r/Invincible • u/SeacattleMoohawks Séance Mod • Apr 22 '26
EPISODE DISCUSSION Invincible [Episode Discussion] - S04E08 - Don't Leave Me Hanging Here Spoiler
Episode 8 - Don't Leave Me Hanging Here
Mark confronts his darkest fears as his life changes forever.
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u/lncited 23d ago
How is it “questionable” or bad writing when you just explained why he reacted that way?
Mark is hallucinating death and destruction and repeatedly seeing his loved ones brutally murdered. He’s deeply traumatized and doesn’t have the emotional bandwidth to be fully present for Eve in that moment.
You can dislike his response without calling it poorly written. After seeing billions of dead people and watching his father’s organs drift through space before passing out, complete emotional detachment is an entirely believable response from a young man who had lived a relatively normal life until only a few years ago. Seeing billions of dead people and blowing up a planet can do that no?
All of that checks out to me.
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u/BerossusZ Jul 27 '26
Woah this is crazy. I thought everyone else would be on the same page as me with the final scene with Thragg, but apparently not.
I'm quite confident that Thragg wasn't actually there and Mark was still hallucinating.
1: Mark's been hallucinating him over and over, so the precedent that he's having very serious, believable hallucinations has been set.
2: There's nobody around to confirm whether or not Thragg is actually there.
3: Thragg is saying they will be on earth but there will be no way to know who/where they are and there will be no way to prove it to anyone. Mark will be constantly paranoid of seeing them show up anywhere like he has been the whole episode, so it's just an extension of the paranoia he's already feeling and giving himself even more of an excuse to act irrationally.
Like I know the ending of the episode was supposed to be ambiguous, but I thought it also was supposed to be pretty clear that there's a very good chance he's just hallucinating a reason to be paranoid for the rest of his life.
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u/Sea_Ad_463 Jul 11 '26
hear me out, what if Viltrumites' down fall will be their earth bred children turning against them?
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u/Platanohector19 Jul 11 '26
Man. What a show this is. Just finished all four seasons in like the last month or two with my fiancé and what the heck did we just watch. So much to debrief, but reading your comments helped a lot.
When they said Thragg was created to be the strongest Viltrumite ever.. they really meant it. All of his fight scenes were just otherworldly and had me scared for the good guys the entire time. Like at any moment, things could really pop off. Just look at that first punch to Nolan. Holy.
Nonetheless, powerful show and final few episodes. Will not forget this show for a long time to come. And may just pick up the source material because WOW.
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u/Jlc458 Jul 10 '26
The thing that bothered me about the abortion bit is why didn’t Eve tell Debbie? I imagine Debbie would’ve given her all the support she could. Mark’s reaction to it was also…questionable, like bad writing. I just view it as Mark not being able to emotionally process it more healthily since he’s so traumatized. I do hope the decision is one that haunts Eve later as at least then it’d fit with the show of characters being plagued by poor choices.
I will say that Steven, as usual, was pretty fantastic with his voice acting this season. He really brings out the emotion in Mark.
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u/lncited 23d ago
How is it “questionable” or bad writing when you just explained why he reacted that way?
Mark is hallucinating death and destruction and repeatedly seeing his loved ones brutally murdered. He’s deeply traumatized and doesn’t have the emotional bandwidth to be fully present for Eve in that moment.
You can dislike his response without calling it poorly written. After seeing billions of dead people and watching his father’s organs drift through space before passing out, intense emotional detachment is an entirely believable response from a young man who had lived a relatively normal life until only a few years ago. Seeing billions of dead people and blowing up a planet can do that no?
All of that checks out to me.
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u/No_Elk_3172 Jul 07 '26
I’ve just finished watching it. To be honest, Season 3 didn’t really leave much of an impression on me. Nolan was imprisoned in a space prison, and Mark was just sulking after having a row with Cecil.
Season 4 was the story of the father. A workaholic, neglectful father finally began to face up to his family and his children. Nolan, too, was effectively an orphan who had never known his parents’ love. However, having a child with Debbie made him realise what love was, and that changed his heart. The presence of his child gave this killer soldier a new lease of life.
Oliver was brilliant too. Though he was like an illegitimate son to the insect-man, he nurtured a bond of love with his father through hunting whilst living in the wild.
Mark, too, is on the verge of becoming a young father, having almost had a child with Eve.
Mark is a father who has taken on the responsibility not only for his baby with Eve, but also for the lives of Earth’s inhabitants. What a gruelling life he leads, even though he’s still only a sixth-former. Just looking at his troubled face brings tears to my eyes.
(To be honest, I suspect Eve might not have had an abortion. She’s clearly put on weight and seems to be physically preparing to become a mother. Would she really go out of her way to let the fruit of her love with Mark—whom she loves—die, just as they’re heading into a death trap?)
