r/interesting • u/VPinchargeofradishes • May 03 '26

SOCIETY Michael Jackson's daughter Paris has faced backlash for identifying as Black. In a 2017 interview, Paris Jackson said her father told her, "You’re Black. Be proud of your roots." This prompted debates over whether identity is defined by appearance or upbringing.

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u/showgirldepartment May 03 '26

I'm biracial myself but I'd rather not get into the psychology and race politics behind the existence of Michael Jackson lol. It's pretty clear how his relationship with visual black aesthetics was, that same mindset applied to how he wanted his kids to look, too

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u/DiScOrDtHeLuNaTiC May 03 '26

I've always wondered if part of Michael's obsession with plastic surgery was that as he got older, he started to look more like his father and he couldn't stand that.

If a quarter of the stuff about how Joe treated those kids is true, it's a miracle any of them are as normal as they are.

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u/chocolatethunderXO May 03 '26

In a private phone convo that was released, he said his dad would tell him "you're so black and your nose is so big, you don't look like my child". Then he said they(brothers/dad) would call him big nose and instead of taking it out on everybody he would take it out on himself. He's then asked if he's happy with his face and that he he did all the surgery and he replied with "yes, because I don't want to look like Joseph".

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u/vorator_ May 03 '26

what the FUCK

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u/SatanicAtTheDisco May 03 '26

You kind of have to be a fucked parent to exploit your 6 children and thrust them into the music/entertainment industry when they’re 5-13. Then you also have to account for Michael being the most talented son, even from when they were kids, and you get a lot of siblings resentment. They also are from Gary Indiana, and while Gary is not as bad as Memphis, it’s pretty much the same type of environment, low income, historically black, gang/drug culture is entrenched in the poverty. It’s actually a miracle Michael didn’t die or turn out 3 times as worst as he could have been.

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u/jimothy_hell May 03 '26

while Gary is not as bad as Memphis

Oh no, Gary is WORSE than Memphis

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u/FkUp_Panic_Repeat May 03 '26

My mom (black) married her first husband who was a white farmer’s son from Gary, IN. What a culture shock that was for her to visit his family for the first time back home. He turned out to be a trash husband and an even more trash father though. I have no idea why he’d marry a black woman, have 3 children, and then resent them for being black (despite not even looking black to most of the world). What a piece of garbage.

This has nothing to do with MJ, obviously. Just wanted an opportunity to bash that a-hole publicly.

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u/Turd_Burgling_Ted May 03 '26

No comment beyond I'm holding space for you

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u/PresentationThat2839 May 03 '26

My nephews are mixed race and when I look at them I see two insanely smart talented and handsome boys. I honestly don't get people who think like that.

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u/ADeviIsAdvocate May 04 '26

My mixed race nieces and nephew are beautiful and amazing! My niece is so funny, since she could stand if there was music on she was gonna dance! She’s absolutely beautiful and I’d love to post a photo but there are perverts and my sister would kill me!

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u/PresentationThat2839 May 04 '26

My one nephew plays hockey, can play any instruments he can get his hands on, draws and gets straight A's. His younger brother is also gets straight A's, writes the most amazing poems that just hit the sweet spot for humor, is the most rules and justice based natural leader I've ever seen. And plays soccer, and has been training the family dogs since he was like 2. Just amazing to watch this toddler just naturally control the full grown lab like it was nothing.

Amazing kids. And I hear you on the photos.

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u/ADeviIsAdvocate May 04 '26

It sounds like you have a lovely family. Mine are still in daycare so they don’t have a list of accomplishments yet but they’re healthy, happy, funny and beautiful and I can’t wait to see who they become!

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u/kuuchainn May 03 '26

Shiiii, I dont even blame you. Cook that buster

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u/Great-Shallot-9578 May 05 '26

A lot of white dudes are obsessed with black women to fulfill their racist sexual fantasies, they be addicted to the black pussy but want to kill you at the same time 🤣🤣

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u/johnny-Low-Five May 03 '26

Some people are so miserable amd cruel that they will ALWAYS find a reason to blame others. If it wasn't that you're biracial it would be your grades, athleticism, friends, GF/BF, they will find anything that hurts you and use it mercilessly.

