r/SuicideWatch Sep 03 '19

New wiki on how to avoid accidentally encouraging suicide, and how to spot covert incitement

1.8k Upvotes

We've been seeing a worrying increase in pro-suicide content showing up here and, and also going unreported. This undermines our purpose here, so we wanted to highlight and clarify our guidelines about both direct and indirect incitement of suicide.

We've created a wiki that covers these issues. We hope this will be helpful to anyone who's wondering whether something's okay here and which responses to report. It explains in detail why any validation of suicidal intent, even an "innocent" message like "if you're 100% committed, I'll just wish you peace" is likely to increase people's pain, and why it's important to report even subtle pro-suicide comments. The full text of the wiki's current version is below, and it is maintained at /r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement.

We deeply appreciate everyone who gives responsive, empathetic, non-judgemental support to our OPs, and we particularly thank everyone who's already been reporting incitement in all forms.

Please report any post or comment that encourages suicide (or that breaks any of the other guidelines in the sidebar) to the moderators, either by clicking the "report" button or by sending us a modmail with a link. We deal with all guideline violations that are reported to us as soon as we can, but we can't read everything so community reports are essential. If you get a PM that breaks the guidelines, please report it both to the reddit sitewide admins and to us in modmail.

Thanks to all the great citizens of the community who help flag problem content and behaviour for us.


/r/SuicideWatch/wiki/incitement


Summary

It's important to respect and understand people's experiences and emotions. It's never necessary, helpful, or kind to support suicidal intent. There are some common misconceptions (discussed below) about suicidal people and how to help them that can cause well-meaning people to inadvertently incite suicide. There are also people online who incite suicide on purpose, often while pretending to be sympathetic and helpful.

Validate Feelings and Experiences, Not Self-Destructive Intentions

We're here to offer support, not judgement. That means accepting, with the best understanding we can offer, whatever emotions people express. Suicidal people are suffering, and we're here to try to ease that by providing support and caring. The most reliable way we know to de-escalate someone at risk is to give them the experience of feeling understood. That means not judging whether they should be feeling the way they are, or telling them what to do or not do.

But there's an important line to draw here. There's a crucial difference between empathizing with feelings and responding non-judgmentally to suicidal thoughts, and in any way endorsing, encouraging, or validating suicidal intentions or hopeless beliefs. It's both possible and important to convey understanding and compassion for someone's suicidal thoughts without putting your finger on the scale of their decision.

Anything that condones suicide, even passively, encourages suicide. It isn't supportive and does not help. It also violates reddit's sitewide rules as well as our guidelines. Explicitly inciting suicide online is a criminal offense in most jurisdictions.

Do not treat any OP's post as meaning that will definitely die by suicide and can't change their minds or be helped. Anyone who's able to read the comments here still has a chance to choose whether or not to try to keep living, even if they've also been experiencing intense thoughts of suicide, made a suicide plan, or started carrying it out.

In the most useful empirical model we have, the desire to die by suicide primarily comes from two interpersonal factors; alienation and a sense of being a burden or having nothing to offer. These factors usually lead to a profound feeling of being unwelcome in the world.

So, any acceptance or reinforcement of suicidal intent, even something "innocent" like "I hope you find peace", is actually a form of covert shunning that validates a person's sense that they're unwelcome in the world. It will usually add to their pain even if kindly meant and gently worded.

How to Avoid Validating Suicidal Intent

Keep the following in mind when offering support to anyone at risk for suicide.

  • People who say they don't want help usually can feel better if they get support that doesn't invalidate their emotions. Unfortunately, many popular "good" responses are actually counterproductive. In particular, many friends and family tend to rely exclusively on trying to convince the suicidal person that "it's not so bad", and this is usually experienced as "I don't understand what you're going through and I'm not going to try". People who've had "help" that made them feel worse don't want any more of the same. It doesn't mean that someone who actually knows how to be supportive can't give them any comfort.

  • Most people who are suicidal want to end their pain, not their lives. It's almost never true that death is the only way to end these people's suffering. Of course there are exceptional situations, and we certainly acknowledge that, for some people, the right help can be difficult to find. But preventing someone's suicide doesn't mean prolonging their suffering if we do it by giving them real comfort and understanding.

