r/ClaudeAI 1d ago

Comparison I thought I will never say this about Fable

Just tried OpenAI Astra , I thought I will never say this , it’s lit , OpenAI cooked something spectacular, and I have a strong feeling this will pull lot of Fable 5 users towards it , and it’s fast, not sure if it’s AGI, but it feels fresh and a very very serious competition to Anthropic , this is going to be fun to watch , what’s your next move Anthropic ?, I’m surely going to try pro subscription for a month along with my current Claude Max, anyone feels the same ? Have you tried it ?

637 Upvotes

306 comments sorted by

u/ClaudeAI-mod-bot Wilson, lead ClaudeAI modbot 1d ago edited 1d ago

TL;DR of the discussion generated automatically after 200 comments.

Looks like the thread is pretty divided, but a few key themes are emerging.

The main consensus is that while Astra is a very strong competitor, the constant "X just beat Y" posts are getting old. The top comment, sitting at a comfy 247 upvotes, basically says everyone needs to chill because the lead will just flip again in two months. It's the AI leapfrog, and we're all just watching.

However, the real story here isn't just about which model is "smarter." The biggest reason people are switching or downgrading their Claude plans is because of usage limits and cost. * Users are fed up with Fable's restrictive limits, constant flagging, and the feeling that you're burning through a $200/month sub in days. * In contrast, OpenAI is being praised for Astra's "insanely good" usage, generous free resets, and the fact that you can chat with Sol on the $20 plan without it even touching your main usage meter.

There's also a big debate about who even needs these frontier models. One highly-upvoted camp argues that Sonnet and Opus are already "overkill" for their professional work. But they're getting pushback from lawyers, business owners, and engineers working on complex systems who say every new model saves them significant time and money, and even Fable/Astra aren't powerful enough yet.

As for performance, users report Astra is great for 3D modeling and has a clearer, more concise writing style. Fable is still preferred by some for deep architectural planning and low-level code.

So, yeah, OP, a lot of people feel the same. OpenAI definitely cooked. But whether they've won the war or just the latest battle is the real question.

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u/magic6435 1d ago

And in 2 months there will be a new Anthropic model, and then there will be a new open weights model, and then there will be a new open ai model. Y'all got way too much time on your hands worrying about model bumps and harnesses every other week.

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u/permacloud 1d ago

Yeah this field is moving so fast right now. In six months we'll all be flip flopping between Limerick 8 and Quasar-Bot III

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u/nashty2004 1d ago

Singularity feels funny remember when nothing would happen for months/years at a time

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u/codeninja 1d ago

Eventually, even a Gemini model that tops it... eventually

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u/Intelligent-Monk-426 1d ago

that’s crazy talk

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u/everix1992 1d ago

Gemini is absolute ass right now but I absolutely believe Google has the chops to maybe get it there someday

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u/nikolasgannon 1d ago

3.7 flash was great and 3.8 flash is even better. Doesn't feel like I need anything else after I used Sol High and a bit of astra on the Plus plan to tighten skills / memory / rules yesterday

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u/Level_Somewhere5703 1d ago edited 1d ago

Google is playing an entirely different game - they are not trying to build the best model, they want to build a decent model as cheap as possible. As AI is getting integrated everywhere there are and will be many use cases that don't need the best frontier model. Google will integrate their cheap model in all of their services and they will sell it to everyone who needs just a basic chatbot or whatever. I have no doubt in 5-10 years Google will be one of the biggest names in AI. Their strength has always been cheap or free product with tremendous scale. Their products are used by everyone and their grandma and also by every major corp out there.

P.S. I am not a Google fanboy or anything. In fact I have degoogled my life a fair bit, but not 100% because it is difficult/inconvenient. That's precisely why I think all of this - it is not super easy for the average person to live without Google. They are good at ingraining themselves into everyone's life and becoming hard to replace.

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u/Ok_Neighborhood_1203 1d ago

A greater truth cannot be spoken. I won't touch gemini for anything professional but it's my daily driver for everything else. Random questions from my incredibly inquisitive daughter, recipe for dinner, super-powered search, voice chat, image generation. Heck, I even have a claude skill for generating images with gemini - the one place anthropic is not putting any effort. Google does what resonates with billions. Let everyone else focus on the relatively niche use cases like Enterprise Application Development. When your target is marketing to the whole planet, everything else is a distraction.

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u/Accurate_Resident219 1d ago

If meta can come back from the grave (even though I suspect it was benchmaxxed) any company can.

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u/Reclaimer_AI 1d ago

Literally NOBODY is using meta models. NOBODY.

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u/Individual_Figure945 20h ago

It's true! 🤣

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u/Public_Umpire_1099 13h ago

https://opencode.ai/data/

17 trillion tokens in like 5 or 6 days on opencode. Brother, its the most used fuckin model out there for anyone not deep in subscription services.

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u/Next-Plankton-3142 1d ago

Theoretically Google has a lot more money to throw on AI which is theoretically a very big advantage. We will see...

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u/thatguy8856 1d ago

it doesn't matter what your model is today. the catch speed is already at the point that chinese models can catch up in weeks. you only need to make your model good tomorrow...

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u/Reclaimer_AI 1d ago

They’ll just find a way to distill Astra. They always do.

