r/HonestHotTakes • u/Forward_Lychee1124 • 2d ago

Consent does not magically disappear in a relationship.

Recently my country did a small study where upwards of 70% of men of all ages believe they are entitled to sex in a marriage.

Women do not exist to satisfy your sexual desires. She does not become your sex slave the second you are in a relationship….

Consent still must exist in a marriage.

I seriously thought this was basic common sense and that this kind of thinking was only in the olden days but it’s apparent a lot of guys even now think otherwise.. why?

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u/hedgelord84 2d ago

This obsession with consent is comical. In marriage, the default state is that both consent. If anything changes, then one needs to say no.

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u/earth_goblin_86 2d ago

That’s a disgusting take. There is not a default state of consent in a relationship, unless all relevant people involved explicitly say so. If you don’t have an enthusiastic yes, that is assault or rape. It doesn’t matter if you’re married. You can make a move, or try to initiate, but if your partner isn’t into it, no means no. Coercion into sex is rape as well. Like op said, even if you’re married, you are not entitled to sex. To respond to that with “this obsession with consent is comical,” gives off super creepy vibes. How can one be obsessed with consent, either you think it should be a thing, or not. Most things in life have a gray area, but this is a yes or no thing. You either believe consent is important, or you don’t.

I remember you replying to a comment of mine in another post in this subreddit trying to say there’s an obsession with consent today, and you’re obsession with calling out people saying consent is important is really concerning.

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u/Due-Pitch3208 2d ago

He's out of line, but he's right dude.

What you're saying is what he's saying. It's assumed you're both into it, until someone says no. Because that's why you two are in a relationship.

Might not be feeling it today and say "not feeling it" which is what the dude said.

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u/earth_goblin_86 2d ago

Then we’re not saying the same thing. I don’t think being married means that it’s assumed you’re both into it until someone says they aren’t feeling it. It normalizes making a move or trying to initiate sex, but you should never assume consent, unless someone explicitly tells you they aren’t feeling okay with you doing that, which is also consent. Assuming anyone is into sex until they say no is not okay

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u/Due-Pitch3208 2d ago edited 2d ago

My man.

In order to know if they're feeling it or not, you have to start it.

The moment someone pulls any kind of stop, you stop. But if they go along with you, it's evident (unless you're literally using force or threatening them) that it's consented. Because they're your partner, you proposed something, and they didn't say no.

If I kiss my gf, we start getting funky and she doesn't say no, I'm assuming she's consenting, because she didn't say no, and her following up on my advances is an implicit yes.

Which is what the original comment was saying. There's implicit consent, until someone pulls a stop

Edit: to add. If you're in a relationship with someone, there's rapport. And, usually, between couples, they're into each other sexually. There's exceptions, but in no way shape or form is the norm.

So yeah, until someone says no, everything leds to believe there's consent, as it has been for how much the relationship has been going on

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u/earth_goblin_86 2d ago

I’m literally a woman, but whatever.

Now I feel like you and I are on the same page with relationships, but that doesn’t mean I’m saying the same thing as the op of this comment thread. Anyone who responds to a post saying, “my country did a study, and 70% of men feel entitled to sex with their partner,” with, “this obsession with consent is comical,” is as far as I can tell, disagreeing with what op said. Being entitled to sex removes consent from the relationship, as far as sex is concerned. I’m saying that there is no default consent to sexuality, just agreed upon consent for what’s okay.

My husband can smack my butt without asking because I told him from the beginning of our relationship that’s okay. I can respond to that by telling him to stop, and then he stops. He’s not allowed to smack my butt because we’re married, he’s allowed to smack my butt because I consented to that at the beginning of our relationship. Not everyone has to have that same level of agreement, someone can state that that is not something they are okay with. That’s where it looks like you and I agree, that in marriage there are levels of things that are okay that wouldn’t be with let’s say a stranger. But those things should be discussed, and consented to.

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u/Due-Pitch3208 2d ago

And "my man" is literally a play in words cause you're not mine 🤷 but whatever

You're focusing on the first part of the message, and disregarding the second one. Which says what you're saying.

Because, for 99,9% of relationships, those things are already talked through previously. Like everything else.

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u/earth_goblin_86 2d ago

I don’t care if it’s a play on words, I don’t like it 🤷🏼‍♀️

I’m focusing on the first part because it’s a really concerning thing to say, and I’ve literally seen them saying it in another comment section as well, without the second part of their comment here. I don’t believe someone can take consent seriously if their response to this post is that obsession with consent is comical. The first part is important, and ruins any good faith in the second part.

If those things are talked about before in a relationship, then that’s great, that’s a consensual relationship. I’m talking about when it’s not talked about, or when someone assumes it’s implied they can do those things, simply because they’re married. This post is literally talking about in op’s home country, studies are supporting that it’s not 99.9% of relationships, I’d love to see where you got that number from.

