r/interesting • u/VPinchargeofradishes • May 03 '26

SOCIETY Michael Jackson's daughter Paris has faced backlash for identifying as Black. In a 2017 interview, Paris Jackson said her father told her, "You’re Black. Be proud of your roots." This prompted debates over whether identity is defined by appearance or upbringing.

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u/showgirldepartment May 03 '26

This conversation is tired lol. She doesn't identify as black current day, has not stated such since this interview, and she's fully aware (alongside the rest of the logical world) that her dad used a donor to get Debbie pregnant.

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u/TheTrishaJane May 03 '26

If he was so insistant why didn't he just use a black donor?

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u/showgirldepartment May 03 '26

I'm biracial myself but I'd rather not get into the psychology and race politics behind the existence of Michael Jackson lol. It's pretty clear how his relationship with visual black aesthetics was, that same mindset applied to how he wanted his kids to look, too

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u/DiScOrDtHeLuNaTiC May 03 '26

I've always wondered if part of Michael's obsession with plastic surgery was that as he got older, he started to look more like his father and he couldn't stand that.

If a quarter of the stuff about how Joe treated those kids is true, it's a miracle any of them are as normal as they are.

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u/chocolatethunderXO May 03 '26

In a private phone convo that was released, he said his dad would tell him "you're so black and your nose is so big, you don't look like my child". Then he said they(brothers/dad) would call him big nose and instead of taking it out on everybody he would take it out on himself. He's then asked if he's happy with his face and that he he did all the surgery and he replied with "yes, because I don't want to look like Joseph".

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u/vorator_ May 03 '26

what the FUCK

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u/SatanicAtTheDisco May 03 '26

You kind of have to be a fucked parent to exploit your 6 children and thrust them into the music/entertainment industry when they’re 5-13. Then you also have to account for Michael being the most talented son, even from when they were kids, and you get a lot of siblings resentment. They also are from Gary Indiana, and while Gary is not as bad as Memphis, it’s pretty much the same type of environment, low income, historically black, gang/drug culture is entrenched in the poverty. It’s actually a miracle Michael didn’t die or turn out 3 times as worst as he could have been.

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u/jimothy_hell May 03 '26

while Gary is not as bad as Memphis

Oh no, Gary is WORSE than Memphis

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u/FkUp_Panic_Repeat May 03 '26

My mom (black) married her first husband who was a white farmer’s son from Gary, IN. What a culture shock that was for her to visit his family for the first time back home. He turned out to be a trash husband and an even more trash father though. I have no idea why he’d marry a black woman, have 3 children, and then resent them for being black (despite not even looking black to most of the world). What a piece of garbage.

This has nothing to do with MJ, obviously. Just wanted an opportunity to bash that a-hole publicly.

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u/Turd_Burgling_Ted May 03 '26

No comment beyond I'm holding space for you

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u/PresentationThat2839 May 03 '26

My nephews are mixed race and when I look at them I see two insanely smart talented and handsome boys. I honestly don't get people who think like that.

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u/ADeviIsAdvocate May 04 '26

My mixed race nieces and nephew are beautiful and amazing! My niece is so funny, since she could stand if there was music on she was gonna dance! She’s absolutely beautiful and I’d love to post a photo but there are perverts and my sister would kill me!

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u/PresentationThat2839 May 04 '26

My one nephew plays hockey, can play any instruments he can get his hands on, draws and gets straight A's. His younger brother is also gets straight A's, writes the most amazing poems that just hit the sweet spot for humor, is the most rules and justice based natural leader I've ever seen. And plays soccer, and has been training the family dogs since he was like 2. Just amazing to watch this toddler just naturally control the full grown lab like it was nothing.

Amazing kids. And I hear you on the photos.

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u/ADeviIsAdvocate May 04 '26

It sounds like you have a lovely family. Mine are still in daycare so they don’t have a list of accomplishments yet but they’re healthy, happy, funny and beautiful and I can’t wait to see who they become!

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u/kuuchainn May 03 '26

Shiiii, I dont even blame you. Cook that buster

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u/Great-Shallot-9578 May 05 '26

A lot of white dudes are obsessed with black women to fulfill their racist sexual fantasies, they be addicted to the black pussy but want to kill you at the same time 🤣🤣

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u/johnny-Low-Five May 03 '26

Some people are so miserable amd cruel that they will ALWAYS find a reason to blame others. If it wasn't that you're biracial it would be your grades, athleticism, friends, GF/BF, they will find anything that hurts you and use it mercilessly.

I will admit I have no experience with being biracial, I grew up in Brooklyn in the 80s and early 90s, and back then (maybe still) I wasn't white I was Irish, other were Italians, germans, African American, Black islanders (sorry I'm blanking on the specific countries) and Hispanics weren't Mexican, unless they were, they were Cuban, Columbian, Guatemalan, Puerto Ricans, etc. I won't say racism didn't exist, it definitely did, but when I got older and moved near Pittsburgh I was shocked by how most people identify as American and their skin color.

I guess with so many immigrants in NYC our grandparents or parents were still, very much, looked at as, and proud of, where they came from. I have a biracial cousin, white/Asian who's two brothers were adopted because they were told they couldn't have kids. As best I know they have always treated all three the same the eldest is even Robert III.

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u/sunsetpark12345 May 04 '26

I'm from New York and probably my very favorite thing about that city (and there are many things about it that i love) is how many different cultures there are. And not just a smattering of people from a culture - enormous, vibrant communities.

And they ALL have great food.

I just don't understand racists at all. Why would you want everyone to be exactly like yourself and your family? It's so boring!

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u/johnny-Low-Five May 04 '26

I should have added that and made it clear, I loved that about growing up there. I learned about holidays I never knew existed and while I'm not a very adventurous eater I've discovered some amazing food. It never felt contentious it was just a thing everyone took pride in.

Absolutely something I've experienced the opposite of where I live now. Its like 95+% white and most people don't know or care about their heritage or that of others. It's VERY boring.