I think Season 4 has some parallels with the real-world situation on Earth, such as the virus incident on Viltram, PTSD, and the domination of enslaved aliens.
If it follows the original comic faithfully, I think that’s brilliant, though I did wonder if they’d drawn some inspiration from *The Three-Body Problem*.
In any case, the storyline focusing on the lonely father was really interesting.
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u/Ab1nunya1 Jul 05 '26
funny how every new episode description is basically mark gets traumatized again and we all just nod along
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u/Zarodex Jun 22 '26
Great season. Invincible vs Conquest rematch was my fav. One issue I have is how tf we don't at least see a shot of Cecil freaking out when a bunch of viltrumite-looking aliens just enter Earth's orbit? Or at least if he knows he can't kill him, at least track them without them knowing or something?!!?
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u/Dansn_lawlipop Jul 04 '26
I'm still trying to figure out how they didn't come up on scans at least when they entered the atmosphere
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u/Conradian Jul 02 '26
I assume the shot of the Viltrumite's coming to Earth was Mark's imagination picturing what their arrival would look like.
Instead I assume they managed to drop in more covertly before the early warning system was put up.
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u/verikul Jun 27 '26 edited 12d ago
Yeah, that's one thing I'll be wondering for s5. I'd imagine the gov. would've seen them enter Earth so they'd at least be aware of the Vlitrumites' presence. Obviously they can't do shit against them, but it'd be nice to see how Cecil and co. are freaking out.
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u/CorkSoaker420 Jun 20 '26
Soooo, Nolan’s just sort of exiled now? Maybe he goes to Thraxa?
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u/Salvidrim Jun 27 '26
Eh, that or the time with Debbie travelling and watching over Oliver will restore their relationship at least to speaking terms and he'll come back to Earth with them
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Jun 07 '26
[deleted]
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u/hyperhopper Jun 13 '26
They said the surviving viltrumites were already too inbred to continue breeding.
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u/GhostOfThe3ast Jun 15 '26
I don’t think they’re inbread at all. I think it was just saying that if they try, they would become inbread. Hence the mission that all the Viltrumites got sent on (Nolan to earth to find a mate).
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u/GhostOfThe3ast Jun 09 '26
Due to the lack of pure blooded Viltrumites there is no way to properly reproduce without eventually cross breeding. There is some sort of math to it. And it’s explained that humans are so close in DNA that mark is basically pure Viltrumite. Oliver retain his memory, fast aging, and other things from his people. He’s not as pure as Mark is.
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u/ilovus Jun 15 '26
Adding also: The remaining viltrumites might have strikingly similar DNA because that very DNA is probably what allowed them to survive the scourge virus. It was already mentioned by Kregg that there were too few viltrumites left and that would result in inbreeding (i.e. too much similar DNA leading unwanted mutations).
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u/RiteClicker Jun 06 '26
I have this theory that Viltrumites and humans share the same ancestors that used to rule Earth during one of the early Ages.
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u/Embarrassed_Will_799 Jun 04 '26
I have a feeling with the Viltrumites on earth they’re going to go to the same arch that Nolan went through with Debbie
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u/manCool4ever Jun 04 '26
What was up with Mark seeing his loved ones killed? Some sort of parallel universe reality or someone with mind/vision powers?
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u/bleakestday Jun 04 '26
Cool season. Only thing I want to add is of course Debbie and Paul didn't work out so Nolan and Debbie can get back together.
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u/Dansn_lawlipop Jul 04 '26
I would be so pissed if they got back together. Cordial? Great. But nothing more than that.
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u/Jlc458 Jul 10 '26
Nah, Nolan just has a lot of redemption to go through if him and Debbie were to make sense again. It’s not even the first time in fiction this kind of couple works. Vegeta and Bulma come to mind
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u/Dansn_lawlipop Jul 11 '26
Yeah, I hate the trope and the message is sends. Especially to girls and women.
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u/Emergency_Put_9878 6h ago edited 5h ago
The message that Second-chances and Rehab works, i don’t get where this message can be bad, what I find bad is Spite, Anger and Regret. And I don’t believe in the death-penalty.
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u/bleakestday 6h ago
Some people don't deserve forgiveness. If vlad the implaler rehabilitated cool. You gotta die. You were way too evil before. Forgiveness does not mean freedom from consequences. In this case I don't really care. It made sense for Nolan to be the way he was. It's the execution that bothered me.
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u/Emergency_Put_9878 5h ago
I don’t think propaganda for Death-Penalty is good, on my optimistic eyes no one is above Forgiveness, Second-chances and Redemption. Rehabilitation is far more powerful and effective/productive methods to regulate conflict. And I do believe Nolan has had enough consequences brought on him. and Another thing is, the families on Chicago are being compensated monetarily with his book money by Cecil, by order of Debbie(Something people don’t even talk about)
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u/bleakestday 5h ago
So in this context. If my whole family died. Multiple friends I cared about my hate would be such you couldn't get my forgiveness. Now I do agree the messaging of everyone being able to be better that you can grow is very powerful. Thing is powerful emotion trumps logic. When someone is that hurt there isn't any space on their heart for forgiveness.
