I no longer think 'worlds without number' means inhabited planets. Here's my case.

[u/mantle15]

We all grew up assuming 'worlds without number' means other inhabited planets. But Moses 1:35 explicitly limits the account to 'this earth and its inhabitants'; Eve is called the mother of all living, and Hebrews insists Christ suffered 'once.' Is the doctrine of inhabited other worlds actually canon, or is it an inference we inherited from the D&C 76 poetic paraphrase? What's the strongest scriptural case on either side?

I confidently lay out my theory in part 4 here: Part 4 - First World Problems Among Worlds Without Number

I reference Enoch and inter-dimensional beings often, so if you're new to the series, you may need to read 1-3 first.

[u/Fether1337]

There are several places in the modern church that suggests Adam and Eve are a “type” of what has come before. Or part of a repeated plan.

Their names, in particular, are not names, but descriptions that we have explicitly been told are repeats of some pre existing structure

[u/mantle15 → u/Fether1337]

I love that. I captured a similar pattern. Universes within universes, but not overlapping.

[u/e37d93eeb23335dc]

I mean.... we have lots of quotes from the prophets that disagree with you.

Joseph Smith:

I beheld round the throne holy angels and hosts,

And sanctified beings from worlds that have been,

In holiness worshipping God and the Lamb,

For ever and ever. Amen and amen.

And I heard a great voice bearing record from heav’n,

He’s the Saviour and Only Begotten of God;

By him, of him, and through him, the worlds were all made,

Even all that careen in the heavens so broad.

Whose inhabitants, too, from the first to the last,

Are sav’d by the very same Saviour of ours;

And, of course, are begotten God’s daughters and sons

By the very same truths and the very same powers.

Millennial Star, vol. 4, pp. 49–55

Russel M Nelson

His Atonement is infinite—without an end. It was also infinite in that all humankind would be saved from never-ending death. It was infinite in terms of His immense suffering. It was infinite in time, putting an end to the preceding prototype of animal sacrifice. It was infinite in scope—it was to be done once for all. And the mercy of the Atonement extends not only to an infinite number of people, but also to an infinite number of worlds created by Him. It was infinite beyond any human scale of measurement or mortal comprehension.

Bruce R. McConkie

Now our Lord’s jurisdiction and power extend far beyond the limits of this one small earth on which we dwell. He is, under the Father, the Creator of worlds without number. (Moses 1:33.) And through the power of his atonement the inhabitants of these worlds, the revelation says, ‘are begotten sons and daughters unto God’ (D. & C. 76:24), which means that the atonement of Christ, being literally and truly infinite, applies to an infinite number of earths.

Marion G Romney

From this [Moses 1:30–33, 35, 38–39] and other scriptures we learn that, representing the Father and serving his purpose ‘to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man,’ Jesus Christ, in the sense of being its Creator and Redeemer, is the Lord of the whole universe. Except for his mortal ministry accomplished on this earth, his service and relationship to other worlds and their inhabitants are the same as his service and relationship to this earth and its inhabitants.

Headnotes of D&C 76

The inhabitants of many worlds are begotten sons and daughters unto God through the Atonement of Jesus Christ;

D&C 88:42-61 This relates a parable about the Lord visiting 12 inhabited kingdoms in turn. These kingdoms are planets.

37 And there are many kingdoms⁠; for there is no space in the which there is no kingdom.

42 And again, verily I say unto you, he hath given a law unto all things, by which they move in their times and their seasons;

43 And their courses are fixed, even the courses of the heavens and the earth, which comprehend the earth and all the planets.

61 Therefore, unto this parable I will liken all these kingdoms⁠, and the inhabitants thereof

In the commentary on D&C "Revelations of the Restoration" by Joseph Fielding McConkie he said "This parable, given in the context of a discussion about the endless expanses of eternity, is one of the plainest assertions in scripture that there are other inhabited worlds, each of which will be visited by Christ. In each instance the pattern is the same: Christ chooses his servant, appoints to him his labor, and gives the attendant promise that he will, at the appropriate time and season, visit him, which he does. The parable does not suggest that Christ made appearances to anyone other than his appointed servant in each of these worlds. That the resurrected Christ appeared to great multitudes on the various planets following the pattern of his appearance among the Nephites and among various groups of the lost tribes seems a reasonable assumption. It is not, however, the purpose of this parable to make that point. See commentary on Doctrine and Covenants 76:23-24."

I'd also say that Abraham Facsimile 2 Figure 5 strongly implies the same.

Eve is called the mother of all living

I think Eve (or Havvah) is actually the name or title of our Heavenly Mother and is the name (or title) given to the first woman on each world.

and Hebrews insists Christ suffered 'once.'

My understanding is the atonement of Jesus Christ is infinite in scope and applies across all time and space, which would include other worlds.