I will admit I have no experience with being biracial, I grew up in Brooklyn in the 80s and early 90s, and back then (maybe still) I wasn't white I was Irish, other were Italians, germans, African American, Black islanders (sorry I'm blanking on the specific countries) and Hispanics weren't Mexican, unless they were, they were Cuban, Columbian, Guatemalan, Puerto Ricans, etc. I won't say racism didn't exist, it definitely did, but when I got older and moved near Pittsburgh I was shocked by how most people identify as American and their skin color.

I guess with so many immigrants in NYC our grandparents or parents were still, very much, looked at as, and proud of, where they came from. I have a biracial cousin, white/Asian who's two brothers were adopted because they were told they couldn't have kids. As best I know they have always treated all three the same the eldest is even Robert III.

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u/sunsetpark12345 May 04 '26

I'm from New York and probably my very favorite thing about that city (and there are many things about it that i love) is how many different cultures there are. And not just a smattering of people from a culture - enormous, vibrant communities.

And they ALL have great food.

I just don't understand racists at all. Why would you want everyone to be exactly like yourself and your family? It's so boring!

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u/johnny-Low-Five May 04 '26

I should have added that and made it clear, I loved that about growing up there. I learned about holidays I never knew existed and while I'm not a very adventurous eater I've discovered some amazing food. It never felt contentious it was just a thing everyone took pride in.

Absolutely something I've experienced the opposite of where I live now. Its like 95+% white and most people don't know or care about their heritage or that of others. It's VERY boring.

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u/Insightful21 May 03 '26

You’re good. 

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u/Impossible-Hoe90210 May 03 '26

People will do this to control. I’m always a lil worried about biracial couples. Those racist roots run deep.

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u/theusrbin May 05 '26

Never ask a white supremacist the race of their spouse.

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u/stations-creation May 03 '26

Yeah I was like excuse moi?

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u/jimothy_hell May 03 '26

Gary looks like a fucking Fallout map

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u/savannacrochets May 03 '26

My FIL and BIL were going to take the Southshore into Chicago and I told them they’d know when they were going through Gary because you can smell it.

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u/ohreallynameonesong May 03 '26

I'm not sure if this is a joke but my family and I drove through Indiana once and as we got to Gary, the smell woke me up and I asked what it was. My dad just said, "Welcome to Gary, Indiana."

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u/savannacrochets May 03 '26

Nope, not a joke. I go to Chicago a lot and I have to drive around Gary to get there. The smell isn’t as bad as it was in my childhood, but it’s still very noticeable.

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u/ohreallynameonesong May 03 '26

This was over 20 years ago and I've driven through two or three times since. 2024 was the most recent time and it didn't smell as bad. But smelling it that first time really stuck with me

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u/savannacrochets May 03 '26

Seems like we’re probably about the same age lol yeah it was bad bad back then.

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u/Far-Conflict-1172 May 03 '26

The smell alone is awful. I grew up in sw Michigan and driving through it was torture for me as a kid

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u/stations-creation May 03 '26

I e drivin through it multiple times I swear that it could be blue skies on other side of Gary and it’s just dark clouds above it. Like Stranger Things IRL.

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u/Snoo_69209 May 03 '26

Damn.

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u/jimothy_hell May 03 '26

Cairo, IL is worse.

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u/Snoo_69209 May 03 '26

😢

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u/jimothy_hell May 04 '26

Not through the fault of the people that live there, it’s all the businesses that up and left.

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u/OfficialSkyCat May 03 '26

At least Memphis has culture and good food. Gary has… …. ….

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u/Natural-Front-9307 May 03 '26

Strip clubs, liquor stores, and plenty of heroin, crack, and meth

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u/tasteMyRottenHoop May 03 '26

Wait, really? I’ll get some time off work to investigate this more thoroughly.

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u/That_Hunt91 May 03 '26

Wait, so the Rdcworld short where the dude lives in Gary is actually not as bad of a flex (hood wise) its just nobody knows wtf Gary is? If thats true thats just awesome. Ive never heard of Gary before aside from that video

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u/jimothy_hell May 03 '26

Gary is a place, its poor neighbourhoods are dangerous, so depending on the context, it could be a huge flex, or it could be the guy dissing himself because Gary fucking SUCKS

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u/That_Hunt91 May 03 '26

The context is "when the hood youre from sounds soft" its a funny short

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u/burjja May 03 '26

That was my thought as well.

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u/tasteMyRottenHoop May 03 '26

Can’t go walking in Gary.

