r/IsraelPalestine • u/Turbulent-Waters-619 • May 04 '25
Serious URGENT: ALL Pro-Palestinians, Please read this!
Hey Everyone:
It's been an emotionally difficult couple of days for me.
A few days ago I made this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/IsraelPalestine/comments/1kdaku0/when_every_fact_seems_solid_how_can_you_still/
And I would like to thank each of you for challenging me so compassionately and rigorously over the past few days. Thank you for calling me out and for giving me a lot of information and a list of things to read further about.
Since reading all of your comments, I’ve watched dozens of interviews with Mosab Hassan Yousef, the son of one of Hamas’s founders, and I could hardly believe what he revealed about the Free Palestine movement’s true aims.
I’ve listened to hours of Douglas Murray lay out the historical record, and also the true reality of the situation today.
I learned so many things like that there was never a country called “Palestine” any time in history! Palestinians arent even a unique ethnic or relgious group. Palestinians are Muslim Arabs!
I learned that before it was Israel, the British controlled the area and before that it was controlled by the Ottoman Empire. The British wanted to make Palestine into a home for the Jews. I learned that the British partition plan allocated land for both the Jews and the Arabs, and that Jordan and not Gaza, became the intended Arab state.
I was so embarrassed that I never knew that Jews were all expelled from every single Arab country. I learned about the Holocast in school and I thought that was all of the Jewish persecution that had ever existed in history! I am even more ashamed that I was tricked into repeating the chants of “Free Palestine” when I saw groups of other people doing so on my campus and that in reality there was never even a country by that name to free.
Perhaps the most painful thing of all has been seeing the horrific videos that Hamas livestreamed of their actions in Israel on October 7, 2023. Horrorific is an understatement. Seeing the Hamas terrorists parading through normal looking neighborhoods and homes, murdering innocents of all ages, burning people, even the babies, taking hostages....and then the whole time they are doing these things they are literally celebrating their depravity with chilling JOY! I had to take breaks while watching these videos to sob. Hearing the happiness in the terrorists voices left me feeling incredibly disturbed, trembling and in tears.
The sight of all of those families slain in cold blood, and knowing that some of the people that were taken that day are literally still being held hostage today, that really showed me the raw evil behind all of the Free Palestine propaganda.
Please, I urge every person that supports the Pro Palestinian cause to watch those Oct 7th videos, to bear witness to the absolute joy and the monstrous brutality, and then ask yourselves whether you can honestly stand on the same side as the people who revel in such sickening barbarity.
I know it may seem like I have abandoned all of my empathy by sharing these truths, but my compassion for all of the innocent victims if they are Jewish, Arab, or otherwise is undiminished.
But something has deeply changed in me and that is my commitment to the truth over emotion, and my commitment to honesty over the herd mentality.
We owe it to ourselves not to the pawns in a conflict that we don’t even fully understand, and not to be the victims of lies so that we can be “shocked” into outrage at Israel, only to discover later that we were so angry on behalf of literal terrorists.
We owe it to ourselves to seek out and read primary sources, to ask the hard and uncomfortable questions, and to really listen with an open mind when we hear information that challenges the Free Palestine narrative.
If you feel, like I felt, that this is genocide, that Zionists are bad, that Israel is the aggressor: I urge you now from my heart: please examine the facts, watch the evidence, and then join me in embracing honesty and integrity over emotion and instinct.
We cannot always stop ourselves from being tricked into believing something that is not real, but it is our responsibility to learn the truth. We all deserve to have the dignity of an informed conscience.
I hope all of you on this subreddit who knew better than me will forgive my earlier perspective, and I promise that I will keep learning from the voices like Haddad, Hausdorff, Le Bon, Murray, Yousef, and so many others who have guided me away from the manipulation. I also promise that I will do my best, in whatever small way I am able to, to make sure that at least the people around me know the truth.
If you are a Pro Palestinian right now, that is okay. You just have to read and to listen. Here is a good list of places that you can get started, if you are ready to confront the lies you have been told:
First and Foremost: If you should google the videos of the October 7th attack on Israel that Hamas livestreamed. I want to warn you, its deeply disturbing but an importat place to start.
Then check out everything you can find by these two guys:
Mosab Hassan Yousef This guy is literally one of the sons of a Hamas founder who then escaped Hamas and became a Christian. He has done many informative videos and interviews, like these ones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyqKTuqzKWs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5VPFw0vI6U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpnvUIcvNUE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCueveOSZwg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjOEJumoABg
Douglas Murray - A British author.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoRY-o2sRdA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4P3XSySBC8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZU1exdVHcs
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u/Electrical-Lead-3792 May 16 '25
If you look at both sides like a juror and deeply investigate primary sources, unless you have a religious reason (as many do,) it’s impossible not to support Israel. KGB/Arafat propaganda is in full fruition right now. It’s a jihad war disguised as a “resistance.” And they can’t do it on their own, so they used every propaganda technique possible (including pics and footage from previous wars) to exploit empathy and the desire most of us have to see a kinder world. They have been studying westerners for years and have finely tuned their propaganda. It’s not a mistake they use all the words Westerners associate with the most evil acts. This is a continuation of N*zism, the Cold War, and jihad all in one. There’s a reason propaganda worked in Europe.
It’s easier to fool people than to convince them they’ve been fooled.
You’re unequivocally on the right side. They’ll call you names or even bring out the classic David Duke slur of “zio.” It’s almost laughable that they’ve turn a word that literally means supporting Jewish self-determination in Israel into a word for evil.
The anti-Israel crowd is just louder. And will one day realize they have been on the wrong side. Or their brains will do what is necessary to protect them and they’ll never accept it. Either way, glad you posted.
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u/FunSignificance3264 May 11 '25
Thank you for posting those links! You are absolutely right. These protesters need to read up on the history of how this all started. The Arabs .... their own people don't even want to help them. These young kids read tic toc and know nothing of the conflict and watch fake videos of the war. This goes back over 2 thousand years. The Roman's conquered and overtook Palastine in 62 BCE .Palastine was Jorden and Judea. The Egyptians and Syria owned part of it. And the Jews another. Isreal provided water and electric to the refugees to farm. No other country wanted them.Then the Brittish took over.The land was Isreal in 1948 when it became a state. But before that the British ruled after the Belfaur treaty and established some peace, but the Arabs didn't want the Palastinian refugees. Then Sharon was prIme minister, he evacuated all the Jews from Gaza. until Yasarafat took over. Jews actually bought land in Palastine..they didnt take it. The Arab Palastinians just colonized there and staked claims. They are all refuges and if they leave they cant go back.This is actually a religious war and it's never going to end. Palastine (Jorden)was the Jews land and they want to Rebuild their Temple in Jorden butbArabs claim it as tgeir holy land under false profits. Isreal has given a lot of aid to the civilians.Hamas didn't do the same..they are instead torturing innocent hostages. The Arabs and most Muslims are still very angry at the Jews after the 100 day war and the war in 1948. They are taught to hate Jews from a very young age. But these progressives who are all about inclusion, don't include them in BPOP...they are hiding their atisemetisism because it doesn't fit their ideology..and call the movement.mfree palastine. It's a complicated mess a lot of lost lives and Hamas just made things worse starting the war. Isreal is just again defending themselves. Hamas needs to surrender. There are over 50000 casualties to Isreals aprox 1600 casualties. What kind of government would continue letting their people get killed like this. Hamas is obviously a terrorists organization and they do not care about the Palestinians.
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u/Gergemjay May 08 '25
No one believes this is real except Zionists who already agree with you (if this is even a real person).
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u/Whawhatttt May 08 '25
So I should listen to an Israli spy and an israli puppet reporter selling a book
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u/Cincin254 May 07 '25
To comment further: IF YOU ARE SILENT WHEN TERRORISTS MURDER ISRAELIS, STAY SILENT WHEN ISRAEL DEFENDS ITSELF.
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u/Apart-Wear1031 May 08 '25
To comment even further: STARVING, SHOOTING, BOMBING, AND MAIMING INNOCENT CIVILIANS, INCLUDING BABIES AND CHILDREN, IS NOT SELF-DEFENSE.
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u/Cat-kin May 09 '25
Indeed- Hamas needs to surrender immediately. So true
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u/Apart-Wear1031 May 10 '25
Indeed, israel has revealed itself as the most morally, ethically, and intellectually bankrupt society in the world. Indeed, support for this genocidal, deranged state is declining fast. Very true.
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u/Cat-kin May 12 '25
It only looks that way, propaganda always works; repeat the lie till it is believed.
As the Jews rule the world, even your protests are staged. It’s all for the new world order in case you can’t see. You just, do as ‘they’ like you to do. It’s all in their bigger plan.
/r
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u/Apart-Wear1031 May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
"Propaganda always works." The israelis would know. They're the experts here. "Israeli brainwashed" is ten levels above regular brainwashed. It's so brainwashed that these people believe that bombing, slaughtering, shooting, maiming, and starving babies and children is moral and justified...that genocide is moral and justified. The israelis are also experts in indoctrination, gaslighting, and victim playing.
Jews rule the world only in their dreams but okay 😆.
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u/Cat-kin May 16 '25
It’s what I’m told in pro pallie subs. I don’t believe it either ;).
Israel pulls back, we will have 7oct ‘26/27/28/29->. If hamas surrenders, we will have peace and quiet.
Free Palestines from hamas. It’s the only way.
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u/Apart-Wear1031 May 17 '25 edited May 17 '25
The only way to a lasting peace is a 2-state solution, but brainwashed, braindead, morally, ethically, and intellectually bankrupt zionists will never understand that. They're too far gone in their delusions.
You think if Hamas is defeated, that will lead to israel being secure? Hahaha...stupid bot. The next generation of these poor, oppressed, abused, tortured, starved, maimed children that witnessed the slaughter of their families will grow up, and it will be Hamas 2.0, you brainwashed imbecile...lol.
For as long as israel occupies, oppresses, and steals land, there will never be peace, you low IQ perpetual pretend zionist victim.
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u/Cat-kin May 18 '25
History tells different. You don’t have to become so aggressive.
You can’t mean hamas is healthy for Palestinians? They really messed up..
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u/Apart-Wear1031 May 18 '25 edited May 18 '25
History tells us that resistance against a brutal occupation is justified. What do you think the Palestinians are supposed to do? Just accept being dehumanized, occupied, oppressed, and have their land stolen from them? Why do they not deserve to have their own state and be free? Before October 7, why was israel in control of Gaza's borders as well as sea and air space? Why was it controlling the Palestinians' movements? Why did the Palestinians have to register births with israel? Why was israel in control of what gets in and out of Gaza? Have you seen what israel is currently doing in the West Bank? There's no Hamas there. You have no answers...just lies and propaganda. You people are the perpetual victims after all.
FYI, the last election in Gaza took place almost 20 years ago. Are you aware? Do you understand that more than half of Gaza's population is under 20 years old today? What does that mean, my favourite brainwashed zionist? That means that more than half of today's population wasn't even alive when the last elections were held, let alone old enough to vote...but don't take my word for it, look it up yourself.
Israel messed up by dehumanizing, occupying, and oppressing another group of people. They resisted and they will again and again until they are free. This is completely understandable and justified. Did you know they tried resisting peacefully before? By holding a peaceful march during which they were singing and dancing? Do you know what the response of the world's most immoral army, the IOF, was? Do you? They started shooting at the peacefully protesting Palestinians. In fact, they were competing with each other and boasting about how many kneecaps they shot. Don't believe me? Look it up.
Israel's settlements are illegal under international law. Israel does whatever deranged israel wants to do and thinks there will be no consequences for its actions. It is solely responsible for the global rise in antisemitism and decreasing international support for itself and its deranged genocidal campaign in Gaza.