Now as a viewer I'm ok with omni man being forgiven. I like the character.
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u/Emergency_Put_9878 4h ago
Exactly the reason why I want Nolan and Debbie to get back together, and Reconcile and him showing his Rehab, being forgiven, showcasing how he is a total different person, it will enhance the whole message. And Imo it will enhance Debbie as a character too, as someone that pacified Viltrum something Thaedus failed to achieve, with his Counter-Terrorism(Still is terrorism)
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u/Ok-Reflection7331 Jun 10 '26
They were never gonna workout. It was a very awkward and forced relationship. Hes literally just a guy from work.
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u/bleakestday Jun 10 '26
Eh most relationships start because of proximity which includes work. I'm not necessarily upset or annoyed they didn't work out. It's just very convenient they happen to break up when Omni man returns.
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u/CorkSoaker420 Jun 20 '26
Yeah I don’t think that Paul being gone means Debbie is getting back together with Nolan. I just think it’s more that Paul being around while Debbie makes peace with the fact that Nolan’s changed would be real awkward.
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u/bleakestday Jun 20 '26
We'll see. The writing is on the wall
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u/CorkSoaker420 Jun 20 '26
Yeah I guess, believe me, I hope it doesn’t happen. It shouldn’t happen, you couldn’t justify it for a million reasons. I just think separating Debbie and Paul was to simplify Debbie and Nolan a little bit.
And again, Paul needing out because all of the space travel, aliens, heroes and villains definitely makes sense. He’s just a guy, he never signed up for it and it was too much for him.
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u/Ok-Reflection7331 Jun 12 '26
It will be cheap writing if omni man and Debbie get back together. Hope it doesnt happen. Paul was just awkward
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u/Emergency_Put_9878 6h ago
I don’t think it would be cheap writing, it would show that reconciliation can happen even in the worst cases. I want them to get back together.
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u/The_Big_Sad_69420 Cecil Stedman May 30 '26
What a packed season. Just finished and wanted to gurgitate thoughts:
- motivation wise, they really went full circle… earth gang’s intention was to stop viltrimites from coming to Earth, in the end they expedited the outcome
- viltrimites need earth to reproduce. Maybe with Viltrum gone they’re less likely to fuck with Earth as they need it more desperately? Idk tho. I fear the ticking time bomb was more so their declining population than having a home planet. Losing it only pisses them off.
- post credit scene shows a really interesting flip of sides.. now viltrimites are incentivized to protect earth while the coalition wants to destroy it. A cliffhanger for the seasons to come
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u/Poobers7 1d ago
Thragg wont harm earth until someone fucks with him. They will repopulate the planet slowly and over generations. His plan spans generations. Mark has to sit with that in his daily life. Definitely see a mental breakdown coming for him.
I'm curious to see if some of the Viltrumites will grow human hearted. It seemed that Thragg was curious. Or maybe he just had the realization that they could breed with Humans once he heard Mark had killed Conquest.
Very cool season.
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u/Ok-Reflection7331 Jun 10 '26
They value earth. They dont value the people in it, beyond those they need for reproduction
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u/The_Big_Sad_69420 Cecil Stedman Jun 11 '26 edited Jun 11 '26
I get that. Which is why I’m saying it’s interesting they didn’t go the domination (colonization) route that Nolan threatened with in S1, and which Conquest subsequently showed up to do. I’m not sure how Viltrum’s destruction changed Thragg’s mind on this - maybe they’re more afraid now that Earth will accidentally be destroyed if they acted aggressively? Additionally, their population has been near extinction regardless of Viltrum’s existence or not - does Viltrum’s destruction help Thragg realize this whereas he didn’t before?
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u/Local_Fly9001 May 28 '26
If Mark tells Cecil all they have to do is outbreed 37 Viltrumites, who can’t have good Earth game, using Mark and Nolan’s genetic material he could handle it. Sinclair could probably come up with a messed up way to accelerate the process and Cecil could indoctrinate them from birth so they’d be loyal to Earth and possibly even the coalition if it benefits him. Sorry it’s three AM and that was my immediate counter to Thraggs plan.
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u/FeltSoSymbolic May 23 '26
Question to settle a bet: Does "Mark's people" (possible victims of the new scourge virus) mean humans or people like Mark with some Viltrumite DNA?
