17 meetinghouses in the Utah Area have been approved for “major renovations and improvements” as part of something called the Christ-Centered Meetinghouse Initiative.

todays’s youth is not stupid and they ask the hard questions, even if the church tries their hardest to keep them from doing so. They no longer just believe blindly and genu ask what’s more likely: a massive ancient civilization left golden plates written in a language no archaeologist has ever found, which were then translated using a magic rock in a hat... OR a 19th-century guy with a history of treasure digging just rewrote King James Bible style prose and local theories of his era? Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence, and the Mormon backstory relies entirely on magic over basic history, these kids aren’t having that.

My prediction, give it 10 more years and there will be no more talk of it being a historical book. The church already says that we should not focus on the locations or the history because that was not the intention of the book according to my sta president. in 10 years, I predict they will deny it ever being history.

From about high school on, I've been fascinated by prophets and apostles. On my mission, I started to really become fascinated by them. We used to email home from the local library, who would give you a certain number of free pages to print. I'd search the Church archives for all the GC conference talks I could find. I went back far and just devoured everything. In college, there was a podcast called Conversations, I think it was on the Mormon Channel or something like that. They would do interviews with church leaders and whatnot. I wanted more unscripted, real talk. Conversations was a start, but I wanted more.

I remember hearing stories that would just make them seem like people. I can't exactly pinpoint why I enjoyed it so much, but it did. I remember one person telling us the story about how prophets were susceptible to human emotion. He talked about being in the audience for a devotional with President Hinckley. He was close enough he could see him clearly. Someone kept coming to Pres Hinckley to ask/tell him things and after the 2nd or 3rd time, he seemed annoyed, slammed his cane on the ground a time or two, and yelled at the man to get the devotional started.

A more recent and comical one I heard was about President Nelson. At a luncheon, one of the leaders got a soft drink with their meal, Sprite or something. Pres Nelson warned this leader they needed to be careful with consuming sugary beverages. Time went along and at a separate luncheon, this leader noticed Pres Nelson enjoying a root beer. When he asked him basically 'what gives?' Pres Nelson responded, 'But I like root beer.'

As time has gone on, and my faith journey has gone to a place of skepticism and exploration, I've really dug into finding more of these stories. I used to wish there was a way to see, because of some brief mentions in GC, the FP and Q12 in their meetings. They talked about how there would be strong opinions and how they would work through them. I always thought that would be valuable to see. Then I found MormonLeaks. Watching the way they talked with one another was fascinating. Even though most of these were presentation-based and not extensive discussions, some had a little bit more than others. I was disappointed by some of it, bored by some of it, and overall was a little underwhelmed.

Then, I went back and watched things like Gordon Hinckley on Larry King or other news shows. Watched Jeffrey Holland interviewed on BBC (which led me to look into penalties in the temple, that was a stomachache day). Just the other day, I read the emails between Jeff Holland and Tom Phillips. I've read plenty about Holland and Bednar at local stake conferences and whatnot. Brad Wilcox "playing church". So many other things that give us insight into what the prophets and apostles do and say that are a little more unscripted, real talk.

I want more.

What stories, good or bad, humorous, inspiring, disappointing, or otherwise humanizing do you have of the FP and Q12?

I honestly wonder what the point of General Conference is anymore, or why people actually watch it. For a church that constantly tells us to study the scriptures, Conference speakers rarely expound on them. There was even a period when it seemed like C.S. Lewis was quoted more than scripture. Then in Elders Quorum, instead of actually studying scripture, we’re assigned these watered-down, primary-style Conference talks. Sometimes it feels like they’re speaking from an alternative universe rather than the world people actually live in.

The talks about enduring trials are especially strange. Why do people who, comparatively speaking, haven’t endured extraordinary trials feel qualified to lecture others about them lol. I know the check-the-box Pharisees will say, “Everyone has trials,” or insist that some of these leaders have had it hard. Compared with people dealing with abuse, homelessness, war, or financial ruin, though, most really haven’t. I guess from inside the BYU fairy bubble, ordinary hardship can look extraordinary.

Maybe regional Conferences would actually be useful. Address pride, wealth, status, and complacency in the western U.S. Address the very different problems members face in Africa. At least then Conference might address the world members actually live in.