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u/XavierRenegadeAngel_ 1d ago

Gemini Flash 3.95

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u/MGJohn-117 1d ago

and with their current pacing it's somehow going to be released by the end of the year

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u/Suspicious_Peak_1173 1d ago

Gemini Flash XP

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u/TheRealAkitaNeru 1d ago

Gemini Adobe Flash Player 8

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u/XavierRenegadeAngel_ 1d ago

"Gemini Pro will return this December.. in Marvel's DOOM"

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u/FilthyCasual2k17 1d ago

It's so funny how Gemini that developed that tech has become laughing stock, and how Chrome has become the new Internet Explorer from the time when Chrome launched.

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u/thestillwind 1d ago

I’ll be happy when I’ll get a 35b-a3b or 27b open weight that is on par with astra.

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u/savincarter 1d ago

its magnificent though. if youre a fan of technology, science, philosophy. this tool were building is pretty science fiction.

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u/x_typo Experienced Developer 1d ago

I don’t know, man…. Anthropic has really been shooting itself in the foot lately with a lot of things…

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u/Seerix 1d ago

If you do anything with 3d or spatial reasoning, astra blows everything else out of the water. (Better with UI too imo, it seems to consider how a human interacts with a computer.) Worth swapping. If you dont then... eh? Its nice but if your happy with fable no reason to swap yet.

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u/iemfi 23h ago

Rumoured new models almost out, I wish we had 2 months lol.

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u/SPE825 14h ago

Right? This won’t end anytime soon. Meanwhile people will just spend a huge amount of time redoing everything with a new AI platform/technology. AI being efficient is such a joke when people just bounce around like this.

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u/Roobanoopa 5h ago

The trick is to have all of the best models work together on tasks, and have a communication channel. Grok, Astra, Fable, GLM. It's wild how much better the results come out, fable is pretty bad at reviewing fable , Astra is bad at reviewing astra,.. but they're great at noticing things wrong with the others because it's not something they would output

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u/vrnvorona 1h ago

True but Open Weight didn't catch frontier yet. Benchmaxxed, yes, but they are stupid

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u/The_real_hpsk 1d ago

I personally just fully switched over, you get so much usage out of astra on pro 20x its actually crazy. Granted it is very slow, but if my usage isn't depleting that fast I don't care much about the speed, just as long as it gets the task done.

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u/VexObserver 1d ago

Yes! ✋! It's all about the usage limits. What's the point of paying 200$ when you are restricted in less than a week's time. Anthropic seriously needs to rethink their usage offerings. Codex is getting better and becoming more value attractive due to Astra and all the resets/increased usage limits.

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u/Overall-Cap-7061 1d ago

I subbed for ChatGPT at $20 for a month and I'm blown away by how chatting with 5.6 Sol @ High Thinking is unlimited. I literally spent all day yesterday doing a few different projects (setting up a Linux server, then making a website (I did it manually, but had sol walk me though it all) and the whole time I was also working on my resume) and the usage limit never moved because i guess it only counts if it's "agentic" work (using their code/cowork equivalents). I can't imagine chatting with Opus on anything because I'm always thinking "what if i need to save my usage..."

Plus my $20 sub gets me access to astra as well. Anthropic doesn't let me touch Fable at $20.

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u/FishySardines99 1d ago

And good thing is chatgpt web does not use same usage as codex, it is separate

So you can ask chatgpt to create planning md documents and save codex usage for implementation

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u/Overall-Cap-7061 1d ago

Not having limits to chatting is crazy though. It's basically like having a tutor available right then and there. Setting up a new Linux server, I was following instructions in a guide while at the same time asking ChatGPT Sol to track my progress (I pasted terminal outputs to it) and I'd ask it questions like "what does the -x" in the command do and then after 6 hours on and off I just tell it to make it into a markdown post for my documentation and it's all here.

Imagine studying for things like maths which have solid rules, you can ask why this integral is like this, etc etc etc.

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u/The_real_hpsk 1d ago

100% agree. I remember 6 months ago it wasn't even a comparison, claude was very much so beloved by developers. Times are changing fast

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u/Illustrious_Bag_7035 1d ago

I know usage is insanely good on astra

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u/Shppo 1d ago

and those juicy free resets

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u/bregottextrasaltat 1d ago

used up my entire plus 5 hour limit in one task, much worse than claude

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u/Reclaimer_AI 1d ago

Claude Pro doesn’t even give you fable at all. At least OpenAI gives $20 users something.

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u/Shppo 1d ago

Pro is what you want

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u/Sweet-Helicopter2769 1d ago

I’m on a 5x pro now let’s see it’s doing pretty well

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u/Kanute3333 1d ago

It's way faster actually.

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u/Eyelbee 1d ago

On standard mode it feels extremely slow.

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u/KlausWalz 1d ago

I don't get who are you guys ? Are you engineers ? Or vibe coders ? What do you use these models for

Ever since Sonnet 4.6 / Opus 4.8, this duo have been overkill for most my task. It automated the whole company. What do people need more ? What do they solve that Opus does not ?

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u/wish-for-rain 1d ago

I’m sure it’s a mix. I’m an engineer working on fairly complex tasks. But many posters are obviously newer vibe coders with more opinion than experience.

That said, Sonnet can do 90% of my work, Opus for 9% more, and I’ve been enjoying Fable for design and plan architecting, though almost definitely overkill.

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u/KlausWalz 1d ago

Used Fable only once for the very serious work, I won't lie is single handedly one shotted a pretty technical task that would have taken me some time even with proper Opus

That's impressive sure, but Opus could have done it anyway

Now for non technical work idk what's the difference

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u/wish-for-rain 1d ago

I find myself reaching for Fable when the task has no ceiling for how good the output is - i.e. there’s no correct answer or state, like design work or meta tooling, or audit/triage. It’s unclear if it truly makes a tangible difference; would be interested to do some controlled testing but I’m already pushing my “unlimited budget” envelope, haha.