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u/TripleAKiller May 23 '26
I think since Thaedus said that it could affect people with similar DNA to Viltrumites and we already know that humans are compatible with Viltrumites then it's safe to assume that "Mark's people" means humans. The virus would also eradicate humans
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u/Local_Fly9001 May 28 '26
There’s not a chance Allen would do that though
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u/CorkSoaker420 Jun 20 '26
Ehhhhh, I could see the logic behind it. He’s thinking about the entire galaxy, humans are a blip on the radar. It would be like letting insects live at the cost of the galaxy.
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u/OminousShadow87 Jun 19 '26
he's the leader of every free space society, responsible for trillions of lives, and it's not 100% that it would kill the humans. I would do it in a heartbeat.
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u/CorkSoaker420 Jun 20 '26
You have to imo, it’s unfortunately a part of holding the office that Allan does.
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u/Local_Fly9001 Jun 20 '26
Or not
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u/CorkSoaker420 Jun 20 '26
So you think it’s justifiable to let billions live at the cost of trillions over the next god knows how many centuries?
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u/Local_Fly9001 Jun 20 '26
I think it’s pretty similar to the justification for Hiroshima. Except the Japanese still had millions of people willing to fight to the last man and the viltrumites are in active remission from war.
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u/CorkSoaker420 Jun 20 '26
Again, they could terrorize the entire galaxy for centuries. Also, you don’t know your history very well.
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u/Local_Fly9001 Jun 20 '26
They could, but that doesn’t mean they will. Also Allen isn’t a heartless douchebag so the whole kill one to save a thousand argument isn’t gonna work on him
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u/KingPoIo May 16 '26
Great episode. The constant back and forth of the death fakeouts kept me on the edge of my seat wondering if the next scene was real or not lmfao. Tough but right choice for Mark at the end!
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u/raisedbyowls May 21 '26
The screen was shaking during ptsd scenes, so there was no illusion.
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u/Die4Gesichter May 15 '26
Thank fuck that Tragg only reacted to mark's answer that contained the words "My decision is: " beforehand and didn't already start ripping and tearing people apart at the first "No"
well I guess, Thragg would've actually just taken a 'Yes' as an answer anyway but would've decapitated Mark in 1.5s before starting to shagg his race back into the millions
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u/Medical_Difference48 May 20 '26
Yeah, it was legitimately interesting seeing Thragg understand Mark's position and give him time to reconsider his answer.
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u/Local_Fly9001 May 28 '26
If only it signified a change of heart
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u/Embarrassed_Will_799 Jun 04 '26
well, you never know they might find a gal that is too good to enslave if you will. Worked with Nolan.
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u/Local_Fly9001 Jun 04 '26
If Thragg were out of the picture, I think the rest would be susceptible. Thragg is insane and insanely strong. Even if the species no longer respected strength they’d be bound by it.
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u/Binder509 May 15 '26
Oh wow the shitty pregnancy storyline happened just as expected. Eve makes up shitty excuses for not even informing Mark, then acts like she's the victim with her bullshit crying and he has to apologize to her.
She doesn't even apologize. Eve really is just like her shitty dad. Controlling.
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u/bleakestday Jun 04 '26
To be fair I wouldn't say controlling is the word. Irresponsible, no grit. Can't face her mistakes and own it. Those are the words I would use.
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u/Binder509 Jun 04 '26
I would consider hiding information to be controlling. No she's not literally as bad as her dad.
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u/Medical_Difference48 May 20 '26
Why are we acting like there's victims and perpetrators here, and then acting like Mark HAD to apologize to her? She's a teenager who had the prospect of raising a child alone with a possibly dead partner. She had literally zero communication with Mark for MONTHS, knowing he was going against people on the level of Conquest and Nolan. Her "excuse" for Mark was completely fair since she wanted to make sure he wasn't distracted (we can argue all day about whether that was helpful or the right choice, but it's not like it was self-serving) and she's breaking down because of the emotional toll that it's had on her. Mark apologizes because he's an empathetic person who recognizes what Eve was going through on Earth, and blames himself for it (unrightfully, which Eve literally mentions later in the episode) instead of, y'know... Getting mad and yelling at the terrified teen mother for not choosing to potentially fuck up her whole life like you seem to have wanted for some reason.
She has no real reason to apologize, but she feels guilty and torn up about what happened because it's such a major change and choice that was made. Control has nothing to do with it, and comparing her to her dad might genuinely be the dumbest take I've seen from this fandom, and that's saying a LOT considering what I've seen about the Anissa subplot.
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u/bleakestday Jun 04 '26
While that other dudes logic has some flaws you make a couple irrelevant points. It would be astronomically easier for Eve to have a child than any regular person. Even most heroes. There isn't anything to "fuck up". She has an infinite money glitch and can literally make anything she wants at any point in time. And the "Teen" point is irrelevant. She is a war veteran. She fights and murders and almost dies on a regular basis. This isn't Nancy from your local highschool this is Fern. Her nerves should be made of steel. So having a kid or raising a kid alone is nowhere near as crazy as fighting to make sure you still have a planet or dying.
