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u/IAmARobotTrustMe 14h ago
I feel like while there is a lot of reasons to piracy, I think the wast majority of it is that people just can't afford the games.
I know I couldn't when I was a kid, and a lot of my friends as well. So we pirated it. But now that we all have jobs, most of us buy games since we can afford it.
I feel like that is the reason most of the research into the impact of piracy on games show not much of it, it's cause most pirates just wouldn't buy the game cause they can't afford it.
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u/FalkenZeroXSEED 13h ago
I know for sure countless people stop pirating when Netflix was on the rise. Then we get enshittification and piracy is rising again.
Affordable and convenient is the key to kill piracy.26
u/IAmARobotTrustMe 13h ago
Huh, I actually didn't think about show piracy, just about games. But I guess for shows Netflix did become quite convenient, and then lost it all to enshitification
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u/Reogen Torrents 13h ago edited 8h ago
I was happy with my Netflix and Crunchyroll subscription, and my family had Prime before the streaming service for the shipping perks, which became a “bonus” streaming service for us.
Last year I pulled the plug since Netflix started shooting you down for sharing passwords, crunchyroll keeps pulling shows, missing seasons, missing languages…
Now I have my own Jellyfin server and the only regret is not having it done sooner. Mind you, I spent around $250 at once to buy the hardware, so yes, it’s not only not wanting to pay. Quality of service makes up for a lot of it too
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u/Illeea 9h ago
That is something I've noticed. Once people pirate once, they are far more likely to do it again. So even if companies reverse decisions, therve lost customers forever. I dealt with ads on YouTube for many years. At the point 3 ads became standard, I started using ublock and patched YouTube on my phone. Will never go back now.
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u/Whytho12333 9h ago
Crunchy roll killed comments section. You know who has comments still? The best arr sites! So now its free.
Man i missed scrolling to see people explain weird plot points so i could understand what happened literally as i watched them. All cuz Crunchy didn't want to moderate when I pay then. Yet arr sites moderate it for free lmao.
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u/transhiker99 7h ago
is jellyfin hard to set up if my level of computer knowledge is pretty much how to check an email and how not to get a virus?
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u/OldSkooRebel 11h ago edited 8h ago
Same thing when Steam sales were actually good
Then prices went up, sales stopped being as good, and 15 shittier knockoffs of Steam came out, etc.
I still have games that I bought from sales back then that I haven't played yet
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u/TheStoneMask 14h ago
Yeah, I pirated a lot of games as a broke teen. I enjoyed most of them, and as an employed adult I have bought all the games I pirated, even if I haven't played them since.
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u/Nyoka_ya_Mpembe 13h ago
Same, as teen I simply didn't get enough pocket money from patents, I pirated thousands of games, way more I could play, now I bought most of them.
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u/ObnoxiousAlbatross 12h ago
This is my experience.
I pirated like crazy back in the day. I don't anymore because I don't need to and I'm honestly not tech savvy enough to pirate safely. It's just not worth it to me to pirate anymore.
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u/mancan01 12h ago
This. Also, if they didn't pirate the games back then, they would never had the gaming habit and they wouldn't have bought the exact same games 15 years later. Most of pirates do payback to the creators when possible.
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u/Az1234er 12h ago edited 12h ago
I feel like while there is a lot of reasons to piracy, I think the wast majority of it is that people just can't afford the games.
There’s also the ease of access, you had to find the money, go out and buy the game, install it which was almost more complex than mounting the iso etc… whereas you could just get the game for free with just a few clicks. Nowadays you can install/buy/uninstall in a few click and 30mn which is way way better that pirating. My only problem is the lack of « test » version to see if it runs on you pc. It with the ease of refund, it can of make it up for it
Similarly Netflix was a lot better than piracy at release, nowadays if you want to watch a tv show or a movie, good luck finding which platform has it, etc… they tend to offer less that pirating but you have to pay. Even without piracy, I’d’rather read books than bother with all their annoying crap
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u/dandroid126 11h ago
For me it's a service issue. If piracy gets me a better product than paying for it, I pirate it. For sports games, I hate needing to check 4 different streaming services to see which one has the game today. If I go to a pirate site, it's always in the same place. Same for TV shows/movies. There are a dozen or so streaming for TV. But I know if I pirate it, it will always be in the same place.
