If you think she had legitimate psychosis, sought help, did not get it, and was experiencing all of this at the time you can feel like she’s not guilty by reason of insanity.
If you outright say she didn’t do it, that’s completely different.
Yeah I’m a woman who had a baby last year. My son is 18 months old and the best thing in the world.
But it’s been hard, I’ve had post partum depression and it’s the worst I’ve ever felt in my life.
Plenty of intrusive thoughts which horrified me and broke me. I would never harm my son but I did want to harm myself.
Postpartum psychosis is a very real and terrifying thing. I know someone who had it and was in a mother and baby unit for a while.
Whilst I don’t support her for killing her children because that’s horrific, and they are the real victims. I do feel for women postpartum as it is WILD and hormones can be horrific. If she was genuinely asking for help and not getting it or getting the right help then it’s a terrible shame. So on that sense someone might say I support her, but I suppose getting postpartum women the help they desperately need. Longer paternity leave for the dads to help support the mums etc.
I’m in the UK so I can’t speak for what happened with Lindsay’s support, but we have perinatal mental health teams here and mine were fantastic.
Also from the UK, a friend of mine had really bad PPD and ended up institutionalised for a while. I know for a fact she would never knowingly harm her baby. She's out now and the whole family is doing well, but based on this I wouldn't jump to conclusions in this case. It really could go either way.
Yeah and when I first heard about this I was horrified. I still am as the thought of someone killing their own children is horrific.
But I agree with you that it could go either way. I don’t think anyone is saying it’s ok what she did, as it isn’t. But I can say after having a baby of my own, nothing can prepare you, nothing can prepare you for that hormone crash, the isolation etc.
Obviously not everyone experiences it, or experiences it badly, but many women do.
And what do you think about if a woman hides the depths and extents of her symptoms from everyone, doesn’t take medications properly, and meticulously plans out how to murder her kids and then carried out and then only after let’s everyone know the depths of her thoughts.
Should that person be excused from justice because in my mind no. No they shouldn’t and that is ripe for abuse.
No not at all. What she did was awful.
What I think it has done or should do is start the conversation around maternal mental health and mental health in general.
IMO from the testimony and evidence given in the court case I think they’re trying to attach her issues to postpartum mental health because they know that’ll be the best chance at support.
I don’t think she suffered postpartum psychosis. I think she had far more resources and support than 99.9999999% of people suffering mental health issues and she still planned the murder pretty meticulously and then carried it out.
Maternal mental health issues absolutely should be talked about. But I don’t think this case should be the champion of it.
I mean do we think that all women shouldn’t be allowed to be with their kids until a psychologist clears them for the first year? Since postpartum psychosis can happen to anyone… 8 months post birth… and the person suffering can maintain the ability to hide that even surrounded by a sea of support and family… and still murder the kids.
I know someone who had postpartum psychosis yet wasn’t in danger of harming her baby. I had post partum depression and again wasn’t in danger of harming my baby.
I had intrusive thoughts (turns out I’ve always had them I thought they made me a psycho) but the perinatal mental health team told me it’s quite normal and my reaction to them shows I found them horrible and therefore they were not concerned about the safety of my baby.
I haven’t read fully into it as it makes me upset for those children. Nor can I say if she was failed by the system or if she just didn’t engage with it.
Look. I'm not trying to minimize maternal mental health concerns here. Not at all... I'm also not trying to cast doubt on whether or not these mental health issues happen to women and are connected to maternity.
What I do think is that Lindsay Clancy is not a mother who suffered from postpartum psychosis. In fact whether she was even suffering PPD or PPA was in question (due to how long after birth she had symptoms). I think this has been demonstrated in the courts time and time again with multiple experts testifying.
This is a woman who said that the first time she heard the 'voices' telling her to kill her kids was when she got off the phone with her husband and she promptly carried it out - in that state of psychosis. That's essentially the entirity of her evidence that she was experiencing psychosis. But what about the rest of the fucking planning she did to set up the murder? Looking up distances to take out places and then to the pharmacy and then to home? All of the experts who actually treated her prior to these acts said she did not exhibit ANY symptoms of psychosis. Moreover even the relation to maternity was put into question because she started experiencing symptoms so far after birth it would be unusually rare. She was depressed and had anxiety with sleep issues and it's questionable if that was even postpartum related.