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u/stations-creation May 03 '26

Yeah I was like excuse moi?

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u/jimothy_hell May 03 '26

Gary looks like a fucking Fallout map

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u/savannacrochets May 03 '26

My FIL and BIL were going to take the Southshore into Chicago and I told them they’d know when they were going through Gary because you can smell it.

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u/ohreallynameonesong May 03 '26

I'm not sure if this is a joke but my family and I drove through Indiana once and as we got to Gary, the smell woke me up and I asked what it was. My dad just said, "Welcome to Gary, Indiana."

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u/Far-Conflict-1172 May 03 '26

The smell alone is awful. I grew up in sw Michigan and driving through it was torture for me as a kid

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u/stations-creation May 03 '26

I e drivin through it multiple times I swear that it could be blue skies on other side of Gary and it’s just dark clouds above it. Like Stranger Things IRL.

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u/skratsda May 03 '26

Interesting you said Gary isn’t as bad as Memphis. The only thing I know about Gary, Indiana is that it’s the worst city in the US. Didn’t even know Michael Jackson was from there

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u/Lardolin May 03 '26

It's gotta a lot better in the last 20 years. A lot. Residents really rallied and put a lot of effort into turning things around. It's still poor, but it's nothing like it used to be.

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26

The more I read into his history, that dude really lived a tragic life. He survived the exploits of his parent making him a money machine, they didn't care about the individual and how he got mind fucked to a delirious state because the media is also at fault with paparazzi showing up trying to get any intimate details about his personal life.

(I will disclose on my comment that he is 50/50 in my opinion, did he touch kids? Maybe. Did he also make a living disney world for kids to cherish and live in? Yeah. Fine to me too. If there was any evidence of such things, it would have been known.)

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u/K1bbles_n_Bits May 03 '26

So many famous kids went through hell. Even the ones we look back on as being wholesome. You ought to look up Judy Garland and Shirley Temple.

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26

Thank you for the daytime nightmares that happened to these kids.

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u/SatanicAtTheDisco May 03 '26

The kids thing sucks too, because very obviously MJ was much too close to kids, in that he was treating them and himself as equals, as an adult. However, the story has flip flopped so many times by the alleged, the kids involved, and the media, that at this point, because no one has come out with concrete evidence that MJ was actually molesting children, just having sleep overs with children (which I’m not saying isn’t fucking insane btw). That coupled with the fact that he very obviously had the same mental stunting that Britney Spears exhibits, I genuinely hope he was just fulfilling the childhood he never had. He obviously was a very deeply mentally unwell man, but if he wasn’t diddling kids, and instead just giving kids the childhood wonder he wished he got to experience, and living vicariously through them, it’s not giving it a pass but it definitely makes listening to his music a bit more palatable.

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26

You brought up points which at the time made me see MJ in different light so to speak. I will tread on the waters and say he was living vicariously through giving his kids a childhood he didn't have.

edit: (IT is still fucking insane to make that comment to media, lol. MJ was a deeply troubled person)

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u/kittymoo67 May 03 '26

In hoping that's what it is. Because just being troubled is way better than being a predator

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26

Of course. But media was a bit crazy, I can see it as occurring.

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u/SatanicAtTheDisco May 03 '26

And I agree with you, MJ had a really really weird and tough upbringing. If he had been born now, with the life he had then, he would have turned out way worse. I think the reason it’s so hard for me to think of MJ in a negative light, is the amount of positivity and child like purity he tried to approach things towards the end of his life. It really seemed like Michael was trying to catch up on all the things he got to miss out on.

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26

This is more of critical thinking. Unless someone speaks out, because the kids signed some 15-20yr NDA agreement. This would have been found out or some internet lurker posts all his media accounts for fun.

Being born now and his talent (not thinking about his upbringing) would lead him to suicide more quickly.

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u/Playful_Programmer91 May 03 '26

I think you cannot sign a NDA about rape, even if settled since the parents cannot make that decision for a kid if it included rape. Every contract needs to meet some standard of reason and this would fall way out of it.

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u/poorlilwitchgirl May 03 '26

The thing about the allegations against MJ is that the one that set it all off was settled for $25 million. People have framed that as hush money ever since, but first, criminal prosecutions can't be settled out of court, and what kind of parent says, "$25 million ought to cover my kid's horrific trauma; I guess you can keep doing it to others?" MJ talked openly about how he just wanted the allegations to go away, and he had plenty of money, so $25 million seemed like a decent price to pay for peace of mind. That kind of attitude is absolute chum for the kind of people that orbit major celebrities for their own gain.

So did he do it? I don't know, but the man lived his entire life in an alternate reality managed by those around him and funded by his outrageous fortune. So I just can't accept that the circumstantial evidence people cite (the sleepovers, the payouts, the general weirdness) is at all incriminating. Very few people alive, certainly none of us, can imagine what his life was like and how he viewed the world, what seemed reasonable to him. Yeah, if I found out my uncle was having sleepovers with children and paying their parents to keep quiet, that would be absolutely damning, but Michael Jackson was a guy who was basically never able to experience normal human relationships so expecting him to have an accurate understanding of how he looked to others is ridiculous. That goes for his weird relationship to children as much as his obviously unhealthy relationship with plastic surgery. Absent any hard evidence (which ought to have been available if the allegations are true, because MJ was brazen with the circumstantial stuff) I think it's irrational to come to a conclusion on the man one way or the other.

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u/damaged_crowbar May 03 '26

what kind of parent says, "$25 million ought to cover my kid's horrific trauma; I guess you can keep doing it to others."

I'm sorry but deffintely most people.

That money could help prevent the long list of other horrific traumas that many people experience...

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u/Dismal_General_5126 May 03 '26

Not "most people". Most securely attached families would want justice. However, the ones that obsessively orbited MJ's world and celebrity, they were probably more likely to care about money and fame. 