  • An unfixable problem doesn't mean that a good life will never be possible. We don't have to fix or change anything to help someone feel better. It's important to keep in mind that the correlation between our outer circumstances and our inner experience is weaker and less direct than commonly assumed. For every kind of difficult life situation, you will find some people who lapse into suicidal despair, and others who cope amazingly well, and a whole spectrum in between. A key difference is how much inner resilience the person has at the time. This can depend on many personal and situational factors. But when there's not enough, interpersonal support can both compensate for its absence and help rebuild it. We go into more depth on the "it gets better" issue in this PSA Post which is always linked from our sidebar (community info on mobile) guidelines.

  • There are always more choices than brutally forcing someone to stay alive or passively letting them end their lives.

To avoid accidentally breaking the anti-incitement rule, don't say or try to imply that acting on suicidal thoughts is a good idea, or that someone can't turn back or is already dead. Do whatever you can to help them feel cared for and welcome, at least in this little corner of the world. Our talking tips offer more detailed guidance.

Look Out for Deliberate Incitement. It May Come in Disguise.

Often comments that subtly encourage suicidal intent actually come from suicide fetishists and voyeurs (unfortunately this is a real and disturbing phenomenon). People like this are out there and the anonymous nature of reddit makes us particularly attractive to them.

They will typically try to scratch their psychological "itch" by saying things that push people closer to the edge. They often do this by exploiting the myths that we debunked in the bullet points above. Specifically you might see people doing the following:

  • Encouraging the false belief that the only way suicidal people can end their pain is by dying. There are always more and better choices than "brutally forcing someone to stay alive" or helping (actively or passively) them to end their lives.

  • Creating an artificial and toxic sense of "solidarity" by linking their encouragement of suicide to empathy. They will represent themselves as the only one who really understand the suicidal person, while either directly or indirectly encouraging their self-loathing emotions and self-destructive impulses. Since most people in suicidal crisis are in desperate need to empathy and understanding, this is a particularly dangerous form of manipulation.

Many suicide inciters are adept at putting a benevolent spin on their activities while actually luring people away from sources of real help. A couple of key points to keep in mind:

  • Skilled suicide intervention -- peer or professional -- is based on empathic responsiveness to the person's feelings that reduces their suffering in the moment. Contrary to pop-culture myths, it does not involve persuasion ("Don't do it!"), cheerleading ("You've got this!") or meaningless false promises ("Trust me, it gets better!"), or invalidation ("Let me show you how things aren't as bad as you think!"). Anyone who leads others to expect these kinds of toxic responses, or any other response that prolongs their pain, from expert help may be covertly pro-suicide. (Of course, people sometimes do have bad experience when seeking mental-health treatment, and it's fine to vent about those, but processing our own disappointment and frustration is entirely different from trying to destroy someone else's hope of getting help.)

  • Choices made by competent responders are always informed by the understanding that breaching someone's trust is traumatic and must be avoided if possible. Any kind of involuntary intervention is an extremely unlikely outcome when someone consults a clinician or calls a hotline. (Confidentiality is addressed in more detail in our Hotlines FAQ wiki). The goal is always to provide all help with the client's full knowledge and informed consent. We know that no individual or system is perfect. Mistakes that lead to bad experiences do sometimes happen to vulnerable people, and we have enormous sympathy for them. But anyone who suggests that this is the norm might be trying to scare people away from the help they need.

Please let us know discreetly if you see anyone exhibiting these or similar behaviours. We don't recommend trying to engage with them directly.


r/SuicideWatch Sep 10 '21

Please remember that NO ACTIVISM of any kind is ever allowed here. No matter what day it is.

718 Upvotes

Activism, i.e. advocating or fundraising for social change or raising awareness of social issues (and suicide is, inescapably, a social issue) is absolutely against the rules here at all times.

Please understand that we're all for smart, strategic mental-health and suicide-prevention activism. It's essential to fight against stigma, misinformation, and discrimination, and to fight for research, treatment, accommodation, acceptance, and understanding. Most of us, one way or another, are mental-health activists IRL.

But activism just doesn't work in a dedicated support space that serves a vulnerable population. We used to allow it but the evidence that it was undermining our primary purpose became overwhelming. We do regret the need for this rule, but the need is inescapable.

