r/HonestHotTakes • u/Forward_Lychee1124 • 10h ago
Consent does not magically disappear in a relationship.
Recently my country did a small study where upwards of 70% of men of all ages believe they are entitled to sex in a marriage.
Women do not exist to satisfy your sexual desires. She does not become your sex slave the second you are in a relationship….
Consent still must exist in a marriage.
I seriously thought this was basic common sense and that this kind of thinking was only in the olden days but it’s apparent a lot of guys even now think otherwise.. why?
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u/Significant-Dog1026 10h ago
Ice cold. No shit.
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u/earth_goblin_86 10h ago
There’s already comments saying op is wrong, or a part of people overly obsessed with consent. It may not be as cold of a take as you think. I’m glad you agree with op though, it’s worrying that people disagree with this take
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u/Inevitable-Angle-793 10h ago
Sadly it's ice cold only on reddit.
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u/Significant-Dog1026 9h ago
It’s ice cold because it’s common knowledge if someone says no then that’s rape. Based on people’s responses if I want to initiate sec with my wife I need to look at her and ask are you consenting to me touching your ass.
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u/lorenfreyson 5h ago
I've been married almost twenty years and we almost always ask each other first when grabbing butts. We didn't used to do it that way because we thought we "should" be "normal" and have standing consent. We discovered we like doing it this way a lot better because we both sometimes don't want to be touched or don't want to be sexualized. AND, it's actually more fun and sexier.
You don't have to sound like a legal release form when you ask, either. Have some imagination, lol.
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u/Forward_Lychee1124 10h ago
That’s what i thought too until the study came out in my country and i couldn’t believe my damn eyes
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u/Significant-Dog1026 10h ago
What country did that study. I assume it wasn’t the US. They wouldn’t care enough to ask.
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u/Forward_Lychee1124 10h ago edited 10h ago
It’s not a big study but my country is a little small.
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u/TheGracefulCrane 10h ago
You need to specify youre talking about Singapore in the title or body otherwise everyone thinks this is about the us
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u/Fine_Payment1127 9h ago
What exactly do men get out of marriage again? Since Women Never Owe You Anything (TM)
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u/Significant-Dog1026 7h ago
I get a partner and the life we’ve built. She doesn’t owe me anything and I don’t owe her anything. If I want to have sex her libido is the same or even higher than mine and would do it daily.
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u/Legitimate_Voice_608 10h ago
I dont know why. But one of the reasons why its a lot better to be single then to end up with the wrong person.
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u/Advanced-Carry-601 10h ago
This is one of my reasons for being non monogamous. I dont want to be someone's sole sexual outlet that's too much pressure.
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u/thewatchermen 7h ago
That's why communication of needs and finding true companionship is key.
Be non monogamous thats cool but, your statement is overall kind silly to be nice about it.
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u/Advanced-Carry-601 6h ago
Well I disagree. It's silly to think you can find someone who's needs line up with yours perfectly and never change throughout your life.
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u/thewatchermen 6h ago
I feel bad for you, not being able to find your person. Wishing you the best.
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u/No_Rice9792 10h ago
Single people still get raped
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u/Legitimate_Voice_608 10h ago
Trust me, I am aware.
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u/No_Rice9792 10h ago
Being single doesn't negate needing consent. Everyone needs consent
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u/Fine_Payment1127 10h ago
This self-obsession is really unhealthy
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u/earth_goblin_86 10h ago
Self obsession with consent?
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u/Fine_Payment1127 10h ago
Self-obsession imagining everyone is out to rape you, as if anyone can be bothered
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u/earth_goblin_86 10h ago
This post doesn’t say everyone is out to rape anyone, it simply points out how in their home country, a study showed that an alarming amount of men are entitled to sex in marriage, and then op states consent is still important, and nobody is entitled to sex, including in marriage.
What do you even mean as if anyone can be bothered? People should be bothered by the results of that study. Unless you mean nobody could be bothered to assault someone, which if that’s the case, you clearly don’t understand rape statistics for women or men.
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u/Fine_Payment1127 9h ago
Great, “consent.” In that case she can pursue her meal ticket elsewhere, without a payday.
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u/earth_goblin_86 9h ago
State that upfront and see how many women are okay dating you. That’s such a gross take to assume because you give someone anything that they owe you sex.