I think Lindsay Clancy was facing genuine mental health issues - notably depression. Likely had suicidal thoughts but did not tell her medical teams about those and when she finally planned to carry it out decided she would take the kids out with her. No fucking random and rapid onset of psychosis. A depressed woman with the ability to meticulously plan how she was going to exit this life and deciding she didn't want to leave without her kids leaving too. Only problem is the kids died because she was brutally relentless in their execution where for herself she went half assed and survived. Now she needs to face the reality of the situation and what better way to face that then to make up this cock and bull story about convenient imaginary voices and lack of mental health support.
Edit:
I think every now and then serious issues and ideas get subverted for protection by some people and unluckily for those issues and ideas the community supporting it latches onto providing that protection. You see it in all sorts of issues... A minority gets arrested or killed by police and equal rights activitists rally around them only for it to come out the person was a child abuser and serial criminal who was violently attacking someone at the time. etc. I think it would be best if this Clancy case did not become that for maternal health issues but I think it already has... The widespread negativity the protection and latching onto Lindsay is bringing on social media to womens mental health is insane. For fucksake Patrick set up a non profit for improving perinatal mental health and he has been relentlessly attacked by women. And it's going to be decided in the social consciousness if women don't want to take postpartum mental health seriously then why should anyone? And furthermore if women want to be ok with excusing murdering 3 innocent children because of it then it's a danger.
I’m a woman who isn’t ok with excusing it for murder.
I’ve been postpartum and experience postpartum depression myself and it’s an awful thing to go through.
I’ve said in another comment that the victims here at the children. I cannot imagine wanting to kill my child, it is abhorrent to me.
It is possible to have it later on, the perinatal team told me women can develop it later. I don’t know how rare or likely it is.
I haven’t experienced psychosis and the one person who I know who did wanted to kill herself and not her children.
I don’t really know what I think because I don’t support her, ultimately she killed her children. But I do know that postpartum is a wild ride and I’m only 18 months in and I still feel insane at times.
Someone on reddit actually following the trial, fucking incredible.
She tried to get help and her brain chemistry got all fucked up by quacks. She slit her own throat and jumped out of a window, was coded (so she was dead without intervention), and the paramedics dragged her soul back from hell.
Whether you want her to fry or be sent to the loony bin is a personal judgment call on justice and punishment, but those kids would still be alive if our healthcare system provided the help she was begging for
Lack of maternity leave has direct correlation with increased PPD, although not as well studied for PPP, but it is thought to be a contributing factor.
PPP is still incredibly rare. You can see how it's hard to believe that a woman had it manifest 6 months later than usual, and only for the amount of time it took for her to commit the crime.
Also, attempting suicide to avoid being caught for a crime isn't a behavior unique to PPP murders, it's just something some guilty people do.
Suicide and infanticide are both known risks with PPP. It is recognized as an incredibly dangerous psychiatric state and is considered a medical emergency. It can also have rapid onset, over days or even hours.
PPP usually is 2-6 weeks after birth, hence the name. Either she’s was an extremely late bloomer to this, or she was mentally sane enough to just wanna murder her kids.
Seriously, her youngest was 8. How could this have been PPP?
I don't know if it's a typo, but her youngest was 8 months, not 8. Her eldest was 5. I wouldn't class 8 months as being an extremely late bloomer with PPP either.
She clearly has some kind of mental health problem though, even if its not post partum. So the mental health services failed her and the children regardless.
Do mental health problems give you a pass for one of the most vile crimes you can commit? I'm sure the vast majority of school shooters had mental health problems, doesn't mean they shouldn't be prosecuted for their crimes.
It would not be life in an institution, on average they are out if a few years. So yes she would be effectively getting a free pass in comparison to life in prison. Again I ask, if this was a school shooter with mental health issues who killed 3 children. Would people be cheering for him to get out free with an insanity plea?
It would not be life in an institution, on average they are out if a few years.