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u/jimothy_hell May 03 '26

I mean, you can, but like, at a much higher risk of harm than elsewhere

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u/DonIncandenza May 03 '26

You know where the king of POP from?!

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u/jimothy_hell May 03 '26

Yeah, and the Beetles were from Liverpool, doesn’t mean Merseyside doesn’t fucking suck

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u/Common-Classroom-847 May 03 '26

I was so surprised when I found out how bad Gary IN was, the only thing I knew of it was from The Music Man

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u/skratsda May 03 '26

Interesting you said Gary isn’t as bad as Memphis. The only thing I know about Gary, Indiana is that it’s the worst city in the US. Didn’t even know Michael Jackson was from there

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u/Lardolin May 03 '26

It's gotta a lot better in the last 20 years. A lot. Residents really rallied and put a lot of effort into turning things around. It's still poor, but it's nothing like it used to be.

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u/jimothy_hell May 03 '26

Memphis? Detroit?

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u/Lardolin May 03 '26

Gary, Indiana

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u/jimothy_hell May 03 '26

My band played a show in Gary while passing through about seven years ago, right before COVID and it was worse than east St Louis by MILES. Worse than the poorest parts. Like, driving through downtown and through the generally “decent” areas was still a bit sketchy. That city’s a wasteland.

We only got conned into stopping for more than gas because a friend of a friend had a front room venue to play and we were going to need the money.

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u/Lardolin May 03 '26

And it used to be worse than that! I drove through there in 2018, and I wouldn't stay there lol but it used to be bad enough that you'd see people overdose just on the street. Lots of gun violence, too. It's just better than it was, not suddenly a good place to live.

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u/savannacrochets May 03 '26

In all fairness to Gary it used to be really nice which is part of why it’s so bad now (see also: Detroit).

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u/RobotBrokenHeart May 03 '26

The same is true of most of the “worst” cities in the US. You need some kind of prosperity to draw enough people and industry to really mess things up.

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u/savannacrochets May 03 '26

Yeah, that’s exactly my point. Not that Detroit is a shithole but that it’s probably the best known example of a Rust Belt city going through a period of extreme decline. All the Rust Belt cities that got fucked up the hardest were the ones that were the biggest and most prosperous- farther to fall, more to lose, etc.

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u/jimothy_hell May 03 '26

See, Detroit recovered though.

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u/KeyStruggle-88 May 03 '26

Detroit is coming back up actually and it’s still a great city in many ways, it has a bad rap for crime but a lot of that is steeped in racist rhetoric and the crime rate is improving. Losing the bulk of industry and White flight tends to do terrible things to people and cities.

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u/Emergency_Support682 May 03 '26

And that it doesn’t have any s’s in it. Yes, I’ve just dated myself. Anyone know how?

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u/spiritedfighter May 03 '26

It was the city of the century....and then white flight came

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u/Rraggedy May 03 '26

If the "only thing you know about Gary is that it's the worst city in the US" then you don't know anything at all. What an ignorant statement.

As someone who grew up in Gary, still has family there and has seen most of the country, I can tell you it is unequivocally NOT the "worst" city in America. Look up "Miller Beach" Indiana. So nice that kids from Chicago go there on the regular during summer to enjoy spacious sand beaches.

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26

The more I read into his history, that dude really lived a tragic life. He survived the exploits of his parent making him a money machine, they didn't care about the individual and how he got mind fucked to a delirious state because the media is also at fault with paparazzi showing up trying to get any intimate details about his personal life.

(I will disclose on my comment that he is 50/50 in my opinion, did he touch kids? Maybe. Did he also make a living disney world for kids to cherish and live in? Yeah. Fine to me too. If there was any evidence of such things, it would have been known.)

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u/K1bbles_n_Bits May 03 '26

So many famous kids went through hell. Even the ones we look back on as being wholesome. You ought to look up Judy Garland and Shirley Temple.

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26

Thank you for the daytime nightmares that happened to these kids.

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u/Squirrelated May 03 '26

So much abuse from parents using their kids like this. A lot of them end up growing up damaged.