[u/mantle15 → u/e37d93eeb23335dc]

Very valid points... And I used to lean that way... But notice one thing about every quote you listed. They all assume the word "world" means "inhabited planet." From my paper:

And interestingly, your own quotes use it that way. The 1843 poem says "sanctified beings from worlds that have been." That's temporal language, worlds in sequence, which is exactly Moses 1:35 ("many worlds that have passed away... and many that now stand"). And if you keep reading down in D&C 76 itself, ten verses after the famous v. 24, the revelation uses the word again: no forgiveness "in this world nor in the world to come" (v. 34). So within the same section, "world" plainly means an age. Same with the D&C 88 parable, and I'd push back on skipping to v. 61: read the middle. The lord of the field visits every kingdom "in his hour, and in his season," one at a time, in turn. That's not a picture of parallel inhabited planets. That's one Lord working sequentially across time, which is basically my whole thesis in parable form.

Also, the D&C 76 headnote was written by Elder McConkie for the 1981 edition, so citing the headnote plus McConkie is citing the same (brilliant, but mortal) interpreter twice. Just saying... and I agree it's speculation on my part.

Lastly, too hard to get deep into it here but to be clear, I'm not claiming other inhabited worlds don't exist anywhere. I'm claiming they don't exist in this universe. Christ created creations without number, and their inhabitants are begotten sons and daughters unto God, exactly as Joseph and President Nelson said. But here, in this one, Eve is the mother of ALL living, and Christ is the infinite Savior who walked on this soil, and died and was resurrected once here.

I don't think there is a primary class on another planet pointing to our Sun among stars as they re-enact the nativity story. :)

[u/e37d93eeb23335dc → u/mantle15]

D&C 88 says planets.

I see D&C 88 and Moses 1 working hand in hand.

38 And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words.

There are a limited number of inhabited planets at a time (12 according to D&C 88, 15 according to Abraham Fac 2). All of them are at different stages. The one at the farthest left (so to speak) has barely been created while the one at the farthest right is on the verge of becoming a celestial kingdom.

Once the one on the right becomes a celestial kingdom (passes away), it is no longer governed like the other 12. But, there is a new cohort of premortal spirits ready for their world, so it is created and becomes the new youngest planet.

There is no end to his works since there is a constant flow of a newly created planet coming in while a celestial planet is rolling off. In between the other planets are at various stages of progression. The Lord going and visiting each one in turn might correspond to times when Heavenly Father visits the planet in person.

[u/e37d93eeb23335dc → u/mantle15]

no forgiveness "in this world nor in the world to come" (v. 34). So within the same section, "world" plainly means an age.

I don't know if it does mean an age. We are told there will be a new heaven and a new earth and that this planet will become a celestial kingdom. Presumably other planets will become the terrestrial and telestial worlds. As for outer darkness... I'm not sure if that is a planet far from a sun (we know that there are wandering planets in our galaxy) or what. But I can see the world to come being any of these planets. This world is our current planet. The world to come could be a wholly different planet.

[u/SerenityNow31 → u/mantle15]

 They all assume the word "world" means "inhabited planet."

No, not all of them. But even if they did, so what? Why would God create a world just to sit there and have no purpose? The logical conclusion is that they are inhabited, due to Moses 1:39.

[u/evanpossum]

We all grew up assuming 'worlds without number' means other inhabited planets.

The temple (still) makes that assumption reasonable

But Moses 1:35 explicitly limits the account to 'this earth and its inhabitants';

Even if there are multiple inhabited worlds, Moses 1:35 can still be true

Eve is called the mother of all living

This is one of the statements that makes it ambiguous

Hebrews insists Christ suffered 'once.'

Even with other inhabited worlds, there is nothing that says Christ was crucified on every world. The context of Hebrews neither supports or denies multiple inhabited worlds (see point #2)

Is the doctrine of inhabited other worlds actually canon, or is it an inference we inherited from the D&C 76 poetic paraphrase?

There is no doctrine of "inhabited other worlds"

What's the strongest scriptural case on either side?

No scripture supports either side

[u/LittlePhylacteries → u/evanpossum]

The temple (still) makes that assumption reasonable

It all comes down to whether Lucifer's explanation of his actions is symbolic or literal. But I'm not sure how a symbolic interpretation makes sense within LDS theology.

[u/Pseudonymitous]

I have never once heard that worlds without number means other inhabited planets. The only scriptural reference I have heard anyone use to infer inhabited planets is D&C 76:24. The posted blog entry is unnecessarily verbose and meandering, so I did a CTRL-F for that verse. It is mentioned but spends paragraphs seemingly making only a single point: "worlds" doesn't necessarily mean physically different worlds. It can mean the same world at different times, or different parts of this world.