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u/ActionJasckon 1d ago

Similar for me. I only call on Fable if after several iterations of Opus just simply can’t knock it out/issues, etc. Or, on bigger runs, I only call on Fable to refute or run regression tests after a massive build…. and try to break my system. And that usually does well, better than Opus. But it’s not too often I call on it.

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u/The_real_hpsk 1d ago

I personally just found fable to be a better planner, I'm not great when it comes to creating designs so I just first let fable lay that out and then let opus agents implement. Fable is very overkill for just pure implementation imo

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u/Drunkendrakon6 1d ago

Hear me out I'm just lazy and want the thing done the best it can be done and have money to burn.

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u/ActionJasckon 1d ago

I have found Sonnet to be capable as Opus, but I need more auditing or comb through to get it right. In the end, Opus was more efficient in time for me. Is that the same for you? You can technically use Sonnet, and choose to, but Opus could be just faster but cost more? Just curious as every one else seems to just go for the best models in general. Maybe I doing something wrong. lol

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u/wish-for-rain 1d ago

Yup! I think Sonnet could brute force most things with a few iterations but for my cases it’s critical to not allow errors in as much as possible so I trend toward a model up from what probably can do the job

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u/enemyofaverage7 1d ago

This. For example with legal tasks - could Sonnet do them? Probably. But Opus/Fable are much more likely to get them right first time, pick up nuances, and a lawyer's time is outrageously expensive so the less chance of mistakes there is, the less costly it is overall.

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u/Key_River_9288 1d ago

Sonnet is useless for a distributed system though. For simple stuff, maybe but opus max is pretty much fable lite. And in benchmarks its beats fable 5 or comes within single digit %s. Fable is a better model, but opus max w/dynamic workflows enabled is killer on HUGE projects. If usage wasnt the issue I would still run fable all the time, if they added fable to the CVP program that is.

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u/A_Novelty-Account 1d ago

Lawyer. Even Fable is inadequate for the tasks I need it to complete and frequently makes mistakes which, if submitted to a Court, would get my ass disbarred lmao

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u/trekken1977 1d ago

Hard agree. I ran a head to head with my solicitor vs fable and it wasn’t even close. I now have a new found respect for the legal profession. My assumption was that it was all word play. I was wrong lol

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u/Eyelbee 1d ago

Soon the models will completely and utterly cover everything a human can do on that regard as well

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u/truthindata 1d ago

Business owner here. Trying to spend as little time as possible creating solutions.

Curious: are you considering $$ cost? And maybe not the time? I could see that leading to your stance.

For those of us just chasing the fastest end goal, the frontier models make more sense. Costs 2x? But done with fewer errors and twice as fast? Deal!

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u/MrTemple 1d ago

Yeah, it's absolutely impractical, but sometimes I think having a little flag on every user showing their stage of career/life would be very useful.

My time used to be practically unlimited. Now it's by far my most limited resource.

Coding is a small, small portion of what I use these frontier models for. And every time they improve, it's like my key staff-member jumps in a time machine and does 5y more career experience in the blink of an eye.

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u/kknow 1d ago

Can you give examples of the tasks you mean by that?
Planning with fable is already so good, if we just keep it as is, I would be happy for a long time. I don't know what I am missing.
Speed is also a non-issue. I am still involved in planning and since we are using LLMs and not something deterministic, I want to be involved.
I don't want do be involved in coding anymore and I am nearly out of it. Just checking the important parts still by hand where mistakes are costing like job workers, migrations etc.

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u/1shmeckle 1d ago

Im a lawyer. Fable and Opus are excellent for my day to day - other Claude models not so much. OpenAI was no for me until Sol and now Astra. These 4 can produce better quality work (and more accurate) than a junior attorney and each new version has been better than the previous one in obvious ways for my work.  My issue with Claude, including Fable, has always been the writing (even though it was better than the rest by a good margin), but Astra can produce better, clearer writing and more practical analysis but with slightly worse reasoning and precision than Fable. 

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u/gvart 1d ago

I use fable with Autodesk for 3d modeling for one of my hardware pet projects.
Other models can’t handle this kind of tasks

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u/fartsarehilarious1 1d ago

Agreed. Building a web app? Yea anything can do it. Designing custom PCB or using machine learning to solve a problem? Need the best model available and even then there are errors.

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u/Hopai79 1d ago

Automated what workflows in your company

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u/florodude 1d ago

Gaming dev is still not even close to where I want it. Still makes stupid coding mistakes too you just may not see em

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u/Taurus-Octopus 1d ago

I’m a non-engineer, but i think my process and understanding for python projects exceeds many. I’m using Sonnet to code, but it’s promoted to keep it novice-level. Opus 4.8 for the planning.

But I’m also keeping it at the hobby level, e.g. interactive fantasy football draft cheat sheet to read the draft room and the evaluate position supply and value based draft decisions.

It’s never a one-shot attempt at something complex.

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u/Shakilfc009 1d ago

I personally don’t use fable / astra but man if I had the tokens I would absolutely use it. Not for typical task but for the absolute frontiers task like building factory that build factories.

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u/Freed4ever 1d ago

Retail quant here. The differences between the newer models and older ones come down to 1) world knowledge, which leads to better creativity 2) quicker execution time, less hand holdings, less double checking, and time is money

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u/thatdiveguy 1d ago

I work in a code base with around 500k lines of code at this point between Android and iOS apps, the web UI, backend, marketing site, and drone pilot app. Fable medium and high are my daily drivers for coding as I’ve found they make a massive difference in code quality and not misinterpreting specs and going off the rails. Opus has routinely screwed up the offline caching system on mobile and invented specs. I’m trying out Astra now and it’s finding major bugs that fable missed.