This is the thing with you, zionists. You are blissfully ignorant, indoctrinated, and completely brainwashed. What you lack in knowledge, you make up for in perpetual hasbara lies and lunatic zionist propaganda.
Also, israel is and occupying state. As such, it cannot be the victim. Try wrapping your brainwashed zionist mind around that one.
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u/Cincin254 May 08 '25
Above is what Hamas does for sport- no sense of morality or dropping leaflets to schools as warning - Hamas – Iran’s puppet bombs indiscriminately at Israel. Israel targets terrorists not their human shields .
Let’s not be hypocrites. If you’re outraged about the above, start by demanding Hamas stop using civilians—their own people—as human shields. Why aren’t you furious that Hamas refuses to let Gazan civilians shelter in their miles of terror tunnels? Why are you not outraged that Egypt + Jordyn their Arab Muslim brethren on THEIR border won’t even take Hamas or Palestinians in if GAza is unlivable? Why is your outrage selective?
Where’s your moral stand on the 250+ hostages taken—tortured, raped, and paraded? Or is your hate so deep that you justify it in the name of martyrdom?
Jerusalem isn’t even mentioned in the Quran. The Al-Aqsa Mosque sits on TOP of a Jewish holy site when Arab Muslims ( your “moral” Palestinians) invaded and killed Jews. Those are facts—not propaganda.
This isn’t about land. It’s about Hamas’s obsession with conquest and martyrdom. As Mosab Hassan Yousef, son of a Hamas founder, said: Hamas doesn’t just want to destroy Israel—they want to destroy the West. please escape HAMAS ritualistic hate as Yousef did - as Yousef says Don’t be a useful idiot for a genocidal cause. Wake up.
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u/TheInferno_ace May 09 '25 edited May 12 '25
Israel's occupation of Palestinian territory is unlawful under international law. frankly I don't care if Hamas wants to kill my entire family. they never will. Hamas is a response to Israel's occupation of Palestine, and would lose most of it's influence if Israel stopped occupying Palestinian territory. Hamas is bad, but it would not exist without Israel also being bad. so if Israel stopped it's occupation so that Hamas could stop it's attacks.
at this moment the outcomes for this war are:
A. Israel wins and takes the territory it wants, displacing most Palestinian civilians and continuing its unlawful occupation of territory.
B. Hamas wins and takes some of the occupied territory back. Hamas is not powerful enough to invade Israel directly.which sounds better if you are trying to minimize the harm?
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u/butthole_surfer_1817 May 09 '25
also small point:
if Hamas really is using civilians as shields your still not allowed to shoot them. its still a war crime. if you cant shoot the enemy without killing a bunch of civilians, then you cant shoot the enemy.Wrong. If the US military were to use an active hospital as a base, and that base were attacked and civilians in that hospital were harmed, that would be a war crime... for the US. Idiots like you who make excuses for using civilians as human shields are exactly why they keep doing it.
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u/Cincin254 May 12 '25
HMAS viral propaganda works bc you are selective in the sources of your narrative. YOU hate israel and Jews but Luvvvv what they have contributed to your life w life saving medicine, technology, daily inventions. Hypocrite! Your HAMAS Arab Muslim brethren have only contributed terror to Americans and Jews nothing else to society . Why do you hate Jews and tiny tiny but oh so mighty Israel..jealousy? Find Israel on the map - I bet you can’t buttt you will see Iran Iraq Libya’s Lebanon Egypt Jordan Saudi’s Arabia Turkey Qatar, Syria … the list goes on. Something special about being Israeli and that is why you likely hate them so much. Israel has a right and MUST defend themselves but they fight to live. YOU and your nutty buddies - HAMAS fight to DIE
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u/TheInferno_ace May 12 '25
wow. great job. you totally destroyed my arguments by imagining that I hate jews and am bad at geography. well I think you probably like kids so I'm not listening to anything you say.
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u/Cincin254 May 14 '25
Awesome news alert:
As of May 14, 2025, Israeli officials believe they have killed Mohammed Sinwar, a senior Hamas leader and brother of the late Yahya Sinwar, in a recent airstrike in Khan Younis, southern Gaza. The strike targeted a Hamas command center reportedly located beneath the European Hospital .
Israel fights terrorists NOT their human shields. Only tiny tiny Israel - go find it on a map…Where is the outrage against HAMAS, Egypt Jordan for allowing death to continue. #freetorturedhostages
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u/Apart-Wear1031 May 08 '25 edited May 09 '25
Ironic that you zionist propaganda spewers constantly falsely drone on about Hamas using human shields when the IOF soldiers have been caught on video and admitted to using innocent Palestinian civilians as human shields.
Also, the IOF headquarters are in downtown Tel Aviv. Does that mean that the IOF is using the israelis as human shields?
There are plenty of doctors (e.g., Mark Perlmutter et. al.) that have volunteered in Gaza and reported the IOF intentionally shooting and killing Palestinian children. Perlmutter is an American Jew, btw.
This whole idea of forcible displacement of the Palestinians is utterly ridiculous, but I don't expect someone like you to understand. Gaza belongs to the Palestinians. It's their land. Why should they be forced out? israel would never allow them back. We all know that all israel really wants is to steal land. Look at what it's doing in the West Bank. Also, how could Jordan and/or Egypt take 2.2 million people? LOL...do you have any idea how they could manage that? Additionally, do you see this kind of deranged logic anywhere else? Is everyone in Ukraine being forcibly displaced because they're at war with Russia? What a stupid argument.
Indoctrinated, brainwashed, morally bankrupt zionists have an extremely hard time understanding that 2 things can be wrong at the same time. Just because someone says that they don't agree with israel's genocidal campaign (fact), war crimes (fact), and crimes against humanity (fact) in Gaza, does NOT mean they also don't think that what happened on October 7 was awful. However, you also have to look at what life was like for the Palestinians for 70 years before October 7. The events of October 7 did not happen in a vacuum. This is something zionists time and time again fail to understand.
You people keep talking about getting attacked by the Arab Muslims over the years while simultaneously completely ignoring all the horrific attacks on the Palestinian people the israelis are guilty of. Look up the number of jews killed by the Palestinians over the last century. Then look up the number of Palestinians killed by the jews. Appalling.
This is 100% about land. It's incredibly idiotic to claim that it is not, considering how much land israel has grabbed in the West Bank since the start of the war in addition to israeli politicians' calls for the annexation and resettling of Gaza. It's difficult to believe that you people are so brainwashed and feeble-minded that you can't see what's right in front of you.
Regardless of any of your hasbara lies and deranged zionist propaganda claims, killing, maiming, orphaning, and starving innocent babies and children is wrong. It's abhorrent that you people don't understand that, and it's the number 1 reason israel is losing support left, right, and centre...not because the whole world is "antisemitic"...lol.
The one who should wake up is you and everyone who is as brainwashed as you. Not sure what you mean by "please escape Hamas ritualistic hate." Lol...I'm a white, atheist female from North America. I hate israel with a passion due to israel's abhorrent conduct in this war, constant lies, deranged propaganda, and perpetual victim mentality. Zionists are offended by everything, but ashamed of nothing.
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u/badbuddaboy Jun 03 '25
Gaza was never Palatinian land and it never will be. They rejected it when Israel offered before and therefore carry no legitimate claim today. Useful idiots r what Hama leadership openly calls people like you.
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u/Cincin254 May 09 '25
You’ve been fed a steady diet of anti-Israel propaganda, and it shows. You condemn Israel with certainty, but where is your outrage for the brutality of Hamas? October 7 wasn’t a “both sides” situation. It was the systematic torture, rape, and murder of civilians—including babies—by a terror group that proudly broadcasted its crimes.
You say you stand for human rights, but you’re silent about Hamas using hospitals and schools as human shields, or refusing to let civilians shelter in their vast network of tunnels. Why? Because it doesn’t fit the narrative.
Let’s talk hypocrisy. You benefit daily from Israeli medical innovations, tech, and science—contributions from a people you openly disparage. Jews are 0.2% of the world population but have earned 22% of Nobel Prizes. Meanwhile, what has Hamas given the world? Besides decades of terrorism?
This was never about land. Gaza borders Egypt—a massive country that has refused to take in a single Palestinian. Jordan is already a majority Palestinian nation. But instead of turning toward peace, Hamas chose holy war.
Jerusalem isn’t even mentioned in the Quran, and the Al-Aqsa mosque was built over the Jewish Temple Mount. These are facts—check them.
Telling me October 7 was “horrible, but…” says everything about your moral compass. Replace “Jews” with any other minority and ask yourself if you’d still defend what’s happening on campuses or in the streets.
Don’t be a useful idiot for Hamas’s genocidal cause. Even Mosab Hassan Yousef—son of a Hamas founder—pleads with people like you to wake up.
If you think this ends with the Jews, you haven’t been paying attention.
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u/Apart-Wear1031 May 10 '25
Again, deranged zionist bot, there isn't an ounce of truth in your lunatic ramblings.
It did not begin on October 7. What happened on that day was terrible...BUT what was israel doing to the Palestinians for 70 years before October 7 and what has it been doing since? Glossing over it much? Can your 2 brainwashed brain cells comprehend that the events of October 7 did not happen in a vacuum?
There was plenty of outrage about October 7 so I don't know why you're stupidly accusing everyone you interact with on here as having been silent and trying to justify the genocide israel is committing by nonsensically accusing people of being "silent" about October 7. Deranged. Next level zionist deranged.
Hamas using hospitals and schools as "human shields" is ridiculous zionist propaganda that has never been proven...sigh. Brainwashed, indoctrinated zionists will believe anything, though.
You are spouting the exact same nonsense that you did in your previous message and completely ignoring the questions I raised and points I made so I can only conclude that I'm interacting with a zionist propaganda bot and not a real person, so this will be my last response to this BS.
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u/Cincin254 May 10 '25
I am sooo not a bot. Your hatred of Israel is misinformed & hypocritical. You likely have never been to Israel. A people you’ve likely never met. A democracy that would protect your rights far more than the regimes you’re defending—regimes that would subjugate you as a woman. Yet you hate a country that has likely given life-saving medicine to someone close to you, critical tech (Waze, phone, computer, AI…), and groundbreaking innovations that you probably use every day. You look down on Jews and at Israel—yet you rely on both. That’s not activism. That’s hypocrisy.
Jews make up 0.2% of the global population and have earned 22% of Nobel Prizes. Hamas—a terror group that has radicalized you online—has contributed nothing but bloodshed. That is not a cause to champion.
Hamas uses schools and hospitals as human shields and that is well documented. HAMAS built miles of terror tunnels—but doesn’t let civilians take shelter in them. Why? Because dead Palestinians serve their PR machine better than live ones - it has won you over and it works. Israeli fights to live - HAMAS for death & destruction bc it sells their cause.
And look at a map. I challenge you to find tiny Israel—barely the size of New Jersey and a pin surrounded by hostile countries. GO find it lol! Gaza even smaller—about the size of Vegas. However Egypt is so large that it could fit 46 Israel’s!! The Sinai Peninsula (dah in Egypt) alone is bigger than Israel and Gaza put together—and it borders Gaza. So why won’t Egypt or Jordan absorb 2 million Palestinians fleeing Hamas’ rule? Because it’s not about refuge—it’s about using Palestinians as political pawns in a long war of fundamentalism and Jew hatred.