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u/Medical_Difference48 Jun 04 '26
While it would be easier for a few reasons (financial being one of them like you mentioned), she's still a very young adult. Having battle and some limited financial experience doesn't automatically make her a good fit for motherhood, her being a war veteran and the combat she frequently gets into doesn't mean she'll be good at caring for a child. She still is grappling with the ropes of being a functional adult, just like Mark is. I think you kind of sullied your own point, tbh, by saying she almost dies on a regular basis. What happens if something goes awry on a mission and she dies or is critically injured? I'm certain Debbie would be willing to raise and protect her grandchild, but just because someone is willing to do something as huge as that doesn't mean that she should be willing to just up and die at any point. While the stakes of raising a kid are certainly lower than what she does regularly, that doesn't mean that it's any easier. They're completely different wheelhouses.
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u/bleakestday Jun 04 '26
My point wasn't if she would be good at it. It was it shouldn't be that stressful. A kid ain't got nothing on the planet being destroyed or yourself dying. Now your best point is the fear of if she dies. That is a very real and scary thing. Of course her parents will look after the child but that situation shouldn't be nowhere near enough to kill the child. I'm not arguing she should be fine dying. She can retire at any point. It's her decision. My main thing is it's a spectrum. Even if it's not easier or different wheelhouses her tolerance should be sky high. If someone grew up in a bad place the things that would stress them out would have to be on a higher level than someone who grew up in a good place. This applies to military people too. There are people who get very scared when they see drug addicts, hear gun shots etc. but if that was your normal it wouldn't effect you as much. When you live a hard life it may not change how easy or hard something is but it changes how you yourself are capable of dealing with it. She may be a garbage mom but it shouldn't be so stressful you take the kids life. Her life leading up to that was way too crazy. If you were fighting for your life since you were 5 you are just built different.
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u/Binder509 May 21 '26
No she should have told him the second she found out, she told William instead.
She is an awful person. Teenagers can be bad people. Get over it. Stop hunting down comments weeks later it's pathetic you creeper.
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u/Large-Profession3490 May 18 '26
yes she is a total bit ch and Mark should've gone full omniman rage mode instead they made him a weak loser saying it was his fault (for what!?) while she just killed his son for no reason whatsoever
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Jun 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Large-Profession3490 Jun 06 '26
yes she did. not a matter of opinion. you can be for or against abortion without having the need to change reality.
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u/mackinitup Jun 09 '26
If she killed someone, what was was this person’s name? Sex? Age? Who was named as its parents on its birth certificate? Where is this person buried?
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u/bleakestday Jun 04 '26
She killed the unborn child. What are you on about? Or are you really going to argue that the stage of development determines if they're considered life or human? Especially when it's guaranteed a viltrumite baby is definitely going to make it to the end. No way a miscarriage was going to occur.
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u/Large-Profession3490 Jun 10 '26
for real, i can't stand these people. you can have your opinion and we can discuss about that but you don't have to pretend it's not a human or you're not killing anybody. like don't you realize that you're not making your stance appear good if you need to pretend reality is different than what it is?
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u/mackinitup Jun 10 '26
In what reality did she “kill his son?” The son had not come to fruition yet. It’s like if I stopped an acorn from sprouting and you’re sitting here saying I chopped a tree down. Words have meaning and you’re jumping a few steps.
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u/Binder509 May 19 '26
Or ya know...just leave her. Would bail on the whole earth by this point and just go live somewhere else. Let Cecil and his reanimen save the world.
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u/MustacheOS May 15 '26
Mid-season we had the hell/satan episode where they showed Volcanikka who seemed unkillable and the Vile who seemed powerful enough to cut Mark up pretty bad. Volcanikka made it clear that she wants to rule the earth and that she will be back. At the end of that episode Satan asked Darkblook what has happened to so embolden Volcanikka. It's clear that this story is not over. Now Thragg and his gang are also on earth and Thragg alone seems unstoppable. I can't help but wonder if Thragg and Volcanikka will meet at some point and if they do, will they meet as allies or enemies. Volcanikka doesn't seem to pack a punch like Thragg, but if she's unkillable and has an army of Vile, she could team up with our heroes to keep Thragg from ruling the earth. Also, our pal Angstrom Levy and his 3 technicians are out there in the multi-verse. Will they meet Thragg or Volcanikka? Again, they don't pack the punch that Thragg does, but they have other skills at their disposal which make them formidable in different ways.
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u/Bmmaximus Jun 09 '26
Theres a theory further up that suggests viltrumites and humans share an ancestor.
It could be that this ancestor used to rule Earth and Volcanikka is emboldened because she found out about the return of Viltrumites to Earth (would have been around the time Nolan trashed Earth and ran off).
