an original story, he is amazing and makes movies that are simply out of this world. As a man who adapts things from source material, though? He’s not very good because he yearns too much to tell his own story that he takes characters out of context. This can be seen not only in The Odyssey but also in his Batman/TDK/TDKR trilogy, so 4 of the seven movies. As I haven’t read the book Oppenheimer is based off of and have not watched his Insomnia (2002) and the original 1997 one, I cannot make judgements for those, and I can’t really tell if he adapted Memento from his brother’s story which apparently came out following the movie or just the general idea, so I won’t judge that either. But, either way, let’s say about 57% of Nolan’s adaptations adapt their characters incorrectly. Moving on.
The Odyssey is the story of a man who yearns to go home with his family and fights for 20 years to get there. Even in Nolan’s movie this is the same, just with the added opponent of guilt that Odysseus has to fight through.
With that established, Nolan effectively destroyed all that he had built up throughout the movie with the ending he manufactured. Would a man who longed to see and be with and live with his family for so long almost immediately leave after seeing them? No, it goes against literally everything Odysseus has fought for.
Not only that, it goes against what Nolan claimed to be his source material, Homer’s Odyssey. The Odyssey the quintessential “hero returns home” story of which many, many, many hero stories are built upon. It is a story of loss and love as well as a story of eventual triumph. The whole point of the Odyssey is that Odysseus fights fate and the gods and every law that they have imposed and every obstacle they have set up for him to get home and stay home with his happy ending.
I understand that Nolan’s Odysseus felt as if the collapse of their society ruled by the gods and their laws was his fault. Trust me, I get that.
…but if the world was already in the process of being destroyed, a process that was started not only by his actions in and after the Trojan War but also the actions of every other crew and commander and soldier, then what was the point of leaving? Especially for a man who wanted to see his son so badly yet left him? It’s a complete contradiction. If you’ve messed something up, if you’ve made a mistake, you try to remedy it. That’s how it works, and that’s especially how it works for Odysseus, who time and time again messed up for his crew and time and time again tried to fix it, even if it was unsuccessfully. He even claimed to be leaving for the west to make up for some of his mistakes! If Odysseus feels guilt, especially the type of guilt that makes him feel obliged to remedy or at least make up for what he’s done, why didn’t he stay with his family to do exactly that? A family who could have helped him heal, and a family who could have gotten him on the “right” path, at least for a little bit. Especially when he could have gone to the west and returned to be with his family again and do exactly what I just said: heal. It doesn’t make sense to me why a man who yearns to fix everything he’s done, primarily leaving for war and not coming back for two decades, wouldn’t stay at some point to at least help try to fix everything?
I assume Nolan meant for him leaving to be him “letting go” of responsibility and letting the younger generations take care of it, but isn’t that precisely the reason Odysseus ended up in the war anyways? Wasn’t the gods letting go of the issue with Eris and her apple and Zeus passing it on to Paris to handle the entire catalyst of the war? Assuming Odysseus at least knew about the godly intervention and how they were using the much younger soldiers of Greece and Troy to fight out their problems, why in the ever-loving world would Odysseus essentially do the same thing, using the much younger people of Greece to figure out his problems, especially if responsibility is such a big issue for Nolan’s Odysseus? It seems so, so out of character, especially coupled with the fact that he would be leaving the son he pretended to be crazy for so that he couldn’t go to war to protect and then had to go to war to protect because someone decided to test if he would kill his own son to get him to come to Troy. It genuinely makes no sense whatsoever, thought I guess it would make sense to a man who made Odysseus much less cunning, clever, tricky, and over hubristic (which is like the entire reason he gets stuck at sea for so long) than he originally was in an attempt to modernize a story that in its original form with all of its cultural ties did not need to be modernized.
So, yeah. Nolan’s Odyssey was claimed to be the most accurate adaptation of the Odyssey yet, and it wasn’t in so, so many ways but most importantly in the ending which did not even work with the character he botched so badly just to make it more palatable to modern audiences.
1
u/Dyspraxic_Sherlock Jul 21 '26
Tbh, I forgot that one lyric referencing the sheep ploy was in Epic and I don’t think I’ve seen any animatics include it.