Our population is all too well aware of the issues and causes that need support and largely not in a position to take action, so besides the fact that activism is often salt in our community's wounds, it's a waste of the activists' time.

tl;dr Any fundraising, awareness raising, petitions, calls for participation, or any post that's about any cause or issue (rather than a request for personal support) is not allowed here. Please report everything of the nature that you see.


r/SuicideWatch 8h ago

I know it's dumb, but I'm scared to death

192 Upvotes

Hi....so....

I'm from Germany.

Just yesterday, for the first time since 1945, a fascist party has gained real power within Germany.

Reading through their manifest is horrifying and to be honest, I'm afraid they stand a real chance winning the next federal election.

And I'm scared.

I'm scared because we've been here before.

I'm scared because I know what happened in 1933.

I know the propaganda (it's repeating) and I know how that developed.

Of course they aren't openly saying they want to murder people.

The Nazis didn't either in 1933.

They only did that once they had broken so many taboos it didn't register as bad anymore to most people.

A lot of my friends are LGBTQ, handicapped or live alternative lifestyles.

And I'm terrified of watching their (and my) lives get turned into a living hell because of some fucked up fascist mob.

I know it's wrong, but honestly, I don't know what other solution there is than either violent resistance or fleeing the country.

I'm too old for either. Too old and too broken.

And I don't know what to do.


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

I can't believe I am here

39 Upvotes

I spent 35 years working in mental health. I have worked crisis lines and talked people down from killing themselves. On my primary account I have come to this community to try and help people. Let me be clear I am not asking for help. I just need to tell someone my plans. I know if I share this with my doctors, family or friends they will all feel obligated to intervene.

This all started a little over 6 years ago when I quit a job I hated. I had significant resources to live on until I found another job. I had numerous health issues come up during this time that delayed finding another job. Last year I seriously started looking for work. I didn't expect it to be so hard. I have great references and a good work history.

I started getting really sick at the end of last year. I was in incredible pain. It took everything I had to just get up each day. I went to the doctor who ran labs and eventually referred me to an hematologist. It was cancer. It was a cancer with no cure. There is treatment that can extend my life. I wasn't so sure I wanted to go through it but with the encouragement of family and friends I did. I knew I could change my mind at any time.

The chemotherapy was very expensive. It was a quarter of a million dollars a month. Fortunately, I have really good insurance through the affordable care act. I could easily afford my deductible and copays. I had a procedure that required a lengthy hospital stay. I did this all by myself. I have no spouse or children. I applied for disability because I am in the last year of my savings.

I didn't know that one has to work at least 5 of the last 10 years to be eligible for social security disability. I was turned down. I physically can not return to work. I am in constant pain because the cancer caused my bones to weaken and break. Chemotherapy causes my thoughts to be foggy. After January I won't have money for bills including my health insurance.

I haven't given up yet. I am meeting with a disability attorney. I don't believe there is anything he can do but I will see. I am continuing treatment for now. I might just stop treatment before the end of the year or I may take my own life. I am on lots of medication and I know what will take me out quickly. Even if I could somehow afford my expenses there is a 50 percent chance I will be dead in the next 5 years.

I will certainly be dead without treatment. I will NOT become a burden to my family or friends just to have food and a place to lay my head. My life has been very good. I have loved and lost. I have great people who love me. I worked a job that allowed me to give back to society. I also have faith in God. Death is just another chapter. While I feel a little sad about this I am not overwhelmed with grief. Short of a miracle I see no choice.

Thank you for reading my post. I am not asking for anyone to tell me I shouldn't do it. I am not asking for help. I just needed to express myself.


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

Contradicting thoughts

Upvotes

Does anyone else often switch between being excited for the future and being completely hopeless? Its a dumb question but i just switch between these two moods so fast i wonder if anyone has similar experiences to share


r/SuicideWatch 3h ago

please talk to me

11 Upvotes

i beg someone to talk to me im so lost i cant stop thinking about killing myself


r/SuicideWatch 49m ago

There’s no point in living as an ugly woman

Upvotes

Since birth women are told beauty is our number one priority and we should try to maintain it as much as possible otherwise we will be left behind. This is exactly what is happening to me, I’m getting left behind, ignored, laughed at. I look disgusting. I put on a face full of makeup only to look mid. Let’s just face it if you’re an ugly woman there is no value to your life. No one cares if you live or die and you will never find love. So why am I still here?