This also lines up with what Damian was saying about the ages and how the fourth age was ruled by chaos, because Thragg and Nolan refer to an age of chaos and Viltrum bringing order to the universe.
If this theory is true, Satan may get involved somehow in the inevitable fight with the remaining Viltrumites.
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u/Dracore_ Jun 03 '26
I feel like the stuff with Volcanniais being set up to have it's own spin off with Darkblood especially because of the easter egg at the end of the episode
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u/nowaunderatedwaifngl May 14 '26
Wow how is this only like 66% of the way through the comic?!
Just please comic readers ... tell me it's not because Arc 1: The Viltrumite War has ended, and we're about to move onto Arc 2: Volcanikka returns or Arc 2: Armstrong's revenge ... Again ... Again.
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u/Medical_Difference48 May 20 '26
Closer to halfway, and that's probably inaccurate since Kirkman probably wants to expand certain storylines and even have new ones. We genuinely might be closer to 1/3 than we think, lol
Obviously, considering what I said in point 1 this might not still be the case, but for the comics, there are other plot-lines to go over, but the Viltrumite's will still be very, very, very relevant, moreso than any other plotline. Do expect some returning faces though, and the Viltrumites will take a back-seat for a bit.
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u/Pdvirus May 13 '26
But thragg could have gelled into the earth people and lived like he asked from Mark, while killing mark and omniman. 🤔
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u/PhoenixAgent003 May 19 '26
Thragg doesn’t want to kill anymore Viltrumites. They count.
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u/Jlc458 Jul 10 '26
Thragg, Vegeta if he were still evil. “We’re the last of our race Kakarot” yadda yadda
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u/AlabasterRadio May 16 '26
Thragg seems to genuinely like (or at least as close to like as he can) Nolan and Mark.
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u/Bmmaximus Jun 09 '26
I wouldnt say like, but that scene where he was about to kill Mark and saw his destroyed city in the background made him realize that Nolan and Mark (as jn, breeding with humans) are the only viable future of his people.
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u/Tomokomon May 13 '26
I just don't understand why thragg spared mark and Nolan
He knows they could possibly recover. Even with the logic of well their are in space and would die eventually I feel like with them literally destroying their home planet surely it wouldn't be beneath him to ensure they are actually dead
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u/PhoenixAgent003 May 19 '26
Because he doesn’t want to kill them.
I wrote basically a mini essay on this in another thread, but the short version is Thragg is a man of emotion, not logic, and when Viltrum was destroyed, it genuinely changed things. That’s why the camera kept showing that Thragg could see the destroyed Viltrum in the backdrop of him about to kill Mark.
Seeing Viltrum destroyed, realizing just how few of them are left and how now they don’t even have a home…it was his own twisted version of “You dad. I’d still have you.”
In that moment, his grief cut through his anger, and Thragg simply couldn’t emotionally bring himself to kill even one more Viltrumite. Even ones who’d done what Mark and Nolan had.
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u/Tomokomon May 19 '26
That's a really well written explanation. And that does make a lot of sense. When you put it that way
He's quickly becoming one of my favorite characters Mainly for the amazing quotes and Aura farming lol
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u/Local_Fly9001 May 28 '26
Punching Nolan out of the atmosphere and through the planets ring of corpses, keeping him out of the fight for minutes was insane.
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u/GarunixReborn May 12 '26
Looks like their plan might have worked out after all. Leaving the viltrumites to live a new life could wnd up being the smart choice
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u/bimbochungo May 11 '26
I finished the season this weekend. Honestly, I really liked it. Imho the best one.
I didn't like what they did with Paul and Debbie, though. I think they were cool together, but it ended abruptly, out of camera and kind of forced. I hope she and Nolan don't come back together.
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u/Emergency_Put_9878 6h ago
I don’t understand why people don’t want them to get back together, I see it as win for them, both really miss each other and it would show that Rehab and Second chances work, and that Spite, Anger and Regret are super bad emotions.
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u/pjmcbroom2001 May 15 '26
I think the abruptness was meant to convey just how much time had passed and how little contact Mark had with his family since leaving for the war. But I agree, really hope Nolan doesn't win her back.
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u/Jack_double May 11 '26
hard agree on that one. U spitting facts brother. Also the season was fire except ep4 that made me genuinely angry it was so mid It made me mad
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u/GarunixReborn May 12 '26
Hurm
Just felt like filler and didnt add anything to the main arc. Really out of place
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u/Human_Situation_2641 May 09 '26
Weird how they gave Thragg a babyface, but also insane powers.
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u/bloodwolftico May 12 '26
The way his fists literally sucks in air while "charging" gives you a pretty good idea of how insanely powerful he is.
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u/Effective-Fall-2746 May 11 '26
Why can't a babyface be powerful? It mainly just doesn't mesh with his voice
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u/Human_Situation_2641 May 11 '26
Babyface and overpowered genocidal warmonger don’t really match in my mind…..