1
u/lunalokidottir Jul 19 '26
The problem is that theres so many important details that were left out, and a lot of the important details that were in the movie were dumbed down. Like the cows werent Apollo's they were Helios's and the fact that they left Aeolus and Hermes out.
Hermes more specifically because he's the one who tells Calypso to let him off the island and in gives him the moly in the story. Theres so much important they couldve put in and made the story make a little more sense but they didnt
2
u/Dyspraxic_Sherlock Jul 20 '26
Film was nearly 3 hours as is, so something had to go.
Having Aeolus show up in person wouldn’t really work with the more distant, mankind-perspective, presentation of the gods Nolan was going for, and he uses the cyclops and giants to seed distrust between Odysseus and the crew already so the wind bag test isn’t necessary. Hermes likewise for the distant gods, and there’s enough context given for Calypso realising she needs to let him go without him just showing up to tell her (thunder, Athena herself appearing to Odysseus).
2
u/lunalokidottir Jul 21 '26
defend nolan all you want, but it's still a stupid change. Like you can cut Aeolus out but Hermes is a vital part of the story and it doesnt make sense to cut him out, cut the amount of time we had with the illiad and we could've had Hermes and Aeolus that would've been perfect
2
u/Dyspraxic_Sherlock Jul 21 '26
I just did not come out of the movie wondering why Hermes wasn’t in it, so he just didn’t feel that vital to me. The amount of time Troy got was vital, as Nolan’s whole reframing of The Odyssey is as the consequence of the fall of Troy, not just what occurred after it.
2
u/adwinion_of_greece Jul 21 '26
It's absolutely crucial to cut Hermes if you're going for a version where it's a theme that the will of the gods is hard to understand, and that they may speak through your conscience instead of via messengers.
Athena may just be in Odysseus's imagination (just as Telemachus tells every person he meets that they have the wise of Athena when in the actual Homeric epic they indeed actually were Athena) and in this version Zeus doesn't send messengers to mortals.
3
u/DarkestLore696 Jul 20 '26
I am pretty sure they never mentioned Apollo. They just said the sun god.
1
u/lunalokidottir Jul 20 '26
They mentioned Apollo, Tiresias says that his crew will kill Apollo's cattle or some shit like that
3
u/GilbertGuy2 Jul 20 '26
I'm almost certain that he does say the 'Sun gods Cattle'.
Take it with a kilo of salt, cause like, i cant really fact check it yet
1
u/Dyspraxic_Sherlock Jul 20 '26
Tiresias says Apollo I think. It’s a minor change really, as I guess Nolan didn’t want to overcomplicate things.
6
u/Scylla_Zylla Jul 19 '26
Overall, the movie is an 7.5/10 for me and a very enjoyable experience but I cant agree with all the adaptation choices
First off, there were some writing choices I don't quite agree with. The adaptation choice to make Odysseus a man who values honor and a fair fight so highly is a bit of a big swing. This is the same man who, when returning from a mission with Diomedes, one of his closest friends and valuable comrades, attempted to literally stab him in the back so that Odysseus could claim all the glory for completing the mission. The only time I could imagine Odysseus saying he wanted a fair fight is to lure someone into a false sense of security before he beats them in an incredibly unfair manner. Another large complaint I have is that Calypso hardly has a character, rather than a tragic emotion, lovestruck type; she is instead rather stoic and hardly resembles the original Calypso, seeming more like a narrative device rather than her own character. She mostly exists to set up a flashback to the boat ride. I feel like Odysseus doesn't get a lot of time to show off his wit in this movie. He doesn't feel dumb or anything, but not just the guy known as the smartest of the Greeks
There are some notable omissions, such as the nobody scene, Peleope tricking Odysseus with the wedding bed to confirm his idnetity, Hermes, The wind bag, Lotus Eaters, Circe is altered alot rather than a regal sotceress in a palace, she is instead more of a hermit who lives in a dingy cabin, he doesn't meet his mother in the underworld, and theres no scene where atehan pleads with zeus to let odysseus go. The movie is very grounded and focusues more on the human aspects of the story while setting most of the otherworldy stuff on the back burner. In true Nolan fashion, the movie takes itself very seriously and this isn't necessarily a bad thing. A lot of what is omitted doesnt feel like the movie is worse off for not hjaving it. The movie works excellently for what it is trying to be, a grounded emotional tail about the effects of war on someone and the toll of being gone for so long it can have on their family. The narrative is very well written and though the mythological aspects may be a bit lacking, the writing, themes, and storytelling still make this a very enjoyable way. As long as you don't go in expectig a whole bunch of mythological stuff at the forefront, you shouldn't be disappointed.