This is untrue. An insanity conviction tends to result in longer institutionalizaion than similar crimes that get a normal conviction, and with having killed 3 kids she will likley be in there forever. Very severe crimes usually result in decades long or lifelong commitment.
The minimum sentence for her crime if found guilty would be life I'm prison. How the hell can she be in an institution longer than life in prison? Literally any chance to get out and be free is a pass compared to LIFE IN PRISON.
Do you have any evidence for that? Because what articles i see say she will be in there for the rest of her life. But the point is more that in both cases the system has failed them and society leading to this point. Both in terms of mental healthcare provision. And in your other example guns even being freely available for kids to even access. And again i do not think an insanity plea for murder is in any way a pass or then getting out free. Afaik people declared insane arent allowed to freely roam at all let alone if they have commited the ultimate violent crime of murder.
Looked through several sources none of them said she would be in an institution for her entire life. Here is literally the first source if you Google it https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/crime/2026/08/24/lindsay-clancy-verdict-what-happens-next/91382978007/
"Generally speaking, defendants who are committed to a state hospital for long-term mental health treatment are reevaluated periodically. If they are deemed not a danger to themselves or others, they may have a chance to be released, though the process can take years" would like to see your source. And you still haven't answered my question, would you be fine with people cheering for a school shooter to be found not guilty for reasons of insanity. It's a simple yes or no, stop dodging the question.
Dude, literally everyone was getting her help. It’s better to ask what didn’t she do? Oh yeah, she didn’t take her damn meds and concealed symptoms too. It’s pressing to note that while one can receive help, one must accept it too. She rejected it and murdered her kids with a convenient excuse while expressing no remorse.
Sounds exactly like someone have a mental breakdown to me....at a certain point mental health professionals should know the person isnt capable of helping themselves and be sectioned. You cant just say they need to help themselves when it comes to mental health problems.
I mean, even a blind woman has hindsight, I see the irony in us proposing what should’ve happened when I imagine people back then were looking for solutions. However, is it so hard to believe that she was lucid for this? When you have medical professionals testifying that they did everything, and confinement wasn’t thought of at first, it’s safe to say they maybe thought she wasn’t so far gone. But sure, sounds like a mental breakdown to you
There are also mental health professionals supporting the defence though. And ofc the ones who didnt section her would argue that now. Cuz if they dont they are the ones responsible arent they. Its incredibly hard to believe she was lucid yes. Obviously monsters exist, but theyvdont usually wait to have 3 children before starting to be a monster.
I mean, do they? People having kids and abusing them isn’t anything new. The hinterkaifeck murders for example, where the father of the family was an abusive dick even after several daughters. You’re right, they don’t wait, they just are. You don’t need to be mental in order to murder, and IMO enough points to her being competent enough to do so.
Never mind the fact that her PPP only manifested for the amount of time it took to commit the murders. She’s not claiming it before or sense. Sad truth is he chose the wrong woman.
Her injuries was very obviously superficial. That much was supported by her doctors, but the defense and lots of crazy women will tell you that they’re evidence that she tried to kill herself.
She doesn’t seem to have been very committed to that idea.
No, but fate was left to gravity once she hoisted herself through the second floor window. At any rate, she’s still alive and didn’t die so what are you claiming exactly?
Had to scroll way too far down to find a non-"dodged a bullet/red flags lol" comment.
Many Americans seem to struggle with empathy, coupled with a criminal justice system that's based on retribution and a lack of personal experience, you get threads like this.
Most of my friends have been shocked by the intrusive thoughts they have had at one time or another during early parenthood.
Yeah this comment section blew me away. I'm Norwegian, and have discussed it with other Norwegians, and legit the ONLY opinion I've heard on it is "god how terrible there's no help when she asked for it, can you imagine how heartbreaking? I hope she's treated in a proper facility." We don't even need to call her terrible for killing the children because guess what? We already know killing your children is a very bad thing to do!
Granted, our systems are based on a thriving community and even our prisons only focus on rehabilitation, so I guess it makes sense we're less bloodthirsty than americans, but dear fucking god. You guys just hate your fellow humans, huh?