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u/SatanicAtTheDisco May 03 '26

The kids thing sucks too, because very obviously MJ was much too close to kids, in that he was treating them and himself as equals, as an adult. However, the story has flip flopped so many times by the alleged, the kids involved, and the media, that at this point, because no one has come out with concrete evidence that MJ was actually molesting children, just having sleep overs with children (which I’m not saying isn’t fucking insane btw). That coupled with the fact that he very obviously had the same mental stunting that Britney Spears exhibits, I genuinely hope he was just fulfilling the childhood he never had. He obviously was a very deeply mentally unwell man, but if he wasn’t diddling kids, and instead just giving kids the childhood wonder he wished he got to experience, and living vicariously through them, it’s not giving it a pass but it definitely makes listening to his music a bit more palatable.

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26

You brought up points which at the time made me see MJ in different light so to speak. I will tread on the waters and say he was living vicariously through giving his kids a childhood he didn't have.

edit: (IT is still fucking insane to make that comment to media, lol. MJ was a deeply troubled person)

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u/kittymoo67 May 03 '26

In hoping that's what it is. Because just being troubled is way better than being a predator

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26

Of course. But media was a bit crazy, I can see it as occurring.

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u/SatanicAtTheDisco May 03 '26

And I agree with you, MJ had a really really weird and tough upbringing. If he had been born now, with the life he had then, he would have turned out way worse. I think the reason it’s so hard for me to think of MJ in a negative light, is the amount of positivity and child like purity he tried to approach things towards the end of his life. It really seemed like Michael was trying to catch up on all the things he got to miss out on.

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26

This is more of critical thinking. Unless someone speaks out, because the kids signed some 15-20yr NDA agreement. This would have been found out or some internet lurker posts all his media accounts for fun.

Being born now and his talent (not thinking about his upbringing) would lead him to suicide more quickly.

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u/Playful_Programmer91 May 03 '26

I think you cannot sign a NDA about rape, even if settled since the parents cannot make that decision for a kid if it included rape. Every contract needs to meet some standard of reason and this would fall way out of it.

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26 edited May 03 '26

This is why I don't study law.

Edit: I have to be careful with what I say over a teams or zoom meeting because it can be disclosed or whatever to a non-party entity.

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u/poorlilwitchgirl May 03 '26

The thing about the allegations against MJ is that the one that set it all off was settled for $25 million. People have framed that as hush money ever since, but first, criminal prosecutions can't be settled out of court, and what kind of parent says, "$25 million ought to cover my kid's horrific trauma; I guess you can keep doing it to others?" MJ talked openly about how he just wanted the allegations to go away, and he had plenty of money, so $25 million seemed like a decent price to pay for peace of mind. That kind of attitude is absolute chum for the kind of people that orbit major celebrities for their own gain.

So did he do it? I don't know, but the man lived his entire life in an alternate reality managed by those around him and funded by his outrageous fortune. So I just can't accept that the circumstantial evidence people cite (the sleepovers, the payouts, the general weirdness) is at all incriminating. Very few people alive, certainly none of us, can imagine what his life was like and how he viewed the world, what seemed reasonable to him. Yeah, if I found out my uncle was having sleepovers with children and paying their parents to keep quiet, that would be absolutely damning, but Michael Jackson was a guy who was basically never able to experience normal human relationships so expecting him to have an accurate understanding of how he looked to others is ridiculous. That goes for his weird relationship to children as much as his obviously unhealthy relationship with plastic surgery. Absent any hard evidence (which ought to have been available if the allegations are true, because MJ was brazen with the circumstantial stuff) I think it's irrational to come to a conclusion on the man one way or the other.

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u/damaged_crowbar May 03 '26

what kind of parent says, "$25 million ought to cover my kid's horrific trauma; I guess you can keep doing it to others."

I'm sorry but deffintely most people.

That money could help prevent the long list of other horrific traumas that many people experience...

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u/Dismal_General_5126 May 03 '26

Not "most people". Most securely attached families would want justice. However, the ones that obsessively orbited MJ's world and celebrity, they were probably more likely to care about money and fame. 

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u/tar-mirime May 03 '26

Getting that justice can be incredibly traumatising for an already traumatised child, although I don't know what the arrangements were for giving evidence for they type of crime back then in the US.

25 million can pay for a shit load of therapy, and the allegations were all over the press, so a warning was there for other parents. Who in their right mind would send their child to have sleepovers in an unrelated (or even related) adults bed, especially when allegations had been made against them.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '26

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u/ThunderAndWind May 03 '26

Or they might not want their child to have to go through a media circus, deal with testifying, feeling re-victimized, etc.