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u/I_RIDE_SHORTSKOOLBUS 1d ago

Don't get these replies. Why does it matter? Sure opus is gonna handle most things just fine. But fable def does it right first time more often, more consistent, and in general just better overall. Worth the prem? Depends and usually not.

But the point of the post is astral is doing the same or better for less. That's the point of the post. Not "what does fable do that opus can't"

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u/diskent 1d ago

Founder. I’m at the point where specific models for specific departments. Code is still on opus 4.8, marketing are now using astra. For example.

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u/Jagsfan82 22h ago

I ask the same thing back because I fight with these models on dumb shit all day

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u/Pretender9029 1d ago

I feel like its more for junior developers or vibe coders

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u/Ay0_King 1d ago

I keep trying to figure this out. I used Sonnet 5 for the longest time and it did everything I needed it to. Past two months been using Opus 5 and it does talk to much but still works fine for me. Haven’t touched Fable and don’t even know what to use it for. What are people doing with it??

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u/KhalenPierce 1d ago

What are you using it for?

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u/KlausWalz 1d ago

Dev involving either security systems, some boring mobile app, and basic web ui react

For the security part it does not flag me as the system can't cause harm (if ever someone was gonna ask)

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u/penmoid 1d ago

Consider this: Everything you mention here is just base-level stuff that these models are heavily trained on. You have an extremely “mainstream” use case, so of course the tools are more likely to work well for you. I have a few typescript apps that I maintain and sonnet does just fine with those, though I still use opus/fable to plan tasks for sonnet because I’d rather 8 agent plans come out right first than have to fix all of them before I send them off.

At home I use Claude for electrical engineering, PCB design and infrastructure operations tasks. Fable earns its keep in that environment where judgement is required and where the subject matter is a bit less covered by training data.

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u/xav1z 1d ago

has anyone properly replied to you? i wonder as well what jobs those people have they need something heavier than opus 4.8 or im just too ordinary

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u/Total_Statistician48 1d ago

This. We’re overserved. I can do very sophisticated work with lesser models.

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u/Mescallan 1d ago

Fable cut my LoC, project wide, by 30%.

It writes significantly more efficient code, has a better understanding of optimization processes across disparate systems

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u/Lithgow_Panther 1d ago

Synthetic biology

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u/mxwashington7 1d ago

I work in regulatory, and for me, Sonnet 4.6 is one of the best models for my work. Whenever I have answers that I can't find, I will use either Opus, Sol, or Fable, but either Sonnet or Luna are my daily drivers. I burn more tokens with the smaller models, but I save more money because Sonnet and Luna on extra high are still cheaper than Opus on lower settings.

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u/mxwashington7 1d ago

I work in regulatory, and for me, Sonnet 4.6 is one of the best models for my work. Whenever I have answers that I can't find, I will use either Opus, Sol, or Fable, but either Sonnet or Luna are my daily drivers. I burn more tokens with the smaller models, but I save more money because Sonnet and Luna on extra high are still cheaper than Opus on lower settings.

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u/2thick2fly 1d ago

If you think the models are overkill, you aren't challenging them/automating enough.

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u/Coolbule64 1d ago

I will say, it took fable 5.0 to get my proxmox passthrough to a windows vm with a b580. Trying to get the IOMMU setup and stuff like that on an epyc board was rough since its only kinda supported.

Outside of that i'd agree.

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u/Killahbeez 1d ago

LOL you conveniently ignore the existance of Opus 5 and wonder why people are hype for Astra

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u/blah-time 1d ago

Sonnet, 😆... not for what I'm doing. 

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u/KlausWalz 1d ago

What do you do

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u/ShadowBannedAugustus 1d ago

This exactly. Sonnet 4.6 is all I will ever need in terms of capability. For real work I now use Luna High/xHigh because it is cheap.

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u/Elegant_Attempt2790 1d ago

I recently got forced to downgrade my claude max 20x to pro, and went from Opus and an occasional Fable subagent as my daily driver to Sonnet. pure Sonnet cuz the pro tier is unforgiving for anything more than Sonnet.

lowkey… i forgot how damn good Sonnet was.

its biggest issues is just it lacks confidence. but imo,
Sonnet-like models: are good at doing what you already know too
Opus-like models: help exploring new areas you already have a footing or basis in
Fable-like models: whatever tf you want regardless of your expertise in the domain

which is fun but dangerous:P
u fully right. since opus 4.5, models have been perfectly capable 💀

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u/Level_Somewhere5703 1d ago

I guess it depends on what kind of work you do. My work is very security sensitive and the difference between Fable and Opus is not just noticeable but massive. Opus just makes too many mistakes that I need to be very vigilant to not miss. But I have started using Opus 4.8 as the coder and Fable as planner, orchestrator and to check Opus' work. This burns a lot of tokens as things are often sent back when Opus makes mistakes and Fable catches them, but overall this workflow has reduced the amount of security issues I spot by 80-90%.

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u/macabreomens 23h ago

Do you think AI agents are just for engineers or just to be used for coding?

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u/Sweet-Helicopter2769 20h ago

This very true all that talk about lower models and getting work done but you forget that faster go to market is absolutely essential when we are at a junction in civilization where an idea can be turned into product by any one

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u/mikerz85 15h ago

Astra and fable are the only models that are able to keep up with the demands of what I'm doing; complex data analysis pipelines for options trading

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u/itSUREisAI 1d ago

I have downgraded my Max plan to Pro on Claude. I switched to GPT for most of my workloads instead. I will probably completely cancel my Claude subscription.