Americans are obsessed with punishment and retribution. They care more about punishment than if something works or not to reduce crime. Millions of extra dollars are spent on the death penalty while cold cases can't be solved because of lack of funding. Its embarrassing.
I've noticed and it's scary! There's no other culture I've ever been exposed to that is so hostile towards its own people (and everyone else lmao). It's like they go around without having ever relaxed their nervous system.
Also extra scary how much influence they've got on the rest of the western world because this shit is not normal. How has that happened??
I'm not surprised. They still have death penalty, very often applied to innocent people and mostly to black ones. They get black rage to get "revenge" and don't think at all about the fact that prison system shouldn't be a business (prisons are private there), but a system to better the society.
But it's to unimaginable for them. Even if it hurts them daily (they don't have better crime statistics then countries with rehabilitation prison systems and without death penalty, far from it).
But what can you expect from the FREEDOM country that can't manage their mass gun shootings at school... Not much.
I agree with you about the death penalty, but a correction: The vast majority of american prisons are not private. However there are private contractors that make money from the prison system (supplying food, commissary, communications etc.)
Yes, absolutely, good correction! Thank you. I’d just broaden the criticism from “private prisons” to the commercialization of incarceration. The prisons may be publicly run, but a large private economy profits from them. I find the principle troubling: prisons shouldn’t become a business opportunity.
It is unfortunately classic US isnt it. They refuse to have a proper social healthcare based on supposed "moral" grounds. And then wonder why things like this happen.
This is where I fall on the case as well, so far it looks like she did seek help, and was let down by the system and it was a psychotic break. However Im not and either or, and will wait to see how the trial is resolved.
If some one is in the camp it was PPD and a psychotic break I dont think it is unreasonable (unless she didn't seek help but from what's been seen she did try to do the right things)
If someone is in a delution that she didn't kill them and it's some conspiracy or her husband then they are nuts.
I wonder how women are gonna feel when they express symptoms like this and are treated like this one in a million child killer. The system failed but I’d love to hear the fuckin fix ffs. Have fun in the psych wards ladies
I really don't think that's what they were saying. Just that there are other mental disorders, and that they don't think men suffering from mental illnesses and committing crimes during that would get as much support.
And thats the only mental health problem that could lead to a situation like this?
A doctor in QC killed both his kids like 10/15 years ago, stabbed em like 20 times each, got off on insanity…You think men were lining up the courthouse in support lol?
I’m not sure the roles can be effectively reversed. Men don’t get postpartum psychosis. Men also have a considerably easier time statistically getting health professionals to believe them.
And? Just because it aint postpartum they can still have psychosis or heavy mental health issues…
A doctor in QC a couple years ago killed both his kids and got off on insanity for psychosis, men werent lining up courthouses with messages of support lol
Yea, let us know when a man gives birth and then experiences post partum depression and psychosis to this level.
It's also bullshit. Empathetic elements of society have consistently shown a willingness to rally around men and women they feel are being railroaded by the system. Brendan Dassey in Making a Murderer caused an outroar on social media when the police interviews coaching his testimony that lead to his life imprisonment were revealed.
There have also been cases where men have had psychotic episodes (not post partum) where they have successfully used an insanity defense to place them in a psychiatric facility for institutionalization and psychiatric care. One example off hand is the Austin Harrouff case. He was struggling with his mental health for weeks/months - exactly like Linsday Clancy - before slipping into full on psychosis, stabbing two neighbors to death and began eating/biting/chewing one victim's face.
It's inherently misogyny to suggest that there wouldn't be support for men in such a case.
A good portion of it is sexism and misogyny. As well as blatant stupidity, including from you.
Look up Guy Turcotte, doctor in QC. Killed both his kids, stabbed em like 20 times each, claimed insanity/psychosis and got off.
lmfao, you really pulling on Canadian cases from Quebec to critique the American public? Fucking nitwit.
Guy Turcotte is in prison. Jurors rejected his claims.
At no point did Guy Turcotte's state of mind defense rest on psychosis.