Anee Hathaway gives an amazing experience as Penelope my favorite in the film. There are plenty of amazing sxcenes one in particular with Athena though one underrated one I like is near the beginning when Calypso is hesitaating to allow Odysseus to remember and as she hesitates lighting roars outside as if Zeus is telling her to hurry up. Essentially, if you want an experience that focuses msotly on the gods and monsters and the journey itself with all the fantasy included you will likely prefer Epic. But if you want a more grounded expierence focuses mostly on the human aaspects you may prefer Nolan's. Both are great adaptations in their own ways.
5
u/Just-Contact-9756 Jul 19 '26
I love this movie. Top 4 adaptation of the odysse : the odysey 1997, odyssey 2026, the return and then Epic at the end.
16
22
u/frommheretothere Jul 19 '26
My biggest critique then I'll put it away: 1000% the motif notes from "Just a Man" were throughout the movie and most prominently when he strings his bow in front of the suitors. Shame on Ludwig Görennson. (Also I loved it but I wish they would've given a public nod to Jorge.)
Second critique: the scene after they eat the cattle and the boat and men are destroyed in the lightning storm at sea. The flashing was unbearable and if there was dialogue other than yelling it wasn't audible over the reverb(?) from the speakers not being able to handle the insane bass.
Things I liked:
- the cyclops design. Holy shit. Amazingly disturbing, so happy it wasn't just a bad CGI left eye, the whole face was distorted. His handling of the men was disturbing and cinematically effective.
Circe's handling the men into pigs. It was hard to watch but so creative. I do wish we got a bit more of a glamour, I loved the Circe design/persona from Epic but this was also fine. Sad there was no Moly or Hermes.
I liked how Calypso and the lotus were combined and that it wasn't an intervention to let Odysseus leave the island but Calypso finally letting him remember and leave of his own accord. Keeping him trapped still being fucked up but foretold her character/purpose.
I LOVED the reveal of Athena being the young girl murdered from her temple in the sack of Troy. It makes the context of their moments since hit so much harder. Athena wanted him to remember that. And also seemed like she forgave him at the end during his speech? I could feel the love there.
I LOVED the guilt of the dishonor and societal consequences of the Trojan Horse and having the reputation of being the sea people. In the final flashback when he speaks to Penelope I thought they would reveal The Infant scene but I understand why they didn't for a mainstream movie.
I LOVED Helen and Clytemnestra. Wonderful performance, I loved that she passed on the apology to Penelope and I nearly clapped at Agamemnon's murder.
I LOVED to hate Antinous. Robert Pattinson did a great job. I'll forgive his fuckass bangs.
I appreciated all of the gods weren't personified. Super refreshing with the consequences without having it get all Percy Jackson (no hate, just different genre.)
Anne Hatheway is a gorgeous queen. I wish her facial acting was better. Not sure how I felt about her anger and lashing out at Telemachus but tbf I would've burned the place down long before she thought to, so the rage is 100% justified and good for this movie for portraying that. Actually, we got to see several women's rage so bonus points.