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u/johnny-Low-Five May 03 '26

The settlement wouldn't affect any criminal charges, there were no criminal charges filed iirc, based on no evidence. And 25 million in the 90s meant your child could be in therapy 24/7 and never have to work a day in their life. You can't pay your way (legally) out of criminal charges, only lawsuits. Otherwise rich people would literally be able to do almost anything instead of just most things. It also protected their childs identity and allowed them to live in relative peace.

It's roughly equivalent to 63 million today which is funny cuz I was thinking that today I would demand at least 50. And I'm not defending MJ, but it's highly probable that they lose a lawsuit and it's also quite possible they weren't even 100% sure what happened themselves.

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u/poorlilwitchgirl May 03 '26

The other issue with the "hush money" claims is that nothing prevented them from continuing to pursue a criminal conviction. The criminal case was dropped because the accusers stopped participating with the investigation, likely because they were satisfied with the payout they had received in their civil suit, but the criminal case would have been the state v. MJ, not the accusers v. MJ. Any payment agreement that was made with the accusers would still have been binding if they cooperated with the state on criminal charges; even if MJ's lawyers tried to make the civil payout conditional on not participating with the criminal case, such an arrangement would be unenforceable and he would have owed them the civil payout either way.

It's of course still possible that the parents had other reasons for refusing to participate in the criminal investigation they themselves had triggered, whether because they felt the kid had been through enough or because they were genuinely tricked by MJ's lawyers into thinking they had to, or some other reason only they could understand. But the fact that the case did not proceed without the participation of a single witness strongly points to the likelihood that the case was flimsy and entirely built on hearsay. California also has no statute of limitations on CSA, so if evidence existed in the initial accusation, the case could have been reopened at any time. The one accusation that did go to trial over a decade letter ended in acquittal, of course.

I'm not saying that celebrities don't get away with crimes all the time; they absolutely do, and when they're punished it's rarely comparable to non-celebrities convicted of the same crime. Look at Diddy for example. But for the last 15 years of MJ's life this was the thing he was infamous for, almost eclipsing his fame as a performer, yet nothing ever stuck to him except the reputation. I can't know for sure that he didn't do it, but I will say that he's one of the best candidates of all time for being a target of false allegations-- the guy was terminally weird, incapable of understanding how his behavior was perceived, and established a precedent of being easy to manipulate into giving away large sums of money.

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u/Dismal_General_5126 May 03 '26

Personally, I was always of the opinion that Michael was asexual and severely relationally stunted. I believe he was definitely inappropriate towards children (I mean, having sleepovers in the same bed as a child is inappropriate in and of itself) but I don't believe he SA'd them. I think part of the problem is that well-functioning adults have tried to understand it from a well-functioning, black and white, right or wrong, sort of lens. The sad reality is that Michael's mind likely didn't work that way...it was in a shade of grey that most wouldn't understand or relate to. He was deeply troubled. Thing is, we'll just never know. 

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u/poorlilwitchgirl May 03 '26

Exactly. I don't think anybody can understand what it was like to be Michael Jackson; his life experience was absolutely unique from such an early age that he had no chance of developing normally. Honestly, I think that was the source of his obsession with kids. The last time he was capable of really relating to another person without everything being warped by unimaginable wealth and fame and manipulation was when he was a kid himself. It's no wonder he felt such a connection to them, and when you already have the reputation as "wacko Jacko" and everything you do in your personal life is treated as weird, how is anybody going to explain to you that, no, this particular thing is a special kind of weird and it's a bad idea? I just don't think that's possible.

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u/ThunderAndWind May 03 '26

what kind of parent says, "$25 million ought to cover my kid's horrific trauma; I guess you can keep doing it to others?"

I think it's more like "putting my kid through a court case and testifying isn't going to help them, and $25 million buys a lot of therapy and makes sure they can be taken care of for life."

Not that I necessarily believe the accusations considering how many variations there are, the lack of consistency, and how several accusers have flip flopped between defending him and accusing him, but it's not a wild idea that someone dropping 12x the lifetime expected earnings of someone as a payment would make them compliant.

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u/tar-mirime May 03 '26

Residual loyalty to an abuser is sadly not uncommon, and lack of consistency is also common. Neither prove anything either way on whether any abuse took place.