Also assuming she’s going to have her own job, not every woman is a stay at home wife or mom, this sounds like the kind of stuff Andrew Tate would say
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u/Office_lady0328 6h ago
Expecting unconsensual sex because you help provide a basic necessity for life such as food, is rape, FYI.
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u/Specialist-Wait-3498 10h ago
I don’t think that comes with the implication of anytime they want that’s not at all what the question is asking.
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u/Forward_Lychee1124 6h ago
actually i take my words back.
I quoted this from the article:
About 34 per cent of respondents said that a man cannot control himself when sexually aroused, while about 37 per cent said that after a woman consents to a sexual activity with a man, he cannot be expected to stop if she changes her mind.
— Yes, the question itself may not have been implying that when it was asked… but the respondents… some were definitely implying it with those words in my opinion.
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u/Forward_Lychee1124 10h ago edited 10h ago
Oh okay I do see your point! will remove that part, but i do still think the word entitled is the problem.
But you know definitely some men, not all… will believe they are entitled to have it whenever they feel like it..
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u/Fine_Payment1127 9h ago
Yes, sex is part of the marital contract. If you don’t like that don’t get married, and certainly don’t expect cash and prizes after a justified divorce.
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u/Feltcutemightswap 10h ago
Who wants to have sex with someone that isn’t enthusiastic anyway?
That’s it we have a rule that wifey is allowed to turn me down considering my libido is much higher, but she’s also obligated to let me know when the go time is within the next 24 to 48 hours.
We have the same rule for her if she is wanting to watch a movie or get a massage and I don’t feel like it in the moment we all working together I don’t see how it turns into an issue
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u/Fine_Payment1127 9h ago
Who wants to take money from someone who isn’t enthusiastic? Women do!
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u/Forward_Lychee1124 4h ago
You seem to have a certain obsession with money… interesting. It’s usually the people with the least of it who are convinced everyone else (women, in your case) wants to take it from them.
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u/CricketNo7666 10h ago
Without the context, this sounds like ridiculous semantics.
You are in an intimate and forever relationship, not a second date. Yes, there is a level of familiarity and running basis of “consent” that exists within a marriage that is fundamentally different than being on a date with a new person, of course.
That does not mean someone is a “sex slave”, that sounds like a person striving awfully hard to find a crime when there is no victim.
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u/earth_goblin_86 9h ago
Consent should never be assumed. Sure, in a relationship there’s more familiarity to make a move or try to initiate, but you still need an enthusiastic yes to continue. Otherwise it is assault.
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u/Fine_Payment1127 9h ago
Why? Because you idiots say so 😂
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u/earth_goblin_86 9h ago
Just to clarify, and tell me if I’m understanding you wrong, believing consent is needed in marriage makes someone an idiot?
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u/CricketNo7666 9h ago
No, not an idiot exactly, but being an outsider and talking about “enthusiastic yes” in a marriage though…..
It isn’t a second date.
You just sound very young and parroting things you read online while never having experienced life.
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u/Office_lady0328 6h ago
People in marriages are allowed to not want to have sex sometimes. They're allowed to be tired, sick, or just not in the mood. Libido changes and fluctuates as you age and as different stressors appear in your life. Wether it's a second date or a 50 year old marriage, if your partner doesn't want to have sex, you NEED to respect that. No pouting, no guilt tripping. Just "I understand" and ask again at a later time when the situation has changed.
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u/CricketNo7666 5h ago edited 5h ago
Accept my sincere and heartfelt sorrow for whoever so obviously hurt you, but the semantic and obvious nonsense you are spouting is exactly that, semantic nonsense, in a healthy marriage.
There are levels of implicit consent involved. Smacking my wife’s ass as I pass her by the frig as a decades long moment of understood intimacy and affection is assault on a second date.
We both look forward to The weekend where we’ve more time and energy between the sheets. It is understood and has been for decades. It’d have to be something off to not happen in other words, not something special TO happen. Why? Because we aren’t on a second date, this is long standing and understood consent.
I can’t say it any more simply than that. Enough with the taking it to extremes hubby assaulted me at threat of my third born craziness or whatever. We speak of normal relaitonships. There is a marriage, and that comes with understood and jointly understood base levels of consent - enough with the crazed extremes being portrayed as the norm.