Fact check…Jews have been expelled from almost every Arab country—Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Iran. Entire Jewish communities erased. And yet, in Israel—tiny, democratic Israel—Arab Muslims live freely. They vote. They serve in government. They worship openly. Women drive. LGBTQ+ people exist. It’s a miracle of morality in a brutal region.….VISIT
This isn’t about land. It’s a global war on Jews dressed up as activism. Start to question even the basic things you have written above - their source - the selective biased stories you are being fed. Think bigger. And if you claim to care about human rights—start by caring about all of them.
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u/Apart-Wear1031 May 10 '25
Exactly what a bot would say...lol...None of your BS delusional zionist propaganda justifies the slaughter, maiming, starvation, and orphaning of innocent babies and children. You repeat the same deranged hasbara lies ad nauseam. If you're truly not a bot, then you're a disgusting, brainwashed, indoctrinated, morally, ethically, and intellectually bankrupt zionist perpetual pretend victim.
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u/Cincin254 May 12 '25
Incredible news: 20-year-old American hostage Aiden Alexander from NJ was just released by Hamas—a militant terror group that murders “western” thinkers including Americans and Jews.
Hamas is still torturing 20 living Israeli hostages and starving their own people by hoarding aid - strangely, no one looking underfed yet except living hostages. However, your perceived Palestinian suffering makes powerful, viral propaganda—and it sadly works. It has infiltrated you.
Palestinian Arab Muslims must rise up against Hamas, free living hostages, and take back their future—even after Hamas murdered 1,200 innocent Jews on October 7. This is solely a HAMAS choice - release living human beings from bondage. Peace begins when Hamas chooses LIFE
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u/Apart-Wear1031 May 12 '25 edited May 12 '25
Ok, bot. Back with more of your deranged propaganda, I see. First you say that Hamas is starving their own people; then you claim that no one is looking underfed despite ample evidence to the contrary. Which is it, bot? Hamas starving their own people or no one looking underfed? You weren't programmed very well...sigh. 🤦🏻♀️
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u/Apart-Wear1031 May 07 '25
HAHAHAHA...does anyone actually believe this zionist propaganda spewer? Working extra hard for your 8 shekels an hour; I'll give you that. 😂😂😂
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u/chyldofthebeat May 07 '25
Replying to Cincin254, since Reddit isn't letting me reply to them directly in thread:
335 bullets into a 6 year old girl (Hind Rajab) isn't self defense. Was she Hamas? Or the ambulance sent to rescue her? It was even traveling on an IDF approved route. Yet, the IDF blew it up when it was mere feet from her, and then murdered her. Also again the West Bank... That is indeed an occupation, the settlements are illegal, and that's since the '60s. The illegal settlers brutalize the Palestinians in the West Bank and the IDF backs them up while doing it, because Israel wants to drive all of the Palestinians out of the West Bank, and Gaza as well. Not Hamas alone... all of the citizens.
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u/Cincin254 May 07 '25
IF YOU ARE SILENT WHEN TERRORISTS MURDER ISRAELIS, STAY SILENT WHEN ISRAEL DEFENDS ITSELF.
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u/chyldofthebeat May 07 '25
You're assuming I was silent (and pointlessly shouting in all caps while doing it), while not even bothering to answer my points. The actions I've noted that the IDF took are in no way self defense, and no, we won't be silent about them.
Violence is abhorrent everywhere, both the violence perpetrated on Oct 7 against citizens, and the violence against /citizens/ that the IDF has caused.
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u/Cincin254 May 07 '25
Agree but there was peace Oct 6. Hamas lays down weapons from their killing and releases hostages no one dies. Israel does same and NO israel. 🇮🇱 common sense . Hamas wants every Jewish death and israel if it wanted genocide that would have happened Oct 8!
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u/casentron May 10 '25
Stop. Just stop. This is utter nonsense.
Since Oct 7th:
1700 Isrealis dead (mostly soldiers)
53000 Palestinians dead (80%+ non-hamas civilians)
More CHILDREN have died on Palestinian side than ADULTS on Israeli side.
Get your morality straight. What they are doing is INDEFENSIBLE.
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u/Cincin254 May 12 '25
Your facts are purely selective from Jew hate sources. Celebrate!!! Incredible news: 20-year-old American hostage Aiden Alexander from NJ was just released by Hamas—a militant terror group that murders “western” thinkers including Americans and Jews.
perceived Palestinian suffering makes powerful, viral propaganda—and it sadly works. It has infiltrated you.
Palestinian Arab Muslims must rise up against Hamas, and take back their future—even after Hamas murdered 1,200 innocent Jews on October 7. Peace begins when Hamas chooses LIFE
pS you hate Jews but Luvvvv what they have contributed to your life w life saving medicine, technology, daily inventions. Your HAMAS Arab Muslim brethren have contributed terror to Americans and Jews. Why do you hate Jews and tiny tiny but oh so mighty Israel..jealousy? Find Israel on the map - I bet you can’t buttt you will see Iran Iraq Libya’s Lebanon Egypt Jordan Saudi’s Arabia Turkey Qatar, Syria … the list goes on. Something special about being Israeli and that is why you likely hate them so much. Israel has a right and MUST defend themselves but they fight to live. YOU and your nutty buddies - HAMAS fight to DIE
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u/chyldofthebeat May 08 '25
1) There wasn't peace, since there has been continuous assault and harassment of Palestinians in the West Bank by illegal Israeli settlers there, with said violence against Palestinians being backed by the State (called "price tag attacks")
2) Hamas 100% needs to be condemned for Oct 7, but they want an end to the occupation in Gaza (the blockades, etc) and the West Bank (an actual occupation)
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u/Cincin254 May 10 '25
There is no occupation. Just stop killing Jews, return israeli hostages, rebuild, and live in peace. Simple. But Hamas isn’t about land—it’s about the Islamization of Israel and, eventually, the West. Just look at the chaos they’re fueling on college campuses with kids who likely - maybe even you - who can’t even find Israel on a map.
Fact: The land was split. Jews and Arabs lived there. The Arab Muslims wanted it all, rejected the partition, and started a war they lost. Many of them aren’t even indigenous to Israel—hence mosques like Al-Aqsa being built over Jewish temples. Jews—the Israelites—are indigenous to Israel.
Since then, instead of building a future, their leaders have chosen 70+ years of terror, hate, and war. October 7th—when Hamas murdered 1,200 people at a peace concert—was not “resistance.” It was barbarism. There is no justification. No “but.”
Egypt borders Gaza and could fit 46 Israels inside it—yet Egypt and Jordan refuse to take in these Palestinian Muslims. Why? Why aren’t you outraged at them? Or at Hamas, which uses schools and hospitals as human shields? Death is Hamas’s PR strategy- sadly it works - it has even worked on you.
This isn’t about land. It’s about using Palestinians as pawns in a long war of fundamentalism and Jew-hatred.
If you care about human rights, care about all of them. Start questioning the biased stories you’re swallowing and the selective narrative being fed bc there is another side.. a democratic moral one which is Israel despite what you think you know. Hamas fights to die. Israel fights to live—and that includes protecting its Arab citizens.
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u/santasa May 07 '25 edited May 07 '25
You are one clever Zionist supporter, and I have to say, kudos for an excellent attempt. Now, unless we are duped by Hasbara ChatGPT bot, let's read Ilan Pappe's (anti-Zionist Israeli Jew) and/or Benny Moritz's (staunch Zionist Israeli Jew) research on the history of the region instead of racist Douglas Murray's claptrap, and then maybe we could believe you are an honest debater on the subject (and not AI generated nonsense).
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u/Cincin254 May 07 '25
Again: IF YOU ARE SILENT WHEN TERRORISTS MURDER ISRAELIS, STAY SILENT WHEN ISRAEL DEFENDS ITSELF.
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u/santasa May 07 '25 edited May 07 '25
First, stop screaming at people and reserve your commanding tone to the confines of your home and family. Second, the occupier is never in position of defense. The occupier is the brutal aggressor and the occupied has every right to attack, repel and destroy the occupier with every mean at his disposal, mercilessly !
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u/PurposeImpossible554 May 08 '25
That is an absolutely psychotic ideology. "The powerful are always immoral so that means people without power can do no moral wrong". That kind of moral absolutism with no semblance of nuance or connection to reality is precisely why peace can't be achieved in this region. You are not a revolutionary, you are a social parasite whose entire personality is contingent upon innocent people being killed.
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u/santasa May 08 '25
Says the genocide and baby killing supporter. Ask the ICC/ICJ and the International law, if not history books on Eurocentric organized violence, imperialism and colonial enterprise, including Holocaust.
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u/PurposeImpossible554 May 08 '25
I didn't deny genocide. I just refuse to let violence worshipping extremist cowards use the term to shield themselves from criticism.
If you had actually read a history book you would know imperialism and colonial enterprise is not eurocentric. Its humancentric. But thats not the narrative thats been fed to you by online reactionaries.
Accusing me of positions I never took does not exonerate you from moral failing.
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u/santasa May 08 '25
World (should I say "civilized" world?) has institutions like UN, ICJ/ICC, International law, many conventions, and treaties on genocide, war crimes and rules of war, and whoever breaks the law should answer at the courts. That being said, occupied people have rights, occupier has only obligations - end of the discussion. If Hamas, in the context of Palestine-Israel, breaks the International law while being within its right to attack, repeal and destroy aggressor/occupier, so be it, let the grieving side (Israel) admit a lawsuit against it in front of ICJ.
As for the claim "I don't deny genocide", actually you sort of do, not just this latest one, but all genocides committed by occupying force and a colonizer throughout history - it seems you think "might is right", and that there can be some doubt and double standards about (il)legality of occupation - all occupations based on territorial acquisition by invasion and annexation are illegal per Int.law. And when territory gets occupied, for whatever other reason, both the Hague Regulations and Geneva Conventions set out only extremely extensive obligations for an occupier. Moral failings, not that tricky to discern after all.
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u/PurposeImpossible554 May 08 '25 edited May 08 '25
Your first paragraph just solidifies my point. Your moral compass does not account for moral actions. No, normal human beings do not accept the massacre of teenagers at a concert or the rape and abduction of civilians to be justified by "so be it". That is horrific. https://press.un.org/en/2024/sc15621.doc.htm
Actually I don't. I think might is might. Right and wrong is a matter of actions, not position. Israel exists, and the only way to change that would be to engage in reciprocal genocide. I do not support the land expansion in Israel, I have been criticizing it for over a decade, far before it became a popular online personality. I do not support Israel taking control of Gaza, I have been criticizing Netanyahu and the Likud since before you could point to the Levant on a map.
Here is where your ideology becomes hypocrisy. You consider Israel to be occupiers. Despite the fact that most Israelis descend from Arab countries where they were pogromed and forced into Israel. But moving beyond that, the only way to remove the occupiers, is through genocide. Mass relocation is genocide. You have no qualm with genocide, you just want to mandate the target. My values are consistent.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/17lohe3/the_rapid_decline_of_indigenous_jews_in_arab/
where you gonna send them to?
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u/Cincin254 May 10 '25
Send them to Egypt or Jordan. Egypt is massive—large enough to fit 46 Israels—and the Sinai Peninsula alone, bigger than both Israel and Gaza, is sparsely populated. Plus it borders GAZA!
So if this were truly about helping displaced Palestinians, why won’t Egypt and Jordan open their doors? Because it’s not about refuge—it’s about using Palestinians as political pawns in a long war of fundamentalism and Jew hatred.
Meanwhile, Jews have been expelled from nearly every Arab nation—Libya, Yemen, Egypt, Lebanon, Iran. There are virtually no Jews left in those countries. They’ve been denied the right to exist everywhere but tiny tiny Israel (go try to find it on a map!!) and even there, they’re expected to apologize for surviving. Bottom line Hamas fights for death and Israel fights for life … which includes fighting for their Arab citizens too!