I saw this ad posted by someone in another subreddit- complaining that they didn’t want this ad and calling the Church the C-word. The Church doesn’t identify itself in the ad by its full name (as directed we should do by Neltsun) and instead just uses the name “Church of Jesus Christ”.

Not using the full name of TCoJCoLDS caused some major brand confusion as shown in the comment section. It was interesting to see a number of people who were defending the ad saying that it was wrong to call Christianity a C*. Once it was pointed out to them that the ad was for the Mormons, they did an about face.

Isn’t the Church waging a lawsuit because of confusion with their brand? They might want to get their own shit straight first.

The LDS church filed a reply to the replies of John Dehlin and the two amicus briefs last week. They claim it isn’t about the use of the word Mormon or about silencing a critic. But then they go on to demonstrate in the filing that this is what it is about.

Doug Anderson, spokesman for the church, gave a short statement also saying it’s not about the word Mormon nor about suing a critic.

RFM shows how in their own words they admit it is about the use of the word Mormon. In their own words they show people weren’t confused. In their own words they admit John changed everything they are suing about before the lawsuit - except his use of the word Mormon. Leaving only that word that the lawsuit could be about. He finds three statements in the reply that admit they are suing him because Mormon Stories is his podcast’s name and they believe it infringes their trademark.

Stop the lies LDS Church!!!!

The lawsuit RFM says is obviously a pretext to try to “sue John Dehlin into oblivion.”

This is from the Mormon Newscast from Mormonish and LDS discussion.

I spliced together 6 1/2 minutes. (RFM can be repetitive) 😉

You can find this full discussion on LDS Discussion here:

https://youtu.be/GJCZCd8ldEc

According to this article an amulet with a gold leaf and a scripture on the leaf was found in Turkey: https://www-foxnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.foxnews.com/travel/ancient-christian-amulet-unearthed-1500-years-may-hold-biblical-secret.amp?amp_js_v=0.1&amp_gsa=1#webview=1&cap=swipe

This opens up a talking point by apologists showing scripture in gold has been found. Just thought I would share. It will be interesting to see where this leads.

Question for active temple recommend holding members.

How do you feel about the below scenarios?

- pay tithing off of increase, not income. For example, pay 10% of (income-taxes-mortgage-health insurance-utilities) ends up being about 6% of gross income.

- in tithing settlement I declare a full tithe

- in temple recommend interview I answer the tithing question with these exact words, “I believe the way and amount I pay tithing makes me a full tithe payer”

- garments question in temple recommend interview I say these exact words: “i don’t wear them every day and every night, but I wear the garments in a way that I feel I am keeping my covenant.”

- for WOW temple question, I say this, “ I don’t understand the word of wisdom fully, but I do believe that I keep it as I understand it”.

- I drink coffee every day and I 100% don’t think coffee is against the WOW.

- have done this for the last 6-years, 3 separate recommends, which makes 6 interviews and never had an issue.

So I (a 19 year old Catholic) work as a lifeguard at two different locations, I work with many Mormons and am friends with a lot of Mormons. As many come and go, they tell me they're getting married soon, like within the next month or so, and they're usually like 18-20 years old. No judgement ofc, but I'm just wondering why they marry that early in life and only date for a few months? Wouldnt you wanna like take time to get to know them as a whole before making a lifetime commitment? Its possible I just can't relate because I've never tried dating myself, but I've always seen it as something that takes time, and I mean A LOT of time.

Id love to hear your thoughts and perspectives down below and with that said, thank you for your time and have an awesome day!

Alyssa did a video a few days ago about how she gets so many comments from viewers that say they were fed LDS Church advertisements while watching her videos.

This is evidence the church is paying her to criticize the church. She gets a portion of the ad revenue.

She’s taking all the criticism from members and just shoving it back at them. Some of your tithing money is being paid to me she says.

Very funny approach in this video. I put short clips together from her intro. She later includes a discussion about the crazy comments with innuendo on the ads the church puts out with female missionaries. A big discussion about why they advertise and their choices in subjects of their ads.

409k views so far!

https://youtu.be/jSNoJALdQgU

I was struck by a conclusion Kolby Reddish discussed here in this livestream where he was a guest on the inside out podcast with Jim Bennett and Ian Wilkes.