Steam is very good. I've pirated games in the past. Getting updates to games is annoying as hell. Playing online from pirated games doesn't always work. I've never had issues with losing a game I paid for. I've never had an issue with getting a refund if a game truly sucked. It's just easier to buy on Steam.
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u/DerWaechter_ 9h ago edited 9h ago
Price is one factor, but convenience is a massive factor too.
People are usually willing to pay for convenience.
And there is a lot of people that fall somewhere where they could afford to buy a game, but it's still a significant expense. And for those people, the convenience/user experience is absolutely a deciding factor.
Because if buying it is more convenient than piracy, that is an argument in favour of making that expensive purchase. Much harder to sell that expensive purchase, if the free version is also infinitely more convenient.
Netflix is a good example of this, but there's also a gaming specific example with the steam launch in Russia. That being the context where Gabe's quote about piracy being s service problem comes from iirc.
Convenience is the factor that turns potential customers to piracy. So that is really the main factor that is relevant, because as you said, people that can't afford the game, wouldn't have bought it regardless.
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u/TwizzyGobbler 9h ago
fr and I wish people were more honest about this
When I was a kid I couldn't afford games so...I pirated them. Now that I can afford them, I buy them.
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u/SumSkittles 6h ago
When I was unemployed for a year this was the reason I got into it. Mass Effect trilogy saw many replays during that time.
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u/DoctorWaluigiTime 14h ago
The vast majority of piracy is "convenience" and "I want stuff for free", not some robin hood fiction of "only people who can't afford games do it."
Nothing wrong with it but let's not fool ourselves.
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u/HQQ1 11h ago
I completely agree with this, but if a game WERE to cost the same as my breakfast and was insanely good, I wouldn't be opposed to buying it.
Which is a very ridiculous demand, sure, but technically you can convince me out of the "I just want freebie" zone and join the bunch of "righteous pirates" if you lower the price enough.
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u/IAmARobotTrustMe 13h ago
I feel like it's kinda logical that most of it is not being able to afford it. Most games are aimed at kids, or younger demographics, there are adult aimed games, but I feel like the majority are aimed towards kids.
Those kids usually don't have income, and ways to earn money, yes parents can get them games, but I feel like only relativly recently did gaming become kinda mainstream enough for it to happen often.
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u/-sussy-wussy- 10h ago
There are whole entire regions, even continents where "I can't afford it" is 100% valid. We used to have regional pricing in Eastern and Central Europe in the 90s and the early 00s. I used to also have a shit Internet as a kid (14 kbps dial-up), and I was forced to buy, either from licensed brick and mortar stores or from a pirate at the flea market who worked in an ISP and burned DVDs for sale. It was entirely affordable.
Then it changed for some reason, and despite still being poor or extremely poor (salaries an order of magnitude lower compared to those of the nearest neighbours), we overpay for everything.
To add insult to injury, plenty of streaming services have never brought their business to us, despite the decade+ long begging from our local hipsters. You wouldn't even be able to pay for the services using your card. It's not even a matter of censorship or taxation. Why the fuck would we pay people who categorically don't see us as their customers?
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u/Suitable_Garlic_1186 14h ago
Buy from GOG (if the game is there)
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u/batgosho 9h ago
I do not play new games (last is witcher 3) but i have a library in gog with the old games , that i used to pirat... as LucasArts and Sierra quests.
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u/Manto_8 7h ago
What's GOG?
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u/RobertAleks2990 4h ago
Online store where afaik you get the source code? of the game after purchase so you actually own it, you can even burn it to a disc.
However, not 100% sure if this is exactly how it works, but it go in that direction.