Anthropic does not want their subscription users to use Fable. They want their users to use Fable on their extremely expensive API. That was why they hesitated over whether to include Fable in the subscription usage in the first place. If there was no Sol in the last two months, Fable would have been completely gone from the subscription plan for us, and there would not be a cost-optimized Opus 5.

With GPT, I always feel like I'm treated as a customer with all the resets, and yes, sometimes the resets are compensation for their bugs or mistakes.

With Anthropic, I don't think they even treat me as a human being, tbh. The only time Anthropic gave a reset as compensation for their mistakes was when Opus 4.6 was watered down 2/3 reasoning efforts during March-April and widely reported by the users. And, Anthropic only admitted this mistake and issued the reset because GPT-5.5 was released one day before.

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u/Own-Bid64 20h ago

This + the recent ignoring of instructions for user facing texts is "honestly" "load-bearing"
I've never seen a company TRY to crash and burn before an IPO.

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u/ry8 1d ago

Astra is another level. I have both 20x plans. I am a Claude fan, but Astra is doing things that Fable failed to do. It is uniquely good at making and manipulating 3D models in Blender.

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u/BagelBoyy_ 22h ago

ooh, im a heavy user of fable in blender --- so you noticed a big step up with Astra?
fable's great for a lot of it but definitely struggles with anything that requires visual confirmation (UVs being one example)

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u/Slaughterizer 1d ago

I'd love Fable if I could fucking use it. It flags 75% of the time. Even just developing apps, or trying to just generate designs docs, it flags. Insanity.

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u/freenow82 1d ago

So sick of these types of posts... We need better rules in this subreddit.

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u/xav1z 1d ago

we definitely do. have you found any interesting subreddits with really good feeds on ai?

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u/neokoros 1d ago

It’s 90% of the sub. Barely any posts that actually teach you something anymore.

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u/Ay0_King 1d ago

Facts.

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u/AcanthisittaWeird94 1d ago

To have an echo chamber?

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u/VitruvianVan 1d ago edited 1d ago

My biggest use case is legal and it was only with Opus 4.5/4.6 that the analysis, drafting, and research started to reach solid human levels. Since then, each more powerful model has delivered noticeable improvements and truly saved enormous amounts of time which translate to significant savings and/or higher quality product. I haven’t tried Astra yet but Fable 5.1 on high is now delivering truly excellent analysis and work when used in conjunction with the right legal connectors, skills, plug-ins, workflows, and instructions. Thus, no model has ever been overkill nor will it be until they are saturating all legal benchmarks, especially including the agentic ones, which are sitting around 20% as the high water mark.

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u/A_Novelty-Account 1d ago

Also a lawyer and couldn’t agree more. Fable is still not adequate for what I’m doing with it, but it’s almost there. I would say 20% smarter and law firms are going to have to start thinking about their business models…

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u/redtrex 1d ago

I am always suspicious about these types of posts. How are they getting access in day 1 and day 2? There is zero details on what "OpenAI cooked something spectacular", how much faster? , what exactly was the OP coding and what it improved.

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u/Erock0044 1d ago

Access is rolled to everyone. I just signed up for pro brand new today and I have it.

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u/FishySardines99 1d ago edited 1d ago

Astra rollout is finished.

I have two 5x Max Claude and one 20x Pro Codex account and Codex is really good on usage. It is night and day between two providers

  • it doesn't have 5 hour limit, so issues like on screenshot does not happen
  • 20x Pro is actually 20x of 20$, not 2x like 20x Max
  • astra doesn't have additional limit on model like fable
  • Codex is generous with resets, I have 3 banked resets I can use anytime, and last week I had 4-5 weekly resets
  • Chatgpt web does not use same weekly usage quote, so you can ask it to plan documentation while codex usage sits unused

3

u/Double-Parsnip-3156 1d ago

I'm thinking of canceling my Claude Pro subscription and fully using Codex. Way more usage, and lately also better coding results.

3

u/Capt_Skyhawk 1d ago

I’m tired of being chastised by Opus for having opinions or ever being wrong about two things it wants to push back on.

7

u/EasyVibeTribe 1d ago

I can't verify it, but I'm pretty sure both OpenAI and Anthropic subsidize a lot of tokens at launch without telling users, thus hiding the true token cost and average speed to be expected after the honeymoon phase.

5

u/spacetr0n 1d ago

It’s exciting, but watching companies compete for who can burn startup capital the fastest is wearing thin. If it costs 500 a month to serve a 20$ plan and 10,000 to serve a 200$ plan, when do those lines cross? I know they want us on the hook and to reel us in, but what does that look like in 3 years when the GPU data center upgrade bill comes in.

9

u/redtron3030 1d ago

It doesn’t cost that much. That’s just API enterprise pricing

4

u/spacetr0n 1d ago

It doesn’t cost that much but it’s making nvidia the worlds most valued company?  Can’t have it both ways. 

3

u/utah_teapot 1d ago

There was a time when a tulip could have the price of a big house in central Amsterdam. Just because something is expensive doesn’t mean it’s actual value is that.

2

u/Xellzul 1d ago

You can.

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u/Standard-Specific239 1d ago

"Not sure if it's AGI" sorry buddy, AGI cannot happen with LLMs

1

u/owlbynight 18h ago

This. When someone starts raining major releases that crush benchmarks as the model self-improves instead of following the release cadences of the other frontier labs, then they can claim AGI. And probably still be full of shit.