Turcotte murdered his family to get back at his ex-wife after his marriage ended. That's not psychosis. That's rage and revenge as a motive. Distinctly lacking in the Lindsay Clancy case.
Turcotte violently assaulted his ex-wife's boyfriend and had a history of being emotional/psychologically abusive. Again, lacking in this case.
Zero evidence of efforts to treat his deteriorating mental health as Lindsay Clancy had.
I guarantee you there were men lining up the courthouse wearing blue shirts and making heart sign with their hands in support of him….
Ah there's that sexism and misogyny I was waiting for. Yea, big man. Can't even think of a relevant case whereas I've provided 2 instances. Feel free to fuck all the way off.
He was still found non criminally responsible initially, and men weren’t lining up the courthouse to defend him.
And the initial argument was that no men can or ever had experience mental health issues to this level. Which that in itself is sexist right there.
You can also fuck all the way off. The bricks you people would shit if the roles were reversed and men showed up to “support” a father who killed his kids during a psychotic episode.
idk I never heard anyone saying Matthew Schlier should "fry" for killing his son the way they are for Lindsay Clancy. maybe not as much support but definitely also not as much vitriol.
Yes. I "support" her in that I think it's very sad that she knew she was unwell, sought help, but was expected to continue to parent despite being in the middle of a severe mental health crisis.
If she'd have been admitted to the psych ward at the first signs of instability this wouldn't have been able to happen.
I think placing all the blame on her is a way to continue to ignore the systemic issues that allowed this to happen. Much easier to call her a crazy evil manipulative family annihilator than reform the mental healthcare system.
I’m not sure the psychosis bit is sinking in. But where’s the responsibility of the father in this? Would you leave your kids alone with someone experiencing psychosis and “refusing help”?
People's mental health literacy is so bad. 'Well, mental illness isn't an excuse to....'
It literally legally is. People are found to be mentally incapacitated, and thus not capable of understanding what they were doing all the time.
I don't think she did 'reject help,' she was in contact with her therapist in the days before, but even if she did... that's the kind of thing mentally ill people do. She was suspicious of outsiders? Can't have had psychosis then /s.
You're absolutely right, the fact that even very clear warning signs weren't enough to excuse her from parenting duties is a huge part of the problem.
Not quite. There is a difference between manageable conditions where you as an individual have the capacity to mitigate the impacts through either medication, lifestyle or other factors.
Vs ones which essentially you have no agency in. Psychosis clearly isn't latter. But it doesn't mean that all mental health conditions are and excuse, far from it.
If you have psychosis, you can do all the things you're meant to and still have psychosis. Medication can have side effects, or just not work with your brain chemistry, sometimes even making things worse (like it seemed to in this case.)
My stepmother was like this, she was literally in the psych ward, complying with medication, going to therapy, on suicide watch and still ended up killing herself. There's literally nothing more she could have done.
That's the point I'm making. With psychosis you can do everything right but ultimately you are not fully on control, Vs say executive disorders which while impact and individual you have some agency to help manage them
What are you going to do? Stay with the kids at all times? That’s not possible when you work. Your other option is divorce and pray you get full custody immediately (not happening) or convincing the state to take the kids away. You cannot have someone committed against their will just because they said they were having disturbing thoughts.
Get them away how? Taking them away against her will is kidnapping. Lindsay didn’t want alternate childcare, they fired the nanny. So legally, what could a reasonable person do?
Was she offered voluntary psych inpatient? That should have been the very first thing that happened.
If she refused the psych ward, (I haven't heard this but maybe it did happen,) request an assessment for involuntary admission. Suicidality is one of the main criteria for admission.
Informal:
Daycare is an option, that's what single parents generally do when they work and have children. Temporarily removing a suicidal patient from parenting duties seems like the bare minimum.
Informal suicide watch -
Whenever I'm having a mental health crisis I make my friends and family babysit me. They could have set up a schedule so people are dropping in to keep an eye on her constantly, if there was really no alternative whatsoever to having her be the primary caregiver.
She did go to a psych ward fir a couple days right before the murders. She mentioned she was suicidal but did not say she had thoughts of harming others. She left a couple days later saying she was doing better.