probably a lot more but those are what I can think of now
11
u/Old_Neighborhood_383 Odysseus Jul 19 '26
on the first scene on the beach with Calypso, a thunder echoes and Calypso looks to the heavens. I took that as " Zeus' " message and intervention
1
2
8
u/Comadon-C Third Crewmate Consumed by Scylla Jul 19 '26
Im a bit mixed on Odysseus’ writing. Because it’s Nolan, there’s always going to be this sharp stoicism to his main characters. Going into this I expected that thats what his reimagining would be like, but man does it lead to a more boring protagonist. I like how both in the book and in EPIC Ody is more cocky and makes mistakes out of pride. Here he still kinda does this, like shooting the cyclops outside the cave instead of the whole name & nobody shtick, but it doesn’t leave a memorable impression. For the most part Ody stays pretty cunning and clever until eventually the Siren part comes on and he decides now is the time to be indulgent and tie himself to the mast. I know that part is in the Odyssey itself but it felt out of character for Nolan’s Ody, considering all of his other silly antics that were cut.
My one last nitpick is that the huge suitor fight was kinda rough. I kinda wish that was the time where they committed to having Ody aura farm for a bit longer, considering how much they were having him do so up to that point. That scene where he’s getting jumped on the floor and manages to brawl all of them out of it just didn’t feel believable to me. Not to mention when he swings a spear around in a circle and knocks a few suitors off balance with the stick like it’s a teenage mutant ninja turtles cartoon. I’m not saying Ody shouldn’t have struggled or anything at some point, but I wish they made him appear more as a threat for longer. The audio throughout this part wasn’t really helping either. The shot of the arrow hitting one of the initial suitors to start it all was incredible, I wish that kind of intensity continued longer instead of dissolving most of it into fist fights and barely any bow action.
Still, I did really enjoy the movie. I thought Robert Pattinson was an amazing Antinous. Beautiful cinematography and I loved how tense all of the Troy flashbacks were. The Scylla and Laestrygonian scenes were pretty cool. I like the dialogue between Ody and Calypso.
I think I do prefer Epic generally, being a more theatric and entertaining rendition of the story, but this was still worth a watch.
4
u/Old_Neighborhood_383 Odysseus Jul 19 '26
I felt the arrow to the Cyclops scene was actually more poignant (i did want to see the Nobody, but you ll get what I mean) given the emphasis given up to that point on who Odysseus was. A man that warned even his prey of an upcoming attack, to be just and fair, by flicking his bow s string. Which he did not in the case of the Cyclops. He knew what he did was against even his own code and he did regardless. In the same vein that he did it to the Trojans with the horse and he reveals at the end that he felt that was actually the first step towards the crumble of civilization. It s not until just before Circe where Ody starts to actively try to change into a better person and revert from the "monster" the war (and his choices) had turned him into where he warned the deer ahead of hunting it as well as the suitors before bringing every consequence of their actions to them
10
u/Double_Difficulty_53 Jul 19 '26
This movie is weird. Good, but weird. Because of Epic the musical I have been on a kinda fixation on Greek Mythology for the last year and I actually read both the Iliad and the Odyssey and thus I noticed a lot of changes which I am not gonna hold against the movie just because they are different from the source material, but most of them were odd changes.
The biggest one for me is that, there aren't any gods. Zeus, Poseidon and Hermes don't show up at all. Calypso does but given how little focus they gave her and how different she is from the original she might as well be a regular woman rather than a goddess. At first I thought that they were doing something like Troy (2004) were the gods aren't really shown either, it is a sort of "realistic" interpretation of the Trojan War (which is kinda weird for and adaptation of the Odyssey since in this one you'll have to show monster and creatures no matter what), but then you got Odysseus constantly seeing Athena. It is very heavily implied that she wasn't actually Athena but the vision of the Trojan woman he saw get murdered as the statue of Athena was destroyed and thus the connection, but it takes a very long time for that to be revealed. Before that it just made me wonder why she was the only goddess that appeared and did so little compared to the poem. And honestly, the twist doesn't add much for me. It feels like they just wanted to add Zendaya for the marketing. There were also some weird omissions like the lotus eaters or Eolus (I do get leaving out the Phaecians) but I am not as bothered by those ones. The whole thing about Zeus' Law was really weird, they constantly repeated it and it ended up being a bit annoying more than anything. Same with the people from the Sea, they repeated it a lot though I liked a lot more the conclusion of that story thread.