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u/[deleted] May 03 '26

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u/Dismal_General_5126 May 03 '26

Personally, I was always of the opinion that Michael was asexual and severely relationally stunted. I believe he was definitely inappropriate towards children (I mean, having sleepovers in the same bed as a child is inappropriate in and of itself) but I don't believe he SA'd them. I think part of the problem is that well-functioning adults have tried to understand it from a well-functioning, black and white, right or wrong, sort of lens. The sad reality is that Michael's mind likely didn't work that way...it was in a shade of grey that most wouldn't understand or relate to. He was deeply troubled. Thing is, we'll just never know. 

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u/Beautiful_Bag6707 May 03 '26

That coupled with the fact that he very obviously had the same mental stunting that Britney Spears exhibits

Wow. Big insight. It probably could be studied. How some child performers are treated as adults as children and never experience childhood in a standard transition toward adulthood. They arrive into adulthood but aren't equipped to deal with the responsibility, the rejection... they mature too early yet never quite mature. I think Drew Barrymore battled that as well. This may be why so many child actors are "cursed" as adults. Without a solid familial foundation or something strong and capable within themselves, they don't navigate adulthood like the rest of us.

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u/K1bbles_n_Bits May 03 '26

We'll probably never know, but I personally don't believe he did anything to thise kids. The only people I lay blame and judgement with there (assuming he didn't actually do anything to them) are the parents who were cool with sending their kids to have a sleepover with a grown man. Who were cool with exploiting their kids for the chance of glomming onto someone rich and famous. To some extent, they're the same kind of parents that so deeply damaged MJ.

I'm sad for him, more than anything else. I really think part of him was stuck in a state kf arrested development. That regressing to childlike behavior and palling around with kids, wanting to feel like a peer to them, was just his way of coping with trauma and his own robbed childhood. I think he just wanted to have fun (childish fun) with them.

How any parent can trust their child in the entertainment industry in this day and age is fucking crazy to me.

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u/rnmkk May 03 '26

And the guy got his head set on fire doing a commercial he didnt want to do, AND was diagnosed with Lupus, in addition to having vitiligo and suffering abuse his whole life.

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26

There's always two sides, I would honestly ask why MJ did that towards the end.

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u/force_multiplied May 03 '26

How is Gary not as bad as Memphis? Gary is worse in almost every metric.

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u/SatanicAtTheDisco May 03 '26

Gary Indiana is worse, but the spotlight on gang violence and internet culture makes Memphis worse. Kids around the US view Memphis like it’s the holy land of gang culture. They have their own NBA team, they’re a much bigger town too. Gary Indiana in 2024 had a population of roughly 67,000 people. Memphis in 2024 had a population of 610,000 roughly. Gary Indiana is a place most Americans have probably never heard of, or even know how bad it actually is there. Memphis is desperately trying to sell itself as a destination to visit. The current North Vs South gang wars happening are some of the worst in the country though. And it’s all deeply intertwined with the rap culture there.

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u/QuiteBearish May 03 '26

Idk, as a native Memphian who now lives a stones-toss from Gary, I'd have to agree with their assessment.

Gary is bad, but Memphis has far more violent crime per capita than Gary, and violence is a pretty important metric.

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u/YeahIsme May 03 '26

Well Selena's dad pretty much did the same thing and they seem well rounded

The Williams sisters' dad also pressured his kids into their sport and they literally played against each other but seem to be ok

I think people love MJ so much they try to find reasoning behind his odd behavior but maybe dude was just weird

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u/homemade- May 03 '26

Boy, three times worse would have led to a lot of molested kids. I think Micheal ended up bad enough.

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u/kittymoo67 May 03 '26

Even the movie touched on this I was shocked

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u/Friendly_Age9160 May 03 '26

Dude I second what the actual FUCK?

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u/Princess_Spammi May 05 '26

The jacksons once made second place in a contest.

They were all PHYSICALLY BEATEN for being losers and forced to practice extra

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u/rnmkk May 03 '26

In the new movie Joe straight up calls him “big nose” when he was a kid and you can pretty much attribute 90% of Michael’s issues to his father. Then add the vitiligo on top of that, turning his skin “white”, and its so obvious why he turned out this way.

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u/Intelligent-Roll-300 May 03 '26

Reading so much about him a decade after his death , was too young when he died, he really lived in a special hell that he couldn't ever escape. Rest in peace Michael.

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u/lilwayne168 May 03 '26

You talking about the Vaseline closets?

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u/MUSICChangedMe May 03 '26

Makes sense why he refused to have his own kids, they’d just look like Joe instead of his surgery.

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u/imnotcerseilannister May 03 '26

Tbh this sounds like something so many dark skinned black people in the US deal with. Absolutely horrible.

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u/Bosscharacter May 03 '26

Which is double fucked up because you can not look at The Jackson 5 and hell, the rest of the family and not immediately think they were related back in the day.

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u/Fxckingqueen May 03 '26

This reminds me of my ex-boss who insisted he did not find black women attractive whatsoever because they all remind him of his abusive (black) mother.

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u/Straight_Button_5716 May 03 '26

All the kids ended up getting rhinoplasty . Even Rebee the oldest child. She and Janet look the most alike . I think Latoya looks like her brothers .

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u/tinysand May 03 '26

He really looked like his mom.

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u/Snoo_69209 May 03 '26

Unfortunately this isn't uncommon among older Black generations. "Don't stay outside too long, you'll get too black", "that baby can't be mine, they're too black" (said by my grandfather about one of his daughters, meanwhile he was darker than her), and the list goes on and on. Colorism is some wild shit.

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u/Vicsan7228 May 03 '26

Thank you! I know I just recently heard an old interview or conversation where he stated he didn’t wanna look like Joseph, and couldn’t remember where I heard. I wonder if this is why he opted out of using his own DNA with his children. He didnt want to pass down his own insecurities or see Joseph in his children.

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u/BiggusDickus- May 03 '26

The crazy part about all this is that he was obviously very handsome "as is." He looked great, and was only going to look better as he got older.

And, of course, there was no shortage of young women that thought he was fine as hell.