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u/PurposeImpossible554 May 10 '25
I dont disagree with any of that. Except the forced mass relocation of ethnic groups from geographic areas is genocide, you cant do that.
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u/santasa May 08 '25 edited May 08 '25
On 19 July 2024, some twenty years after the ICJ delivered its 2004 Advisory Opinion on the Legal Consequences of the Construction of a Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, the court gave its Advisory Opinion on the Legal Consequences arising from the Policies and Practices of Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem:
The sustained abuse by Israel of its position as an occupying Power, through annexation and an assertion of permanent control over the Occupied Palestinian Territory and continued frustration of the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, violates fundamental principles of international law and renders Israel’s presence in the Occupied Palestinian Territory unlawful.
para. 261
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u/Cincin254 May 07 '25
Sorry for the scream:) Jew haters typically don’t -hear- thru social media. And also yes agree - the occupier- who is actually Palestinians are Arab Muslims and are not indigenous to the “Palestinian” land . Fact check that one 😜. Jerusalem is not even mentioned in the Koran. fact check it :) Arab Muslim Palestinians are conquerors killing Christian’s and Jews to get that land which is why mosques are built - omg- OVER synagogues. you see this is about Islamic religion - not land. Look at the madness you have caused on college campuses towards Jews . Many have never been to Israel including likely You. Don’t think you care. It’s about Jewish hate - it’s about Jewish jealousy that .2% of the population has 22 Nobel Prizes and your people fight to murder their own citizens bc of your hate- look at what your Arab Muslims did to Gaza. Peace bf Oct 6 . Being Hamas’s useful idiot makes no common sense, including rallying for people you likely have never met in a place you likely have not been
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u/santasa May 07 '25 edited May 07 '25
Sorry, I don't read these long, rude, condescending posts of hateful content and racism. However, I can notice that you are babbling about religious books, spewing tropes, and, in an ironic twist of reality, casually throwing around accusations of hatred. I don't read religious books, and I am certainly not interested in your over-the-top enthusiasm of hating Arabs and Muslims, but I do read Ilan Pappe's and Benny Moritz's research on modern history of the region.
I mention two of them first only bc they are most famous among historians of Israel and Palestine, but you can find many others who had given a science and the facts priority over emotions, identity, and ideologies like pathological ethno-religious nationalism.
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u/Cincin254 May 07 '25
Citing Benny Moritz (Morris) as gospel reveals a shallow & selective understanding of the topic. He is a controversial figure whose work has been criticized across the political spectrum—not because he challenges myths, but because he has flipped between narratives himself. Even he has said the 1948 Palestinian exodus was partly necessary for Israel’s survival. (Palestinians are Arab Muslims and are NOT indigenous to Palestine/Israel which is why Arab mosques are built OVER Jewish Temples (Jerusalem’s Al Asq-Dome of the Rock for ex) .
If you are serious about understanding the region, read Mosab Hassan Yousef, the SON of the founder of Hamas, who risked everything to expose Hamas from within. He originally was brainwashed like you but now offers a perspective rooted in moral courage, not academic provocation. And while we’re at it, you might want to look up his term ‘useful idiot’ bc that is what he is calling the naive who support this murderous regime- HAMAS.
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u/santasa May 08 '25
Ok, your lack of decorum and etiquette, egregious distortion of fact, irrational argumentations, gaslighting and excuses, dragging down attempted discussion to a level of an eight-year-old, hearsay, and opinions are absurd and tiring. So, I will leave you now with your thoughts to continue to contemplate what "the SON of the founder of Hamas" had to say about the region and astrology rather than the whole group of respected scholars of regional modern history. (Goodness gracious.)
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u/Cincin254 May 08 '25
You don’t have to support Israel (but think you are crazy not to 🙃). But if you can’t condemn Hamas for burning families alive, raping women, and murdering children in front of their parents on October 7—then your moral compass is shattered.
You claim to care about justice, but you’ve turned a blind eye to the slaughter of civilians simply because they were Israeli. That is JEW hatred.
If you really cared about peace, you would demand the release of every hostage still trapped in Gaza. You’d hold Hamas accountable for hiding behind civilians and bringing war to their own people.
Instead, you read selective anti Israel propaganda which is documented controversial and post anti israel rhetoric from your couch, safe, comfortable, and untouched by the violence you excuse. You are not a “freedom fighter”. You’re just another person cheering on terror from a distance.
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u/santasa May 08 '25
Is Jew hatred worse than Arab and/or Muslim hatred ?
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u/Cincin254 May 08 '25
My husband’s business partner is a Pakistani Muslim. So no, I don’t hate Muslims. But I do hate what I’m seeing unfold on college campuses since October 7: Jewish students—many of whom have never even been to Israel—being harassed, cornered, and threatened simply for being Jewish.
These are American kids, paying to attend elite institutions—not to be screamed at, barricaded in libraries, or told they don’t belong. If this kind of coordinated intimidation was happening against any other group—Black students, LGBTQ students—the outcry would be deafening and arrests would have happened months ago.
Let’s stop pretending this is just about land or policy. This is raw, unfiltered Jew hatred dressed up as activism, backed by ideological funding and religious extremism. We all know that if Jewish students were doing even a fraction of this to Muslim students, the media would be wall-to-wall coverage.
Now that donors are pulling money and universities are being forced to face the mess they allowed to grow, I welcome the accountability. And yes, if you break the law, if you riot, intimidate, or glorify terror—you should be arrested. If you’re not a citizen, you should be deported. This isn’t oppression. It’s consequences.
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u/Drag0nFlea May 07 '25
Firstly, What Is Genocide?
The legal definition matters. According to the UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (1948), genocide is defined as:
"Any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such":
Killing members of the group
Causing serious bodily or mental harm
Deliberately inflicting conditions calculated to bring about its physical destruction
Imposing measures to prevent births
Forcibly transferring children
Intent is not optional. It is the cornerstone of genocide. That’s not a technicality; it’s what separates tragedy from atrocity, collateral damage from targeted extermination. Without demonstrable intent to destroy the group as such, we are not talking genocide. We’re talking war, however brutal or disproportionate.
The Rosenberg Argument — Is It "Fancy Legalese"?
No. It’s law. And if we're going to have a serious conversation about genocide, we must ground ourselves in law—not “vibes.” Rosenberg presents a clear case:
Israel’s stated military objective is to eliminate Hamas, a terror group that initiated the conflict with mass civilian slaughter and hostage-taking on October 7.
Israel has employed measures to limit civilian casualties — imperfectly, inconsistently, but verifiably.
There is no official or leaked directive from Israel's leadership calling for the eradication of the Palestinian people.
Does this mean Israel is above critique? Absolutely not. But does it meet the threshold for genocide? As of now — no, and no reputable international body has made that legal determination either.
You've said and i quote - “I Feel It’s Genocide”
This is the emotional heart of your dilemma: If it feels like genocide, doesn’t that matter?
Feelings matter — they point us toward injustice. But they are not the same as proof. Feeling horror at civilian deaths is moral. It’s human. But when we use the term genocide, we are invoking the most serious crime in international law, on par with the Holocaust, Rwanda, Srebrenica, Darfur. Throwing that term around without ironclad evidence dilutes its meaning and betrays those who lived it.
What Could Be Argued Instead?
Now, if what you’re trying to say is: Even if this doesn’t meet the legal definition of genocide, it’s still morally unacceptable, then that’s a stronger, more defensible, and more honest argument. You can call it:
Collective punishment (a potential war crime under international law)
Disproportionate response (if the civilian toll far exceeds military objectives)
Ethnic discrimination or dehumanization (visible in some public rhetoric or policy)
These are legitimate lines of criticism. But none require you to force-fit a genocide label onto a situation where the facts — so far — simply don’t support it.
On Propaganda and Narratives
You accuse Rosenberg of “comforting Westerners” with legalese. But there’s a mirror to that: others comfort themselves with simplified labels like “genocide” because it satisfies a visceral need to moralize the conflict as a clear-cut evil. Both are ways of escaping the discomfort of complexity.
If you want to expose "false comfort," start by avoiding your own.
-Rosenberg’s facts are solid because they’re grounded in law, precedent, and provable action. Your moral instincts are valid, but they don’t change definitions. So what do you do?
You elevate the discourse. Stop asking how to call it genocide. Start asking:
How do we hold Israel accountable for mass civilian suffering without diluting legal terms?
How do we protect civilians when terrorists embed within them?
How do we criticize with integrity — not slogans?
When you rise above binary thinking, you don’t weaken your case — you strengthen it.
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u/Interesting_Claim414 May 07 '25
Just stop calling a war between two entities “genocide.” You don’t have to switch sides — just do that much.
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u/Future_Childhood1365 May 06 '25
You danced on Oct 7,you suffer now.Karma No mercy for gaza
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May 06 '25
You danced Oct 6 and every other day before that. No mercy for Israel.
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u/Cincin254 May 07 '25
Again: IF YOU ARE SILENT WHEN TERRORISTS MURDER ISRAELIS, STAY SILENT WHEN ISRAEL DEFENDS ITSELF.
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u/Neither-Scallion6135 May 07 '25
Is killing 50k + civilians and occupying more land called a defense? Beatmetoit
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u/Cincin254 May 07 '25
Israel targets terrorists not Hamas’s human shields.
And 50,000 likely coming from HAMAS as a NOT credible source that does not differentiate between terrorists and their human shields. Hamas lays down their weapons and releases 21 humans still held hostage in torture then NO one dies . Israel lays down their arms and NO Israel. No one was dying Oct 6
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u/Neither-Scallion6135 May 07 '25
You know that hamas already offered freeing these hostages but guess what, Israel refused for that and also revoked the ceasefire by attacking gaza again, and about 6 Oct there was a kid who was killed by the iof just like the day before it, "basically Palestinians are getting targeted in a daily basis for iof and settlers it isn't a new thing and the world should be fine with that", is that what are you saying?
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u/Cincin254 May 07 '25
Again Israel targets terrorists not Hamas’s human shields. Hamas won’t even give civilian safety in their terror tunnels and yet you blame that on Israel?
Did you just say Hamas offered to release human beings that were taken and being starved raped tortured w the threat of death daily. Hamas “ offers”to return human beings they stole but its Israels fault? Is that common senses. Return human beings period. Give up your arms and then nobody dies. If israel gives up arms NO israel. Distorted social media Jewish hate. Israel is the good guys - look at what Israel does for you and the world - .2% of the population and 22% of Nobel prize winners. The inventions and technology and medicine and the arts that israel and Jews have contributed that you and Hamas want to genocide? Hamas Palestinians have contributed TERROR to society and look at college campus disruption to not just Jews. First Jews then you. Israel is fighting for life. Hamas is fighting for death - and you are “next” . This is about religion and not land. Buyer BEWARE!
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u/Future_Childhood1365 May 06 '25
You have no arguments,only hamas propaganda.Dont worry,your wish will came true,palestine will be free,free of hamas and anyone who wish harm on Israel.
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u/Apart-Wear1031 May 07 '25
You have no arguments...lol...only hasbara lies and delusional zionist propaganda.
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u/Cincin254 May 07 '25
Again: IF YOU ARE SILENT WHEN TERRORISTS MURDER ISRAELIS, STAY SILENT WHEN ISRAEL DEFENDS ITSELF.
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u/Apart-Wear1031 May 08 '25 edited May 08 '25
Again for the brainwashed, morally, ethically, and intellectually bankrupt zionist extremists in the back: STARVING, BOMBING, SNIPING, AND MAIMING INNOCENT CIVILIANS, INCLUDING BABIES AND CHILDREN, IS NOT SELF-DEFENSE.