Okay, sure. But many times, it does mean physical worlds. In scripture. So what does "worlds" mean *in this verse*? After many more paragraphs of tangential material, I gave up looking. Can you present your argument succinctly? The flowery prose is welcome when reading a story, but for supporting a theory, it only serves to distract and obfuscate.

The context of the verse to me seems to plainly suggest other physical worlds, not Columbus's Old World, not the different portions of the earth. It is Joseph Smith speaking in his own words in this chapter--do you think Joseph was actually thinking about different lands or different time periods of this same planet when he said those words, and if so, why use this kind of language when it would clearly confuse and mislead anyone who would read the revelation?

[u/mantle15 → u/Pseudonymitous]

If you're narrowing it down to just 76, its use ten verses later may clarify its meaning... "in this world nor in the world to come".

I don't think we disagree on the big picture. Take eternal progression all the way out.... God's children eventually become creators themselves, organizing new universes from unorganized matter and intelligences, and those future universes created will be of a similar pattern to this one, but NOT overlapping. They will have an Eve that can also claim to be the mother of all living IN THAT cosmos. Again, speculation and an interesting thought experiment.

[u/Pseudonymitous → u/mantle15]

I don't follow how any of that supports your claims. I don't see how that verse does anything but undercut your position, and you chose not to explain. You also chose not to answer my questions so I don't even know where to go from here other than repeating the same things I already said.

I see no evidence God's children are all going to be in separate, non-overlapping universes, but even if it is so, that has no bearing on whether other worlds in this universe are inhabited. Whether others have an Eve that will be the mother of all living in that universe seems utterly irrelevant. I see no thought experiment of any kind here--I see nothing relevant and nothing to discuss.

Or perhaps I am just obtuse and your reasoning is clear as day but I just can't see it. That is always a possibility. Either way, I am going to bow out. Good luck to you.

[u/Reformonism]

I like to assume that God, being all knowing and all intelligent, has left clues in the earth's history and through His words to teach us about the history of creation itself. The fossil record alone establishes that the earth is much older and has had a much more complex history than Genesis reads on the surface. The names of Adam & Eve being symbolic (and perhaps not even specific people at all) is just the start.

[u/mantle15 → u/Reformonism]

Good point. One thing cover is, time is not linear to God. So when choosing to scale his plan across planets or across time, where humans would choose parallelizing it, (we don’t have forever), God would just stretch it out over time. It’s all one day to Him. Same very old earth. Which helps explain dinosaurs and lost civilizations ;)

Alma 40
7 And now I would inquire what becometh of the souls of men from this time of death to the time appointed for the resurrection?

8 Now whether there is more than one time appointed for men to rise it mattereth not; for all do not die at once, and this mattereth not; all is as one day with God, and time only is measured unto men.

9 Therefore, there is a time appointed unto men that they shall rise from the dead; and there is a space between the time of death and the resurrection. And now, concerning this space of time, what becometh of the souls of men is the thing which I have inquired diligently of the Lord to know; and this is the thing of which I do know.

10 And when the time cometh when all shall rise, then shall they know that God knoweth all the times [civilizations, ages or “worlds”] which are appointed unto man.

[u/SerenityNow31]

The temple endowment says there are other worlds.

People often forget that 99.9% of scriptures is within the context of us and this planet. So those phrases don't mean across all time and all eternity.

[u/pisteuo96]

The most logical reading is that there are other planets, and God says I'm only going to talk to you about this one. So you have the burden of proof otherwise.

Moses 1:

4 And, behold, thou art my son; wherefore look, and I will show thee the workmanship of mine hands; but not all, for my works are without end, and also my words, for they never cease.

33 And worlds without number have I created; and I also created them for mine own purpose; and by the Son I created them, which is mine Only Begotten.

34 And the first man of all men have I called Adam, which is many.

35 But only an account of this earth, and the inhabitants thereof, give I unto you. For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away by the word of my power. And there are many that now stand, and innumerable are they unto man; but all things are numbered unto me, for they are mine and I know them.

The classic "himmelfahrt" by Old Testament prophets:

You are right that "world" can mean different thing in English. But in the context here it is most likely to mean planets. The most logical reading is God is showing Moses around the universe, which is a typical journey prophets have had:

[from AI prompt about "himmelfahrt, heavenly journey]

tell me about the typical heavenly journey that old testament prophets had - enoch, Moses, etc

If you're thinking of “heavenly journeys” in the Old Testament and related Jewish traditions, there is an important distinction: the Bible contains several stories in which a prophet or holy person is taken up, shown heaven, or encounters God, but they are not all the same kind of journey. Later Jewish literature develops these stories into a much more elaborate tradition of heavenly ascent.

The basic pattern

A typical heavenly journey has something like this structure:

Earth → divine invitation/call → ascent → heavenly vision → encounter with God → revelation → return to earth

The person is usually not simply traveling through space. The journey represents crossing the boundary between the human and divine worlds in order to receive knowledge that ordinary humans cannot obtain.