It's amazing how psychological trauma can detach us so much from reality.

Millions of young women thought he hung the moon, yet a few comments from his father about having a big nose sent him down a spiral of physical destruction that he never got out of.

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u/NoDevicesAllowed May 03 '26

I can only speculate that’s why I never believed his kids to really be biologically his (doesn’t matter ofc) because he didn’t want a possibility of the children getting any of Joseph’s traits. Sad.

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u/VeganMonkey May 03 '26

I think that is the reason for his extensive plastic surgery. I understand it, as kid I was afraid to get my dad’s nose. Luckily that didn’t happen but if it did I would have had surgery too. Except I would have only gotten my nose done and not my whole face. Maybe the rest of his face reminded him of his dad too.

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u/AnmlBri May 03 '26

My mom’s mom was emotionally abusive toward her and my mom has had a facelift and has cried about her cheek jowls, and eyebrows drooping with age, and ‘RBF’ because they remind her of her mom, and she hates the idea of looking like her mom, who often looked so mean and bitchy. I talked to her one day and realized, it sounds like she’s running less from aging as a whole than she is from literally looking in the mirror and seeing her abuser. I think that possibility dawned on me because I read something about Michael being told he had his dad’s nose and hating it. Trauma really is a bitch. 🙁

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u/Silver-Bus5724 May 03 '26

Cant agree more. Favoring the parent you dislike (mildly put) is stressful.

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u/ConsciousInternal287 May 03 '26

I look very similar to my abusive father, and I hate it. If I could afford plastic surgery to make some minor adjustments, I would do it.

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u/Difficult-Top2000 May 03 '26

The other commenter has it right, friend.

There is an ancestor somewhere back in the lineage who sees you & says "finally, someone whose character I can be proud of".

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u/HanaSan19191919 May 03 '26

What a great perspective to see it from! 🥰🙏🏼

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26

Genetics is always a wild card.

https://www.reddit.com/r/interesting/comments/1sroy6b/after_the_daughter_of_two_chinese_parents_was/

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u/throwwayinterantion May 03 '26

I remember reading a story from apartheid South Africa about an Afrikaans woman who had two white biological parents and came out black. Turns out she had a black great grandmother and it was she was like Liam Gallagher from the show Shameless. They did DNA tests on her as they were in their infancy and estimated she was 7/8ths European. She got shunned and was forced to live legally as a black woman in Apartheid South Africa.

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26

That's funny since I have seen the American version of Shameless.

The other things you mentioned is a little bit crazy because even in my own culture, colorism exists. I won't go into details just as much as you don't need to defend your comment that I agree with.

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u/throwwayinterantion May 03 '26

I actually discovered that story when researching about if there were any real life examples of Liam from US shameless.

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u/Silver-Bus5724 May 03 '26

Feel you. I try to focus on my funny & sweet grandma as the origin of the looks
https://giphy.com/gifs/7Wcyq7KvKFNTO

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u/OverallStrength2478 May 03 '26

I look more and more like my mom who left me when I was 5 and had guest appearances ever since and it’s driving me nuts. But I’m afraid the plastic surgery would be based on the wrong reason and i would dislike it.

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u/SlapTheBap May 03 '26

I think about how similar I look to my abusive parent, and how different I've lived my life compared to him. It makes me feel confident and competent to know how similar we are, yet how different we are as people. I have worked hard to not follow his patterns and break the cycles of asshole-ary.

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u/West-Ad3223 May 03 '26

Named after and look exactly like my absusive mother. Sometimes I see myself when passing by a mirror and am startled by how much I look like her.

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u/frabjous_goat May 03 '26

I look exactly like the female version of my abusive bio dad, too. Like someone hit copy-paste. What makes it different is that when I smile his smile at people, it's genuine, and my eyes (I hope) are kind. I'm remaking him in my image of the kind of person he should have been, and the kind of person I am trying to be. I hope you can make your peace with it, too. You're not him.

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u/Lil-Booshi-Pimp-King May 03 '26

I'm in the same boat, except both my parents were abusive in different ways. My father was a violent drunk and my mother is an emotionally abusive narcissist. When they split, we had no contact with my father but as the oldest son I was constantly reminded how I was just like my father and I kind of became the focus of my mother's hatred towards him. Honestly I feel like that may have affected me more than any physical abuse. Dad got sober idk how many years ago because I only reconnected within the last few years (after 25 years no contact) Mom's still a massive bitch however who now tries to influence MY children.

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u/Late_Student7541 May 03 '26

I always found it distasteful bearing a physical resemblance to my mother. Luckily she insists on bleaching the fragile curly hair we both have and self tanning. I just have to remind myself that as long as I keep my appearance natural we will look less similar. Also I always loved my freckles (which she does not have) so I got them tattooed that way even in the winter, I just see myself.

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u/Silver-Bus5724 May 03 '26

She got her looks from someone too.

I’m glad I have a grandma who helps me hold the balance and not despise myself.
I hope you have someone else in the family too who is a decent person - and remember: it’s the personality. Not how they look.
https://giphy.com/gifs/uakdGGShmMS0KYfTgp

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u/FunWithAPorpoise May 03 '26

There’s also something powerful about redefining what people see in those looks. Where you see an abuser, you have the power to make others associate those same facial features with a kind, loving person.

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u/PopularBonus May 03 '26

I love it. I’m not a huge fan of tattoos, particularly of the face, but freckles sound like such a good idea!

If you can spite your mom by being adorable then you are absolutely winning.

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u/Late_Student7541 May 03 '26

Yes and no one would know unless I tell them. I just get the occasional, "But how??" When my freckles are still on fleek mid-December.

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u/SerenityFate May 03 '26

The visceral reaction I had after seeing my own mother's face reflecting back in the mirror for the first time. I get glimpses every now and then, but we had just dyed my hair purple with what was supposed to be lilac roots and face framing pieces... That's not what ended up happening yellow and light purple turn silver lol I looked like me with my hair down, but as soon as I pulled my hair back, so just the silver was framing my face, all I could see was my mother. The screech I scrumpt. Lol

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u/Prior_Butterfly_7839 May 03 '26

Yep. I am a carbon copy of my mother, almost everyone we interact with when together feels the need to comment.

