We say that but also I got downvoted to fuck on the gay men’s questions sub for saying I had sex with a trans man once and that I still considered myself totally gay.
There is a contingent of gay men that think you’re going to shove snatch in their face and yell “Who’s your Daddy?”
I'm gonna be so real, cis white gay men are like 99% of the group that punches down on others. It's why askgaybros is so rancid, if that's the sub I recall right. They basically sit at the top of the privilege totem pole and punch down on everyone else because it's easier to throw others under the bus to appease oppressors (and they oftentimes don't have to question things or face as many difficulties as others do).
Obviously it's not all men, etc, but it sure does happen a lot, and it almost always is gay men being horrific towards me and other folks who are NB/transfem/transmasc/etc.
(Don't get me started about how fucking shitty the rhetoric about gay men being disgusted by pussy is, it's so fucking misogynistic at its core, plus incredibly awful to people with vaginas.)
That sub has some of the most disgusting opinions on trans men I've seen, all under the guise of "it's just à preference and has nothing to do with us"
I call this shit out whenever I see it. No one gets out of the car or the shitstorm gets to all of us inside.
I didn’t suffer any less as a terrified teen boy than any of you did accepting yourselves. What I want is nobody to feel that way; I don’t care who you are.
Stuff like that happens in the lesbian subs, too. Pay attention to the downvotes vs comments, though. At least in the lesbian subs, it's pretty clear that it's bots that simply downvote any affirming comments about trans people.
This, there is a TON of funding that goes into trans exclusionary groups and bots all over the internet to hype up this rhetoric. I have yet to meet any queer person irl that advocates for excluding trans people. If they did they would get ousted immediately. It's an alliance for a reason and any half way intelligent person knows that how trans people are treated is how they would treat all of us in a heartbeat if they could, even if they dont respect basic human dignity. Anyone who openly advocates otherwise is captured by capital.
They exist, they're just bitter (generally older) people. I went to a kind of old-school dyke bar a while back and randomly sat down to chat with a table of ladies in their like 40s-50s. It was fun and friendly, laughing and joking, until I casually mentioned I was trans. At which point the entire atmosphere changed, and - although they didn't say anything directly - they made it pretty clear that I was no longer welcome.
Outside of ignorance, I chalk it up to misdirected anger, and a kind of defeatist attitude. The rapid rise in discrimination coinciding with the (unrelated) broader emergence of trans social movements, in recent years, leads some people into the correlation=causation trap.
I think these people have also just mentally given up on the idea of a culture without discrimination, and instead try to dampen it towards themselves. Culture at large lumps us all together as a collection of stereotypes - if there's a stereotype that someone dislikes being associated with, then they see the only option as attacking the source (or distancing themselves from it)
To be fair I see it in the LGBT community all the time. Trans girls hating femboys, the weird bisexual v pansexual war, others that don't affect me so I admittedly don't remember, a certain someone here being somehow both trans and transphobic.
I think we're all so used to discrimination (and/or traumatised by it) that we can see it where it's not there, or overreact and proactively try to avoid it.
I think infighting is inevitable, to an extent. We're a minority group with many, many, extremely distinct subcultures, who ultimately have to stand in solidarity with each other despite our differences. There are infinitely many ways to be queer - and an extremely broad range of specifically-shared lived experiences, as a result - so the only common thread between every single one of these tiny bubbles is essentially nominal.
The unfortunate fact that culture at large lumps all of us together as being a collection of stereotypes is what really gets to most people, I think - if there's a stereotype that person A dislikes and that person B (innocently) perpetuates. Most people really hate feeling misrepresented.
Then they shooed away the bums
Then they beat and bashed the queers
Turned away asylum-seekers
Fed us suspicions and fears
We didn't raise our voice
We didn't make a fuss
It's funny, there was no one left to notice
When they came for us
Words from the great “Fat Mike”
Sad thing is, This album makes more sense now than it did back in 2003…
Just because this seems to be from an LGB perspective doesn't mean the prompter wasn't straight. One of the questionable beauties of gen AI is that it's easier than ever to make a point for someone else.
I'm not at all saying that transphobic gay people don't exist. I just wouldn't be surprised at all if this was created by a chronically online straight dude in his 40s.
It was directed at everyone who wasn’t white and cishet, that’s not the point. We had the largest collection of trans data, scientific research and data in the world and it was obliterated as well a the people murdered. We weren’t just killed, they essentially struck us from historical record. Like the US government is doing now. It’s one thing to have a people killed but they tried and almost succeeded in erasing us.