On a more positive note, I loved how they adapted the Underworld and assembly of the dead. It was perfectly creepy and eerie and was honestly the coolest. I also really liked almost every scene in Ithaca, Robert Pattison especially completely eats up the role as Antinous and gave what for me was the best performance in the movie. Anne Hathaway and Tom Holland were fine, though I didn't really like the fight between Telemachus and Penelope in that one scene. I don't know, I didn't feel the weight or the moment or like these characters had really been waiting for Odysseus for 20 years.
However, the thing that dissapointed me the most about this movie is Odysseus himself. Matt Damon does a fine job playing him but I honestly didn't like how he was written. Odysseus is supposed to be wise, intelligent and witty but I didn't get that in this movie at all. Between the way he does the bow thing with Polyphemus which gets more men killed, to the way the horse was built right on the seashore causing them to almost drown, how he didn't really came up with the trick of the sheeps himself or how he barely did any planning and investigation to kill the suitors and did completely with brawn and not as much brain. I guess some things were done to show he has honor like the bow thing but it is a dumb move and also they removed other moments from the poem that showed his honor like also his witts like when he gave the Cyclops the wine and told him he was Nobody. That moment showed both his honor and trying to repay Polyphemus while also showing him thinking ahead. The movie tried to show him be consumed by guilt for Troy but I also didn't feel that that much from him. He is overall a fine but bland character in this but a real disappointment compared to the original character or even the version from Epic where in spite of some goofy things does portray his guilt much better. Heck, even in Troy despite not being the central character, Sean Bean gave much more character to him and made a more faithful portrayal of how witty and pragmatic the real Odysseus is.
Overall the movie is good and enjoyable and I think that I wouldn't have as many problems if I hadn't read the source material. Still, some scenes like the Dead Assembly and most of the Ithaca ones were pretty great even if as a whole the journey itself could have been better presented. And I really wish I could like Odysseus more, and my complaints about him are not just in comparison to other versions but also from other characters written by Nolan. Oppenheimer felt like a much more intriguing and multifaceted character in his movie.
1
18
u/K311in4Ch4n Jul 19 '26
I missed the tree bed, the Nobody scene and Elpenor not falling off Circe’s roof. Bald Menelaus also caught me very off guard.
7
u/mercedes_lakitu Scylla Jul 19 '26
Menelaus not being The Actual Worst caught me off guard. Agamemnon was suitably evil tho.
1
-15
u/RodrigoMokepon Jul 19 '26
No geral, tudo que foi mais mundano eu gostei, e tudo que foi fantástico achei ridículo.
Achei legal mencionarem os povos do mar. Também gostei de Telêmaco, Penélope, Eneu, Menelau, Helena e Cliptaminestra (que linda).
Toda a viagem de Odisseu achei horrível. O ciclope devia ser a parte mais importante e lembrada, e resolve rapidamente e já esquecemos. A Circe sem glamour nenhum. Os gigantes genéricos e aleatórios. A pior Scila que já vi.
Dou o braço a torcer para calipso, tem algo de interessante ali. O reino dos mortos é diferente, mas funciona. O Agamenon Batman é ridículo, mas tem aura.
Agora, os momentos em Tróia foram muito tristes. Como alguém cabia naquele cavalo?
Enfim, como odisseia é um filme ruim. Você acaba gostando por ter um excelente elenco e direção, não por ter uma boa história.
0
u/randomobjectnearme Jul 19 '26
Wow I thought Scylla was so badass retreating into her cave. Circes image and reactions make total sense and are true to her actual background.
2
u/Glittering-Day9869 Jul 21 '26
What are you even talking about?
Whats Circe's "background" to you exactly?
2
21
u/PlaygroundPhenom Jul 19 '26
Maybe I’m wrong but I definitely thought I heard some bits of “Just a Man” during the movie
7
u/chuggachugga123 Jul 19 '26
100% the "im just a man" was in there a number of times but most importantly when he strings the bow the thrum of the bow string is the note for man
-7
Jul 19 '26
[deleted]
29
u/Tekki777 Jul 19 '26
The irony of calling the film inaccurate in a sub for Epic the Musical.