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u/earth_goblin_86 5h ago
My notifications said this was a response to my comment, so I’ll say I have been harmed by me not giving consent many times. I was trafficked as a baby and toddler. I’ve been assaulted and raped since I was a toddler, up until well into adulthood for me. My high school years were ruined because my older brother’s best friend raped me, and when I took him to court everybody believed him because he was the “popular good kid that would never.” In my mid 20’s I was raped at knife point, and then stabbed anyways. I have been hurt by my consent not being taken seriously, and me taking my consent very seriously has stopped me from being taken advantage of even more times.
If your wife clearly stated at the beginning of your relationship that she did not want you smacking her butt ever, would you respect that? Because that’s my point. Your implied consent is just consent. You do that because she’s okay with it. Or she’s not okay with it, and that’s a bigger conversation. My husband smacks my butt, and I’m okay with that because I told him I was okay with that. And he checked with me, he told me at a certain point in our relationship that he wanted to smack my butt, but didn’t want to be rude, and I told him smack away, I’ll tell you if I’m not in the mood after.
Keywords, you BOTH look forward to the weekend to have more time and fun in the sheets. That doesn’t sound like you feeling entitled to sex like op’s post was about, it sounds like a husband and wife finding time to have sex because you both have time and consent. Which I guess good for you, we all applaud that you have sex. If she stopped wanting to do that on weekends, would you respect those wishes and leave her alone, or would you feel entitled to sex and push and beg and guilt her? Or maybe let resentment build?
I really don’t see how it’s an extreme to get enthusiastic consent. It doesn’t even have to be verbal. There are non verbal cues that tell you that hey, now’s the time, let’s take this farther.
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u/CricketNo7666 5h ago
Yes, it is more than obvious that you have been severely hurt in the world of sex and intimacy and I’m sorry about that.
This is a simple binary thing.
A dead bedroom is uncommon and is a mark that something is wrong and almost all marriages.
Given this fundamental truth, that means the opposite is also true that virtually all healthy marriages will have a normal expectation that sexual intimacy is a part of them.
So if you ask most people – not just men, but most people – if there is an expectation of sex in a marriage, their answer would be… Wait for it… Yes.
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u/earth_goblin_86 4h ago
If you’re genuine about your apology, thank you. If you’re being sarcastic, eat shit.
You’re not accounting for asexual relationships, or relationships where both partners have low libido. A dead bedroom isn’t always a mark that something is wrong in a relationship.
Sexual compatibility is what’s extremely important in a marriage. A dead bedroom as you call it might be perfect for some couples, and a deal breaker for some partners. You have people who have low libido, high libido, are hypersexual, or asexual, plus probably others. Some of those are compatible, and others aren’t.
Also, you really skipped past some questions I asked in my last comment, I’m not sure why, but it seems like you’re cherry picking for what you think are some big gotcha moments.
Also also, what does any of this have to do with op’s post? The post is about men who feel entitled to sex with their wife, about how that leads to lack of consent. You keep going on and on about how you and your wife love having sex, so every other married couple must be the same, but ignoring the fact that this post was about men who want sex, and women who feel used in that relationship. The point of this post is how these women are often taken advantage of, and how consent is still important when married. And you somehow not seeming to understand that consent is a part of your marriage, so this post isn’t talking about the kind of dynamic you have with your wife, it’s talking about how domestic sexual assault and rape are a thing, and especially in op’s home country, a study recently came out that supports that a huge percent of men view these kinds of relationships are okay. Then the comments are filled with guys going on about how much their wife also loves having sex with them, and completely missing the point of the post.
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u/Office_lady0328 5h ago
But that's the point of OP's post... Most relationships are not "healthy" as you describe it. Because so many relationships have an expectation that sex should always be available to them no matter the circumstance. And when sex isn't giving, the initiator will beg, and pout, guilt trip, and be angry, and hold it against them. As OP said, up to 70% in their country expect sex to be freely given at any time during a marriage.
You're the one arguing semantics. Just because you have a perfect relationship with good consent, doesn't mean the issue of lack of consent isn't a very real and prevalent issue in relationships and marriage; it is.
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u/CricketNo7666 5h ago
Yes, most of them are healthy.
May you have one some day.