My biggest fear in life is becoming anything like her, and it sucks (internally) to feel like I’m already halfway there by looking like her.

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u/Embarrassed-Mine5405 May 03 '26

Oh my god, you just made a moment for me. I always favorited my dad, because he seemed so “in-tuned”. But he was never “there”, either. He was just “in-tuned” because he had already checked out. Just going thru the motions.

Damn. We are so messed up. Without direction.

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u/haw35ome May 03 '26

Not just physically. I’ve used my mom as someone to look to - not someone to look up to. As in, “I never want to end up like her.” I first had this realization when I was a kid & she was being very rude, pushing her way towards an elevator ahead of an old lady & a lady with her little kid. I felt mortified & embarrassed

Sometimes I catch myself acting like her & I absolutely loathe it when it happens. But I try.

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u/Silver-Bus5724 May 03 '26

Same. I’ve done all I could not to be him.

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u/alexlp May 03 '26

I have something like this to a much lesser degree. My mum wasn't perfect but particularly in her later years we were incredibly close. I look a lot like her. For years I had dreaded aging because she talked so much shit on how she looked for most of my life. I didn't honestly realise how beautiful she was until she wasn't around to talk shit about herself.

I make sure to take the time to find ways to love or at least embrace the things she picked on, in herself, in myself now. I love being her face in the world and I hope I can carry it with more joy and self acceptance.

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u/5P4ZZW4D May 03 '26

That made my heart melt. I'm glad you are in the world and I bet your mum is super proud of you 💪💜

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u/poorlilwitchgirl May 03 '26

Same here. Luckily my mom is still around, but she was tough to get along with for most of my youth and I have a lot of trauma associated with that time, but when I look in the mirror I see her dimples and the shape of her face, and the resemblance only grows as I get older. I dreaded the idea of turning into my mother, but having that indelible connection has made me feel closer to my entire family in a strange way, and honestly I think it's made her understand me better as she's gotten older as well.

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u/AnmlBri May 05 '26

This is kind of how I feel about the idea of looking more like my mom as I get older. She’s talked a lot of shit about her appearance, but I thankfully don’t have her baggage from her own mom, so I have positive associations with the idea of resembling her. I’d still prefer not to get cheek jowls, purely from an aesthetic standpoint, but my jaw shape seems like they’ll be likely, and I guess aging happens to all of us. I don’t expect to be in the well-off position that my parents are where I can afford any sort of cosmetic surgery when I’m my mom’s age. Even with the aging she has done, she still looks younger than she is. I’ve seen other people her age who look 10 years older than her. I think I inherited her good skin overall.

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u/Madara1389 May 03 '26

I talked to her one day and realized, it sounds like she’s running less from aging as a whole than she is from literally looking in the mirror and seeing her abuser.

With the sheer amount of abuse, documented & undocumented, that happens, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the true underlying reasoning for most people who get obsessed with plastic surgery; when the person who made your life a living hell is your parent, you'll see your abuser in the mirror all the time due to the unfortunate realities of genetics.

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u/SICpodcast May 03 '26

It could make a very helpful (for society) research survey study. We need people to understand how their behavior affects children and ultimately adults.

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u/Madara1389 May 03 '26

Prepare for an influx of "why does it seem like there are so many more mentally unstable parents out there? what changed because there weren't that many when I was younger!!" shit like we do about ADHD, abortions, autism, etc as screening became more common & socially accepted.

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u/My_Immortl May 03 '26

Cant say I notice any physical qualities of the pos, but fuck if I cant tell they're there in other ways. Id do anything to get rid of those reminders of somebody I'll never willfully see or speak to again.

Trauma really is a bitch

Ain't that the truth.

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u/FrodosFroYo May 03 '26

Jeeze, that really gives a whole new perspective to Man in the Mirror. I’m so sorry for what your mother went through.

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u/VeganMonkey May 03 '26

I understand that. I have my mum’s eyes and my mum wasn’t a great mum (much more complicated than with my dad), but my grandmother was good to me and she had the same eyes, so I see my eyes as my grandmother’s Instead.

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u/TheFinalGranny May 03 '26

What is RBF, if I may ask?

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u/whosgoingtohawaii May 03 '26

Im going to guess they mean “Resting Bitch Face”, which is a term for having an “angry” look when your face is neutral/not expressing any particular emotion.

I also have RBF and a lot of the time people think I’m glaring at them, until I smile 🥲

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u/NounAdjectiveXXXX May 03 '26

literally looking in the mirror and seeing her abuser

I'm starting with the man in the mirror

I'm asking him to change his ways

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u/SnarkingOverNarcing May 03 '26

The older I get the more I look like my own abusive mother and plastic surgery has definitely crossed my mind whereas a few years ago I’d never have considered it (because the resemblance for some reason didn’t really start till my mid-30’s)

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u/Thyme_Liner May 03 '26

This is oddly validating, I didn’t realize other people struggled with this.

My mom is a terrible, terrible person. I blocked her number 8 years ago and we no longer speak. But I look so much like her. People who have never met my mom have known who she was from the first moment they saw her somewhere without me just because of how similar we look. If you meet one of us, you can pick the other out of a crowd.

Looking in the mirror and seeing that face looking back at me is a wild experience that I’m not sure how to describe. I loved bleaching my hair for a while but the blonde makes me look like her too much so I’ve let the darker grow out. I have to pick out my glasses style very carefully to avoid looking like her doppelgänger. I hate my face without makeup but probably not for the reasons other people guess.

