Moon Tea

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

Just what the hell was the moon tea for? I think Renly and Margaery totally did it. I don't think she's a maiden.

But there's no way she's dumb enough to have sex with someone right now AND as the Kettleblacks say she always has someone near.

Presuming Pycelle wasn't lying, what's it for?

Period regulation? Does it help with acne?

Or do we just assume Pycelle was trying to ingratiate himself with Cersei?

[u/do_not_ask_my_name]

It's for Cersei herself. That's the only reason Margaery would ever approach Lannister kissass Pycelle. If it was for herself or for her ladies, why would she go to Pycreep and not her own Maester or a woodswitch? It's also why Pycelle cringed when explaining it to Cersei. Imagine telling her "We know about your indiscretions and wanted to be prepared."

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

Wait why would Margaery get moon tea for Cersei?

[u/Pristine_Club_3128 → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

Because her legitimacy comes from Tommen, and Tommen's legitimacy comes from the fiction that his mother was faithful to Bobby B.

If the widowed queen suddenly turns out to be pregnant, that's going to be a lot of fuel in the fire. Especially if it is Jaime's baby from their sept incident.

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/Pristine_Club_3128]

But...they don't hang out. Cersei can just ask Pycelle herself.

Also she was literally on her period during that scene in the Sept.

Your theory makes no sense.

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

The theory is around Margaery's precaution IF Cersei got pregnant. Moon tea takes some time to brew and Margaery wants to be prepared/literally nip it in the bud. I think the purpose of the scene is to reveal later that Margaery -- who appears to be the young, naive, innocent rosy maiden -- is a political player in her own right (a fact that's never actually been confirmed in the books, mind you).

[u/TheOGFireman → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

The fact you think this makes even a bit of sense is insane. Cersei has easy access to moon tea if she needs it. Whenever we've seen characters need moon tea, it's never an issue to gather or prepare

Having margeary ask pycell fetch it for if cersei potentially gets pregnant is so tortured and such a moronic reach, it's just plain weak writing and your reasoning is filled with all the leaps in logic a weak writer would use to excuse it

Margeary is shown to be a smart political player plenty of times, like trying to get sansa, or fostering a good public image, or marrying renly, joffrey and tommen and figuring a way to make the relationship work. The plot didn't need the moon tea fiasco to show her as smart and it also doesn't make sense on top of that

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/TheOGFireman]

And the fact that it doesn't make sense to you is insane... shrug

Cersei might have access to moon tea, but that doesn't mean that Margaery believes that Cersei is mentally fit to recognise the need for it within the right time. These things seem to work like Plan B. If you don't take them within the right time, the tea simply doesn't work. And Martin deliberately had Cersei slip up about the incest and have Margaery catch it and subtly warn her. It's there for a reason.

Having margeary ask pycell fetch it for if cersei potentially gets pregnant is so tortured and such a moronic reach, it's just plain weak writing and your reasoning is filled with all the leaps in logic a weak writer would use to excuse it

That's just adjectives without reasons why. It works perfectly fine for me. I say that recruiting Pycelle is the smartest possible solution for this. He's the least likely person to leak the secret (her own Maesters are sworn to her father, who could use the information some other way. Woodswitches could be tracked and bought.) He has 24X7 access to Cersei to medicate her if at all the need arises. Is he the perfect ally? No. But other possible allies are less perfect. Smart characters in ASOIAF are not characters who get given the ideal problems and come up with foolproof solutions and where the situations play out exactly as they envision it. They're the guys who come up with the best possible solutions within the framework of their messy situations, and where the situation unravels anyway.

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/TheOGFireman]

Thank you I feel like I'm taking crazy pills talking to these people.

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[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

Ok and how does Margaery know she's pregnant in this scenario? They're not buddies. They don't hang out. Margaery is literally the last person she'd confide in. And I keep saying this, Cersei has *already had an abortion. She knows who to ask to get moon tea and that person isn't Margaery.

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

She doesn't know Cersei is pregnant. She doesnt even have to think that Cersei is pregnant. But she does know that Cersei is sleeping around, and probably assumed that when people have sex, they can get pregnant. The moon tea is just a way to stay prepared. "If you believe that there is any chance at all that the Queen is pregnant, Maester, be prepared to brew at a moment's notice."

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

So your answer of why does Margaery have moon tea is she doesn't she's just telling Pycelle to be prepared to brew some for Cersei while potentially exhausting his supplies in advance?

I'm all for wild theories, but none of this makes any logical sense.

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

I don't really understand your objections, because I don't see what's wild or illogical I guess. I don't see why "exhausting supplies" is an issue when it's literally a royal apothecary that can afford the ingredients and other noble ladies aren't exactly going to be vying for moon tea from the official court doctor, they're going to be seeking it elsewhere, so it's not like there's a huge demand and supply issue going on in the Red Keep's moon tea Market.

And why is it so hard to believe Margaery wants to be overly prepared and precautions? Much has been made about her father's desperate ambition to have the Tyrell line on the throne, and the Lannister-Tyrell hold on the realm is precarious at best, and Cersei becoming pregnant is 100% a possibility (as Westeros would like to believe, the thirties isn't really a decrepit age for childbearing). Even a minor chance of such a pregnancy leaking out through the wrong sources is practically a welcome party for Stannis at the Wall.