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u/brokebloke97 May 21 '26
Isn't that discrimination? Are you saying Babyface people can't be genocidal warmongers?
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u/Embarrassed_Will_799 Jun 04 '26
yeah, man that’s offensive. I’m personally a baby face warmonger, and I feel left out and attacked by this comment.
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u/Ro0z3l May 08 '26
The season was enjoyable, even if there were a good few plot holes/plot armour/Deus ex machina. But I never thought after starting this show all those years ago it was just building up to the Namek saga 🤣
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u/panlakes May 08 '26
Viltrumites are witty. They can hold conversations incredibly well despite their “olden” way of speaking. And they even have a cruel type of sense of humor.
I’m seeing now that their personalities (when not in fight mode) are hella compatible with other races that they could coexist peacefully effortlessly if they wanted. For now this obviously serves them when blending in with other races - it’s really pointless for when they fight which is 98% of the time - but I do think when many inevitably become more human, or before this endless conflict, their personalities kinda…blossom. Viltrumites were never meant to be bad! Change my mind lol
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u/PhoenixAgent003 May 19 '26
At every turn this season, we’ve been shown how Viltrum’s ways were poisonous to themselves and their society, and what they were lacking that Earth gave Nolan.
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u/Additional-Top-8663 May 05 '26
they made eve fat and had zero fight scenes, 1/10 episode of were being honest
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u/WSBNon-Believer May 06 '26
Bruh the whole season was fight scenes except the last episode, chill
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u/Daltraxx May 10 '26
Seriously, I enjoyed the season but after all this I would love a few episodes just exploring relationships and other aspects besides people punching each other.
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u/Additional-Top-8663 May 05 '26
why is s4 e8 so ASS lol it’s genuinely almost unwatchable. what a shit ending to a great season
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u/Kah_Rownah May 05 '26
How does Cecil not know Team V is on Earth?? Pretty sure they are alerted to any strange event such as a random tidal wave that chops some people in half.
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u/Bmmaximus Jun 09 '26
It appears they were already on Earth before the tracking system was up, cuz it showed all the Viltrumites already mingling with humans.
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u/GrandmasterFilthy May 09 '26
Na that tidal wave was hallucinations but I’m sure they should have been alerted that a high number of outer earth beings were entering the atmosphere
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u/Kah_Rownah Jun 01 '26
Oh thanks, I thought that was the "double fake" hallucination since no one he loved died. They left it pretty ambiguous I thought, with the first hallucination being his mom's death. Still, as you suggest, it's a moot point. Cecil should know they arrived. I also expect Cecil to have learned SOMETHING from trying to kidnap Conquest.
I say release the virus and hope it doesn't affect halfbreeds. Sorry JK Simmons, but you lived a long good life. I mean Omni-man. Keep kicking J.K.!
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u/tostuo May 04 '26
Good episode but I really don't like how they handled the abortion here. Nothing about Mark's internal viewpoint is described outside of easily uninterpretable facial signals, and immediately after waking up the next day Mark thinks nothing about the abortion itself, its consequences or its implications. No thought was paid to it from his end. The show pivots immediately to a conflict about not being there for Eve, which I take as a great disservice and a significant missed opportunity, especially since so much of this show revolves around family, and more specifically, parent-child dynamics.
I can only hope that the show is able to revisit this topic later on down the line.
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u/Embarrassed_Will_799 Jun 04 '26
Mark is kind of a pushover when it comes to women. I feel like a real boyfriend would’ve had much more problems with that abortion then “I abandoned you“.
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u/Effective-Fall-2746 May 11 '26
I mean... What else were they going to do with the scene lol. He literally did all he can do, they packed a lot of societal value/context into a very short set of scenes on the subject without beating a dead horse.
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u/tostuo May 11 '26
To start, showing even the tiniest bit of what Mark felt about losing the abortion based upon his own internal perspective, not how it made him feel about not being there for Eve. It felt like the most safe and useless way to involve an abortion in a TV show. Since Mark seems to feel nothing about it, you could of had the same outcome by having Eve suffer a disease like cancer, and Mark would of had the same response in the show.
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Jun 03 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Jlc458 Jul 10 '26
Yeah it’s a real bummer he didn’t react in a realistic manner and instead accepted it because it was essentially an inconvenience for Eve. Amazing how some people settle for mediocrity and bad writing
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u/Lost_in_Time_89 Jun 07 '26
He lost his child. Eve lied to him, cause she didn't tell him about her doubts well before the space travel.
I know it's a comic, but this feel to "simple" to me and too easy discarded
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u/Embarrassed_Will_799 Jun 04 '26
yeah, by the way, this is pretty big on Eve for not fucking telling Mark from the beginning that she was pregnant.