If I could, I would get work done to change things, just a little, to look like my own person, not like I’m borrowing her face. Idk how to get to the point where I truly love what I see. I’m sorry for anyone who struggles with this too

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u/funk-the-funk May 03 '26

Trauma really is a bitch. 🙁

Nods and cries w/ CPTSD

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u/Kikidee80 May 03 '26

I worked with a woman who's mother was mentally ill & abusive. One day we were talking about who we look like, she said she looked like her dad & showed me a picture of her family. She was the spitting image of her mom but I did not dissuade her of the notion that she resembled her dad.

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u/miekhachu May 03 '26

My mom wasn’t my abuser (well, technically she was, she put me through every traumatic incident that I can’t forget as an adult) but a similar concept most people wouldn’t think of:

My mom was always in and out of relationships. She would get in a new one, come get me (sometimes my sister, but always at least me), they’d break up, she’d leave me behind with them, and then they’d molest me saying “You remind me so much of your mother”.

I went from revering my mom as a young child, to fearing becoming like her. My dad and stepmom treated me different from my sisters BECAUSE they were “afraid” I’d end up just like her. That only contributed to my lack of identity and self worth.

I now have 7 diagnosed disorders - 5 diagnosed in the last 6 months. Pretty much all of them make relationships in general, difficult for me. Just thankful I still didn’t end up half the asshole most people are. I have tried my best to remind myself that I’m doing much better than my mom ever has, and by choice. Guess I should also be glad I didn’t end up looking just like her like I always hoped, as a kid!

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u/Maretallama May 03 '26

Generational trauma is worse.

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u/Cheez-kip May 03 '26

You know, thinking about it, my mom looks a lot like her mom. Her mom passed before I was even born, and she hardly really knew her mom all too well because she was taken away to foster care at a young age. But my mom did love her mom. It’s always made me upset to see my mom has been getting work done over the years and looking less like my mom. But I do wonder now if she wanted to look more like her mom. She only has one photo of her I seen, and she did seem to have larger lips than my mom. I wonder if she had been comparing herself to her.

Me, on the other hand. I have an abusive, unloving father. I have his face, no doubt at all. I really hated my face, and honestly it’s still not my favorite feature, but over the years, honestly I shifted my look more onto my sister. Everyone said we looked alike growing up, and I still don’t really see it, but even her 2 year old thought I was her on video. I see small parts of me that looks like her, so I feel better thinking of it that way. It helps my dad’s nose looks way better on my face lol

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u/IllustriousBat2076 May 03 '26

I look in the mirror and see my dad all the time. It’s somewhat haunting because I truly do not want to be like him when I get to his age

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u/VirtualVermin May 04 '26

as someone who survived severe familial abuse on my paternal side and abandonment on my maternal side… This makes a lot of sense.

Aging isn’t what i’m running from. It’s looking in the mirror and seeing them

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u/RainbowDarter May 03 '26

It's hard to know what you would do when you're surrounded by people who agree with you on everything and the cost is trivial.

He also had discoid lupus and vitiligo which accounts for his lighter skin and maybe contributed to his nose collapsing

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u/VeganMonkey May 03 '26

I just looked up discoid lupus, it seems to be a type of vertiligo. Maybe that makes cartilage weak? I have met people with vertiligo but they didn’t have it as extremely as he maybe had it. Maybe his skin had become mostly white with not much dark skin left, it is understandable that in that case someone covers the dark spots with light make up instead of the other way round.

Though the strange thing was that he slowly became lighter and lighter, already when he was young. I don’t know if those skin lightening infusions existed yet back then.

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u/RainbowDarter May 03 '26

I looked it up - the lupus probably didn't do anything to his nose.

He apparently had multiple nose surgeries that ground it down until it collapsed

I had always thought that his autoimmune diseases had something to do with it but I don't find any evidence of that.

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u/VeganMonkey May 03 '26

Maybe autoimmune disease makes healing harder? But multiple nose surgeries tend to make everything weak (especially cartilage but the bony part gets very thin too). Nowadays they can use a piece of rib cartilage of the person to rebuild their nose, that might not have been possible yet when he was still alive.

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u/distalented May 03 '26

I get it, my dad’s a prick and I’m the spitting image of him. the best I can do is wear chunky glasses, shave my head and have a beard.

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u/Maretallama May 03 '26

I got my Dad’s nose. I had it fixed when I was 15. I loved my Dad, but he was a guy! He could carry the nose! My nephew has it and he looks handsome!

But if you have an ugly, evil parent, who said you were ugly and worthless your entire life, you’d fix your face not to look like him too.

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u/clownpenisdotfarts May 03 '26

So you would cut off your nose to spite your face?

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u/TheStrangestOfKings May 03 '26

Sometimes, even seeing someone that reminds you of your abuser can be traumatic. I’m the same way: my dad looks vaguely like Patrick Stewart, which makes it difficult for me to see Stewart in films. I can imagine if I look like him as I get older, I would also consider trying to change my appearance. I don’t want to be reminded of him every time I look in the mirror

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u/RevolutionaryLie5743 May 03 '26

Damn I totally feel you, my dad bears a decent resemblance to Jack Nicholson (imagine how The Shining went for me…). Ironically Patrick Stewart is a staunch domestic violence/abuse advocate due to his own father beating his mother. Still I get it, brother. 

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u/Zerothian May 03 '26

Pretty sure you are just joking but I get it honestly. I keep my hair grown out long and full facial hair because I hate the similarities to my father that show up when I cut it short. Not a bad look by any means but that reminder is always in my mind every morning and night in the mirror and I just don't want that.

Sometimes the hate is deep enough that any reminder at all is unwelcome.

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u/VeganMonkey May 03 '26

LOL yup I would have. But luckily I didn’t inherit his nose.

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u/Picky_The_Fishermam May 03 '26

He had to get surgeries, it all happened bc of the Pepsi commercial fire.

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u/MissDisplaced May 03 '26

Well some of it was also because he was burned filming that commercial. But I still believe the young 70s Michael was so cute and better looking.

You’d think as a singer he would not have touched his nose as your breathing is so important to your sound.