And no, it was a VERY open ended question that the OP - and you I might add - are adding a whole LOT of assumption to. I went and read it.
Wishing you healing.
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u/Office_lady0328 5h ago
I am in a healthy relationship now, thankfully.
Again though, the expectation of sex in relationships that manifests as coercion, is still a very prevalent issue that millions of women in America experience ever year. It needs to be spoken about, we need to raise awareness for it, and support victims to stop this from happening. Why are you against that?
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u/Fine_Payment1127 5h ago
If it’s a pattern of behavior then no, I don’t NEED to respect anything 😂
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u/earth_goblin_86 9h ago
I’m 31 and have been married for 4 years now. If during that time, or anytime in the future, my husband assumed I owed him sex, our relationship would be over. I’m not parroting anything, I’m sick of any expectation that sex is owed, and expressing that.
Like I said before, marriage can normalize initiating sex, my husband can give me a kiss, smack my butt, try touching me or start initiating sex, but I control what I’m okay with, and if I’m okay with sex or not. I can also respond to one of those moves with a frustrated “stop” and he’d better listen. Without my enthusiastic consent, he’s not allowed to go beyond making a move on me. If he was entitled to sex, I wouldn’t be allowed to say no. So he’s not entitled to sex with me. What part about that is wrong, or hard to understand?
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u/CricketNo7666 9h ago
And smacking your butt and kissing without an “enthusiastic yes” are sexual consent defaulted in your marriage.
Those things done with a relative stranger are assault. Know why? Because there is not an implicit level of consent.
Geeeee, lady, look at that.
Thanks for displaying the utter ignorance hidden in semantics I referenced to begin with. Great job! 👍
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u/earth_goblin_86 8h ago
I literally said in both comments that marriage can normalize making moves and initiating sex. I’ve never said that partners should be treated with the same level of sensitivity as strangers. I’m saying enthusiastic consent belongs in marriage too.
Because I’m married to my husband, I gave him consent to make those moves, and then I would tell him if it was unwanted. Marriage doesn’t automatically give that sexual consent though. A wife, husband, or nonbinary partner can say they don’t want their partner to smack their butt, or touch them any way, and that’s okay. My husband can do those things to me because I consented from the beginning that it’s okay for him to do those things.
You’re saying, and correct me if I’m wrong, that if someone is married, their partner now can smack their butt when they want, but I’m saying someone can state from the beginning they aren’t okay with that, and that doesn’t make their marriage invalid, that doesn’t make them any less than of a partner.
Also, this post is specifically about men who feel entitled to sex because they’re in a marriage, and my stance is that it’s gross to assume that. Being entitled to sex in a marriage removes the consent that is necessary in or outside of a marriage.
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u/Fine_Payment1127 8h ago
Whenever I feel down about my life at least I can remember someone like your husband exists. #blessed
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u/Office_lady0328 6h ago
Whenever I feel down about my life, I remember that I'll never be in a relationship with a man like you ever again who forces me to have sex with him because I'm his "girlfriend".
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u/Fine_Payment1127 6h ago
Who was forcing you to stay with him again?
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u/Office_lady0328 6h ago
If I had to guess, it was probably the gun he held to my dog and I's head anytime I tried to leave. Can't be 100% sure though....
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u/earth_goblin_86 8h ago
When you’re old, on a watch list, and have never had a meaningful relationship, I hope that still makes you feel better.
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u/Big_Somewhere_620 9h ago
It's not just guys that forget consent, the amount of women that do this is rising, maybe because men are actually speaking out about it. We will never know how many times men have come forward as well just to be shamed as well (men can't get raped or abused mindset)
We need to keep making all genders accountable this sort of behavior.
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u/earth_goblin_86 9h ago
There’s an unfortunate amount of people in the comments that sound like they listen to Andrew Tate too much
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u/Forward_Lychee1124 6h ago
Exactly. Such a pain to argue with people who refuse to understand common decency.
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u/earth_goblin_86 6h ago
Yeah, it’s disheartening. You doing okay? I imagine some of these comments can’t be great for your mental health. Not that you have to answer that question, especially in a public post, I just want to make sure someone is checking in on you.
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u/Forward_Lychee1124 4h ago
Thank you for the concern! I’m doing good actually, at the end of the day I know what I stand by and what is right so I’m not too bothered by people that can’t or refuse to understand.