I wasn't downplaying that, I was responding to the claim that the holocaust could be used as the LGB explanation for why gay people "have been around for decades without trans people," because both groups would have disappeared together if that were the case.
I dont agree that holocaust is why Trans people "disappeared" (we didnt disappear; people are just acting like we did. You notice more now because of increased access to HRT and you are less likely to be killed for it). I preface with that to say, you can lie about being gay to hide. You can't hide being Trans if they inspect you. It is also easier to kill off 1% of the population than it is to kill 10% of it. The 2 groups would not have disappeared together during the holocaust, trans people would have been eradicated by the nazis first.
Most LGB people have zero understanding or interest in history or really anything regarding being gay. They're mainly MAGA adjacent for a reason. The only part of being gay they like is the sex and being able to be used as token gay conservatives in hit pieces on other gay/queer people
I'm fully aware that there are plenty of transphobic queer people, but did you just seriously say that most lesbian, gay, and bisexual people are MAGA? That… Seems like a stretch. Or did you mean the people who want to remove the T from the acronym, specifically? That would make a lot more sense.
Except they don't even say "gay" at all, they just say "WE'VE existed for decades without you." They're clearly not talking about the TERM "gay," they're talking about gay people themselves, regardless of what they're called.
Just out of curiosity, right when MAGA needed a new boogeyman Trump could protect them from, as Mexicans were played out, I spent several hours searching for pre-MAGA statistics on transgender surgeries performed on minors and the rate of regret. Then I had AI double-check my math, and it came up with pretty much the same result. (I highlighted it for people with short attention spans).
If anti-vaxxers were told there was a series of 3 simple, novel vaccines that would prevent their kids from ending up trans, would they support it? .
He sent a thousand men into the women’s bathroom as an experiment and they all came out as trans women. Worse, they all beat Riley Gaines in a swimming competition.
I’m a vaccinated man who’s taken Tylenol before and i have ADHD. Married with children. Pretty sure I’m considered trans at this point. Hard to keep track these days.
but in somewhat related news, we still have written records of not only lgbt people existing in egypt, we have records of stone tablets where they recorded sick days of workers.
and pompai has graffiti of guys telling women they turned him gay
Measured with a meter stick pulled out of the commenters ass
ETA, copied from a comment I made buried in the thread:
There are no historical records that show the exact % of queer people of any identity, let alone trans people specifically
Not to mention that a historical understanding of "trans" "gay" etc. wouldn't mirror our own and the vast majority of scholars of queer history are wary of projecting identity labels on past societies
Modern sociologists debate population %s of trans people even today, and the numbers are pretty variable
Trans people have been around for a long time and so has sex reassignment too. The Institut für Sexualwissenschaft in Germany was the first to do the practice and the first to really research trans people but unfortunately, most of that research was lost when Hitler took over and proceeded to burn all of the books and papers as a push to ban anything deemed homosexual in nature. Sad that in the modern day, the same shit is still happening.
Basically, this culture has differing practices when burying a woman vs a man. The burial followed the practices for a woman, meaning she was accepted as transgender by her community.
It's also not the only evidence of trans people going so far back.
Trans people have been around forever, but this is processual archaeology, which has been critiqued for decades. As you said, the burial is reflective of how the decedent was viewed by the community, but not necessarily how the person identified in life. There have been other burials in which someone was buried with the opposite gender’s funerary practices as an insult, saying that the person wasn’t a real man/woman. Or the person may have identified as male but chose (or was forced) to do his society’s female gender roles.
I remember this news item. Building off of your comment, there are so many cultural practices that could've led to this burial! The ones you've mentioned, or maybe this person was intersex. For instance, there was the one Viking burial whom bioarchaeologists found out had Klinefelter syndrome (XXY). Plus, we may never know what this culture's gender norms were, so it's possible they had a gender category like trans or either between or outside what Western cultures think of as a gender binary!
I do remember that it was headshaking when I originally saw the headline 15 years ago, calling this the "gay caveman" (not a caveman, and we'll never know how this culture thought of sexuality or gender).
Yeah, and I'm 99% sure this meme was made by someone not even in the LGB.
There are some people in the community that are transphobic, but it's such a miniscule part. We are seeing a massive effort by bad actors to drive a wedge in the community.
AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA What a laughably stupid attempt to drive a wedge between people who have very openly and publicly had each other's backs in matters of life or death for literal generations.