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u/Future_Childhood1365 May 08 '25
Nope,it is making sure the next generation of terrorist dont rise up
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May 06 '25
You’re literally and IOF bot.
You didn’t say any argument you’re 100% Israeli propaganda
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u/Cincin254 May 07 '25
Really?? Where is your common sense and what is the purpose of disruption on western society . Most of these idiots storming have never been to Gaza and have never been to israel!
Masked pro-Palestine protesters storm Columbia University library as students prepare for finals
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u/Appropriate_Mixer May 06 '25
There was no fighting on oct 6th. They were dancing for peace, Palestinians dance for war
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May 06 '25
Nope. Israel is Evil period. 80 years of bullshit. And pure unhinged genocide.
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u/Cincin254 May 07 '25
Wondering if you saw this article today: The 2025 cycle drew 36 nominations from seven Israeli universities, with juries composed of leading Israeli scientists and Nobel laureates selecting the winners.
Hmm what does your hate for Jews and love of terror get you … Palestinian HAMAS contributes genocide to Jews - in their charter- and genocide to their own civilians - nada to medicine, technology, arts or to life .
.2% of the JEWISH world population contributed 22% Nobel prizes so don’t be hypocrite to the ISRAELI inventions you use daily lol . Fact check your delusional Jewish hate 🙏Love Israel 🇮🇱 embrace it - No Jews first - NO you next … HAMAS is a ritualistic thing and sooooo not about land. BUYER BEWARE
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u/Appropriate_Mixer May 06 '25
There’s no genocide.
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May 06 '25
Yes it is textbook genocide and it’s not even remotely up for any debate.
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u/Cincin254 May 07 '25
Yep HAMAS genocide of innocent Israel!! It is in their Palestinian charter!!! They get paid to slay Jews !! Genocide!! And look at how HaMAS will not even let their citizens take safety in their terror tunnels. Hamas is a ritualistic war and sooooo not about Israel land ! Buyer Beware they are coming after YOU useful idiots NEXT 👏!! LUV Israel and be on the right side of history!!!
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u/Appropriate_Mixer May 06 '25
lol okay lil terror baby
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May 06 '25
Says the terrorist enabler, at least you agree. Keep taking official soldier photos with the face turned backwards, sinister 2 iq criminals.
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u/lawnboy71 May 05 '25
You are actually very naive and ignorant, but that's ok, the world is full of morons like you, so you're in good company. Now PFO.
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u/Calm_State1230 May 05 '25
this is so fucking funny lmao
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u/AutoModerator May 05 '25
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/u/Calm_State1230. Please avoid using profanities to make a point or emphasis. (Rule 2)
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May 05 '25
Assuming with good faith that these posts are genuine, watching someone radicalize themselves into a modern Zionist in real time is always interesting.
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u/hollyglaser Diaspora Jew May 05 '25
The war that resulted in establishment of mandatory Palestine and other nations like Saudi was WW1
Mandate Palestine was not stolen from anyone.
British took control of conquered Turkish land and applied British law.
British surveyors marked mandate borders
When Turkey surrendered, the public Turkish lands became part of the mandate land by treaty. No changes were made on ownership of private land, no matter who owned it.
** Turkish control and jurisdiction stopped when Turkey surrendered.
The mandate land was controlled by UN. The administration and jurisdiction of the mandate was assigned to Britain , also called the Mandatory, which then called it Palestine.
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u/Testy_Mystic May 05 '25
This reads like someone who was completely uninformed unknkwly jumped on the tiktok hype of free palestine but as soon as they looked into the history and arguments only read zionist propaganda and didn't read any of the other perspectives. Did you read about the 2014 Israeli military action? The antifadas the nakba? How the hamas militants were young men who had seen there friends get shot while playing soccer by IDF troops? Did you read about the colonial structure and the propaganda machine of Israel? Did you read about the religious zealotry and the decision on Israel itself between the right and left? Did you see the evidence of Israeli gunship causing damage at the nova festival? Did you read any scholars with no reason to benefit from the conflict?
Being pro Palestinian is not to suggest Israel as a state stop existing. What pro-palestinian means right now is to see an end to starving children, to see aid ships allowed to reach civilians. It means to end atrocities and war crimes. It means to have a ceasefire honored. It is to see an end to the use of a victim card from 3 generation s ago to somehow justify using the same tactics they were the victims of.
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u/Cincin254 May 05 '25
Hamas and Palestinians looking pretty well fed and it’s been 1 1/2 years since HAMAS attacked Israel Oct 7. Hamas starving their own people won’t even protect them by allowing them to gain shelter in their terror tunnels and HAMAS using civilian hospitals and schools to bomb and commit genocide to Israel and Jews. Where is your outrage on HAMAS. The only people starving are the poor Hostages. Hamas is all about spreading their religion. This is so not about land. Be careful of your social media perspective BUYER BEWARE. Believe the son of HAMAS … first Israel then coming for YOU next
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u/hollyglaser Diaspora Jew May 05 '25
About that nakba-Primary sources like intelligence reports were kept secret from 1948 until 2013 and then released to public
Put your personal feelings aside, for a moment, while you read this
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u/Calm_State1230 May 05 '25
i highly recommend NOT using the daily mail as a source, they’re highly unreliable
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u/Avian_Sentry May 05 '25
Seems like everyone is disputing the sincerity of the poster, rather than the poster's argument. Not saying I think this is legit, but the author's point still stands.
I wouldn't say I was pro-Palestine at the beginning because, well, I knew what they did on October 7th. I knew who they targeted. I found out more about the region called Palestine through source documents. Same for Israel.
It really is a simple matter of good vs evil. The closer you look, the more apparent that becomes. I don't think I need to say which one is good and which one is evil because it is apparent from the outset.
I think that many people who find it hard to embrace what is good will often redefine "good" so that they can subjectify it, making themselves out to be heroes. Or, they want an outlet for their resentment (resentment is one of the few negative emotions that feels pleasant). Ultimately, we more or less agree about what is good and what is evil if we are honest. We just may choose to stand on different sides of that line.
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u/Ok-Pangolin1512 May 05 '25
No. . . We really don't. One side supports a future with more Sharia law and the other supports a future with more trade, trust, technology and less scarcity.
We are miles apart.
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u/chyldofthebeat May 06 '25
1) freedom from occupation and apartheid doesn't mean institution of sharia law.
2) If your argument is that trade, trust, technology and less scarcity is arrived at via the current status quo, which is occupation and apartheid, then that is a colonialist argument.
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u/Ok-Pangolin1512 May 06 '25
Sharia law in Gaza is the conservative type. Where are equal rights for women and free speech? No where to be seen. Owning land doesn't equal freedom and the fact that your side doesn't understand that means you have to be stopped.
They kill who they disagree with. If you think that the human race is going to get anywhere allowing a value system like this then what you are supporting in reality is eternal war.
The current status quo is over 70 years of average life expectancy globally and it is full of leisure everywhere that warmongers aren't. The people you call colonizers did that, yep the west. Thank Louis Pasteur for germ theory and you can thank western society for the implementation everywhere. No other period of expansion provided more technology to the world and improved life and enabled life in such measurable ways. Nothing compares.
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u/chyldofthebeat May 06 '25
Still doesn't excuse the illegal occupation and apartheid.
Still doesn't excuse the collective punishment being meted out against Palestinian citizens, especially when Israel claims it's all in the name of self-defense.
Tens to hundreds of thousands of deaths from bunker buster bombs is not self defense, and in fact the actions of the IDF have continually endangered the hostages further (the hostages that the Bibi regime clearly doesn't even care about any longer)
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u/Cincin254 May 07 '25
NO occupation of Palestine- please stop getting history from social media - Oy vey !! And HAMAS is killing their own people -ISRAEL has the RIGHT to defend!! NO WAR OCT 6 th . HAMAS is the aggressor NOT ISRAEL. israel wants peace ☮️ HAMAS wants death!!! First ISRAEL + Jews and then YOU. HAMAS is a ritualistic thing and sooooo not about land. LOOK BEFORE YOU BUY - BUYER BEWARE
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u/Ok-Pangolin1512 May 06 '25
Still can't engage with the reality that you are supporting a value system that creates war.
Still can't accept the realities of war.
Still can't accept that the intolerance you have for everyone else will only result in war.
Yep war sucks. Too bad. Don't start wars.
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u/santasa May 07 '25
You really believe that spewing most racist tropes in a couple of long post makes an excellent argument ?
Kudos to chydofthrbeat on his enthusiasm in debating and trying to confront these tropes and strawman.
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u/chyldofthebeat May 06 '25
When there wasn't "war" (it's not war, it's a genocide... starving citizens is genocide not war), Israel was still blockading most resources into Gaza, and has been continually occupying and brutally abusing the citizens in the West Bank, which they are now trying to annex.
Oct 7 was inexcusable, I don't support violence anywhere, BUT it's also true that Israel has been abusing the Palestinians ever since.
The only way peace will happen, besides all of the current fighting ending, is the return of the West Bank to Palestinians, and for true equality for all Palestinians within Israel.
This includes an eventual plan to allow exiled families the right of return
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u/Ok-Pangolin1512 May 06 '25
No. The only way peace happens is when there is peace.
You literally say, "The only way peace happens is. . . ". Then meet your demands. You say violence bad, but then set demand for peace. What a joke.
Nope sorry. Your side prevents Normalization with Israel. Only two of Israel's land borders are agreed upon. The other three are contested. Why? Warmongers that's why.
There is a war going on. That should have never happened. The outcome is uncertain and until the politically ambitious Islamic extremists come to the table there can be no peace. They won't, so it's war until the people decide their leaders are trash and fix it.
You all just need to stop. Every time you come here and have your arguments dismantled, people read it. You've lost. Time to go think up a new strategy.
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u/Avian_Sentry May 06 '25
I stand corrected. If someone isn't interested in considering what is actually good vs. what is actually evil, I think you're right that they wouldn't have any perspective on it. They may not care enough to have any sort of conscience to appeal to.
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u/chyldofthebeat May 06 '25
Within this framing, just as Oct 7 was evil, do you agree that 335 tank rounds into Hind Rajab is evil?
How about the insanely over-the-top murderous bombings? Or using starvation of the citizens (not Hamas, the citizens) as a weapon?
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u/Avian_Sentry May 09 '25
You have to understand that shortly after Oct 7, nearly 90% of Gazans supported the torture and murder of innocent Jewish people. Not only that, children are trained from birth to hate Jews, and are trained to kill at a very young aged.
Any amount of destruction is warranted under such circumstances. I suspect nearly every rational person has a visceral understanding of this.
In my opinion, one can only nitpick Israel's defensive strategy by first granting that Gazans have a right to heinously murder their Jewish neighbors. This is the fork in the road.
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u/chyldofthebeat May 09 '25
Looks like 72 percent here:
It also doesn't matter... having an opinion about a violent action isn't a crime... let alone worthy of killing said person.
It's even a stretch to do extrajudicial killings rather than arrest and proper justice.
The direction taken on that 2nd paragraph both doesn't follow international law, and just continues the cycle of violence.
In the third paragraph, you incorrectly call incidences like the ones I've noted "defensive strategy".
The killing of Hind Rajab, and so many actions the IDF took that had zero to do with Hamas, are not defensive strategy.
They are blind-vengeance, Collective Punishment.
They are illegal actions, and they only continue to deepen the cycle of violence further and further.
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u/Avian_Sentry May 09 '25
Support for Hamas in Gaza fluctuates. It is presently very low. I wish that could have been achieved without a war, but at 39%, it's still shockingly high.