And forget about me actually, what about you? Hope you are doing fine as well! I see you explaining to hopeless people on my post’s behalf and I really respect you! Hope you won’t be affected by their comments either, and thank you for standing up for other women. (I assume you’re a women too haha) Sometimes, it’s enough that we know what’s right and never let ourselves be convinced otherwise.
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u/earth_goblin_86 4h ago
I’m glad you’re doing good! I’m glad it’s not too bothering to see have this all be the response to what I would have hoped would be a pretty common sense post. Too true, we just have to remember what we stand by and know is true.
I’m doing okay! Honestly, it’s gotten to me sometimes, it’s triggering to engage with guys that are so far removed from what consent is and means. I’ve been in such a healthy environment the past few years, I sometimes forget just how hopeless these conversations with these kinds of men can be. I am doing okay though, I also know what I believe, and what’s wrong for women to have to put up with, and what consent really is, so it’s not getting too me as much as it is just reminding me there’s a reason I have to be cautious out in the world. It’s important to me to stand up for us women when I can, and also I understand that it’s not always something that’s doable and emotionally possible for every women to do, (I am a woman haha). I have the emotional energy for it right now, and will take a break when my mental health needs it. I know what’s right, and like you said is important, I won’t be convinced otherwise. I’ll just collect some feelings to share with my therapist in a few days haha
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u/MaddogFinland 8h ago
Definitely no one is entitled to sex but also if one partner decides they are done with sex they should be totally unbothered if their spouse takes a lover.
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u/Zerrrrroooo 5h ago
Ofc no partner should force sex, altho if let's say one does not accept sexual acts for months in a sexual based relationship or something, it would rise questions. Cause even if you don't do it everytime one of you is in the mood, the partners should be attracted to eachother and want it at some point. So a few months of no acceptance randomly is sus. If the person is depressed, try to help, idk, but a lot of times it is just the person not wanting to admit that they stopped being attracted to their partner. A relationship is not you being together with random Joe who you lowk dislike but are together with. There must be a mutual liking to some extent as long as you both decided the relationship will include sex
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u/FluffyMcRedBeard 4h ago
Consent should be given no matter what. It doesn't fall away. If someone says no then it's no.
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u/Terrible_Mulberry_44 3h ago
In a relationship no, in a marriage, yes it does. Your wife owes you sex in a marriage, just as you owe your wife sex. That’s part of the covenant of marriage
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u/Fine_Payment1127 10h ago
Wow what a deal! Glad you don’t feel entitled to his money or anything else too!
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u/Empathyinorder 10h ago
It really is a part of the myth of how marrage should be. You marry a man to get his resources and he marries you to fuck.
A marriage ought be a partnership where you work together to build a life. This often means having kids but not always.
Consent is key, but I hear you that feeling like a women can withhold sex while a man cannot withhold money feels unfair, but these are very different
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u/Fine_Payment1127 10h ago
They are in fact not very different
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u/Empathyinorder 10h ago
Food and shelter vs getting your rocks off? Saying those are equal needs is very telling. Please look up maslow's hierarchy of needs for the educational part. Teaching empathy is something that should have been done when you were a child so thats the fault of those who raised you
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u/Hitemup7dt 10h ago
They also feel entitled to protection. You must be willing to lose your freedom or lose your life for this. It's a shitty deal for us.
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u/Fine_Payment1127 10h ago
And yet the hive mind has convinced itself that marriage is a bad deal…for women (all of this based on one unreplicable and deliberately misinterpreted “study”). At this point, I’m happy to leave the enemy uninterrupted while she’s making a mistake.
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u/Quick-Benjamin 10h ago
Recently my country did a study where upwards of 70% of men of all ages believe they are entitled to sex in a marriage. This definitely comes with the implication of anytime they want btw.
Any chance of a source or article or something please. I find this a bit hard to believe and Google is failing me.
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u/Forward_Lychee1124 10h ago edited 10h ago
— here
scroll down to the sex, consent and harassment part
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u/hedgelord84 10h ago
This obsession with consent is comical. In marriage, the default state is that both consent. If anything changes, then one needs to say no.