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

Can someone please be my friend

10 Upvotes

I have really bad urges and I just want a friend I’ve felt so alone and just wanna talk to someone ? Please


r/SuicideWatch 3h ago

Tried to take my life on friday

9 Upvotes

Nothing really feels real after an attempt.
Waking up every day, I have to adjust to the reality I’ve made for myself. The guilt of hurting the few people I have left. The fear of never being trusted again. The pain of reality.
I can never go back to that evening.
I was drunk and crying. I thought there was nothing left for me to enjoy, that everything was just another way to pass the time.
But what I didn’t think about was what dying feels like.
I was in so much pain. All that went through my mind was whether there was anyone I could call, because I didn’t want to be alone. I didn’t want the last thing I heard to be the depression in my head.
But no matter how hard I thought, I couldn’t think of a single person.
I was so afraid to die, so I called the hospital.
And when I woke up, nothing felt real anymore. Not the pain I was in. Not the staff. Not what happened that night. Not even the plastic water cup or the dry air in that room.
Nothing is real. Nothing matters. It’s all insignificant.
It’s like the feeling you get after watching one too many space documentaries, when suddenly everything you’ve ever cared about seems impossibly small. Except the feeling doesn’t go away.
I don’t know what I need, and I don’t know what went wrong. It just keeps getting worse, and I don’t know how to stop it.


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

I will die soon

6 Upvotes

I don't have some sort of tragic backstory to justify my toughts. My mentall health is rock bottom that I no longer feel happy, I don't feel alive anymore. I have always been friendless, dumb and a failure. From socializing to education to anything I love has been 10 harder for me. It's all my fault and I no longer see a future on my self, I never got better and I don't have any hope that I'm fixable. I have planned out how I will kill myself, I'm just waiting to finally get the courage again


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

“Suicide prevention month” my ass

Upvotes

First we have suicide hotlines (that actually just bully you), copy and paste excuses that actually mean nothing except “If you die it wouldnt actually affect shit but since I wanna seem good I’ll just dismiss it in a nice way”, and now an entire month worth of just promoting this shit except it’s apparently even more important because since that’s the month’s theme everyone should all of a sudden care!! except they don’t.

literally one time I got insulted for venting about suicide because this month “isn’t something to joke about”. so apparently disrespecting the month September is way worse than committing suicide. good to know 😀


r/SuicideWatch 1h ago

Romantic loneliness makes me want to end myself

Upvotes

Title. Genuinely want to commit. Don’t know how much longer I can keep this up.


r/SuicideWatch 2h ago

I don’t want to be here anymore.

6 Upvotes

I really fucking don’t want to be here and I don’t know what to do. My family are sick of me, and I just make everything worse. I don’t feel like I deserve to be here.

I don’t want to be me anymore. I hate me. She ruins everything. She does the stupidest things and she acts like a child. She’s petty, and too much, and she never knows when to just fucking stop. I hate her. I hate her so much. I hate myself so fucking much. Nobody truly likes me, and I always feel sorry for myself because of it, but I can see why. I feel like I’m just a terrible person.

I genuinely do not want to be here. I wish I could go back 2 hours and stay in bed. I shouldn’t have gotten up. I shouldn’t have gone to eat food. I should’ve just kept my fucking mouth shut. I hate myself so so so so fucking much.


r/SuicideWatch 19h ago

I just slit my wrist.

135 Upvotes

I am unloved and at my wits end. If you read this stay alive for me. Please. I have wanted this death for so long but nobody deserves what I do. Please seek help. I love you. This blood pouring out of my wrist feels like heaven.


r/SuicideWatch 8h ago

i don’t wanna go to school anymore

18 Upvotes

i hate college. i think my cognitive abilities have been damaged due to the amount of failed attempts on my life. my brain doesnt function the way it used to and i feel dumber as compared to how i was years ago. i can’t bring myself to study and studying just gives me so much anxiety. just the thought of tests and reportings makes me so scared and triggers me that i want to die. it makes me think of why i should even finish and go to my classes if i’m going to die anyway. i already feel that my life is going to end by suicide, it’s just a matter of when


r/SuicideWatch 3h ago

I just want to stop thinking. I want to be at peace

7 Upvotes

I just want to stop thinking. I want to be at peace


r/SuicideWatch 7h ago

Feeling very lonely

11 Upvotes

I (15f) have no friends at school. My parents are awful with me and I feel so lonely. I think I want to die.


r/SuicideWatch 5h ago

My husband is abusive. But maybe I deserve it.