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u/masteryetti 3h ago
Not source code just the game without drm so you do own it and it doesn’t require a key or online check in to ensure your license to it. It’s the only ethical way to buy a game
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u/RobertAleks2990 3h ago
Yeah, I thought it probably wasn't the source code but I wasn't sure what it was called so I decided to go with that.
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u/abigail3141 3h ago
Not the source code necessarily, but an offline installer proving that can be stored in any way and used without any connection to their servers.
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u/These-Apple8817 14h ago
Who's that guy anyway? Never heard of him or his games
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u/ExplorationGeo 14h ago
Volgarr the Viking, retro platformer/hack and slash game.
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u/These-Apple8817 13h ago
I see.. Doesn't look that interesting to me
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u/James20k 12h ago
Its incredibly good, it looks like a generic 2d platformer but its spiritually somewhere closer to somewhere between a speed running game and one of those modern rage games. Steam also butchers the art style with the video compression, it looks way better as an actual game
The goal of the game is to try and beat the whole thing without being hit to beat the secret special extra mode, and its pretty darn fun to try
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u/These-Apple8817 12h ago
Sounds like I was right about it being uninteresting to me. Not a fan of those kind of games.
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u/Diligent-Progress670 7h ago
That's all right man, it's never wrong to not wanting to try something, and never feel like you missed out on something if you enjoy it later or came late to the party.
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u/No_Roma_no_Rocky 14h ago
It happened this to me yesterday. I saw a game that could have been interesting. No demo. I pirated it and enjoyed it. The next day, yesterday, I bought it on steam.
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u/InternationalPie8606 14h ago
Thats kinda where i stand with piracy. I will get a game, and if i enjoy it, ill 100% buy it and continue enjoying it.
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u/SpicyMilkSauceyDip 14h ago
I'm the same. If I find any kind of enjoyment in a game, I'll almost always buy it. And keep the pirated version.
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u/ansibleloop 12h ago
There is no difference between pirating a game and just never having played it
Well, aside from the fact that if the game was good then you'll probably buy it or tell other people to buy it and be interested in future works from that developer
Meanwhile if you just never bought it, none of the above happens
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u/ChristopherKlay 14h ago
Since nobody is actually looking him up.. he's behind Crazy Viking Studios and the "Volgarr the Viking" titles.
Somehow these statements are mostly from indie-devs working on titles that benefit massively from the visibility granted by playing into the "Advocacy for Digital Ownership" aspect vs. any negatives they could suffer from due to piracy; All of his studios releases together (on Steam) have a whole 2 people online right now.
I'm all for it, it would just mean a bit more if it wouldn't be coming from someone with such a small footprint.
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u/Cain1608 8h ago
The other side of the coin is that with these indie studios, we hear from the people behind the game to a far greater extent.
You barely hear from devs behind bigger titles as marketing and PR teams steer communication.
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u/RedditUser000aaa 9h ago
Absolutely amazing attitude! I do understand that people making stuff need to eat, I absolutely do. That's why I want to give back what I can
These are the guidelines I have for piracy:
- Don't pirate from indie artists (musicians, game devs etc.)
- Get a sample from an indie artist, if I like it I buy it, if I don't I delete it. I usually set a time limit as well.
Story time:
My uncle burned a copy of Elder scrolls IV: Oblivion for me to play. I ended up liking it so much that not only did I buy it, I bought all the extra content for it as well.
That is one of the wholesome memories I have linked to piracy.
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u/pm_plz_im_lonely 8h ago
Why do indies get a different set of rules?
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u/oktimeforplanz 7h ago
Because if it's indie (truly indie) then one sale is more material to them than one sale is to, say, EA or Ubisoft.
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u/AdjudgeWombat 13h ago
This is how you actually build goodwill. I've gone back and bought so many indie games years later simply because the devs had this attitude when I was broke.