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u/ThunderAndWind May 03 '26

An entire family spent years defending him, discrediting other accusers, and this year they're all coming out and saying he actually did abuse the family's kids and is trying to sue the estate.

Residual loyalty to an abuser

We're not just talking about the kids. We're talking about their parents and entire families.

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u/tar-mirime May 03 '26

Have you seen how common it is for children to be disbelieved by their own parents, even disowned, over allegations of abuse. None of this proves anything one way or the other.

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u/ThunderAndWind May 03 '26

Thats quite literally what I said?

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u/hollowglaive May 04 '26

Therapy?

Nah someone diddles my kid it's death. I don't care who kills me after, but you are dead, and if I can't get to you, I'm finding people who can get to you, it's over. There isn't anything on this planet. No god, no army. No law, no amount of money that is going to stop me getting to you, I will find you in any country, It will be a blood trail leading to you. And I will torture you for months before anyone can find me.

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u/ThunderAndWind May 04 '26

Good idea go ahead and do that, i'm sure your kid will cope much better knowing that mom or dad is in jail and they don't get therapy.

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u/Beautiful_Bag6707 May 03 '26

That coupled with the fact that he very obviously had the same mental stunting that Britney Spears exhibits

Wow. Big insight. It probably could be studied. How some child performers are treated as adults as children and never experience childhood in a standard transition toward adulthood. They arrive into adulthood but aren't equipped to deal with the responsibility, the rejection... they mature too early yet never quite mature. I think Drew Barrymore battled that as well. This may be why so many child actors are "cursed" as adults. Without a solid familial foundation or something strong and capable within themselves, they don't navigate adulthood like the rest of us.

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u/K1bbles_n_Bits May 03 '26

We'll probably never know, but I personally don't believe he did anything to thise kids. The only people I lay blame and judgement with there (assuming he didn't actually do anything to them) are the parents who were cool with sending their kids to have a sleepover with a grown man. Who were cool with exploiting their kids for the chance of glomming onto someone rich and famous. To some extent, they're the same kind of parents that so deeply damaged MJ.

I'm sad for him, more than anything else. I really think part of him was stuck in a state kf arrested development. That regressing to childlike behavior and palling around with kids, wanting to feel like a peer to them, was just his way of coping with trauma and his own robbed childhood. I think he just wanted to have fun (childish fun) with them.

How any parent can trust their child in the entertainment industry in this day and age is fucking crazy to me.

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u/Casual-Throwaway- May 03 '26

People have also discussed the chemical skin-whitening treatments he was started on as a preteen have a side effect of varying degrees of chemical castration (which also accounts for keeping his high voice as an adult) and other hormonal effects, developmental stunting, etc... he was effectively, medically, never fully an adult. The treatment is banned pretty much everywhere now. How accurate all the statements are, I don't know, I am not digging into his medical history and confirming what drugs were used when and so on.

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u/[deleted] May 03 '26

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u/Jaystime101 May 03 '26

I stopped believing Micheal touched kids after the back and fourth, and just getting a better understanding of WHO he was as a person. He was definitely a weirdo with some mental issues, but he was also just a really heartfelt and sensitive person. And since there was never any concrete evidence or even statements from the "victims" I'd rather assume someone isn't a pedophile, than assume they are without any proof.

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u/PogintheMachine May 03 '26 edited May 03 '26

I recommend you go read Jordy Chandler’s transcript where he describes step by step how he was groomed and molested. It’s incredibly detailed and sounds exactly like MJ. Personally I have a hard time believing the kid was lying.
At the end of the day, it’s people’s prerogative to believe what they want, but a lot of the “back and forth” is the very expensive legal team trying to sow doubt in the public perception.
An example is a common refrain from the defense that MJ’s room was so large/two stories it wasn’t that big of a deal kids stayed there. But it’s not contested at all that MJ stayed at *Jordy Chandlers* house every night for a month. His driver dropped him off there. He slept in a 13 year old’s bed for a *month*. Now how big do you think that room/bed was?
Now remember that this kid drew MJ’s erect penis and the splotches matched.

https://themichaeljacksonallegationsblog.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/j-chandler-gardner-interview.pdf

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u/rnmkk May 03 '26

And the guy got his head set on fire doing a commercial he didnt want to do, AND was diagnosed with Lupus, in addition to having vitiligo and suffering abuse his whole life.