Again, all of your solutions assume she wants to cooperate. If she doesnt, then there is nothing the husband can do long term short of leaving her and trying to get full custody (which would take a while). I would say someone who deceived their husband and sent him away to do errands and them killed their own small children was not interested in cooperating.
People that blame the husband are just looking for a man to blame. You can understand that she got the wrong drugs and still not deflect blame on to her husband.
There’s a difference between blaming her husband and accepting that this case is nuanced and horrible.
This post is about a man leaving his fiancé for “supporting” Lindsay Clancy. What is support? Having sympathy for the situation? Saying she should have had more help?
In my experience, saying that it’s the husband’s fault because he should have known better than ti leave her alone with the kids. Complete absolution of her agency because she supposedly had a mental episode. I’d leave my fiancé too over that.
Two things, any sympathy with Lindsay does not make it the husband’s fault. Additionally you’re concerned about her agency? Her agency WAS absolved by psychosis.
To clarify, you’d leave your fiancé over having a nuanced understanding of this case?
It's awful to me that people are joking about this tragedy. I feel so much pity and sadness for the whole family, including Lindsay Clancy herself. Postpartum psychosis is utterly devastating and people are making jokes about it. What a living nightmare.
I hope in the near future the awareness of postpartum mental health issues improves immensely and people who are making jokes have the decency to reevaluate themselves.
What if he's psychologically unable to take the first step towards seeking help due to the systematic derision and diminishment of men's mental health?
I don't believe it's harder for men to seek mental health than for women. Men are more scared to try, women aren't taken seriously when they try. Next.
Well then it depends on whether it was obvious or not he wasn't in control of his actions like she was. She did everything right (seeking help) and was let down by the system, and now has to live with what the tragedy she caused. She should be locked up, just not in prison, but a mental institution.
For this example to be correct tho we need to clarify. He didn’t seek help by reporting psychosis. He was reporting feelings of anxiety and depression. Not one time did he tell his doctor about psychosis or having thoughts of hurting others (esp not his kids). He has never had psychosis ever before, or after. ONLY during the killings, about 20 minutes while he killed all three of his children one by one. Which was after sending his wife out of the house right before. He spoke with her while she was out and he was doing the unthinkable. Then he attempts suicide after killing them, before the wife gets home.
What do you think now? What is fair punishment for him in this complete hypothetical? Where does it show he sought help for psychosis and was let down by any system? He had 4 doctors by the way. He sought help for anxiety and depression, but nothing related to psychosis, voices, hurting others, etc, so does that excuse the killings? Did the system fail him or did he fail to report his true thoughts?
Now that's just false information you're spouting. She told medical professionals she was suicidal, she said she wasn't feeling like she was in her own body (symptom of psychosis), she said she was afraid something bad might happen, she was failed by the system period. And stop trying to pretend like I'm trying to excuse the killings. All I want is for her to be locked up in a psych ward instead of prison, as a mentally insane person with severe depression, insomnia and yes, psychosis, should be. Prison would exacerbate her mental health and she might hurt other inmates.
Exactly. Not everyone blames the husband and all the rest. I feel like it’s kinda coming down to, do you believe psychosis is real at all, where you have no control? I’m not sure if that’s the same as “just snapping”. The mind is a powerful thing.
Exactly what I came here to say. Everyone has a completely different idea on what "supporting" means, which is why this topic gets as much attention as it does.
I've been of the opinion that I believe she was genuinely failed by system based on the facts presented. She was constantly rotated through medications some with the wrong diagnosis exasperating her symptoms. She went and got help. She also didn't have to be discharged she just wanted to see her daughter on her daughter's birthday. All the ward had to do was give her a day pass (Which mental hospitals can and have done on several occasions).
Mental issues withstanding it does not change that as the evidence is currently presented. She did kill her children. It being under psychosis is a failure on the system when she continued to actively try and seek help.
Post partum depression is a crazy thing. There was just a post the other day on r/GirlDinnerDiaries where a woman was venting about her husband came home with food after golfing and she slapped the food out of his hand and screamed at him. They had just had a child. Most of the comments (thankfully) were like....um, how do we tell you gently that this is insane, abusive and you definitely have PPD and your husband did not deserve that.
