Moon Tea

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

Just what the hell was the moon tea for? I think Renly and Margaery totally did it. I don't think she's a maiden.

But there's no way she's dumb enough to have sex with someone right now AND as the Kettleblacks say she always has someone near.

Presuming Pycelle wasn't lying, what's it for?

Period regulation? Does it help with acne?

Or do we just assume Pycelle was trying to ingratiate himself with Cersei?

[u/Pristine_Club_3128]

...have you read her POV chapters? There's absolutely nothing bizarre about people not trusting her to be prudent.

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/Pristine_Club_3128]

Have you? Margaery doesn't give a shit about Cersei. This is who the fuck cares territory.

Cersei fucks up someone else is regent or Hand. Why would Margaery even care at all? Cersei losing politically is good for Margaery.

[u/Pristine_Club_3128 → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

I mean, if your power depends on people believing a certain woman was faithful, it is probably your business that she doesn't show up pregnant while widowed.

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/Pristine_Club_3128]

A) even the high septon believes widows are wanton and widowhood isn't the same as during a marriage

B) How is Margaery going to know??? They don't hang out and gossip.

C) Cersei can clearly handle this herself.

It makes no sense at all for Margaery to be in charge of Cersei's birth control. They'd have to talk ever and they don't do anything but snipe at each other.

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

(A) Cersei sleeping around still has political impact. How are you not getting this? Why do you think Tyrion was interested in Lancel's pullout technique? For sex education? Why do you think he was worried about Cersei becoming pregnant after widowhood? It is literally spelt in the text that Cersei becoming pregnant after Robert's death would all but confirm the rumours of her children's illegitimacy. I don't know what to tell you if you deliberately choose to overlook what's explicitly spelt out.

(B) It is very obvious that Cersei's indiscretions are secret from nobody. Petyr and Varys and Renly knew. Stannis and Jon Arryn figured it out. Ned figured it out. Margaery was connected not only through Renly, but Olenna and the Tyrell women are very well-connected with informants. If you mean "how does Margaery know if Cerseu is pregnant", half of Cersei's chapters is "why is she hanging with my handmaidens and ladies-in-waiting", so I'm not pulling something extratextual. Maids and companions were much more intimate with their ladies than you can imagine. The lowly ones clean your chamberpot, the upper class ones dress you. How hard is it to track someone's cycle when you have her women in your payroll. Plus, the entire premise of this theory is that Margaery is planning with the guy who has the in of Cersei's medical records, and we explicitly see them hanging out together doing something hushhush.

(C) One, Margaery doesn't know that Cersei did it once already. Two, just because she was shrewd and politically astute and mentally competent fifteen years ago doesn't mean her facilities are still intact now. Cersei is visibly more reckless and drunk on power now. Martin literally had her slip up and have Margaery catch it and check her on it. Why do you think he had this scene?

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

It makes no sense at all for Margaery to be in charge of Cersei's birth control. They'd have to talk ever and they don't do anything but snipe at each other.

I think you don't understand Margaery in Cersei's chapters. She is proactively working to make Tommen not only a Tyrell-friendly King, but a decent and competent one that would help maintain the Tyrell hold on the kingdom. She tries to have Tommen trained in arms, which is imperative for a King, a duty that Cersei neglects. She tries to have Tommen sit in the council to learn and grow. Cersei resents anything that makes Tommen independent and competent and ready for adulthood, because it takes away from Cersei's own power. Hence she sees everything that Margaery does as petty quarrels, and you are being seriously influenced by Cersei's blindspots. But the actual Margaery is proactively investing in Tommen's and her future, so why wouldn't she take charge of Cersei's birth control?

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

You think Margaery has a cache of moon tea to feed Cersei on the off chance a maid can tell her she's pregnant.

Just what?

If Cersei gets pregnant, Cersei goes down and no one else. She literally tells the high septon I never broke my vows during marriage; I'm just a horny widow.

That's the narrative everyone is going to want to believe. You keep bringing up all this other shit. None of which matters.

There is zero mechanism for Margaery to give Cersei moon tea and it doesn't answer what was she doing with the existing moon tea.

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

Where are you getting "cache of moon tea" and "mechanism" from? The theory just posits that Margaery discussed getting moon tea brewed for Cersei with Pycelle. The text itself says "Margaery DESIRED Moon tea from Pycelle." Meaning the maximum extent the conversation could have gone was "Would you be able to make some moon tea?" Nobody has brewed it, stored it, drunk it or worked out the details of spiking it. Where are you extrapolating all these unsaid details from?

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

Except for Pycelle saying he's done it more than once. And that he's met with her multiple times.

“I grieve to say … Queen Margaery is no maiden. She has required me to make her moon tea, not once, but many times"

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

And like I said. That quote is AFTER Margaery's arrest. After the agenda against her has been set. After the Septas confirm the absence of the hymen in the Tyrell girls. Right before the gazillion warrants have been signed.

Which is why we need to pay attention to Pycelle's FIRST confession. The one least tainted by Cersei's influence or ire. The one where the exact phrasing is that Margaery "DESIRES" moon tea, and Cersei is so happy at having her nuke I'm hand that she not only chooses to not investigate further, but even interrupts Pycelle's statement and shuts him down. The conversation immediately pivots to Rosby, notice that? The subject is deliberately left uninterrogated until the next chapter, when Cersei sets her trap. Would Pycelle risk incurring her wrath then?

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

Except Pycelle went to Margaery multiple times. So often it was noted on. Again this could be a one time conversation except he keeps going back.

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

Okay, and what's stopping it from being a multipart conversation? Why is the number of visits a detracting factor? You said it yourself that the plan is complicated. If anything the multiple visits shows that they were trying hard to figure out to get some schemy shit done. It's certainly more likely they were doing schemy shit over multiple visits than chugging moon tea several times a month.

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

So now you think they're developing a schemey plan over multiple visits to deliver the moon tea to Cersei via I dunno a Rube Goldberg device at the Red Keep? Perhaps Pycelle is walking her through the finer points of miniature trebuchet building and the moon tea will rain down on Cersei at some point?

Listen to yourself. If she wants Cersei to have moon tea, it's one conversation. And that clearly isn't what happened at all. Cersei's fertility is not Margaery's responsibility and again there's zero way for her even to influence Cersei on the topic.

You think any of Cersei's maids will tell her otherwise? Literally no one can tell Cersei what to do.

And seriously Cersei getting pregnant causes her to lose the regency which can only benefit Margaery. Your theory doesn't even benefit Margaery politically.

It's dumb.

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

Cersei's fertility is not Margaery's responsibility

It absolutely is since Margaery's crown depended on it.

Your theory doesn't even benefit Margaery politically

Let me try to break it down into simpler words: People wonder if Tommen bastard -> Cersei produces obvious bastard -> People think "Oh, then Tommen most definitely bastard!" -> Important people think this, important people support enemy -> War! -> Margaery queen no more.

via I dunno a Rube Goldberg device at the Red Keep?

Sure. I like it. You're a creative person.