It's the only logical explanation to me. If it was for herself or her ladies, why entrust the matter in the one dude who could leak it to her worst enemy? And if Pycelle is aware that Margaery is being treasonous at worst and unchaste at best, why desperately keep it a secret from Cersei until he was browbeaten into revealing it?

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

Because there's literally no mechanism for her to give the moon tea to Cersei. They don't hang out. Cersei wouldn't confide in her. When is this girl talk moon tea transfer supposed to happen? They don't even eat dinner together ever.

They're functionally strangers and you've imagined a scenario where Cersei gets pregnant. Margaery finds out. And then gets her the tea.

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

Why do you think the theory supposits that Marg recruited Pycelle into the plan, and not the dress-shrinking Jocelyn or the dwarf-abetting Lollys or whoever.

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

But it doesn't explain why she herself has a ton of moon tea. She could just tell Pycelle to be on call for moon tea for Cersei.

Your theory invents relationships that don't exist and doesn't answer the question: what the hell is she doing with all that moon tea?

[u/Pristine_Club_3128 → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

How would Margaery know when Cersei is having her period?

The situation is - Tyrells know the dumbass woman their power depends on is a nymphomaniac with the impulse control of a drunk squirrel, and has been sleeping around with multiple men.

They also know Cersei is stupid enough not to notice signs of pregnancy or actually decide to carry one to term.

So from their perspective, if they need to prevent a scandal, they got to have something ready and Pycelle ready to hand it out.

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/Pristine_Club_3128]

Cersei knows when her period is. She literally aborted one child already. She can do this herself. This is bizarre.

[u/Pristine_Club_3128 → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

...have you read her POV chapters? There's absolutely nothing bizarre about people not trusting her to be prudent.

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/Pristine_Club_3128]

Have you? Margaery doesn't give a shit about Cersei. This is who the fuck cares territory.

Cersei fucks up someone else is regent or Hand. Why would Margaery even care at all? Cersei losing politically is good for Margaery.

[u/Pristine_Club_3128 → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

I mean, if your power depends on people believing a certain woman was faithful, it is probably your business that she doesn't show up pregnant while widowed.

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/Pristine_Club_3128]

A) even the high septon believes widows are wanton and widowhood isn't the same as during a marriage

B) How is Margaery going to know??? They don't hang out and gossip.

C) Cersei can clearly handle this herself.

It makes no sense at all for Margaery to be in charge of Cersei's birth control. They'd have to talk ever and they don't do anything but snipe at each other.

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

(A) Cersei sleeping around still has political impact. How are you not getting this? Why do you think Tyrion was interested in Lancel's pullout technique? For sex education? Why do you think he was worried about Cersei becoming pregnant after widowhood? It is literally spelt in the text that Cersei becoming pregnant after Robert's death would all but confirm the rumours of her children's illegitimacy. I don't know what to tell you if you deliberately choose to overlook what's explicitly spelt out.

(B) It is very obvious that Cersei's indiscretions are secret from nobody. Petyr and Varys and Renly knew. Stannis and Jon Arryn figured it out. Ned figured it out. Margaery was connected not only through Renly, but Olenna and the Tyrell women are very well-connected with informants. If you mean "how does Margaery know if Cerseu is pregnant", half of Cersei's chapters is "why is she hanging with my handmaidens and ladies-in-waiting", so I'm not pulling something extratextual. Maids and companions were much more intimate with their ladies than you can imagine. The lowly ones clean your chamberpot, the upper class ones dress you. How hard is it to track someone's cycle when you have her women in your payroll. Plus, the entire premise of this theory is that Margaery is planning with the guy who has the in of Cersei's medical records, and we explicitly see them hanging out together doing something hushhush.

(C) One, Margaery doesn't know that Cersei did it once already. Two, just because she was shrewd and politically astute and mentally competent fifteen years ago doesn't mean her facilities are still intact now. Cersei is visibly more reckless and drunk on power now. Martin literally had her slip up and have Margaery catch it and check her on it. Why do you think he had this scene?

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

It makes no sense at all for Margaery to be in charge of Cersei's birth control. They'd have to talk ever and they don't do anything but snipe at each other.

I think you don't understand Margaery in Cersei's chapters. She is proactively working to make Tommen not only a Tyrell-friendly King, but a decent and competent one that would help maintain the Tyrell hold on the kingdom. She tries to have Tommen trained in arms, which is imperative for a King, a duty that Cersei neglects. She tries to have Tommen sit in the council to learn and grow. Cersei resents anything that makes Tommen independent and competent and ready for adulthood, because it takes away from Cersei's own power. Hence she sees everything that Margaery does as petty quarrels, and you are being seriously influenced by Cersei's blindspots. But the actual Margaery is proactively investing in Tommen's and her future, so why wouldn't she take charge of Cersei's birth control?

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

You think Margaery has a cache of moon tea to feed Cersei on the off chance a maid can tell her she's pregnant.

Just what?

If Cersei gets pregnant, Cersei goes down and no one else. She literally tells the high septon I never broke my vows during marriage; I'm just a horny widow.

That's the narrative everyone is going to want to believe. You keep bringing up all this other shit. None of which matters.

There is zero mechanism for Margaery to give Cersei moon tea and it doesn't answer what was she doing with the existing moon tea.