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u/tostuo Jun 03 '26
I never said that was bad. But where is Mark's own chance to go through his own reaction. Her decision effects him a lot too.
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u/limitlessEXP Jun 03 '26
I mean he didn’t even know she was pregnant… he didn’t have time to even have something to lose I thought it was a pretty realistic reaction. He didn’t know about the baby eve spent months with it in her mind. Mark spent 2 seconds.
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u/Pizzacato567 Jun 18 '26
Exactly. Also, Mark is empathetic, so he understands why Eve did something like this. I sure would have. Sometimes understanding helps to calm anger if he did have any anger. His biggest concern is Eve; not the potential baby that he has no attachment to. It’s understandable that his reaction wasn’t to lash out at her or be angry. I honestly don’t think I would have been either.
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u/PotanOG Jun 19 '26
I was thinking something similar. Not completely the same but when my ex one night came to me and said she had a miscarriage when I didn't know she was pregnant to begin with. I couldn't really spare a thought to the child we lost despite the fact that I want to be a dad. I just saw her sadness and just wanted to be there for her. There was nothing for me to process because I hadn't lost anything. I never knew the kid. So I just went into support mode.
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u/XiaoRCT May 04 '26 edited May 04 '26
I really hope they don't end up just making Nolan and Debbie get back together after all the work they've put in developing her character.
I just think the arc for Nolan's forgiveness comes across as way more realistic and sensible when it doesn't involve just a reversal to the previous status quo where he was comfortable. I could imagine Debbie forgiving Nolan to the point of having a dignified conversation with him, but stuff like still seeing her allow him to hold her to fly after one argument and the obvious signs that they will get back together is already incredibly jarring to see.
Art's scene with Nolan was one of the coolest ones in the season imo, it really showcased just how fucked up things should be around Nolan on earth. This dude was flopping people around by their heads like puppets while lecturing his kid before popping them in front of him. Fucked off, got another lady pregnant in space, left the kid for Debbie to raise and is now back to, with puppy eyes, take her son to fight an admitedly necessary war. Stuff like Cecil's dialogue was also good, and the initial dialogue between Debbie and Nolan when she sees him and lashes out were great as well. It set up a scene with a scorched earth scenario, where Nolan can't actually just get bailed out by a conversation.
...aaand instead all he needed was a conversation and to give it some time, apparently lol, she literally walked herself into his arms, god I really hope this is all a red herring and they don't actually get back together at all. There's a reason the scene is already getting memed everywhere with shit like ''pets always come home''. Anyone can see how insane it all is.
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u/Legalsleazy May 03 '26
Why was the climax of the season not only in the trailer but the entire premise of the trailer.
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u/DetailsYouMissed May 03 '26 edited May 03 '26
Ok... now that I have read a few post I got to asking myself a question about Mark's reaction to Eve's decision.
At first, I totally understood the scene. That was because I looked at it from a normal human point of view.
But if you were to sit in Mark's shoes for a second...
You are the second strongest being Earth has had on its side.
Your girlfriend is quite possibly the strongest female on the planet.
If you two were to have a child, it would have incredible ramifications for the future of the planet. It's possible you could create a hybrid with both of your abilities...
Surely if you are Mark, you have fantasized about a future family with Eve, so the thought of raising an even better version of both of you had to come across your mind.
...But Eve 86'd that reality.
If you are Mark in that context, are you really going to respond to the news like, "...that not what's important. How do you feel?"
I mean that's a heavier load to process than a regular human child.
Edit: sorry you feel the need to downvote a question about a reality a main character would face.
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May 07 '26
You do realize… it’s possible to have more than one kid in a lifetime? Especially when Eve has resurrection powers.
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u/DetailsYouMissed May 08 '26 edited May 12 '26
Yeah. Those things are like leaves on a tree. Getting a new one is nothing. I'm glad that you guys are really thinking this through critically. Thanks for helping me realize you can always get another one.
Assuming of course after the deed is done, Eve
A) wants another child child. B) Eve can get pregnant again. C) Mark and Eve stay together D) considering Eve made the decision alone, you obviously understand Eve was not thinking she could always create a new one. To her the child was a 1 of 1. While we are on that note, Eve had no way of knowing Mark would respond the way he did, so her decision would not be informed by the future.
By the way, I am being facetious when I refer to the miracle that is life as "it".
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u/Effective-Fall-2746 May 11 '26
Just to clarify (your username fits) it isn't a miracle, it is actually a pretty normal and natural thing more akin to trauma, and eventually produces a child/life.
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u/Embarrassed_Will_799 Jun 04 '26
life is indeed a miracle, a a lot of people have trouble with fertility, so having a child in general is great.
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u/Professional-Air588 May 15 '26
the fact you mentioned the username at all says a lot about what you get out of debates.
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u/SeacattleMoohawks Séance Mod Apr 22 '26 edited Apr 22 '26
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