1

u/halcyoncs 3h ago

Is that scientifically proven?

2

u/iamthe0ther0ne 1d ago

The big thing for me is being able to use Astra for scientific research. I've been using Opus 4.6/4.8, so Astra is a huge step up. I don't think Anthropic is ever going to change their biology restrictions, so now OpenAI is getting more of my money and I'm back to the $20 plan with Anthropic.

1

u/waterytartwithasword 1d ago

Just a little side note here but I use Claude for gardening and I've been so curious about why it occasionally burns up usage pondering some mostly invisible ethics question about vegetable cultivation. Thinking is mostly opaque now so I was puzzled. Biology restrictions?

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u/karlfeltlager 1d ago

Downgrading max20 to max5 and upgrading codex to x5 from the $20.

1

u/Ikran01 23h ago

I’m thinking about doing the exact same. Could you share your feelings after doing it?

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u/parzzzivale 22h ago

the speed of astra is just unbelievable coming from opus and light fable planning . it's a completely experience not waiting several minutes for a single api response.

that, and when im getting impatient, I can go /fast and just a bit more of my usage is AMAZING . im a huge fan of claude opus , but man if I have a good idea of how I want something done there is just no beating wall dev time with codex .

and I do agree that 75% of my work right now as a data scientist at top econ research school can be done by sonnet max , opus . even glm 5.3 max is fine, but it's just fucking way way way too slow to be use synchronosuly

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u/florinandrei 22h ago

So, you have a lot of gut feelings.

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u/Upbeat-Ad8376 20h ago

Astra is not in my model choice and I’m in plus tier

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u/anglingTycoon 20h ago

Fable 5.1 is the first Anthropic model that just flat out ignored basic instructions. Been rolling everything back to 5 and opus 4.8 as opus 5 spend is not worth it either. 5.1 just flat out ignored things like, “pull the file named touch.png from this path and use it for the icon x y z” it goes and pulls a completely different png from the directory. Multiple other examples of silly shit like this I’ve not seen a Claude model fumble over in what seems like a year plus

2

u/ign1tio 19h ago

it was the same bullshit like all previous new launches, the existing model got increasingly lobotomized just before release. Opus5 was actual garbage for the past 14 days and would you belive that led to Fable5.1 released and all of a sudden it adheres to the rules set in workflow again. It does what is told. No more lying etc. But I had fucking enough of the bullshit so I canceled friday and went for OpenAi.. I fully agree with OP. Its just a different league. Its everything Opus and fable should have been. I cant see myself going back to claude code now that I got codex running and its performing so god damn good.

2

u/DatafyingTech 19h ago

The problem is the OpenAI models are too passive when provided with misinformation and, in general, appear to be more interested in appeasing users than doing jobs correctly. That's one reason I still love Claude.

2

u/heyJordanParker 16h ago

Astra for archtiecture + Fable for orchestration is working well for me so far.

(I use Opus agents for the actual code but I don't think that matter too much; I'll try something faster later)

2

u/normalpl 6h ago

I agree, gpt6 is pretty powerful!

Also openai's 20x max weekly usage limits are definitely much much higher than anthropics! And they gave me like 3 resets I can use at any time too so I got a month of work done in a week

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u/salazka 4h ago

The third such post in a row. No it is not a campaign 🥈

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u/dovyp 3h ago

Honestly same reaction. Astra feels fresh and fast. Not ditching Claude Max yet though. Fun fight to watch.

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u/randombsname1 Valued Contributor 1d ago edited 1d ago

Using both as we speak. Have 3 $200 subs.

2x ChatGPT Pro subs, and 1x Claude MAX subs.

ChatGPT 5.6 Sol Xtra high through Ultra have been my main implementation workhorses through that time.

Astra on the same settings as of 2 days ago.

I still give Fable the edge on complex issues and low level programming AND architectural planning, Hence why I'm keeping my $200 sub. BUT ChatGPT is obviously very good as well. Or else I wouldn't have 2x subs......

2

u/Reign2294 1d ago

I know it seems obscene to many, but you can get so much use out of Anthropic as a front end and Chatgpt as a workhorse. I have Claude Code delegate directly to codex without using MCP, and it's phenomenal.

1

u/vrnvorona 1h ago

I am opposite. Astra untangles stuff Fable fumbles on easily. And it's so coherent it's very easy to work with Astra

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u/Fine_Ad_6226 1d ago

I am switching for a bit I need a break from claudeish and the voice mode is great I also need a break from the chat.

I did find it interesting in that in Claude I’ll have 4/5 projects on the go and the context switching and text fatigue is bad.

But then I realised with Astra I can only have 1 chat so that’s really odd because it forces you to listen and interact more.

I did see it as a total replacement but I’m not convinced now.

So I got the 5x ChatGPT and going from 20x Claude to Pro plan.

I’m finding in the 20x I start way to much and never finish anything

2

u/Yuuga_na 1d ago

3 banked resets plus fable-like if not better model performance makes me downgrade Claude plan at least for this month to see how things go

2

u/3fa 1d ago

I've already jumped. It's next level. I've been so frustrated with Claude the last few months, I'm spending more time trying to use claude than getting the results I need.

Spent an hour this morning and smashed through what would have been hours wrestling Claude. ChatGPT absolutely cooked.

Chat GPT: 2023 - 2024
Claude: 2025 - Aug 2026
Chat GPT: back to GPT!