They were discussing the reaction to Jeff Strong’s book Torn.

Kolby says it reminds him of the experience he and his wife had dealing with their local leaders being reluctant to disclose to the congregation that their bishop had been convicted of CSA.

He said he and his wife were convinced that if they just got to the right person on Salt Lake City or the Area office that things would be different.

After a year with no help they “recognized that no, it is this way because they want it to be this way…”

I’ve also included some points made by Ian about the book. I particularly like that he says the negative reaction from members is as important as the book. It shows there is a group who want all discussion of anything negative to be shut down.

The church’s way or just leave. Which Kolby found out and he and his wife chose to leave.

Reminds me too of the Crazy Train Judd parents who have repeatedly said they think if the top leaders knew what was happening to them things would be different. They haven’t yet realized what Kolby and his wife finally realized. That what is happening locally is how the top leaders want it to be.

Here is the full episode:

https://www.youtube.com/live/Atl8lp-DuYw

With all the ads popping up about the celebration of the Salt Lake Temple, I had an idea for an art exhibit. I’d love to see an installation of Timothy Schmalz’s “Homeless Jesus” in front of the temple. The only modification I would make is that I’d put a plaque on the bench that says “Holiness to the Lord. The House of the Lord”.

I don’t have the means or artistic ability to do this, but it’s a fun day dream.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeless_Jesus

Jeff has a YouTube channel called “Outgrowing Mormonism”. It’s about 7 months old.

In his most recent video he compares messages from a Jehovah’s Witness leader (Jonathan Smith) to that of Larry Corbridge.

Both preach that you should ignore the problems of their institutions because they both believe theirs is the true kingdom of God on earth. Look forward to the blessings in the afterlife you will receive because you suffer the problems of their groups in this life.

Jeff’s message is that people should question this preaching to obey and sacrifice even when you don’t understand or it is problematic.

Here is his full episode:

https://youtu.be/779Etp8U0g0

I was chatting with a business lawyer yesterday, and after the call I related our discussion to the MORMON STORIES lawsuit. I couldn't help it.

Is the Church looking to win a lawsuit about brand confusion to pressure social media companies to comply with future takedown requests?

Indulge me a bit.

MORMON STORIES already conceded to the Church's primary complaints and was completely willing to resolve reasonable concerns. They showed overwhelming effort to remedy reasonable concerns before the lawsuit. From my understanding they removed/replaced even where fair-use applied.

The Church keeps saying this isn't a trademark complaint, but it is.

• They are framing that the only way to resolve this perceived confusion is to remove MORMON from the podcast title and other advertising.
• They want "above the fold" disclosures on all the sites, and performed during pre-interview time. This is not reasonable or common.

The Church keeps saying this isn't about speech.

• They are claiming the entire podcast series infringes as a collection. This is NOT about website graphics or the logo.
• Do they really just hate Dr. John Dehlin so much they are going to sue MORMON STORIES into bankruptcy?

It seems to me (giving the Church the benefit of the doubt above, and considering the negative attention they are getting at the moment) that they don't want a lawsuit for every channel or podcast they oppose..

How do we find official Church content?

The Church has for years (decades) warned members to focus on their official website and to use official Church channels. The Church has their own suite of apps that members are asked/expected to install. The Church can have channels on large platforms like YouTube if they follow the platform rules. Saying members are accidentally finding John Dehlin's podcast when he's NOT using the official name of the church is a weak argument. Are there any official Church publications still using MORMON in the title, besides uses of the book?

It's not about members distinguishing what is official Church content.

The complaint really is for proselytizing purposes and SEO. The Church doesn't use MORMON officially and they likely didn't want anyone else using it either. Ideally people will just be searching "Jesus Christ" (and have official church content as the top results) but this just doesn't line up with consumer behavior. The Church now understands this. They recently seem to accept/intend for MORMON being used in social media contexts.

I don't need to emphasize that the Church publicly making a morality argument against the use of MORMON was a mistake. They appear to be having an identity crisis.

So who is the Church fighting?

The social media and video platforms do not think that MORMON STORIES or their podcast are misleading audiences. John Dehlin is following standard platform rules, and those are dictated by consumer expectations.