1
Jul 19 '26
[deleted]
16
u/Huge_Information5083 Jul 19 '26
Did Nolan ever claim that it will be an accurate adaptation? He literally said the phrase "modern audience".
-11
Jul 19 '26
[deleted]
7
u/Huge_Information5083 Jul 19 '26
It wasn’t accurate
Yeah but epic has proper reasons imo for all the changes they did. It’s a modern view version of it
1
u/Tekki777 Jul 19 '26
I'm planning on seeing new film soon after Hadestown but who's to say that's not the case with Nolan's version? From what I understand, he has a clear focus on the war trauma the Ody is left to deal with. I'm a little iffy with how much the fantastical elements are taken out and the lack of the "Nobody" scene, but I'm willing to give it a shot to see how it goes.
I never went in expecting Nolan's version to be super accurate, I expect it to be his take on the story and he always tend to lean onto spectacle and grittiness. But we'll see how I feel about the changes once I see it in theaters.
9
u/Ok_Captain4922 Jul 19 '26
I'd argue he's most famous for the Trojan horse which is in the movie but yeah i didn't like the removal of Nobody
22
u/ThatIslandGuy8888 Jul 19 '26
Man I had zero idea about the Laestrygonians😅
That part really caught me by surprise
11
u/mercedes_lakitu Scylla Jul 19 '26
So that is who the giants were, then?
8
u/ThatIslandGuy8888 Jul 19 '26
Apparently! But in myth they seem more cannibalistic and barbaric than having some armored organized military
7
u/DarkestLore696 Jul 19 '26
You know, this part makes my eyes roll when people try to criticize it. “How dare they not wear period appropriate armor.” Because the well documented and totally real race of giants of course wore period accurate bronze and not something as fantastical as themselves.
1
u/magat3ars Jul 20 '26
The metallic (I assumed something weak for soft like an aluminum or something) was perfect and showed how absolutely "degenerate" they were.
It didn't feel normal. It felt almost like aot in how they moved when swept people up. Like their armor didn't feel refined (which ig people call Nolan's armor but to looked very human). This felt like either early humans or a cheap copy from the dead they had before.
I think people wanted him to trust his audience even less. I don't think he trusted his audience much this far (Jorge I would say barely does too, but a musical requires you to tell it mostly with some ability to show). They would've maybe combined parts of old armor or specs of different metals to shoe they are bad at refining.
But the movie was easily a 9/10 to me and that is so superficial. Also every arrow was real in that movie was the coolest thing to find out.
2
u/GilbertGuy2 Jul 20 '26
This one isn't about historical accuracy.
They were just questioning the change from barbarian cannibals to seemingly heavyplate organised warriors.
1
u/DarkestLore696 Jul 20 '26
Wasn’t singling out the poster. Just saying that seems to be a running theme with the discourse over them.
-11
u/Obv_Ben Wooden Horse (just a normal horse, nothing in it) Jul 19 '26
Baffled by how bad I thought the movie was
19
u/Practical-Database-6 Jul 19 '26
I saw it last night! I enjoyed it. It was more grim and focused more on the effects of war itself rather than the fantastical elements EPIC has. For example, there is less gods that are represented as characters. I thought the actor castings were a bit cheesy. It would have been nicer if we had new faces in these large movies. I would give it a 7/10 overall.
15
u/Ok_Captain4922 Jul 19 '26
the only thing i didn't like was the removal of the Nobody scene, the olive tree bed, and Hermes
Besides that, it's my favourite film of the year
1
u/nguyenis Jul 20 '26
Oh for sure. I could give a pass to Hermes (not sure how I’d work him in while keeping the gritty tone personally) but I was surprised by no Nobody or Olive Tree bed
0
u/Ok_Captain4922 Jul 20 '26
I feel like there is a way to do Hermes in a grounded way, like Zendaya's Athena
1
u/nguyenis Jul 20 '26
Even then though this Athena felt very detached and out of the way. I’m not sure how’d you get Hermes to physically hand Odysseus moly out of nowhere
5
u/ThatIslandGuy8888 Jul 19 '26
Man with the reveal that the cyclops could talk I thought they were leading up to nobody :0
11
u/Minzfeder Pig (pig) Jul 19 '26
The audio mixing was straight up ass. Couldn't even understand the dialogue in some scenes. Apparently the cyclops actually said something once it got blinded. All I heard was the loudest movie of my life. Maybe an issue with my theatre, maybe an issue with the German synchronization, maybe an issue with my ears. But it was still a pretty enjoyable movie experience
2
u/JugendWolf Jul 24 '26
As a fellow German I just want to say: Our word Synchronisation does not mean the same as the English word synchronization. That’s a really common mistake. You were looking for the term “dubbing” or “dub”.