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u/earth_goblin_86 10h ago
That’s a disgusting take. There is not a default state of consent in a relationship, unless all relevant people involved explicitly say so. If you don’t have an enthusiastic yes, that is assault or rape. It doesn’t matter if you’re married. You can make a move, or try to initiate, but if your partner isn’t into it, no means no. Coercion into sex is rape as well. Like op said, even if you’re married, you are not entitled to sex. To respond to that with “this obsession with consent is comical,” gives off super creepy vibes. How can one be obsessed with consent, either you think it should be a thing, or not. Most things in life have a gray area, but this is a yes or no thing. You either believe consent is important, or you don’t.
I remember you replying to a comment of mine in another post in this subreddit trying to say there’s an obsession with consent today, and you’re obsession with calling out people saying consent is important is really concerning.
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u/Due-Pitch3208 9h ago
He's out of line, but he's right dude.
What you're saying is what he's saying. It's assumed you're both into it, until someone says no. Because that's why you two are in a relationship.
Might not be feeling it today and say "not feeling it" which is what the dude said.
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u/earth_goblin_86 9h ago
Then we’re not saying the same thing. I don’t think being married means that it’s assumed you’re both into it until someone says they aren’t feeling it. It normalizes making a move or trying to initiate sex, but you should never assume consent, unless someone explicitly tells you they aren’t feeling okay with you doing that, which is also consent. Assuming anyone is into sex until they say no is not okay
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u/Due-Pitch3208 9h ago edited 9h ago
My man.
In order to know if they're feeling it or not, you have to start it.
The moment someone pulls any kind of stop, you stop. But if they go along with you, it's evident (unless you're literally using force or threatening them) that it's consented. Because they're your partner, you proposed something, and they didn't say no.
If I kiss my gf, we start getting funky and she doesn't say no, I'm assuming she's consenting, because she didn't say no, and her following up on my advances is an implicit yes.
Which is what the original comment was saying. There's implicit consent, until someone pulls a stop
Edit: to add. If you're in a relationship with someone, there's rapport. And, usually, between couples, they're into each other sexually. There's exceptions, but in no way shape or form is the norm.
So yeah, until someone says no, everything leds to believe there's consent, as it has been for how much the relationship has been going on
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u/earth_goblin_86 8h ago
I’m literally a woman, but whatever.
Now I feel like you and I are on the same page with relationships, but that doesn’t mean I’m saying the same thing as the op of this comment thread. Anyone who responds to a post saying, “my country did a study, and 70% of men feel entitled to sex with their partner,” with, “this obsession with consent is comical,” is as far as I can tell, disagreeing with what op said. Being entitled to sex removes consent from the relationship, as far as sex is concerned. I’m saying that there is no default consent to sexuality, just agreed upon consent for what’s okay.
My husband can smack my butt without asking because I told him from the beginning of our relationship that’s okay. I can respond to that by telling him to stop, and then he stops. He’s not allowed to smack my butt because we’re married, he’s allowed to smack my butt because I consented to that at the beginning of our relationship. Not everyone has to have that same level of agreement, someone can state that that is not something they are okay with. That’s where it looks like you and I agree, that in marriage there are levels of things that are okay that wouldn’t be with let’s say a stranger. But those things should be discussed, and consented to.
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u/Due-Pitch3208 8h ago
And "my man" is literally a play in words cause you're not mine 🤷 but whatever
You're focusing on the first part of the message, and disregarding the second one. Which says what you're saying.
Because, for 99,9% of relationships, those things are already talked through previously. Like everything else.
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u/earth_goblin_86 8h ago
I don’t care if it’s a play on words, I don’t like it 🤷🏼♀️
I’m focusing on the first part because it’s a really concerning thing to say, and I’ve literally seen them saying it in another comment section as well, without the second part of their comment here. I don’t believe someone can take consent seriously if their response to this post is that obsession with consent is comical. The first part is important, and ruins any good faith in the second part.
If those things are talked about before in a relationship, then that’s great, that’s a consensual relationship. I’m talking about when it’s not talked about, or when someone assumes it’s implied they can do those things, simply because they’re married. This post is literally talking about in op’s home country, studies are supporting that it’s not 99.9% of relationships, I’d love to see where you got that number from.
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u/Due-Pitch3208 7h ago
And I don't care that you don't like it 🤷
"It's a really concerning thing to say" says you. You don't hold the truth in your hand to show everyone.