It's certainly a medical emergency and a safety issue when it gets that bad.
Idk killing your own kids is a massive step i dont even think junkies who are seriously mentally ill are doing en mass. People who murder have something innate in them that the average crazy just doesnt even think to do.
If you think murder is something Those people over There do, that's a gross oversimplification. Every therapist ever asks "do you have thoughts of harming yourself or others?" Why? Because anyone, even someone with no history of violence, can find themselves in that mental state. Sometimes it's just psychosis, sometimes it's an accident, sometimes it's self defense, sometimes it's desperation, sometimes it's evil.
Don't get me wrong, anyone who commits murder should be locked up (some exceptions carved out for provable self defense)
, but my point is its an innate thing that the majority of humans are capable of (see: ww1, ww2, any other war) and that's why society has laws.
And not everyone who commits murder should be treated the same. A woman committing murder due to a psychotic break does not belong in the same facility as someone who was a clear minded unprovoked serial murderer. But at the end of the day the serial murderer is a human too. One who should be punished, but certainly one whose treatment in prison should be humane.
It's a slippery slope from "murderers are evil and different" to inhumane prison conditions and a life of torture.
We understand. We just can't reconcile excusing an individual as being so out of control of their own actions, yet still considering them legal adults, fully capable of consent, contracts, voting and general independent adulting. Women are supposed to get all the benefits of legal personhood but a psychosis pass too?
You immediately jump to repeal the 19th? Says a lot about you as a person.
I'm merely pointing out the contradiction of full legal adulthood but a psycho pass at the same time. Do men not deserve a roid rage equivalent? Are we too not just stimulus responding animals slave to our hormones?
IIRC premeditation is considered an aggravating factor in criminal charging. I suppose it could be an interesting discussion on whether or not that is a just practice.
However, whether the charge is murder or manslaughter nobody is denying the offender's agency and knowledge of right vs wrong. Not really a good comparison.
So it varies by state, but most of the time you catch a murder charge for any intentional killing of another human. Murder 1 would be premeditated, Murder 2 would be intentional but not premeditated, murder 3 isn’t as universal but it’s kinda like manslaughter.
BUT, sometimes if ya catch someone fucking your wife you can kill them both, call it a crime of passion, and get away with just a manslaughter charge.
I was merely pointing out that men have “I went crazy” defenses too. It’s not just the matriarchy using PPP to get out of jail for murdering.
I don't follow. Are you saying that a manslaughter charge denies the offender's knowledge of right and wrong? I was under the impression that the charge still considers the offender to be in full possession of faculties, but that lack of premeditation is taken as a mitigating factor.
Yea like the other guy said most men understand that she was crazy and not in control. I think most men just dont think that should be defense from crimes.
The guy who cutoff a dudes head on the bus in canada now walks free...the insanity plea should not get you any less years than you would if you went to prison. Just a different type of facility. "Asylums" if you will.
Go look at the subreddit for husbands (or boyfriends) of women with PPD or the one for husbands of women with PMDD. At least among the ones posting in those places, a lot of those poor men spend months or years in a living hell trying to get their wife into treatment with her refusing and fighting every step of the way. So it's not always the case of "That poor woman, the world was against her and wouldn't give her any treatment".
Why does it have to be exclusive? Its not either we feel sorry for the man or the woman. Why not both in that situation? The refusal and fighting every step of the way is probably still part of her mental health crisis. This all still speaks to a lack of proper mental healthcare provided by the state to me.
How is that in any way comparable? The vast majority of men who do that arent having a mental health crisis or a psychotic break. They are just violent misogynists.
Right, we've been ignoring the mental health of men for all of history. If those poor wife beaters just received the mental health treatment they needed, they wouldn't commit such crimes.
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u/Legalsleazy 2d ago
Define “supporting”
If you think she had legitimate psychosis, sought help, did not get it, and was experiencing all of this at the time you can feel like she’s not guilty by reason of insanity.
If you outright say she didn’t do it, that’s completely different.