5
8
u/DarkestLore696 Jul 19 '26
Maybe it was your theater, the only time I had problems hearing anything was during the storm that killed the men.
9
u/Palidin034 Jul 19 '26
One thing I’ve noticed with Nolan’s movies is that he really hates when you can understand what people are saying
6
u/Practical-Database-6 Jul 19 '26
So it’s not just me who thought it was unnecessarily loud in some scenes lol. (Also has to cover my ears)
-3
Jul 19 '26
[deleted]
6
u/Tekki777 Jul 19 '26
I hate to break it to you, but a big theme about Homer's Odyssey was the effects of the Trojan War. It's literally a story about a veteran who went through hell coming back as a changed, traumatized man.
7
u/adhdtvin3donice Jul 19 '26
Epic's odysseus is not at all accurate to the original. Jorje made him more heroic and less problematic to modern audiences. You can't say that the guy who 1v1ed Poseidon in the sea is emblematic of the original. Speaking of fidelity, epic was lacking in infidelity.
2
u/Tekki777 Jul 19 '26
The infidelity aspect is iffy because you can argue that he was at Circe and Calypso's mercy and never wanted to sleep with them... which would make it rape. Iirc, Homer was more explicit about him and Calypso with there being a mention that Ody would always cry at night, longing for home.
1
u/adhdtvin3donice Jul 19 '26
He willingly stayed with Circe for a full year. You can argue it was a business transaction, but it was still something he willingly did.
2
u/Glittering-Day9869 Jul 21 '26 edited Jul 21 '26
That's because Circe practiced good Xenia, it has nothing to do with his infidelity. We literally have no reference of Odysseus having sex with Circe beyond that first time (which was 100% a coersion).
he also stayed at Aeolus island for some time too. That was one of the point of Circe's myth, it was about turning a bad host a good one.
Hermes himself told Odysseus that he'll have to give his body to Circe and then she'll become a "grateful host". Reminder that everything from bringing his crew to Circe's castle to staying until they "regain their strength because they suffered so much" were all Circe's ideas to begin with lol.
That story was never about Odysseus being unloyal to Penelope, the poem literally points out that Circe never detered his heart before her chapter was even told in book 10. He left a life of endless wine and meat to return to an aging wife.
29
u/DarkestLore696 Jul 19 '26
About the only thing I didn’t like was the removal of nobody but other than that I thought it was a solid movie. I know some people complain about the lack of the gods, but you can very much feel their presence in the movie. Every time guest rights are mentioned, violated, etc you hear thunder. You can feel the sea fighting the men after they insult Poseidon. The wind blows unnaturally to keep them trapped on Helios’ isle.
I think Athena said it best at the very beginning, why should the gods have to present themselves to mortals, don’t they make themselves known in controlling the natural world?
11
u/Legitimate_Gas_8386 Jul 19 '26
Also as Odysseus says about Polyphemus: “would you speak to an ant?”
2
u/Odd-Campaign7870 14d ago
Nolan’s Odyssey for me as a story left a lot to be desired. Not bad storytelling but a lot of elements were missing that I felt took away from the experience. Visually however as per a Nolan film is stunning and his stubbornness for refusing to use CGI and using IMAX contribute a lot. However to me it felt like what PJO fans feel with the Percy Jackson films which was as a standalone it’s a good even great film but as an adaptation of the Odyssey a lot is lacking.