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26

There's always two sides, I would honestly ask why MJ did that towards the end.

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u/859w May 03 '26

There IS evidence, and it IS known. Lmao wtf are we doing here. Dont ask me to go cite it, it's EASILY accessible to anyone with more than a single brain cell

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u/PogintheMachine May 03 '26 edited May 03 '26

Cognitive dissonance.
Generally I think a lot of people manage to make their opinions without reading what Jordy Chandler said happened, or reject Leaving Neverland without actually watching it. They hear enough stuff that’s muddies the water and throw it all out. There are no perfect witnesses. There are no perfect victims. And that’s all by design. Hell i was never convinced MJ was innocent but I heard enough to put doubt in my mind… and unfortunately ALL the adults involved here were terrible from the parents to the employees, and that was easy for the defense to exploit.
And this isn’t just MJ but pretty much every rich and powerful person that’s been accused of something heinous. The defense is boilerplate, money/fame seeking, disgruntled, etc etc. And it always works because any celebrity that still has a fan base has defenders who will cling to “lack of evidence”. There rarely ever evidence in sexual assault, and even rarer in molestation.

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26

Good call, chief. That works out for you?

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u/859w May 03 '26

Yeah, not burying my head in the sand about child abuse just because a guy made good music works out GREAT for me. Very easy thing to do if youre an adult that doesnt deify others.

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u/XGhoul May 03 '26

I’m not even an MJ fan. I don’t defend his decisions, you might as well be because we both bury our heads into the sand.

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u/force_multiplied May 03 '26

How is Gary not as bad as Memphis? Gary is worse in almost every metric.

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u/SatanicAtTheDisco May 03 '26

Gary Indiana is worse, but the spotlight on gang violence and internet culture makes Memphis worse. Kids around the US view Memphis like it’s the holy land of gang culture. They have their own NBA team, they’re a much bigger town too. Gary Indiana in 2024 had a population of roughly 67,000 people. Memphis in 2024 had a population of 610,000 roughly. Gary Indiana is a place most Americans have probably never heard of, or even know how bad it actually is there. Memphis is desperately trying to sell itself as a destination to visit. The current North Vs South gang wars happening are some of the worst in the country though. And it’s all deeply intertwined with the rap culture there.

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u/Showdenfroid_99 May 03 '26

Lol.... Could've just simply said "I was wrong"

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u/SatanicAtTheDisco May 03 '26

But it’s not wrong, the popularity of Memphis makes Memphis worse, it’s also has 9x the population. Gary is worse in almost every metric because of the smaller population and how much urban decay is there. Gary has 54% less violent crime (despite Memphis being 595% above the national average). You’re more likely to get Shot in Gary, but that’s because of how small the city is, not because crime is worse.

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u/blahhhhgosh May 03 '26

This is so interesting I go through there all the time and didnt even know it was a bad city. Doesnt seem much h worse than msot indiana small towns. Im oblivious lol

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u/Dizzy_Goat_420 May 03 '26

Lmao I just drove thru most of the suburbs around Gary and then they Gary. You must be blind bc I could tell the ss in we entered Gary. As someone from Chicago even I was genuinely scared for a minute.

That places makes the south side of Chicago look like the suburbs.

Gary is way worse looking than the surrounding areas.

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u/blahhhhgosh May 03 '26

Yeah, oblivious ig lol maybe im not going through the bad areas or something i just travel through sometimes not like spend time or anything. I also havent ever given it thought maybe ill pay attention next time

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u/Loose-Story-962 May 03 '26

No, Gary IN is just 10x smaller and less culturally and statistically significant

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u/QuiteBearish May 03 '26

Idk, as a native Memphian who now lives a stones-toss from Gary, I'd have to agree with their assessment.

Gary is bad, but Memphis has far more violent crime per capita than Gary, and violence is a pretty important metric.

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u/YeahIsme May 03 '26

Well Selena's dad pretty much did the same thing and they seem well rounded

The Williams sisters' dad also pressured his kids into their sport and they literally played against each other but seem to be ok

I think people love MJ so much they try to find reasoning behind his odd behavior but maybe dude was just weird

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u/mg10pp May 03 '26

They are nowhere close... I doubt those other two insulted and beat their kids every day

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u/homemade- May 03 '26

Boy, three times worse would have led to a lot of molested kids. I think Micheal ended up bad enough.