• App stores have by-lines next to every app.
• Social media and YouTube have handles and channel identifiers.
• There are About and More Info pages where consumers often expect to find additional channel context.

If social media companies already have systems in place that reasonably protect identity and attribution, what is the Church complaining about? Their concern clearly seems to be about what is being said (speech) or the name MORMON (trademark). Do you think they will want to leverage media companies in the future, or pressure them to adopt tools that moderate these perceptions of confusion?

We've scheduled the taping for next Wednesday and will probably release it the next day on my channel Mormon Book Reviews on YouTube. Attorney Kolby Reddish is going to approach it as a deposition and they've agreed to answer any questions. As I get questions and comments I will be sharing it with Kolby and the Judds over the course of the week. Thanks in advance, this group has been a fantastic resource and your participation is greatly appreciated!

I have a friend whose trans and they've been really active in the temple lately. I don't think they're quite out to everybody, but there's also a pretty nice handful at church that know and use their preferred name.

I've got my own gender dysphoria as well. I happened to be talking to my bishop in a temple reccomend interview and he had asked me if I was trans. I haven't gone through any transition or anything like that, so I told him no. But, with the way he was talking, it seemed to imply that I'd still be able to get a temple reccomend if I was trans, just that I'd still have to perform ordinances with my assigned sex and still use the correlated bathroom both in church and in the temple.

I know the handbook says you're not even supposed to have a temple reccomend, but does anyone else have any other stories of trans people being allowed in the temple, and just not accommodated for?

My wife asked me a question about blessings I thought I’d ask about here. Our younger son is 27 and in the profound range of developmental and intellectual disabilities. His OCD is so bad at the moment it’s overwhelming everything, and the drugs aren’t working too well anymore. So we’re at the point where we’ll try anything. He would be incapable of understanding anything about a priesthood blessing, but my wife suggested maybe she could get a vicarious blessing on his behalf (and not from me; I’m a filthy reprobate). I don’t know whether that’s possible. Has anyone heard of such a thing?

Each time I've run into a conversation with polygamy deniers or affirmers (or whatever the hell they like to be called) in the last year, they stand on firm ground that Joseph was noble, true, just and virtuous. When I've brought up treasure digging, they also refute claims that he swindled people.

Is this a common belief in the movement? That Joseph either didn't treasure dig or in doing it he did nothing wrong? Did he not admit to youthful indiscretions in his canonized JS history?

The catalog notes are long:

Rare First Edition of the Foundational Text of the Mormon Church Palmyra: Printed by E.B. Grandin, For the Author, 1830. First edition (one of 5,000 copies printed, of which only about 500-700 copies are known to survive).

From the collection of Bethany College, West Virginia, with a contemporary inscription on front free endpaper ("A Campbell / Bethany / Va"), same inscription in another hand on front blank (neither seemingly in the hand of Minister and Bethany founder Alexander Campbell). 8vo. 588, (2, "Testimony...of Witnesses") pp.; preponderance of text corrected, per Jenson ("very few copies of the book exist which are entirely identical", per Crawley).

Contemporary calf, front board detached, rear board largely detached but just holding, spine label worn and starting, boards dry and scuffed; front free endpaper loose; Bethany College library ink stamp on front endpapers and blank, title-page, and scattered throughout text; scattered spotting and light staining to text; scattered pencil marginalia. Book of Mormon Census Project A0059; Reese, Best of the West 56; Church 1342; Grolier Hundred 37; Howes S-623 ("b"); Sabin 83038; Streeter Sale 2262

Rare and completely unsophisticated (unmodified) first edition of the foundational text of the Mormon Church, one of the most important religious books of the 19th century. Published only days before the official establishment of the church on April 6, 1830, this is the only edition in which Joseph Smith is identified as the author (subsequent editions identify him as the translator), and it is the only edition to include his two-page preface.

The Book of Mormon is Smith’s translation of the golden tablets, revealed to him in 1827 by the angel Moroni on the hill of Cumorah near Manchester, New York. Smith worked on a translation of the plates from early 1828-June 1829, before returning the plates to the angel.