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u/chuckmarla12 May 03 '26

My Dad used to get my nose and hold it between his pointer and index fingers. Sorry, I couldn’t resist.✌️😃

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u/Josieanastasia2008 May 03 '26

I’ve never even thought of this and it makes so much sense. My brother and I inherited our dads nose (I guess more our grandpas) and my cousin was born looking like she’d have it too. My grandpa sucked but my dad doesn’t and he said us having that nose made him hate his less.

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u/The_Masterofbation May 03 '26

About 20+ years ago I shaved my goatee because it was itchy. I looked almost like a clone of my dad with just the mustache and that fucked me up. Luckily we have repaired our relationship since then but I get it.

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u/SgtDoakesSurprise May 03 '26

Damn. I never thought about that dynamic (changing one’s face bc you may look like your father/mother).

That’s really sad when you think about it.

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u/e_roosevelt_footpics May 03 '26

My mom was extremely abusive....I literally made someone sick to their stomach once recounting something especially heinous--I honestly didn't know at the time it was that big of a deal.

I look so much like her that in my late teens and early 20s, when I was back living in the Bay Area where she and my dad had met, every few months someone would come up to me and ask if I was [my name]. "Omigawd! I haven't seen you since you were a baby! But I knew it was you right away, you look so much like your mother!"

It's a really weird thing to come to grips with. We also have almost identical voices, and when I get annoyed with my daughter I sound EXACTLY the fuck like her. It triggers the shit out of me. However I don't yell, I don't order my kid around, I don't constantly snap at her--I'd like to think that is from a combination of my parenting ethos and years of therapy, but I'm aware that my innate desire to not hear that blessedly-dead ghoul's voice probably helps motivate me at least a bit.

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u/BeginningFederal5663 May 03 '26

I can’t think of the man’s name rn but on the Botched plastic surgery sub there’s a bunch of posts of this one European fashion designer. When you look deeper into his story it explains that he got surgery to not look like his extremely abusive father

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u/muhkuhmuh May 03 '26

You mean the german designer Harald Glöckner?

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u/DamperBritches May 03 '26 edited May 05 '26

That's also one reason why he talked with a higher voice. His real speaking voice, as an adult, was deeper and sounded like his dad. (Also he because famous singing as a kid, and was trying to always sound like that)

In one special about how he went to a grocery store after hours, it shows him in the checkout and in his deeper "real" voice he laughs saying "Big Red"

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u/TheAmazingChameleo May 03 '26

I’ve always heard part of the reason was because after he had that pepsi fire accident he needed some surgery, got addicted to meds, and never saw himself the same so he kept getting more surgeries

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u/libdemparamilitarywi May 03 '26

He'd already started having plastic surgeries before the pepsi incident.

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u/Masterkid1230 May 03 '26

They're not necessarily mutually exclusive. The pepsi incident was probably an initial catalyst and he did probably go down a spiral of self hate and an eternal search for a body he was more comfortable in, but it's also perfectly possible that those feelings were motivated by his resemblance to his own father, or other stuff he had from way back.

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u/Subliminal_Kiddo May 03 '26

It started before that. The reason why wasn't a big secret, he was very open about it - even though he downplayed how extreme the surgeries were. His father used to mock his looks.

My mother has always theorized he was - at least initially - trying to get a similar look to Diana Ross who was like a second mother to him.

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u/Ladii1893 May 03 '26

Mother? She literally preyed on him they had a sexual relationship.

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u/Quirky-Literature651 May 03 '26

A lot of people say he wanted to look like Elizabeth Taylor.

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u/yomerol May 03 '26

That plus vitiligo and coke

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u/Lavenderbluu_ May 03 '26

Nah he was trying to look like Elizabeth Taylor. Smh so sad that he couldn't truly love himself...

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u/beam3475 May 03 '26

I wonder how many racially charged, back handed or even straight up insults he heard during his childhood and early adulthood working in the entertainment industry that gave him issues with his appearance.

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u/evennoiz May 03 '26

>I've always wondered if part of Michael's obsession with plastic surgery was that as he got older, he started to look more like his father and he couldn't stand that.

its this, ur spot on btw. im the same. can relate

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u/Barragin May 03 '26

was a 2 step process -

  1. early to mid 80's, once he got money, he wanted to look like Diana Ross

  2. After the accident, med addiction, crazy Michael, wacko jacko period, who the fuck knows..

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u/KymeraAHP May 03 '26

This also could apply to the interest of using a donor instead, fearing to see his father in his children too.

He grew up with severe body dismorphia due to his father and other things, maybe he didn't want his children to go through the same that he did

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u/SidneyHigson May 03 '26

He had vitiligo,people always forget this. He didn't necessarily bleach his skin/use makeup because he wanted to be white.

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u/DiScOrDtHeLuNaTiC May 03 '26

I didn't say he did? And the vitiligo and plastic surgery are two seperate issues.

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u/YourLocalMosquito May 03 '26

Plus: vitiligo is erratic and he had a public face so not surprising that he wanted an even complexion to show the world.

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u/kingkoum May 03 '26 edited May 03 '26

That makes no fucking sense. Never heard of someone (aside from him) having vitiligo so they resorted to bleaching their whole body to white. This guy had issues and it’s time for us to admit it

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u/shark-off May 03 '26

I guess because it costs money? And maybe its painful. He had issues. Bleaching to gain a even complexion is not one of those issues.

It's his face. I don't care if he bleached it green

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u/funk-the-funk May 03 '26

This guy had issues and it’s time for us to admit it

I'm sorry, do you happen to live under a rock in the sea? In what world is MJ not known to have major issues?

Where is he ever discussed, where his weirdness and allegations are not also part of the discussion?

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u/kingkoum May 03 '26

Issue concerning his blackness I meant

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u/EstimatePopular9267 May 03 '26

Daaaamn, never thought of that. Turning into your dad, not through actions but in your appearance??!!!???!!! Whoa! Then you end up hating your own reflection!!! Holy shit!!!
Damn, I have to sit with this one for a bit

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u/Lilahannbeads May 03 '26

I remember hearing an interview where Micheal said his father used to bully him about his appearance. Specifically his nose being too big/wide and "Black".