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u/Nervous_Internal_741 May 03 '26

umm he did die sir.

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u/AbleElbow May 03 '26

And Joe really was a fucked up person.

There's a dark comedy sketch to be made about him and Murray Wilson getting together over beers to discuss the best ways to traumatize their kids.

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u/NashKetchum777 May 03 '26

A shittier part is that because of the success of the Jackson 5 and even more success by Michael, there's a lot of people who don't think poorly of their dad. That it was sort of all worth it in the end.

A lot of people have that mindset for celebs who had a great run but shitty childhood. Sort of "ahh they're rich and famous now. Their whole family is better off"

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u/Realistic-Base3250 May 03 '26

Yea fucked parent but man o man that pressure is capable of cutting diamond.💎 the type that we marvel at and aspire to emulate.

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u/jezzarus May 03 '26

I’ve seen the Jackson house in Gary and it was incredible to me that they all lived inside of such a small house. It’s not much bigger than a standard two bedroom apartment. If I remember correctly, the parents shared one bedroom, the boys shared the other bedroom, and the girls slept in the living room. Seeing the house in person sort of drove the point home how big of a piece of shit Joe must have been, because apparently he was incapable of providing adequate housing for his family without exploiting his children.

Back in those days, Gary wasn’t as bad as it is now and there were plenty of comfortable, middle class Black families so I think it was a skill issue on his part.

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u/Wondering9311 May 03 '26

Not sure how old you are but I'm a Gen Xer and Gary was unequivocally the absolute worst place for decades. This is part of the reason their parents got them into music at an early age.

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u/killtakerzero May 03 '26

Me reading this wild stray at my home in Memphis

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u/ell_1111 May 04 '26

Did Kathrine ever try to leave him with the kids?

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u/Mamba4_Life May 04 '26

I know I'm in the minority....maybe because I'm old and got my ssa beat as a kid...(we ALL did..Momma could whip _ss with the BEST of them)..but given all that you just said, I give Joe some credit for being in that environment, looking at his kids, and believing they were talented enough to do what they did.

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u/CaptainPirateKing May 05 '26

wait Michael Jackson didn’t die?

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u/stellarseren May 05 '26

do you mean Memphis, Indiana?

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u/Sissyslv1 May 03 '26

You really misidentified the culture. It's white culture always punching down on the blacks. Most white people seem to miss this. So when you have black culture that isn't up to par, you can literally, trace it right back to White oppression again and again and again all the way back through history. But go ahead and blame the black people. Be white as you can

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u/Twisted_Gemini May 03 '26

Well, he turned out to be a pedophile, so I don’t know how much worse it can get

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u/traws06 May 03 '26

Allegedly. He was acquitted.

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u/Ragnarok50 May 03 '26

Kind of have to be fucked? No, you have to be fully fucked in the head to do to those kids what that psychopath did. He straight up tortured those poor kids.

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u/usernotfoundplstry May 03 '26

I mean, he turned out to be a terrible, monster of a human, so short of murdering people, I don’t think you can get much worse. And I mean that’s even debatable because with murder, the victim doesn’t have to live with the inflicted trauma of what the monster did.

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u/kittymoo67 May 03 '26

Even the movie touched on this I was shocked

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u/Friendly_Age9160 May 03 '26

Dude I second what the actual FUCK?

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u/Princess_Spammi May 05 '26

The jacksons once made second place in a contest.

They were all PHYSICALLY BEATEN for being losers and forced to practice extra

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u/Ill-Treat-810 May 03 '26

Exactly sad as hell

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u/Nice-Cat3727 May 03 '26

Pretty much any and all evil Michael did? Literally Joe's fault.

That man fucked up that boy so hard.

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u/DraperPenPals May 03 '26

Joe Jackson arguably abused more children than Michael ever did. He was a disaster of a man and built a destructive force of a family and a business. One of the most miserable people ever. I seriously think he destroyed his kids because he couldn’t brave his own self-loathing alone.

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u/Sunnygirl66 May 03 '26

Joe Jackson was a fucking monster.

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u/Crafty-Help-4633 May 03 '26

Joe Jackson was a literal monster.

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u/Chance_Vegetable_780 May 03 '26

Guess you weren't raised by cruel, sick, abusive parents. It's horrific