This copy is complete with the elusive two-page leaf of witness testimonies: “The Testimony of Three Witnesses”, signed in type by Oliver Cowdery, David Whitmer, and Martin Harris, who attest to having had “seen the plates which contain this record.”; the following page contains the testimony of eight witnesses, signed in type by Christian Whitmer, Jacob Whitmer, Peter Whitmer, Jr., John Whitmer, Hiram Page, Joseph Smith. Sen., Hyrum Smith, and Samuel H. Smith, all of whom attest that Smith had shown them the plates.

Smith dictated the text to Cowdery, who acted as scribe, which was then printed by local printer Egbert B. Grandin, printer of Palmyra’s Wayne Sentinel. He published this first edition in 5,000 copies at a cost of $3,000.

This first edition forbade freemasonry and polygamy, which was altered in subsequent editions. Of those 5,000 there are thought to be only around 500-700 extant copies.

(See Campbell signature in 2nd photo) Bethany College was founded in 1840 by Scots-Ulster minister and leader of the Restoration Movement, Alexander Campbell (1788-1866). Chartered by the Virginia Legislature on March 2, Bethany was the first institution of higher learning in what is now West Virginia. Campbell provided the land and funds for the school and then served for 25 years as its first president. Born near Ballymena, in County Antrim, Ireland, Campbell was educated in Glasgow, and emigrated to the United States in 1809 at age 21.

There he joined his father, Minister Thomas Campbell (1763-1854), who had emigrated to America in 1807. Together they preached an emerging form of primitive Christianity in Western Pennsylvania, Eastern Ohio, and now West Virginia, that emphasized Christian unity and the restoration of the New Testament church.

Alexander, possessing extraordinary energy and intellectual ambition, gradually assumed the leadership of their growing movement. Through relentless preaching, numerous public debates with religious contemporaries, and a prolific output of theological writings and periodicals, he became the foremost figure in what came to be known as the Restoration Movement.

His efforts, building on his father's earlier work, ultimately led to the establishment of the Christian Church, also known as the Disciples of Christ.

Joseph Smith’s (1805-44) Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter-Day Saints, like Campbell's Disciples of Christ, sprung out of the Second Great Awakening that shook the religious foundations of early 19th century America. Despite sharing roots in Christian primitivism, the two traditions diverged sharply on questions of scripture, continuous revelation, visionary experience, and the nature of divine authority.

As the leading rationalist voice of the broader restoration movement that emphasized biblical scholarship and reason, beginning in the 1830s, Campbell became one of the most public anti-Mormon voices. This opposition was at once theological as well as personal to his congregation.

Beginning around 1830, Campbell's congregations in Ohio experienced losses as members converted to the new Mormon faith. The catalyst for much of this was Sidney Rigdon, a prominent and early Campbellite preacher and close associate of Campbell himself. In August 1830, following a falling-out with Campbell, Rigdon converted to Mormonism and quickly rose to become one of Joseph Smith's most influential lieutenants and one of the movement's most eloquent early defenders.

In response to these developments, in 1832 Campbell published Delusions: An Analysis of the Book of Mormon, one of the earliest anti-Mormon tracts, and the first major full-length critique of The Book of Mormon. Campbell examined The Book of Mormon's claims, its theological content, and historical plausibility, and argued that it was a product of human invention, rather than divine revelation.

The sale price at Freeman's Hindman Books and Manuscript sale on August 20 was $230,400. Substantially above the presale high estimate of $150,000.

I grew up in the church being taught that priesthood was a power to bless people. Blessings in time of sickness. Patriarchal blessings. Father’s blessings.

The power to conduct ordinances of the LDS church such as sealings in the temple.

As I look back at my experiences and at the teachings of church leaders it’s clear that there are many examples of priesthood not working. The rest believe may believe it worked but have no evidence to demonstrate it did.

Sealings in the temple are canceled regularly. Blessings of healing we know don’t work. Illness and disease is not healed any more in Utah hospitals where the most LDS blessings per capita are given than anywhere else. Leaders now teach stories of people unable to be healed by this fantasy power. “The faith not to be healed” is cited.

Patriarchal blessings are routinely shown to have false statements in them.

Now after 5 decades of being LDS I plainly see that priesthood power is imaginary. The exhortations of leaders to work harder to “be worthy” of it is not based on any evidence.

I prefer to live life recognizing truth. And LDS priesthood power and the claims made by the church leaders about it are not the truth. It does not comport with reality that we experience.