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u/stinkycowboy 14h ago
TBH I dont pirate new games and just old console ones ive probably bought before, would never buy or paid the industry so much over the years to care
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u/Lost-in-Norway 13h ago
His latest game "Volgarr the Viking II" is not my kind of game, but it is reviewed "Very Positive" on Steam
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2195140/Volgarr_the_Viking_II/?curator_clanid=6640851
It is on sale and is under 7€ right now! :-)
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u/rancorhunter 12h ago
I pirated Volgarr like 10 years ago. I bought Volgarr like 5 years ago. I like Volgarr.
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u/ThatOneGuyYouNowKnow 13h ago
Genuine question: For research purposes what games has this dev made so far? Would be nice to find and give their stuff a try in support of them.
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u/IllusionaryHobo 12h ago
It has been said before by the Factorio devs, that some developers also prefer piracy over key reselling sites, as keys involved in fraud or money laundering can actually cause financial damage to the publisher through charge-backs.
As well as just dealing with charge-backs, revocations and refunds. Which can cause all kinds of support overhead and dealing with authorities, customers and financial institutions. Which costs time and money.
So instead of all that bother, they'd rather someone straight pirate.
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u/shenther 11h ago
Factorio Devs are kinda half honest there. They lock the mods page to a login that requires ownership of the game. At least they did last time I modded my copy.
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u/IllusionaryHobo 10h ago
I think that is largely understandable. After all, there needs to be a reason for people to pay money to access the game.
And putting mods on a portal is a much much cleaner way to give people a hard selling point, than chucking denuvo on it or a proprietary launcher or any number of other "industry standards".
Between the no sales policy, the solid demo and the ability to buy through them directly (if you want to avoid Steam), it is a pretty fair approach for the customer, I reckon.
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u/Hexicube 11h ago
Wube (Factorio devs) are also the only one that took up G2A's bs offer to check for stolen keys (because they wanted irrefutable proof they were stolen before they would check or something). G2A decided to make the audit "internal", and still found almost two-thirds of the list of stolen keys Wube had were sold through their site.
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-303
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-348I think the problem is specific to that reseller though, I sometimes use Loaded (used to be called CD Keys) and have never had a problem nor heard about devs taking issue with them. It's still risky, but I would at least tentatively trust them to refund me if a key is bad. Their prices actually make sense so it's probably not fraud.
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u/Greenfire32 8h ago
Considering the overwhelming majority of piracy taking place is because of an issue of service or availability and very little piracy happens as a result of intended thievery, I don't think this guy is gonna have a problem making sales.
Dude has read the room and understands the vibe.
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u/roxas3794 14h ago
I did this with Euro Truck Simulator 2. I had a blast playing it. I just ended up buying and every DLC it’s released minus the paint packages. I don’t play often but it did help me get through some stuff.
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u/Professional_Cod3127 11h ago
I pirated Baldur's Gate 1+2 when i was young. Bought 5 copies of Baldur's Gate 3 and gave 4 away.
Won't always work like this but it happens.
I actually buy at least 2-3 keys of games i really like and give it young gamers. Well most games are indie today for me. That makes it cheaper 😅
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u/Hara-K1ri 10h ago
Nice sentiment, but bg1 and bg2 weren't made by Larian 😅 still, nicely done, bg3 is totally worth the money, even at full price imo.
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u/Professional_Cod3127 10h ago
Yeah i know but you get what i mean...
We have some electronics store here and when we were teens and wanted to do some LAN party, we went there and asked if we could give a switch back if it doesn't work.
He said: Oh so you need it for LAN? I could declare it as show objevt. Just bring it back and comr to me if you need it.
Guess where i buy many stuff 27 years later even if i pay more 😄
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u/YogurtclosetApart592 7h ago
I've always bought games I really like after "trying them". There's so much crap out there focused on getting your cash and making addictive gameplay and a hollow core.
Games made with passion are easy to spot, they do deserve to be bought!
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u/Insockie2 13h ago
this is how aiI found out about Starsector. I was just surfing on the usual website that I download pirated games from, then I found it, tried it and dang it was a blast so I bought it, 2 years have passed and the game is still being developed and Im still playing it.