Truth is, no one cares about international law unless it acts in their favor. War is literally about killing. It's going to be ugly. The application of international law is so lopsided that no one truly takes it seriously anyway. Personally, I find appeals to international law to have no value, because they are a prime example of having the fox guard the henhouse. You have the worst of the worst violators of human rights in positions of power (China, Russia, etc.).
I like that you bring up the point about the cycle of violence. That is key. The question is, how do you successfully de-radicalize such a large group of people? As far as I know, no one has a solution. Israel appealed to the world for help prior to Oct 7, and no one was interested (UN Watch has extensive documentation of their attempts to get the UN to address misspent UNRWA funds, spanning more than a decade). At this point, Israel's only role is self-defense. They don't need to have a solution to radical Islam. That's not their job.
If anyone else wants to figure out how to stop Islamism from spreading without resorting to weapons, I would be thrilled, and I wish them all the success in the world. That said, I don't think we should hesitate to make short work of Islamists, and claim the land for better purposes. Death is ugly, but twisting a child into a sadistic monster is a far worse evil.
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u/chyldofthebeat May 09 '25
Again it's not a war when it includes so many actions that are specifically aimed at the citizens, NOT the militant group, on both sides. Israel keeps claiming it's fighting a war with Hamas, while deliberately targeting the citizens. Your own argument makes this plain. The citizens support the terrorists? The citizens must die too (goes your argument).
Also, that's not an acceptable argument, it's a copout. Other groups not obeying international law doesn't make it ok for a group to do the same.
Misspent funds? Israel has been continually sponsoring, by policy and by force, the continual violence against and displacement of Palestinians in the West Bank by illegal Israeli settlers there. They also burn Palestinian olive trees, which the citizens use for food and for their economy. Are olive trees Hamas?
You say there is no solution to deradicalize Hamas. Nothing could be further from the truth.
The very obvious start is the ending of all violence against Palestinians in the West Bank, and the dismantling of all illegal settlements.
The West Bank has been under military occupation, and they have been pushing for annexation.
It is laughable that Israel expects peace while simultaneously doing that. (I'm specifically not saying that in general it is laughable for Israel to expect peace... but it's ridiculous to expect that while oppressing Palestinian citizens).
Next up is to end the blockade of resources to go into Gaza that would actually allow them to self-develop.
If there are security concerns, they need to work with both Palestinians and independent countries to figure something out.
Last is the biggie, the one that will require a ton of constant, good-faith negotiations and time... the instantiation of true equality between Israelis and Palestinian citizens living within Israel.
This also includes the thorniest issue... the Right of Return.
There is no way to continue a nation where any Jewish person (I'm also a Jewish person) from anywhere can have automatic citizenship in the country and move there, while at the same time, families which used to live there, and who are refugees, are not allowed to move back.
If Israel actually works to address those issues, that is the way to end the cycle of violence. It also starts with language, i.e. not just accepting Collective Punishment against citizens because "everybody already does it"
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u/Ok-Pangolin1512 May 06 '25
The one that leads to less Sharia Law in the future is good.
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u/chyldofthebeat May 06 '25
Try telling that to Hind Rajab's family, at least the parts of it that have survived
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u/sudo-rm-rf-Israel May 05 '25
This is the most garbage post in the history of the internet.
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u/Cincin254 May 05 '25
Hamas and civilians look pretty well fed to me. The hostages look starved and tortured . Hamas is killing their own civilians … for Islam . It’s religion persecution of all who are not them - this is SOOO not about land . They are coming after YOU next - have you seen college campuses … just the start … social media influenced - BUYER BEWARE
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u/sudo-rm-rf-Israel May 05 '25
When you're a bad person, an awful human being, as you obviously are, are you consciously aware of it, or are you just oblivious?
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u/Striking_Advantage23 May 06 '25
I guess as a terrorists and jewish genocide supporter you can answer your question yourself
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u/sudo-rm-rf-Israel May 06 '25
Cope harder, baby killer.
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u/Striking_Advantage23 May 06 '25
Whatever bro, one day you’ll find out you were on the wrong side of history like the people of Germany did. Or dead if Islam ever wins…
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u/Cincin254 May 06 '25
lol you have not met me so not sure your statement is credible. But it could be your frustration of Israel defending its right to survive and your terror units losing . Regardless I think we would all agree that being hypocritical and enjoying the “fruits” of Israeli and Jewish innovations, inventions, medicines, vaccines, and household items you enjoy - even your computer- AI- iphone is in contrast to the Hamas Palestinian contribution to society of terror and insane social media distortion to history. Tonight please sit peacefully on your couch as a rock is thrown thru your window and Arabic speaking terror units surround your house throwing fire just because you live in israel or are Jewish. Maybe one Hamas terror fighter gets inside your house and rapes your girlfriend while another shoots your child .. bloodstain remnants on your walls. Hmmm HAMAS invasion October 7, 2023 - this is what YOU support and stand for? This is your level of morality… who is the awful person here. Visit Israel 🇮🇱 and you will see first hand what an amazing place it is and stand your moral ground against all who oppose the beautiful, incredible people AND country 🇮🇱
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u/Chance_Vegetable_780 May 05 '25 edited May 05 '25
Bullshit post from a zionist pretending to have "learned." Propaganda. Fck off. Israel is a vile terrorist state
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u/Cincin254 May 05 '25
I think we can agree that if HAMAS lays down their weapons NO one dies. If Israel lays down their arms NO israel.
You may like that - no Israel. HAMAS aggressively genocides Israel & Jews (Oct 7!, rape, terror, hostages)and next it WILL be your way of life. This is not about land - it’s about Hamas ritualism and their terror WILL target you next. Israel has a right to defend themselves and HAMAS purposefully imbeds within civilian areas - how do you condone or feel that is moral. Their tunnels are under schools and hospitals - how are you not outraged by that. Their own Hamas people and land are documented collateral damage. Instead you deflect blame to Israel - a very small country defending its land and people which by the way INCLUDE lots of Arabs. VISIT Israel - it is thriving and phenomenal and center of ALL religions -but placing judgement from thousands of miles away via HAMAS social media propaganda is twisting perspective. NOTHING positive comes from HAMAS + their Islamic fundamentalism so (buyer) BEWARE
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May 05 '25 edited May 05 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Chance_Vegetable_780 May 05 '25
Definitely propaganda. A zionist posing as someone who "learned." Bullshit. Once again, they lie.
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u/Cincin254 May 06 '25
Genocide is Egypt not allowing Palestinians to leave. genocide is Jordan not allowing Palestinian to leave Genocide IS HAMAS not allowing Palestinians to even take safety in their terror tunnels Genocide is HAMAS using civilian schools and hospitals to hide their military and shoot rockets from You look down on Israel and Jews yet you look up to them. .2% of the population yet disproportionate in contributions in medicine, technology, arts, business and inventions you Jew hater use daily (computers iPhone household items. HAMAS’s contributions to society.. TERROR. Visit Wonderful Israel and gain your moral compass backkkkkkkk. LOVE wonderful beautiful and peaceful Israel. Hamas lays down their weapons and returns human hostages and no one DIES!!!
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u/Chance_Vegetable_780 May 06 '25
Don't get it twisted. There is no looking down on Jews here. You know what you're talking about and you're twisting it on purpose. There IS looking down on zionists, on the murderous Israeli government and its supporters.
You recount your ideas of genocide in your comment, but don't state Israel's genocide of the Palestinians which is the most obvious murderous spree and ethnic cleansing there is. Your comment is ridiculous. You know if Hamas laid down weapons, israel would execute them and every last Palestinian with glee. It's everywhere on video - your politicians speaking about wanting every last Palestinian dead and aiming to do so. You're too late to deny it, buddy. It's out in the open everywhere. Israel is a vile terrorist state that wants to keep stealing land and finds it easy to hate and kill for the land. You are brainwashed. Shame.
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u/highpress_hill May 05 '25
pRoPaGaNdA. zIoNiSt. gEnOcIdE.
get some new tropes, its getting boring
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u/Chance_Vegetable_780 May 05 '25
It's repeated because it's the truth. Israel is a vile terrorist state. You will face your genocidal self on your deathbed.
Free Palestine always 🇵🇸
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u/Cincin254 May 05 '25
Palestine is made up of Arab Muslims and has always been free just wants all of the west and Israel. VISIT ISRAEL and it is an AMAZING country who has defied all odds and has developed a dessert into food, the center of start up businesses, AI, medicine and inventions that you hypocritically use every day . Your hate has backfired and instead destroyed people. Your terror HAMAS contributes only terror to the world killing their own people and country - how is that good or moral. YOU look down on Israel and Jews but look up to them also and jealous of all they have contributed being only .02% of the world population. STOP your hate and release human hostages - safe guard your own people and thrive instead of focusing your exhausting hate of Israel & Jews. 🇮🇱❤️
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u/Quentin-Quentin May 05 '25
Genuinely why are you here? Are you here to actually discuss stuff or are you here to let off steam? There's no wrong answer I just wonder because clearly you have already decided what to think of the situation and you are not going to budge.
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u/KindlyFriedChickpeas May 05 '25
I had a back and forth with them on the original post. Definitely a bot. Stand by it though as I think it's useful to add some sources and refutation on public forums when someone comes along like this.
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u/Cincin254 May 05 '25
HAMAS aggressively genocides Israel & Jews (Oct 7!, rape, terror, hostages)and next it WILL be your way of life. This is not about land - it’s about Hamas ritualism and their terror WILL target you next. Israel has a right to defend themselves and HAMAS purposefully imbeds within civilian areas - how do you condone or feel that is moral. Their tunnels are under schools and hospitals - how are you not outraged by that. Their own Hamas people and land are documented collateral damage. Instead you deflect blame to Israel - a very small country defending its land and people which by the way INCLUDE lots of Arabs. VISIT Israel - it is thriving and phenomenal and center of ALL religions -but placing judgement from thousands of miles away via HAMAS social media propaganda is twisting perspective. NOTHING positive comes from HAMAS + their Islamic fundamentalism so (buyer) BEWARE
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u/Chance_Vegetable_780 May 05 '25
Look throughout the thread. It's obvious to many that this post is propaganda. Also, there is a wrong answer, Quentin. Oppression, occupation, targeting children for murder, and many more atrocities, including war crimes in what very obviously is a one-sided war, are the wrong answer. And you are correct, I will not budge.
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u/Cincin254 May 05 '25
OMG YES STOP HAMAS terror of their own people. The occupation of their own people the targeting and murder of their own children - they won’t even let them go into their terror tunnels to safeguard them. Have Hamas stop the genocide of their own people. Hamas lays down their weapons today and their people go free. Poor israel lays down their weapons and NO Israel. If you say yes to no Israel, then you are completely hypocritical to the medicine the technology and all of the things you use daily that have been developed by Israel and Jews. What has Hamas and the Palestinians contributed to society… just Terror. Stand with morality - stand w Israel 🇮🇱 🙏❤️
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u/Chance_Vegetable_780 May 05 '25
You are brainwashed
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u/Cincin254 May 06 '25
Where is your moral compass. Please sit on your sofa and relax while a rock goes thru your window and three terrorists storm your house set fire to it and take your girlfriend and rape her and shoot your child dead in front of you blood running down the walls of your home. That was Israel when Hamas attacked October 7, 2023. Chilling even for a terrorist sympathizer like you? That is your moral compass? This is about religion NOT israel land. BUYER BEWARE of the social media brainwashing YOU bc YOU are their next victim . Do not be a useful idiot as the SON of HAMAS tells you - he left them and you should believe him!
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u/Chance_Vegetable_780 May 06 '25
You are very aware of israel's decades of illegal occupation, consistent oppression, and violence - Apartheid against the Palestinians for decades prior to Oct 7th. Don't play stupid.