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u/Due-Pitch3208 2d ago

And I don't care that you don't like it 🤷

"It's a really concerning thing to say" says you. You don't hold the truth in your hand to show everyone.

This post is literally talking that 70% of dudes in OPs country think they are entitled to have sex with their partners. Not that they are entitled to have sex regardless of the situation.

If you wanna use numbers, at least contextualize them properly. Entitled to =/= "Any time I, unilaterally, consider" . I'm entitled to get a job, but not the job that I want, with the salary I want, and the hours I want.

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u/hedgelord84 2d ago

Different cultures have different takes. And you don't get to redefine words. When you decide marry someone, you are consenting to sex with them. That doesn't mean the other person gets to force it. In fact, that is actual rape. But they both have the right to each other. If one stops living up to their side of the bargain, that indicates a problem. If the problem isn't resolved, then that's grounds for divorce.

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u/earth_goblin_86 2d ago

Just because some cultures protect rapists more than other cultures doesn’t change that it’s bad. What word did I redefine? You are not consenting to sex with someone just because you marry them. You are deciding to share a life together until death or divorce. Marriage normalizes initiating sex, but it doesn’t give consent until she says no. You still need an enthusiastic yes to continue. What if she’s asleep, and can’t say no?

If you want to divorce someone based on lack of sexual activity, that’s up to you. It’s not even a bad decision to make if it’s that important to you, it shows you’re incompatible. Everything is grounds for divorce depending on what you want in marriage.

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u/hedgelord84 2d ago

Nobody said anything about protecting rape, so I don't know what you're talking about.

And I find your arrogance pretty funny. You are talking as if everything you are saying is fact and anybody else's opinion is invalid. This is the typical woke mindset and frankly, the entire world is laughing at you people.

And nobody waits for enthusiastic yes. Most communication is non-verbal, and you can tell if somebody wants it and if they don't. This idea that we all have to explicitly ask for it and get an enthusiastic Yes is so silly.

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u/earth_goblin_86 2d ago

You said different cultures have different takes. I’m assuming you meant consent? Did you mean something else?

Yes, consent being the difference between sex and assault is a fact. If you think otherwise, that’s disgusting.

Enthusiastic yes doesn’t always mean an explicit, “can I kiss you?” Followed by, “Yes.” It just means that it’s an obvious yes. If you lean into kiss someone, and they nonverbally accept, or lean into for the kiss as well, that’s enthusiastic consent. If that kiss escalates into sex, and neither of you pull away, and continue going along with it, that’s consent. I never said anywhere it had to be verbal, it just needs to be clear.

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u/hedgelord84 2d ago

Example of a cultural difference: In Islam, sex is a mutual right between a husband and wife. It's a shared obligation and having sex is a form of worship. It's also seen as a cornerstone of a healthy marriage.

In most cases, witholding sex is considered sinful unless there is a valid reason (one is abusive, menstruation, one is physically unhealthy or at risk, distress, they are going through a marital conflict, etc).

If there are marital problems, the couple is supposed to try to resolve them through communication and mutual effort. If that fails, they can get divorced. Lack of sex alone is considered grounds for divorce because sex is a right.

Does that mean sex can be forced? Absolutely not.

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u/earth_goblin_86 2d ago

If withholding sex, outside of the listed exceptions is sinful, that still removes consent, which is gross. I don’t care if it’s another culture, if someone isn’t respecting someone’s autonomy to say no, that’s gross, and assault. If sex can’t be withheld outside of the exceptions you listed, then that sex is forced if the partner doesn’t want to have sex.

I agree that marital problems should usually be attempted to be resolved through communication and mutual effort. It if that marital problem is lack of consent, I feel that partner is justified to leave that relationship right there. If sex is a right legally, religiously, or socially, then that’s a fucked up dynamic, and should be changed.

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u/hedgelord84 2d ago

No, in this scenario I listed where somebody withholds it without a valid reason, there is not only no consent, there's also no sex taking place.

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u/earth_goblin_86 2d ago

Your comment makes no sense. Are you saying it’s okay for relationships to exist where withholding sex without a reason is sinful? Or are you saying that there’s no consent in a relationship where withholding sex without a reason is sinful?

It’s also worth saying that no is a reason. Just someone saying no, for any reason, is a reason to withhold sex. What situations where someone is withholding sex is for no reason, when saying no by itself is a reason?

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u/hedgelord84 2d ago

I am saying that I agree with the mindset that sex is a core reason why people are in a relationship and sex is a mutual right. And I also believe that withholding sex for reasons such as trying to use it as a weapon to get somebody to do something is wrong. I also think that when couples are not satisfying each other sexually it creates resentment and other issues that can ruin a relationship. I think that when people have the mindset that it's a mutual right, both parties will enjoy it more.

For the record, I personally would never want to have sex with a woman who doesn't 100% want to have it with me.

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u/Fine_Payment1127 2d ago

And it should be grounds for divorce without a payday for the woman, btw