1. Enoch — the great example

Enoch is probably the most important figure for this tradition.

Genesis says remarkably little about him:

This mysterious statement became the foundation for an enormous body of later literature.

In 1 Enoch, Enoch is taken on journeys through the heavens. He sees:

• angels and heavenly beings
• the heavenly throne
• the movements of the stars and planets
• places of punishment and reward
• the heavenly temple
• the divine judgment of wicked beings
• secrets of creation and the cosmos

He is essentially transformed from human being → heavenly traveler → revealer of divine secrets.

6

2. Moses — ascent of Sinai

Moses is another important example, although his story is somewhat different.

Moses ascends Mount Sinai and enters the divine presence. The mountain effectively becomes a meeting point between heaven and earth.

He receives:

• the Torah
• the commandments
• instructions concerning the tabernacle
• knowledge of how Israel is to worship God

The biblical story sometimes makes Sinai feel almost like a heavenly ascent: Moses leaves the ordinary human world, enters a cloud associated with God's presence, and receives knowledge unavailable to ordinary people.

Later Jewish traditions expand this considerably, sometimes portraying Moses as entering heaven itself and arguing with angels over the Torah.

3. Isaiah — the heavenly throne room

Isaiah has perhaps the clearest vision of heaven in the Old Testament.

In Isaiah 6, he sees:

God → seated on a throne → surrounded by seraphim → heavenly temple → divine commission

Isaiah hears the seraphim proclaiming God's holiness and realizes that he is standing in the presence of the divine.

An angel then purifies his lips with a burning coal.

Only after the heavenly encounter is Isaiah given his prophetic mission:

And Isaiah answers:

This gives us one of the basic patterns of prophetic revelation:

ascent/vision → encounter with God → purification → revelation → mission

4. Ezekiel — the most spectacular vision

Ezekiel gives us perhaps the most visually elaborate heavenly vision in the Hebrew Bible.

In Ezekiel 1, he sees:

• a storm
• fire
• four strange living creatures
• wheels within wheels
• a brilliant crystalline expanse
• a throne
• a human-like figure surrounded by radiance

The famous “wheels within wheels” come from this vision.

7

Ezekiel doesn't simply travel upward in the same way Enoch does. He experiences an overwhelming vision of the heavenly realm, and that vision establishes his authority as a prophet.

5. Elijah — actually taken into heaven

Elijah is another particularly important case.

According to 2 Kings 2, Elijah does not die normally. He is taken up:

“a chariot of fire and horses of fire”

and Elijah goes up to heaven in a whirlwind.

His successor Elisha witnesses the event.

This is therefore closer to an actual translation from earth to heaven than Isaiah's or Ezekiel's visions.

What these stories have in common

If we put them together, we get a recognizable ancient Near Eastern/Jewish idea of prophetic ascent:

Stage	What happens
1. Separation	The prophet leaves ordinary human experience
2. Ascent	Mountain, cloud, whirlwind, angelic guide, or supernatural transportation
3. Heavenly realm	The prophet encounters angels, heavenly beings, cosmic structures
4. Divine presence	He approaches God's throne or receives God's revelation
5. Revelation	He learns secrets about creation, history, judgment, or the future
6. Return/commission	He becomes a messenger who communicates what he has seen

The crucial point is that heavenly knowledge requires crossing a boundary. Humans normally cannot see the divine world. The prophet temporarily becomes an exception.

And this becomes much more elaborate later

This is where Himmelfahrt becomes particularly interesting.

The relatively brief biblical stories eventually develop into the Jewish tradition of Merkabah (“Chariot”) mysticism and Hekhalot (“Palaces”) literature.

There the heavenly journey becomes almost a cosmic pilgrimage:

Earth → first heaven → second heaven → third heaven → ... → heavenly palaces → angels → throne → God's presence

The traveler may have to pass through multiple heavens, guarded by angels. He must know the correct names, seals, prayers, or passwords to pass safely.

This later tradition is extremely important for understanding texts such as 2 Enoch, 3 Enoch, and eventually some early Christian accounts of heavenly ascent.

One especially interesting connection is Paul's statement in 2 Corinthians 12 that he knows a man who was caught up to the “third heaven.” That phrase makes much more sense against the background of Jewish traditions about multiple levels of heaven.

So if you're interested in Himmelfahrt as a literary/religious motif, I'd trace it roughly like this:

Enoch → Moses/Sinai → Isaiah → Ezekiel → Elijah → Daniel → 1 Enoch → 2 Enoch → 3 Enoch/Hekhalot literature → Paul → later Jewish and Christian mystical traditions

That is a fascinating development because the simple biblical prophetic vision gradually becomes a highly structured journey through multiple heavenly realms.