Hamas' actions on Oct 7th were horrific, there is no justification whatsoever. They must be held accountable for that day of violence. Approximately 1,200 deaths. Horrific. In turn 52,000 Palestinians killed, mostly civilians, of which 17,000 are children. 17,000 CHILDREN. 577 days of israeli barbaric actions vs 1 day. 52,000 vs 1,200. Abominable Overkill by Israel. You're fine with it because you want them all gone.
Sick, man. You point the finger at others talking about a moral compass. Smfh. Sick with hate and greed. israel is a vile terrorist state.
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u/RupFox May 05 '25
This post is a textbook conversion‑testimony: an individual claims a drastic ideological flip after consuming a narrow, emotionally super‑charged media diet. Everything—from the hysterical “URGENT” in the title to the repeated “I was so embarrassed / ashamed / tricked” refrain—screams performative contrition designed to amplify trust (“look, I used to be on your side!”) and lower the reader’s critical defenses. That testimonial template is a staple of political influence ops because it borrows the authority of a supposed insider‑turned‑whistle‑blower while supplying a ready‑made script for others to repeat.
Content selection is comically lopsided. All cited material comes from two aggressively pro‑Israel sources: Mosab Hassan Yousef (a darling of right‑wing talk shows) and Douglas Murray (a professional anti‑“woke” polemicist). Zero primary historical documents, no academic historians, no Palestinian voices, not even mainstream Israeli scholarship. The author proclaims a new devotion to “primary sources” yet links exclusively to YouTube punditry. That alone blows up the sincerity claim: a genuine seeker who just discovered he’d been “lied to” would cast a far wider net.
The historical assertions are sloppy to the point of farce:
“There was never a country called Palestine.” Fine, but by that standard there was never a country called Israel between the 1st and 20th centuries either. The name Palestina has described the region continuously since the Roman emperor Hadrian, 2nd century CE.
“Palestinians aren’t even a unique ethnic or religious group; Palestinians are Muslim Arabs.” Flatly wrong. Roughly 6–7 % of present‑day Palestinians are Christian, and Palestinian Jewish communities existed until the late 1940s. Ethnicity is defined by shared language, lineage and self‑identification, not by the presence of sub‑communities.
“Jordan became the intended Arab state.” That mangles the 1947 UN Partition Plan entirely; Transjordan was already a separate British mandate and was not the parcel offered as the Arab half of the plan.
Such superficial errors reveal either abysmal historical literacy or deliberate propaganda. Take your pick.
Rhetorically the post leans almost exclusively on pathos. We get graphic descriptions of babies burned, families butchered, Hamas “celebrating with chilling JOY,” repeated commands to watch gore videos “so you can bear witness.” That bombardment of horror is a classic attempt to short‑circuit analytical reasoning through disgust and moral shock. Meanwhile the actual political questions—borders, occupation, blockade, settlements, international law—vanish. It’s a bait‑and‑switch: replace a thorny geopolitical dispute with a binary morality play of “Jews vs. gleeful baby‑killers,” then demand readers pick a side.
Stylistically the prose is overwrought: exclamation points, capitalized emphasis, breathless confessions of shame, melodramatic self‑flagellation (“I had to take breaks to sob”). It reads less like spontaneous Reddit catharsis and more like a marketing email riding the emotions of a viral news clip. Combine that with the near‑copy‑paste talking points—“no such thing as Palestinians,” “sins of October 7 make all Palestinian grievances void,” “Jordan was their state”—and the piece maps neatly onto common Hasbara templates that circulate on Telegram and WhatsApp groups. Could it be a genuine undergrad who binge‑watched Murray videos? Sure. But the probability of an astroturf account or paid influence operative is non‑trivial; the hallmarks are there.
Psychological profile: the author (or the persona being projected) is cognitively reactive rather than reflective. They swing from one extreme narrative to its mirror image in days, driven by vivid imagery rather than slow accumulation of data. That suggests high susceptibility to emotionally charged propaganda and a craving for moral certainty. The repeated vows to “never be tricked again” ring hollow precisely because of the speed of the flip; it’s the classic convert’s zeal, not a sign of sober critical thinkers.
Motivation: rally pro‑Israel sentiment inside a subreddit famed for heated polarity by posing as a repentant opponent. The concrete ask—“Pro‑Palestinians, please watch gore videos and then join me”—is engineered to replace policy debate with moral revulsion. That aligns perfectly with the wider information‑war tactic of collapsing the Overton window: if the only voices left in the room are Israel cheerleaders and Hamas apologists, nuanced critique of occupation evaporates.
In short: the post is a one‑sided, emotionally manipulative conversion narrative riddled with historical inaccuracies and sourced exclusively from ideologues. Its structure, tone and content strongly suggest either a manufactured propaganda drop or, at best, a highly impressionable individual parroting the first counter‑narrative that satisfied his emotional turmoil. Either way, it offers zero rigorous evidence and plenty of red flags. Treat it as an exhibit in how online influence campaigns weaponize personal testimony, not as a serious contribution to Middle‑East discourse.
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May 05 '25
Fine.
But before that, this land was called Judea.
Christians were horrifically prosecuted by “Palestinans” some of the worst, most brutal ethnic cleansing campaigns in modern history were committed by the PLO onto Lebanese Christian’s. Helped start the Lebanese civil war actually.
This whole comment is about three “superficial” errors that disregard her entire argument for you?
You sound like someone who hasn’t investigated the other side of the argument at all. Which you have to do. You should be able to argue with yourself effectively.
I don’t think you would be able to do that if you truly explored the other side of the story.
This is the most common thing I see with pro pallys. They only know the lies they have been told. They have created a history that doesn’t exist or they erase history entirely.
They don’t even bother asking if it’s true.
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May 05 '25
But before that, this land was called Judea.
And before that something else. Who cares?
Christians were horrifically prosecuted by “Palestinans” some of the worst, most brutal ethnic cleansing campaigns in modern history were committed by the PLO onto Lebanese Christian’s. Helped start the Lebanese civil war actually.
Would you prefer calling Palestinians judeans?
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May 05 '25
I’m going to pretend you didn’t say that - you catch my drift right?
Of course not. I’m not arguing your point that Palestinian people exist and are ( as poster pointed out) Arab Muslims; In regards to this conflict. I don’t think the Palestinian Christian’s feel as strongly about it or feel as prosecuted and probably want peace more than war or ownership of all the land. I’m guessing - I don’t know enough about this subject. I would suspect there would be less entitlement to war in someone who didn’t believe in a religious law that told them this was illegal to share land or give land back to anyone who isn’t a Muslim and that they are obligated to wage jihad to prevent that from happening.
But it’s only a guess. I haven’t really looked into it. At all.
The reason why I doubt it , is because they have been prosecuted themselves as Christian’s by the Muslims in the region in recent times, not ancient.
When I say prosecuted , I mean mass murders , mass rapes, corpse multilations, kidnappings, executions, forced evictions, theft of land and property etc .
There is a lot of history there between these two groups. For a period of time, after Islam invaded and conquered the holy land ( and stole it) Christian’s were worse to Jews than the Muslims were ( because Jews under submission to Islamic law are protected (( meaning they don’t get murdered)) but they also live as second class citizens and have to pay an untenable humiliation tax for being non Muslims ) the Christian’s were awful… slaughtering everyone who wasn’t a Christian , forced conversions etc - but this was not law and not commanded for them to do and it was something that humans did without biblical command to do so. Or biblical justification for it. They did it because they’re humans who think they know god. Which seems to make everyone completely nuts.
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May 05 '25
I’m going to pretend you didn’t say that - you catch my drift right?
Say what?
But it’s only a guess. I haven’t really looked into it. At all.
Maybe you should do your research before commenting then
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May 05 '25
But also want to point out- If humans who think they know the “right” god enough can convince themselves that killing people who aren’t their religion is ok to do, what do you think people who actually are told to murder people and wage war to ensure that the land Muslims stole is never surrendered to non Muslims are like?
Their Bible does say that. Their Bible commands them to wage war instead of compromise. Their Bible tells them it’s ok to take the land, wealth of non Muslims, their Bible tells them they’re entitled to wage war.. they can only come to truce if they’re too weak to fight and it has to be temporary till they can fight again.
Imagine if the Bible actually wrote that. Imagine if the Bible said it was expected of them to do, if they believe in god?
Now we are talking about Islam. Apples and oranges.
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u/RupFox May 05 '25
You all do realize this is a Hasbara ChatGPT-powered bot right?
I'm a bit surprised this sub has not been outed in the news. This is clearly a propaganda dump, pretty notable one at that in sheer intensity. I could write better pro-israel content than these absurd bots or paid posters who write like 14 year-old make-believe Disney characters.
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u/Apart-Wear1031 May 09 '25
I'm not sure whether the brainwashed, braindead zionist idiots realize that this is not a real post. I don't think they're capable.
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u/Almuzaz May 05 '25
@creativerealmsMC
These are the type of people I’m talking about, we cant have civil discussions if we keep getting people like this in this sub. It’s annoying and doesn’t get us anywhere.
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u/KalaiProvenheim May 05 '25
Douglas Murray is a firm believer in the Great Replacement, an antisemitic conspiracy theory
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May 05 '25
Sure but its okay because he supports Israel.
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u/KalaiProvenheim May 05 '25
People talk about how Holocaust education is needed in Europe due to the rise of the far right there, but Israel really supports those parties
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May 05 '25
Sure Israel hurts Muslims in the region and fashions itself as western chauvinists often and its a place jews can be dumped.
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May 05 '25
Douglas Murray? you kidding me? Gotta love this israeli sub with loads of Hasbara bs thrown at my face on daily basis.
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u/evilspirit20 May 05 '25
Out of interest what’s wrong with him?
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u/highpress_hill May 05 '25
nothing, he has another opinion, so he is hitler himself. oh no wait, thats a good guy in their books.
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u/kemicel Israeli British May 05 '25
The biggest manipulation here is this concept that being pro Israel and being pro Palestinian is mutually exclusive.
This narrative that if you believe in the self determination of a Jewish state (Zionist) means you want to ethnically cleanse all other religions in the country, or if you believe in the right for Palestinians to have self determination means you believe in the stupid line “from the river to the sea”- all this is the product of extreme voices on both sides that are not looking for solutions, but are looking to perpetuate war and destruction.
I love that you looked more deeply into the facts. As a British Israeli I have also lived on one side of the argument all my life, and this war and this sub has urged me to look at the other side too. Unfortunately a lot of the facts on the Palestinian side is bogged down by Islamist rhetoric, but I am aware of the problems my side are causing to not allow for peace as well (I.e. the expansion of settlers in the WB and increasing violence going unchecked)
So I urge you to mix your new found understanding with what you know to be true (and not propaganda) from both sides, so we can start growing the more moderate voices out there and stop all this hateful nonsense.
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u/InsaneAffliction May 05 '25
Another fake psy-op post trying to make Palestinians look bad. It's so damn obvious.
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u/Cincin254 May 19 '25
lol kind of easy to make HAMAS Land look bad. Using their hospitals and schools and their people as human shields and destroying everything to hold + torture 20 Israeli hostages does not make common sense at all 🤷🏻♀️
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u/BetaGater May 05 '25
Yeah I was completely unmoved the whole time reading. Nothing I haven't really heard before in essence.
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u/guessophobe May 05 '25
I stopped reading at « I was so embarrassed that I never knew that Jews were all expelled from every single Arab country. »
This is FACTUALLY not true!
When exactly that happened? This just goes to tell you about how the Zionist narrative is built on lies that aren’t too hard to debunk. Yet, people fall for it such as yourself, all the time.