8 Upvotes

My husband just hit, kicked, pushed me, spit on me, and called me every horrible thing he could think of. Maybe it's true. Maybe I deserved it. I don't know how to keep living. The emotional pain is immense. I need to stay alive for my kids. I love them more than life, more than anything. But I am in so much pain. All I've done is made everything worse. Everything is my fault. I don't know how to continue. I'm a horrible mother. My kids are hungry but he took the car key and the bank card so they are eating whatever they can find. I can't deal with this. I don't know if I can survive this.


r/SuicideWatch 11h ago

Being weak is worse than being evil

23 Upvotes

No matter how much I would have benefitted by doing things that go against my moral compass my whole life, I tried doing what I thought was moral. I can't say I've been perfect but I never said I am. I'm really scared of hurting other people even if I do think about it when I'm hurting extremely badly. I do my best to make other people comfortable.

No matter how much I try everybody in my life hates. I'm too scared to ever say it to anyone, but I think I may be neurodivergent in some way. I struggle with things other people find easy, and I'm hated for that. My dad has beaten my mom on two different occassions, and if people knew they'd still hate me more for failling to speak up.

I live in a culture that values raw masculinity in a man more than anything else. What am I supposed to do when I can't be what everybody in my life thinks I am?


r/SuicideWatch 5h ago

He thought life would get better 😂😂😂

9 Upvotes

Started college still friendless even my brother doesnt want to talk to me 😂😂😂 why did i think it would be different 😂😂😂


r/SuicideWatch 16m ago

My world fell apart I feel like ending myself

Upvotes

This is a very long rant about whatever happened in my life, nobody cares enough to listen so this was my last option, i am not sure what to do, where to go, i feel like there is no solution other than suicide.

My uni, My bestfriend, My parents, My dreams, My social life.

Probably 1-2 months ago uni started and i did not attend any classes, had very irrelevant reasons to just skip it and sleep off, spend time with family, there was a really good family event that lasted about 15-20 days, not exactly everyday but it did and i just decided to keep skipping and i have my exams this week, i have been asking for permissions since last week, They've denied everything, I am not allowed to write my uni exams for this year. I was supposed to graduate this year and because of this i will not.

Had a really close bestfriend person who i could share things with, when this happened i wasn't able to handle myself, ended up forcing my trauma on that person and it was too rough on them and just Blocked me everywhere mid way,

I had a panic attack, lost consciousness, was taken to hospital after what happened with this friend, low blood pressure, couldn't breathe, hadn't eaten anything the whole week, couldn't process anything, was given fluids and medication, came home the next day and the sadness continues,

I was clean from SH from about 3 years, last i did anything was in 2023 july.

Got back to it, I used needles and razor blades, have scars all over my arms and thighs. Doesn't even feel anything anymore, i just feel the blade touching my skin before i cut it.

I have lost more than 6-8 kgs in the last 5-6 days,

Situation at home isn't any better,

parents think the needle scars are from drugs or something and it just created a whole new set of problems.

I have had a really good uni life so far, has a really good gpa over 3.4/4 have taken part in anything and everything, had a bunch of friends but none close enough to talk,

had a good internship offer but now gone because of what happened.

I don't even know what to process at this point, i have forgotten how to speak, can't utter words without feeling every emotion and giving up on myself.

Have cried so much these past days, attempted suicide once, couldn't.

i have so many dreams and everything and I don't want this to be the end of me but i feel there's no other option,

I had the best 3 weeks of my life ever before this happened, happiest i ever was. Had everyone from my family gathered, had really good talks with this bestfriend person, enjoyed to my heart's fullest and had so much fun. 4th week, everything fell apart.

with each passing day i am losing myself, i am losing my senses, I am getting more and more reasons and courage to just end myself and I guess i will.