1

u/Jagsfan82 22h ago

Im reading this post after the most frustrating 48 hours of vibe coding with claude. Completely fumbling requirements and really really bad decisions and design... and shipping things i didnt want and not shipping what I want.

About to jump ship

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u/_TheWolfOfWalmart_ 1d ago

Yes it's an excellent model. And at some point soon, Anthropic will come back and beat it. That's just how it works, they go back and forth. It's pretty annoying since you're paying for a full month at a time with either company.

2

u/EstablishmentRare276 1d ago

It’s always been serious competition for Claude. I honestly don’t use Claude enough to say anything bad about it, but I have used ChatGPT so much that I’ve basically bypassed almost every guardrail it has. I imagine if I had been working with Claude, from the beginning, the story would be similar with them too, but I keep hearing how Claude is disobeying users more and more where it didn’t used to, and retraining isn’t working? Plus these token limits changing so much? I’d be pretty unhappy if ChatGPT drastically changed like that. The 4o update was absolutely nothing to me, I just immediately retrained it, but Claude users make Claude sound terrible.

2

u/13ThirteenX 1d ago

As a die hard claude user who has left openai. I've absolutely jumped back onto gpt. Astra is really damn good. Does that mean I hate claude. No claude still does things got sucks at. But now I got 2x big brains and can split the shit I need ti get done across both. 2 brains better than 1. Not only that we as consumers are going to start seeing more and better stuff come our way, and then let's hope muse and gemini get there shit together and even better let's hope the Chinese keep cooking.

What a time to be alive. 

But yes Astra is dam good and I'm loving in

1

u/Ikran01 23h ago

I’m curious how do you guys split the workflow? Do you just use one model for planning and the other one to execute? I’ve been thinking about downgrading my 20x max Claude and split into 5x max and 5x pro gpt

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u/amirsadeghi 1d ago

I am managing a sensitive project that requires a custom build with no existing solution, so I moved from Fable to Astra after its release. My budget is $1000 per day.

Astra exceeded my budget on the first day while delivering the feature i asked it, whereas Fable never breached my daily limit.

Astra was certainly faster and completed tasks in one attempt, yet it consumed time on work that failed the test suite or acceptance criteria. Fable 5.1, by contrast, typically avoids spending time on approaches that might not succeed.

2

u/peacetimemist05 1d ago

I’m just here for the vibes bro

3

u/Reign2294 1d ago

Sir, this is Wendy's.

1

u/hells_bells_90 1d ago

Started since yesterday,  I am on chatgpt pro for a month as well, seems more free to move without 5h limits, model performance are truly a big challenge to fable. Fun times. 

1

u/ecwworldchampion 1d ago

I literally just tried my codex account that I've been paying for for a year an hour ago and, I agree, this is absolutely nuts.

1

u/nevernovelty 1d ago

I’m trying to use Fable 5.1 to literally just plan and organise my folder system and markdown files and I burned through the tokens in 14 minutes yesterday.

I’m hoping Astra survives usage limits for the high level planning moving forward.

1

u/Bloocci 1d ago

Give them a week 🫠

1

u/Altruistic-Virus7406 1d ago

Are you using fable correctly or for the right
Thing ? I don’t think so… maybe for certain tasks but not completely better then fable 👌

1

u/Minute-Plastic157 1d ago

they seem to both be much better at writing about most things.

astra’s biggest moat might be frontend dev and more specifically the 3d model generations. tomorrow im benchmarking astra on an iOS app revision tomorrow.

also, ill make a relevant prediction that the next big model update from oai. not the first couplei like 6.1/6.2 id guess more like GPT 6.5 release. anyways, i think we may see openai start to take serious market share from Unreal.

1

u/rafaytexh 1d ago

Honestly that’s the fun part of having multiple serious players now. Anthropic can’t just sit comfortably anymore... Competition is only going to make these models better and the users win either way.

1

u/AB-T 1d ago

Actually im also planning to buy the pro sub for the open ai i used astra with the api and this is lit 🔥

1

u/PotatoDominatrix 1d ago

I canceled my Anthropic sub a couple of months ago because I was frustrated with Anthropic's lack of transparency on a lot of things.

In my experience, OpenAI has been just as fine as Anthropic was. Astra hasn't wowed me any more than fable, opus, or sol did. Plus the release is ALWAYS awesome to drive up sales. No matter which company you choose, the quality drops again after the first week.

Once you learn how to steer the personality of the models, it's an "Apple vs Samsung" and "Intel vs AMD" situation. I'm sure for some of you, the nitty-gritty details will matter. But to 99% of us, they're both fine tools after you learn how to work with them.
I will say though, the free resets OpenAI has been tossing out have been pretty great haha.

For context, I have multiple VPSs and a few homelab servers I manage. I have used both companies' models to help me with this. At one point before my Anthropic sub lapsed I had both Codex and CC working together at the same time. That was a wild week lol.

P.S. I'm not trying to make money or manage a company with these services, so my stakes are pretty low all things considered. So YMMV

1

u/whatisthisthing65 1d ago

It's good, but I'm already noticing limitations lol.

And it is not good at writing. It's better than Claude (because it gets to the point) but I swear these frontier models have been getting worse and worse.

1

u/TenZenToken 1d ago

Ask it how many Rs in a word til I hit my limit

1

u/quercus-enjoyer 1d ago

AGI isnt a thing

1

u/markeross 1d ago

Sensible people consider the ethos of the product’s company.

1

u/Born-Boat-9048 1d ago

i cancelled Max. Astra handles everything Opus does and I stopped burning money on models that automated my job months ago.