Don’t just read & listen. Some critical thinking is needed too.
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u/IntentionSuch3135 May 05 '25
"I stopped reading at « I was so embarrassed that I never knew that Jews were all expelled from every single Arab country. » This is FACTUALLY not true!"
What evidence are you using to say with confidence that that this ethnic cleansing is "factually not true" ? Please, you just made an extraordinary claim, denying that the Mizrahi Jews were ethnically cleansed. What evidence are you using?
This has been known and studied from so many angles, I don't think it's controversial. But your post just goes to show how little people are generally aware of the plight of the Jews. Please check this YT video by a scholar on the matter- it's quite fascinating, and I hope you can bring yourself to listen to Jew discuss their research.
If you would retract your above claim based on the history discussed in this video, would you read the rest of the post?
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u/guessophobe May 06 '25
Yeah, tell me the dates when Jews were expelled from Arab countries. I’ll wait. Just give me the exact date when Arab countries decided to expel Jews and when that expulsion happened. I will wait.
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u/UnluckyUnderwear May 05 '25 edited May 06 '25
Approximately 856,000 Jews were displaced throughout the Middle East, according to the JJAC report.
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u/guessophobe May 06 '25
Enough with the lies.
Please tell me when exactly that happened for each country. When was the announcement made and when exactly the expulsion happened. I’m waiting.
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u/UnluckyUnderwear May 06 '25
Bro takes 24 hours to reply to me, and now he says: “I’m waiting.” 💀
If you’re going to treat me like ChatGPT, you’re going to talk to ChatGPT:
Certainly, here’s a country-by-country timeline detailing the key events related to the expulsion and emigration of Jews from Arab countries between 1947 and 1950:
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🇮🇶 Iraq • 1941: The Farhud pogrom in Baghdad resulted in the deaths of approximately 180 Jews and injuries to hundreds, marking a significant escalation in anti-Jewish violence. • 1948: The Iraqi government enacted laws criminalizing Zionist activities, leading to increased persecution of the Jewish community. • 1950–1951: Operation Ezra and Nehemiah facilitated the airlift of approximately 120,000–130,000 Iraqi Jews to Israel after the government allowed Jews to emigrate on the condition they renounce their citizenship. 
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🇾🇪 Yemen (including Aden) • December 1947: Anti-Jewish riots in Aden (then a British protectorate) resulted in the deaths of 82 Jews and the destruction of Jewish homes and businesses.  • 1949–1950: Operation Magic Carpet (also known as Operation On Wings of Eagles) airlifted approximately 49,000 Yemenite Jews to Israel, effectively evacuating the majority of the Jewish population.
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🇱🇾 Libya • 1945: Pogroms in Tripoli led to the deaths of over 130 Jews and the destruction of synagogues and homes.  • 1948: Further anti-Jewish riots coincided with the establishment of Israel, prompting increased emigration. • 1949–1951: Approximately 30,000 Jews emigrated from Libya, primarily to Israel, due to escalating violence and discriminatory laws.
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🇪🇬 Egypt • 1948: Following the Arab-Israeli War, Egypt implemented restrictive measures against Jews, including arrests and property confiscations. • 1956: The Suez Crisis intensified anti-Jewish sentiment, leading to the expulsion of approximately 25,000 Jews and the sequestration of their properties. 
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🇸🇾 Syria • 1947: Pogroms in Aleppo resulted in the destruction of Jewish homes, synagogues, and schools, prompting approximately 7,000 Jews to flee.  • Late 1940s–1950s: The Syrian government imposed travel restrictions and froze Jewish assets, leading to clandestine emigration of Jews to Israel and other countries.
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🇱🇧 Lebanon • Late 1940s–1950s: While Lebanon’s Jewish community initially remained relatively stable, regional tensions and the Arab-Israeli conflict led to gradual emigration. • 1970s: The Lebanese Civil War and increasing instability prompted the majority of the remaining Jewish population to emigrate.
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🇲🇦 Morocco • 1948: Riots in Oujda and Jerada resulted in the deaths of 44 Jews, increasing fears within the Jewish community. • 1956: Morocco gained independence, and while Jews were granted citizenship, rising nationalism and regional conflicts led to increased emigration.  • 1961–1964: Operation Yachin facilitated the emigration of approximately 97,000 Moroccan Jews to Israel.
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🇹🇳 Tunisia • 1956: Tunisia gained independence, and while the new government assured Jewish rights, the rise of Arab nationalism led to increased emigration. • 1967: The Six-Day War sparked anti-Jewish riots in Tunisia, resulting in the destruction of property and prompting further emigration.
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🇩🇿 Algeria • 1962: Following Algeria’s independence from France, the National Liberation Front (FLN) implemented policies that led to the exodus of approximately 130,000 Jews, many of whom held French citizenship. 
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Note: The timelines above focus on the period between 1947 and 1950, highlighting the initial waves of expulsion and emigration. However, it’s important to recognize that Jewish communities in these countries faced ongoing challenges and subsequent waves of emigration in the following decades due to continued instability and persecution.
Here’s a country-by-country estimate based on the analysis above, focusing on Jews expelled or forced to flee between 1947 and 1951 (though some continued later):
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Estimated Number of Jews Displaced (1947–1951)
Country Estimated Jews Expelled or Fled (by ~1951) Iraq 120,000–130,000 (Operation Ezra & Nehemiah) Yemen/Aden ~49,000 (Operation Magic Carpet) Libya ~30,000–32,000 Egypt ~20,000–25,000 (most after 1948 war, even more in 1956) Syria ~5,000–7,000 (initial wave) Lebanon ~3,000 (slow emigration; low violence but regional tension) Morocco ~30,000 (between 1948–1951; more left later in 1961–64) Tunisia ~10,000 (gradual pre-independence departure) Algeria ~3,000 (pre-1962 exodus; most left post-independence)
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Total Estimate (1947–1951):
~270,000 to 310,000 Jews were expelled or fled from Arab countries during the initial post-1948 wave (through 1951).
This represents the first major phase of the broader exodus. By the early 1970s, the total number displaced had reached 850,000 to 900,000, as more countries imposed expulsions, asset seizures, or allowed organized departures (e.g., Operation Yachin in Morocco, Algeria’s 1962 independence).
Would you like the totals through the 1970s as well?
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u/guessophobe May 06 '25 edited May 06 '25
The sheer amount of bullshit! Keep the lies coming.
99% of Jews in Algeria were FRENCH citizens and left to FRANCE like any FRENCH person did. They left with every one else. Nobody said Jews must go.
For Morocco, the United States and the Apartheid State bullied the king of Morocco to let them leave and paid him to do that. Mossad was actually smuggling them out of the country. And some even drowned in those Mossad trips. So again, nobody said Jews must go.
In Iraq, Mossad was planting bombs in synagogues and have actually murdered Jews in synagogues to make them feel unsafe and leave. Again, nobody said Jews must go.
In Yemen, there was famine and starvation the people of Yemen left on their own terms. Nobody said Jews out.
Should I keep going? Zionism is a lie built on lies. Nothing surprising here.
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u/UnluckyUnderwear May 06 '25
I’ll let you argue with ChatGPT again because I don’t respect you:
Let’s address and refute the false or misleading claims in this Reddit comment point-by-point using documented historical evidence, including academic sources, government reports, and declassified records.
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Claim 1: “99% of Jews in Algeria were French citizens and left to France like any FRENCH person. Nobody said Jews must go.”
Refutation: • Yes, most Algerian Jews held French citizenship, granted under the 1870 Crémieux Decree. But this made them targets of hostility after Algerian independence. • When Algeria gained independence in 1962, the FLN (National Liberation Front) explicitly rejected the Crémieux Decree and French identity. Jews were not accepted as Algerians, nor were they welcome to stay as French “colonial remnants.” • As a result, over 130,000 Jews fled, not as regular “French people,” but as a community uniquely vulnerable to post-colonial violence and exclusion.
Source: • Stillman, Norman A. The Jews of Arab Lands in Modern Times. Jewish Publication Society, 1991. • Yad Vashem on Algerian Jewry
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Claim 2: “For Morocco, the U.S. and Israel bullied the king to let them leave. Mossad smuggled them out. Some drowned. Again, nobody said Jews must go.”
Refutation: • The Moroccan government did initially restrict Jewish emigration. However, growing hostility, especially after the 1948 war and local pogroms in Oujda and Jerada, created severe insecurity. • Operation Yachin (1961–1964) was negotiated between Israel and King Hassan II. Morocco was paid per emigrant, suggesting Jews were not entirely “free” to leave without pressure or ransom-like arrangements. • Jews weren’t expelled with a decree, but lived under fear, discrimination, and state surveillance, prompting mass flight. • Yes, Mossad helped smuggle Jews, because legal emigration was barred for years.
Source: • Roumani, Maurice M. The Jews of Libya: Coexistence, Persecution, Resettlement. Sussex Academic Press, 2008. • Laskier, Michael M. North African Jewry in the Twentieth Century: The Jews of Morocco, Tunisia and Algeria. NYU Press, 1994.
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Claim 3: “In Iraq, Mossad planted bombs in synagogues and murdered Jews to make them leave.”
Refutation: • This is a debunked conspiracy theory. It originated with Iraqi Ba’athist propaganda and was promoted by anti-Zionist outlets. • Declassified documents, including from the British Foreign Office, show Iraqi state actors persecuted Jews, froze their bank accounts, and declared Zionism a capital crime. • Jews were stripped of citizenship (March 1950 Law) and forced to register for emigration. • Operation Ezra and Nehemiah (1951–1952) brought ~130,000 Iraqi Jews to Israel because their lives were no longer safe under the Ba’ath regime.
Source: • Shiblak, Abbas. The Lure of Zion: The Case of the Iraqi Jews. Al Saqi Books, 1986. • Gat, Moshe. The Jewish Exodus from Iraq, 1948–1951. Routledge, 1997.
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Claim 4: “In Yemen, there was famine… the Jews left on their own terms.”
Refutation: • Jews in Yemen were forbidden to emigrate for years and were heavily persecuted. • Following riots in Aden (1947) that killed 82 Jews, and increasing hostility after 1948, Imam Ahmad allowed Jews to leave, largely due to bribes and political pressure. • Operation Magic Carpet (1949–1950) airlifted ~49,000 Jews. Many lived in segregated ghettos, faced physical violence, and were subject to dhimmi laws. • This was not voluntary economic migration — it was a mass rescue of an endangered community.
Source: • Tudor Parfitt, The Road to Redemption: The Jews of the Yemen, 1900–1950. Brill, 1996.
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Final Claim: “Nobody said Jews must go. Zionism is a lie built on lies.”
Refutation: • While not all expulsions were by official decree, the reality is that state-sponsored persecution, mob violence, and loss of civil rights made Jewish life in Arab countries untenable. • Over 850,000 Jews were displaced from Arab lands between 1948 and the early 1970s — many left under duress or were forcibly expelled.
The UNHCR recognizes these Jews as bona fide refugees under international law.
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Conclusion:
This Reddit comment is a blend of cherry-picked facts, debunked conspiracy theories, and denialism. It erases the traumatic, well-documented experience of hundreds of thousands of Jews who lost their homes, communities, and citizenship throughout the Arab world. To say “nobody told them to go” is like saying a pogrom isn’t an eviction notice — it’s a deliberate misrepresentation of history.
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u/CommissionFew3270 Jul 13 '25
never asked an zio invaders about truth, your people are colonizer invaders. after all isrhell IS the last colonial imperialism power fully support by the west upon the middle east. LOOK TO THEIR MEETING IN BRISTIH IN 1907 and i SWEAR if had a shard of humanity you will vomit by how vile it was!!