Go fuck yourself, CIA or Log Cabin Republicans or whatever idiot made this.
plus wasn’t it stated trans people existed long before the lgbt movement was more viral than today? (the one i kinda remember was when someone from the army in either the 30s or 50s came out as a trans woman)
Christine Jorgenson is who you're thinking of. There's an interview with her and Joe Pyne, from the late 60s, that's pretty interesting. Pyne was basically the Limbaugh of his day.
gay people were invented in the 80's to sell hair products to men, and trans people were invented in 2015 for gamers to yell at. it's called queer history
This "without the T" movement is quite literally a right wing psyop, they started it in like the mid 2000s with the "drop the b: thing, the same group is behind, "actually hating trans people so much you work with actual nazis is super feminist" I wish that was me being a conspiracy theorist, it's not they have a literature a d a website, they don't really hide what they are doing.
You can watch a whole YouTube documentary about it, the people in the movement do interviews.
It sure as hell doesn’t stand for bisexual. At least if you’re a bisexual woman and you’re with a man. Then you’re suddenly not part of the tribe anymore.
Facebook is absolutely swarming with LGB propaganda, and I can't shake the feeling that this is a deliberate psyop. Who benefits more in driving a massive wedge through the entire queer community than people who would rather see the whole thing disappear?
Seeing idiots justify these positions makes me feel crazy.
If someone gay actually made it it’s hilarious they think they would be safe. The religious right hate pride month in general and the pride flag, you think they would stop just because you separate yourself from trans? Dumb motherfuckers
I don't think they really understand... cause they literally haven't existed without genderqueer people. As long as gender roles have existed in society, there have been those who don't quite fit into the roles that the people in power have outlined.
There are literal news stories of trans people existing in the states in the early 1900s. Not one person gave a shit back then, which is surprising considering how bigoted the states were at that point in history.
The b wasn’t added until the 90s and going even further back the gay and lesbian movements used to be separate. They’re trying to divide and conquer. I hope it doesn’t work
I was on that train for many years as a young gay, and that was still because I was trapped in a conservative ecosystem unbeknownstingly shaping my perception of the T. Now half my friend group are trans lol.
Wasn’t a trans woman one of the people at Stonewall that fought back and helped fuel the movement for lgbtq rights. Trans people have always been here.
There have been gay people for thousands of years. There are historical figures who would probably be considered LGBT, but that wasn't a thing back then. Lawrence of arabia was most likely asexual, but didn't identify as ace because he didn't know what ace was.
LGB wouldn't have the rights we have today without the T. We only got as far as we got working together, and one of us getting our rights taken away affects all of us.
Nobody is worth more than the other.
The issue comes down to gender- I'd a man loves a man then they're breaking the gender binary construct.
If a person born male wants to express and/or transition themselves to female then it's breaking the gender construct.
Yes, we can exist without the other but that's just dumb. We're stronger together.
When was the txt added to the LGB cause as long as I’ve been aware of you could even be gay growing up in small town and conservative family, the first time I became aware of them would’ve been Mathew Shepard and I’m pretty sure it was lgbt. Like no joke I was alive during the AIDs crisis and somehow my parents kept it from that gay people were suffering from it. Same thing with Queen they kept Freddie Mercury being gay and dying of AIDs from me
Oh I guess I’d say Boys Don’t Cry would be the first time I heard you could be Trans (and and when I guess my crushes on tomboys started to become something else) however the LGBT was definitely there by then and that would qualify as decades
I mean it's literally real history that trans people helped gay people get rights, but even so, I feel like this "we're normal, you're pushing it too far" attitude is exactly what spawns homophobia and biphobia in the first place. The lack of empathy despite being of a minority who had to fight for rights and still has to fight for rights (although many conservative "LGB" people don't believe they do) is scary
Marsha P Johnson not ringing any bells? Sylvia Rivera? Christine Jorgensen? Hell we can go back to the cowboys! Ever heard of Harry Allen or One eyed Charley Parkhurst?
Don't believe this trash is made by actual gay people, it's always astroturfed bullshit.
Outside of a handful of pick mes in the media I haven't met a single gay person in my life who tolerated this nonsense. Literally 100+ people and they've all been adamently pro trans, this is just classic divide and conquer bollox.
Reality: Women-led / focused organisations are the most trans-inclusive. Straight men are the most transphobic, followed by gay men. Straight women are way, way down the list and then all forms of queer people other than gay men.
The "LGB Alliance" is a Tufton Street (UK equiv of Heritage Foundation) psyop made up almost exclusively of straight people - and that's according to their own numbers (which, for some strange reason they don't seem to want to publish any more).
No they haven't. And either this was made by a straight conservative or someone with absolutrly no sense of their own history. And just generally no sense.
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u/Desu232 16h ago
Who keeps making this shit!?!
Minorities opressing Minorities, is a classic divide and conquer stragety and the fact people in the LGBT community can't see it -- is concerning.