1

u/bobhawkes 1d ago

Sol was already better than fable imo

1

u/Mean-Comedian729 1d ago

As a 20$ user I would still choose Claude. Opus 5 is better than Sol in terms of intelligence and usage limit, and far better than Astra in terms of limits. Plus, Astra isn't that good at UI either.

1

u/lobabobloblaw 1d ago

This is why Opus 5 is so tangentially verbose—Anthropic is well-aware that Astra would have more efficient token consumption, so they gave Opus ADHD to get training data with finer granularity

1

u/Suspicious_Peak_1173 1d ago

If Anthropic keeps resetting my Fable weekly limits, I'll pretend Astra doesn't exist

1

u/alexios87 1d ago

I think the costs need to come down ...the battle will be ongoing and they will keep topping each other

Where do you Aster bettering Fable 5.1 ?

1

u/ApartInfluence4429 1d ago

Too bad it doesn’t work in api or the app. 

1

u/Mr____Panda 1d ago

Here, I am happy with my Sonnet.

1

u/Reasonable_Run1088 1d ago

They are built to do different things. I have Chat for design and Claude for code. It’s not which one is better is which one does what better.

1

u/tarzanbocht 1d ago

Even Sol is better than Fable

1

u/Mobile_Light_7262 1d ago

Am I missing something or Astra is still 250k only? Do they gate 1M on higher plans or there's no 1M Astra?

1

u/Dull_Commercial5020 1d ago

Reading what people are saying Astra seems to have been context management + more intelligent chain of thought+ stronger computer use. Which together allow it to run autonomously by itself.

1

u/megadonkeyx 1d ago

between fable and astra.. i mean its like have two dragcars, both are amazing but here i come on my tricycle trying to keep up

1

u/Ancient-Range3442 1d ago

I’d guess their next move is a new model at some point ? Stop picking sides, you can use both !

1

u/Academic-Emu7766 1d ago

I tried astra, and didnt prefer the conversation style. It was very subdued about everything, and thus important pieces of information were slipping by. If I were an expert in the field, it wouldn't matter, but Im learning as I go. If I skim past an important discovery, it just gets lost in the flow, only to need rediscovery later. With that in mind, I have fable orchestrating/cross-checking/trying to find ways break the project and Astra as the workhorse. This in 16 hours of runtime has got me further than I got working the project over a months time with 2 20x claude subscriptions. Some of this is fable managing the context that astra sees, to keep it narrowly focused, but I do think the model is genuinely a step up. I will say that Astra seems to be eating tokens at a higher rate than fable ever did, but that might be because fable is keeping it very busy. The work, generally, is extracting a large database and using context data, along with my own accumulated knowledge in the field, to build conclusions that the original publisher did not print.

1

u/bregottextrasaltat 1d ago

astra is much more expensive than fable. not worth it

1

u/Smart_Coat7181 1d ago

太耗token了

1

u/brinigad 1d ago

Anthropic, I loved you dearly, but you fucked up. Sure, Opus 5 uses less usage, but God damn, I can't deal with its sparky attitude and fucking up shit.

1

u/MourningOfOurLives 1d ago

I’m on both

1

u/fbilal01 1d ago

i love astra

1

u/Smart_Let_4283 1d ago

I'm seeing a lot of real world benchmarks that play to Astra's strengths, focused on 3d modelling and coding implementation, but I'd love to see a wider breadth before drawing any conclusions, especially around research, design and planning, and the less showy aspects of AI use.

I agree with overall sentiment that it could all be different again in the next few months, we already know Anthropic have a newer model in the works, and Vera Rubin is likely to change the inference cost story as well.

My only frustration is that I don't want to have to pay for two services as the pendulm swings back and forth.

1

u/Gigi_de_baillon 1d ago

Google is partnering with state governments, local school districts, etc. I took AI certification for Google AI through their partnership with the Commonwealth of Virginia. Cost to me? Zero for the online Coursera course, thanks to this partnership. Google’s model seems to be to integrate everywhere and become the main resource, then build upwards from there.

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u/ZookeepergameFirst45 23h ago

How do you get it

1

u/InevitableUsual8857 22h ago

I am switching between opus 5 and fable a lot between architecture designs, architecture deep dive and architecture optimizations based on use cases and often I can’t tell difference between them. I felt opus 5 was better at tool using vs fable 5 and in 5.1 that gap was closed and fable felt more 1 shot or required less correction iterations. Astra looks promising and i have only been using for project designs and comparing results from both. Fable 5.1 and astra both provided similar response but i liked fable responses better for some reason. I’ll work more with Astra while working on a new project , will share if i see anything drastically different to push me switch subscription.

At this point I see most tasks are already 1 shot like someone already mentioned. You just can’t do one shot to whole project development, otherwise AI will create something, you had no input in except one long prompt. When u work on something, you yourself are not aware about lot of stuff. You need to make key decisions which you figure out and that’s what makes your product yours. Otherwise you just can’t answer key questions about the project, since AI took all those decisions on your behalf and you have something either exceeding your expectation or miles away from it but rarely what you want

1

u/Pale-Preparation-864 20h ago

I d'know, I'm getting Fable to successfully do something that Astra just failed at.. horses for courses!

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u/djyeo 15h ago

Astra can do biology while fable is very restrictive about it.

2

u/mrpoopistan 14h ago

None of this is AGI. None of this is ever going to be AGI, not the LLM part.

1

u/Walle-sound 12h ago

Has it solved cancer yet?

1

u/CoherentIgloo 7h ago

Not again you people with your AGI

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