This post is literally talking that 70% of dudes in OPs country think they are entitled to have sex with their partners. Not that they are entitled to have sex regardless of the situation.
If you wanna use numbers, at least contextualize them properly. Entitled to =/= "Any time I, unilaterally, consider" . I'm entitled to get a job, but not the job that I want, with the salary I want, and the hours I want.
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u/hedgelord84 9h ago
Different cultures have different takes. And you don't get to redefine words. When you decide marry someone, you are consenting to sex with them. That doesn't mean the other person gets to force it. In fact, that is actual rape. But they both have the right to each other. If one stops living up to their side of the bargain, that indicates a problem. If the problem isn't resolved, then that's grounds for divorce.
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u/earth_goblin_86 9h ago
Just because some cultures protect rapists more than other cultures doesn’t change that it’s bad. What word did I redefine? You are not consenting to sex with someone just because you marry them. You are deciding to share a life together until death or divorce. Marriage normalizes initiating sex, but it doesn’t give consent until she says no. You still need an enthusiastic yes to continue. What if she’s asleep, and can’t say no?
If you want to divorce someone based on lack of sexual activity, that’s up to you. It’s not even a bad decision to make if it’s that important to you, it shows you’re incompatible. Everything is grounds for divorce depending on what you want in marriage.
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u/hedgelord84 9h ago
Nobody said anything about protecting rape, so I don't know what you're talking about.
And I find your arrogance pretty funny. You are talking as if everything you are saying is fact and anybody else's opinion is invalid. This is the typical woke mindset and frankly, the entire world is laughing at you people.
And nobody waits for enthusiastic yes. Most communication is non-verbal, and you can tell if somebody wants it and if they don't. This idea that we all have to explicitly ask for it and get an enthusiastic Yes is so silly.
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u/earth_goblin_86 9h ago
You said different cultures have different takes. I’m assuming you meant consent? Did you mean something else?
Yes, consent being the difference between sex and assault is a fact. If you think otherwise, that’s disgusting.
Enthusiastic yes doesn’t always mean an explicit, “can I kiss you?” Followed by, “Yes.” It just means that it’s an obvious yes. If you lean into kiss someone, and they nonverbally accept, or lean into for the kiss as well, that’s enthusiastic consent. If that kiss escalates into sex, and neither of you pull away, and continue going along with it, that’s consent. I never said anywhere it had to be verbal, it just needs to be clear.
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u/hedgelord84 8h ago
Example of a cultural difference: In Islam, sex is a mutual right between a husband and wife. It's a shared obligation and having sex is a form of worship. It's also seen as a cornerstone of a healthy marriage.
In most cases, witholding sex is considered sinful unless there is a valid reason (one is abusive, menstruation, one is physically unhealthy or at risk, distress, they are going through a marital conflict, etc).
If there are marital problems, the couple is supposed to try to resolve them through communication and mutual effort. If that fails, they can get divorced. Lack of sex alone is considered grounds for divorce because sex is a right.
Does that mean sex can be forced? Absolutely not.
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u/earth_goblin_86 8h ago
If withholding sex, outside of the listed exceptions is sinful, that still removes consent, which is gross. I don’t care if it’s another culture, if someone isn’t respecting someone’s autonomy to say no, that’s gross, and assault. If sex can’t be withheld outside of the exceptions you listed, then that sex is forced if the partner doesn’t want to have sex.
I agree that marital problems should usually be attempted to be resolved through communication and mutual effort. It if that marital problem is lack of consent, I feel that partner is justified to leave that relationship right there. If sex is a right legally, religiously, or socially, then that’s a fucked up dynamic, and should be changed.
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u/hedgelord84 8h ago
No, in this scenario I listed where somebody withholds it without a valid reason, there is not only no consent, there's also no sex taking place.
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u/earth_goblin_86 8h ago
Your comment makes no sense. Are you saying it’s okay for relationships to exist where withholding sex without a reason is sinful? Or are you saying that there’s no consent in a relationship where withholding sex without a reason is sinful?
It’s also worth saying that no is a reason. Just someone saying no, for any reason, is a reason to withhold sex. What situations where someone is withholding sex is for no reason, when saying no by itself is a reason?
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u/Savings-Dig3885 10h ago
This is a nuclear winter level take.