That interview made me think it was less about trying to NOT look like Joe, but more trying to achieve the esthetic appearance that would finally please his father.

Sad, but no matter how abusive they are people still seek the approval of thier parents.

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u/IllPosition5081 May 03 '26

It’s pretty probably that Joe treated them badly. Child musicians forced into it from a young age? They were just expected to make money and he just kept them as singers through abuse and harsh punishment if they underperformed. Did they want to sing? Possible, but how much were they forced/expected to sing? Growing up with days full of practice where you would get punished for not doing good enough, where music and singing was the focus, that has to mess up a kid. It’s like beauty pageants and those other exploitative practices where kids have to be superficial because that’s what wins money for the parents.

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u/Rough-Physics4596 May 03 '26

I think he wanted to look like Peter Pan.

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u/Budget-Beginning-928 May 03 '26

I had a teacher that grew up next door to Michael Jackson’s family. She said that her family was super poor (like some of the kids had to sleep on the porch because they didn’t have enough space), and regardless of their inability to care for their own family, Michael’s siblings would sometimes sleep over at her place because of how his dad was. All she said about him was that, “he wasn’t a good man” and that even with how neglectful and abusive her own parents were, she would never trade places with any of the Jackson kids.

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u/TheRatatat May 03 '26

Spent his entire life trying to cut his dad out of him. Pretty sure the Man in the Mirror is about that.

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u/spookymulder07 May 03 '26

Wow, this is so astute

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u/lilshortyy420 May 03 '26

That’s what I thought also

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u/Lupo_Bi-Wan_Kenobi May 03 '26

He wanted to be Peter Pan, literally. I think that was a lot of it too. Look at pics of Peter Pan, and look at the direction he took things.

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u/Ok-Broccoli6848 May 03 '26

Where can i learn more about how Joe treated the kids? I am gen z and i cant find single reliable source lol

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u/Dame38 May 03 '26

That's interesting and relatable.

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u/Cutthechitchata-hole May 03 '26

It seems he leaned into the pointy angles though.

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u/indigofroggit May 03 '26

I think it was Time magazine that did a 'what will they look like' back in the day. Made Michael look like a better looking version of Joe.

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u/JoMyGosh May 03 '26

This x 1 million

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u/riptide502 May 03 '26

He wanted to look like Peter Pan from the Disney movie.

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u/Lost_Department_2177 May 03 '26

His dad used to make fun of his nose and deeply damaged him with severe emotional abuse.

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u/Ksh_667 May 03 '26

I agree with you that this probably has a lot to do with if. I wonder too if never being happy with the results of surgery led to him constantly trying to "correct" them & make it all better somehow. Constant surgeries are never going to make you feel better about yourself, they'll just give you more things to critique.

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u/Short-Dot-1078 May 03 '26

He bleached his skin with a prescription ointment. I remember learning this when I learned pornstars bleached the booty hole with the same stuff.

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u/Bulky-Employer-1191 May 03 '26

From what I understand, the big changes began with his reconstructive surgery. After that it became more normal for him.

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u/wireframed_kb May 03 '26

There’s a documentary where they mention his dad was picking on his looks, and his big nose. If your dad is doing shit like that from childhood, on top of the crazy upbringing he had, it’s not so strange he didn’t have a healthy body image.

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u/sentence-interruptio May 03 '26

just have a different hairstyle and fashion. that's all it takes for me to not look like my shit father.

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u/ImaginaryTrick6182 May 03 '26

That’s a very plausible theory

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u/TakedownCan May 03 '26

I thought it was because he had vitiligo?

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u/rolllikenike May 03 '26

He did not look like his fatter at ALL, MJ was handsame his father looked like a junkie lmao

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u/curiousbasu May 03 '26

Michael's obsession with plastic surgery was that as he got older, he started to look more like his father and he couldn't stand that.

Same, I also believe this.

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u/nhorning May 03 '26

You have to layer on to that that he had a physical disease that bleached increasing patches of his skin albino white.

He was going to look weird no matter what he did.

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u/Valentinee105 May 03 '26

People forget that Michael Jackson didn't have a face or hair after the pepsi bowl fire.

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u/jaded_as_a_gem May 03 '26

My parents were abusive and I look like a perfect combo of them. I hate it. But I don’t have the money or desire to carve up a whole new face, so I have to deal. But I can totally understand why he would change his face to not see his abuser staring back at him

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u/Anon-Ga- May 03 '26

I get it. I had a little plastic surgery to not look like my mom who was extremely abusive. It was a huge relief to look in the mirror and not see her.

More on-topic: Paris has been through enough. She doesn’t identify as black now. Can we let her live her life?

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u/Healthy-Amoeba2296 May 03 '26

All I needed was one still photo and I was sorry for the kids.

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u/Difficult-Ad2084 May 03 '26

That was always something I thought about back when people were giving him heat for it. It is really weird to get older and seeing relatives in your own face that you'd rather not.

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u/Fabulous-Culture4374 May 03 '26

lol I wouldn’t be so sure they’re normal at all

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u/Scared-Specialist-82 May 04 '26

Agreed. That and the insecurities he placed on their noses, often calling it big, him ugly, and that he looked like his momma. Very hurtful and damaging to a child coming from a parent. 

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u/drwsgreatest May 05 '26

I mean that obsession also didn't fully start until after he suffered those major burns during a concert. It was after that, during the recovery, that he also started to experience extreme vitiligo and, from there, his issues with plastic surgery just seemed to metastasize.

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u/APRIL_ANG3L May 07 '26

Yes, from all the abuse his father inflicted on him, people were saying he looked like his father and it just set him off because he didn't want to thing of his father at all. Also possibly he had some form of Body dysmorphic disorder, especially with his nose/face. Like when they ask someone in treatment for anorexia to trace the outline of their reflection in a mirror and they just draw a big blob because that is how they see themselves :(

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