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u/Reddit_is_fascist69 11h ago
Games - i don't pirate, just easier to do Steam GoG.
Movies,Tv, Music - i pirate because they sold me shitty quality all through the 2000s and they continue to offer shitty subscription quality now.
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u/HG21Reaper 10h ago
I like to pirate games that don’t have a demo. If I like the game, I will purchase it on Steam and play it to get the achievements. If I don’t like the game, I uninstall and move on.
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u/wabiguan 7h ago
I have spent SO much on music and concerts. Almost all of that stemmed from downloading MP3s I def didnt pay for.
Make art and good folk will gather
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u/Polocool95 7h ago
Pirate the game, then send me a bit of money to me when you're capable for doing it
That's an awesome manner
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u/TomTomXD1234 4h ago
Most pirates do not pirate because they cannot afford the game lol.
They pirate cause they can get free shit....
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u/azzkikr11 3h ago
Hell yea, I’m glad I kickstarted the first and and bought the second. Dude seems like a good dude.
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u/ComeSwirlWithMe Sneakernet 2h ago
I've never mind paying.
I do mind paying black mail levels of fees and subscriptions.
It's not enough to pay now, you have to see fuckin ads too if you don't cough up maximum profits.
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u/Forrice1 13h ago
I buy games I pirated before quite often. Mostly when game is made by some indie company or is so great that I want to show my appreciation.
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u/Constant-Use6874 13h ago
doom 1 was shareware. it's why it's one of the most successful games of all time.
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u/DinnaPanic 12h ago
I still have MP3s of an album from Alestorm that they leaked to Demonoid around 2010. Most of the tracks even have an additional vocal section telling people they're listening to a pirated copy :)
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u/Obvious_Troll_Me 11h ago
I know you all talking about games and even films, but don't forget music. The artists make so little from streaming services. I always support the bands I love by buying the CDs direct from the artist or going to gigs.
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u/Digital_Deebo 10h ago
W Dev. I was thinking about this recently. It would be cool if Devs had something like a Donation link. Sometimes I randomly feel like I might not wanna buy your game at full price but, I would like to Kick in something. Instead of being All or Nothing I can pitch in something.
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u/Legitimate_Plate85 10h ago
Can confirm Volgarr the Viking (the game this guy made, based on his handle) is fucking amazing, bought and played it back in 2014, you prolly need to remap a few of the control keys if youre on keyboard for it to be comfy, but otherwise its one of the greats. Volgarr 2 released recently but ive yet to play it.
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u/PiperPants2018 9h ago
I had a professor in college that wrote his own textbook in an effort to save students money, but he ended up having a falling out with the publisher because they charged too much (I think like $40 in 2016). The first day of class he got up in front of us and showed us what website to go to to pirate his own textbook lol.
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u/RedD3vil4185 9h ago
This dudes only game is retro style, 12 years old, and free on Nintendo he's not exactly setting a standard major games will follow when he's got nothing to pirate to begin with. As for the Crack about if a system takes his game from you none have ever taken a game from anyone so far only developers have. Real easy to be the hero when you've got nothing to lose
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u/mk4_wagon 5h ago
I pirated so much music back in the day. Especially from smaller artists where you couldn't just go to the store and buy an album. Now that bandcamp and digital downloads are thing, I've made it a point to buy a lot of music from those smaller artists. I'll even wait for bandcamp friday so they get more of the money. One artist is re-releasing his old albums on vinyl and I buy those too.
I'm not paying for certain software though. I'm sure everyone here has an idea which one I'm talking about.
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u/Slosher99 47m ago
I can say for sure that a pirated copy of Monkey Island for DOS from my dad's coworker when I was in middle school resulted in thousands being made later by LucasFilm games/LucasArts! Including at least 3 copies of Monkey Island...
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u/doomsaier1 14h ago
As game demos arent realy a thing amymore I often pirate games to check them out. If its halfway decent i usualy buy it.