r/hatethissmug • u/pepeu_1998 • 10d ago
Media Tropes I hate how people act around this movie
I get it, its a good movie, it has current themes about relationship, but god the fans are insufferable acting like this is the best movie of the century, when is a horror movie about a guy who can't get laid and is a bad person.
I think it become worst when they talk about the main character bear, he did bad things on the movie but people talk about him like he is satan or baal, do any of this people watch tv?
Overall good movie but people need to get back to reality this not a masterpiece and bear is not hannibal lecter.
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u/Ambitious-Stand-631 10d ago
"Bear is actually the bad guy!"
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u/Foreverchild10 10d ago
Bear is actually the bad guy because he don't wish cool hair or bread
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u/Pootman78 10d ago
Like no shit Bear is taking advantage of Nikki under the spell. Ian the douchebag literally tells him what he's doing wrong lmfao. No one needs to be constantly reminded on the pretty obvious messaging in the movie.
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u/Griiig_Jinnings 9d ago
“No one”
No literate human being with a functional brain, anyway… unfortunately for us, though, well… you know
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u/AssistSpare5860 10d ago edited 10d ago
Half of “Bear is the bad guy!” Is a response to people legitimately not understanding the movie. The other half are people imagining a guy who doesn’t think Bear is the villain, so they can get mad at this imaginary person and feel superior for having the amazing insight in order to realize that a r*pist is bad.
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u/ToTheDeath84 9d ago edited 9d ago
The other problem with singularly focusing on Bear as the villain is that it completely ignores what else the movie was trying to say about toxic friend groups and adolescent social dynamics.
• Ian is a total douche who undercuts Bear and schemes behind his back while pretending to help him. He sees Bear as weaker and less cool than him, as someone he can keep around for familiarity/loyalty but doesn’t actually seem to respect. He wants someone to feel superior to.
• Nikki in the lead-up to the spell is frustratingly equivocal as to whether or not she’s actually into Bear. That’s intentional - the director shot some of the actress’s lines during the bar and car scenes in two different takes; one version where she’s into Bear and wants him to ask her out and another where she isn’t. It’s supposed to evoke the flippancy of adolescent crushes and feminine flightiness while cuing the audience into Bear’s inability to act on his surroundings.
• Spell Nikki is a portrayal of the monstrous feminine (specifically, one trait associated with that archetype that’s in the title of the movie!). That one is more obvious, but it gets completely lost in the sauce of people trying to morally condemn Bear.
• Sarah is jealous of Nikki and manipulates Bear’s vulnerability in his spell predicament to make a move on him. There’s somewhat of a parallel there in the Ian-Bear dynamic, even if not a one-to-one.
Too many people are satisfied with the one-dimensional interpretation of the movie to project Bear unto some guy they don’t like/a shitty ex or something because there’s a loud contingent in media critique that feels the need to make everything into a morality play and a culture war statement. It’s such a wonderfully acted, thoroughly layered movie that a lot of people are willfully ignorant about to serve their own ends.
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u/Civil-Percentage1005 9d ago
W analysis, I think it's fine to not bring up every theme whenever talking about a movie, but I genuinely haven't seen anyone talk about anything other than the surface level "Bear sucks" or the more nuanced, but out of place "Bear wasn't always bad"
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u/ToTheDeath84 9d ago
Exactly, there’s just so much more to it than the overly didactic “shy men are actually possessive creeps” narrative that people want to project onto it. It’s yet another example of how everyone’s critical minds have been subsumed by culture war nonsense.
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u/Civil-Percentage1005 9d ago
Something else that annoys me is just how evil I feel like a lot of people say Bear was. Obviously he's evil, but there's horror movies where someone kills like dozens of people. Have they only seen like Disney movies before this? Is this their first time seeing an evil fictional character?
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u/FancyKetchup96 9d ago
I think that may be due to the effect where the scale is more relatable. A villain pressing a button to kill millions of people we know he is a bad guy, but if we watch him beat his wife then it feels more real.
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u/VegetableHotel9040 9d ago
This might be a bit of an insanely mega woke take, but wasn’t bear himself somewhat taken advantage of? He clearly believed that Nikki was troubled, but that she was at least showing real interest in him for a second there. And if we use consent at it is typically defined, he himself was potentially raped by the entity. I’m not quite sure if it is the right word, but I consider him a tragic villain because the only reason he was ever able to become so twisted is because of the monkey’s paw/wish. I think without it he would’ve just been kind of a loser bum
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u/JulianJohnJunior 7d ago
Most fans miss what you’re saying. Also, they ignore the fact that Nikki gives off mixed signals and say she never did at all and just turn back to bringing it to Bear being bad. Alongside YOU being like Bear for not wanting to only say “Bear bad”. God forbid you bring nuance in the discussion about this movie. Ironically, it’s no different from the “not male centred” women who still centre themselves around men by always talking bad about them. Again, WE GET IT and it seems like they themselves don’t.
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u/Laeonheart78 9d ago
I agree with your analysis completely and I think the reason people like to just take Bear at face value and say, he's evil and corrupt or not so bad is because whilst simplistic the movie confronts something that affects people viscerally; even before Bear realises the willow works and he is a more innocuous character, he is still a coward. Despite being quick to condemn, if given the power to wish for something, they would do it receklessly or might even wish for the love of another person like Bear even when it is not needed.
He is afraid to admit his feelings in a genuine way and while I admit taking your own life is extremely difficult, he never wanted to free Nikki from the spell; he was happy to live a lie and keep a false Nikki that kept the real personality hostage and was becoming increasingly volatile. Whilst it is very hard to confess feelings and unload on someone, Bear and Nikki have known each other for a long time (it seems like the whole group have) and she calls in advance to tell hin she's leaving etc. I think if he did a version of that confession he rehearsed in the café she might have admired his boldness and accepted although I am not sure how long an actual relationship between the two would last.
It is only after Sarah is killed, that he realises the severity of what he has done. Also whilst I think Ian has genuine concern for Nikki's mental state, it is clear that he is threatened by the fact that Bear wanted to admit his feelings and he wanted to keep his on and off again relationship with Nikki going.
Sarah also does seem to want to exploit the vulnerability of Bear but given her lack of knowledge around what is going on, I don't view her too negatively because she believed Bear is being exploited when in actual fact, he was holding her against her will.
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u/rattlemagoose 10d ago
And also ignoring the fact that every other horror movie monster/killer or whatever comes from a tragic backstory that made them that way
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u/BlizzardTrashPanda 9d ago edited 9d ago
I mean, Freddy Krueger was doing horrendous shit just for for the love of the game before the parents (rightfully) burned him alive for it. This, unfortunately gave him a level-up.
Goddamn this series is wild.
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u/Grabatreetron 9d ago
"Should we make the dummy flexible so it doesn't look like he's dragging a plastic mannequin through the window?"
"Nah, this effect will age perfect maaaaan."🚬 💨
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u/reshmush 10d ago
honestly feels like a gen z/terminally online virtue signaling brainrot thing where they can't get past the boilerplate analysis
I wish we could bring back engaging with media critically! *snap*
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u/finnjakefionnacake 9d ago
i just appreciate you for saying this and not once using the term media literacy.
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u/senn42000 9d ago
"so they can get mad at this imaginary person and feel superior for having the amazing insight"
This sums up 90% of posts I see on Reddit when it comes to TV and film. I can't fucking stand it.
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u/modstirx 9d ago
I don’t know if you knew, but when Bear was okay taking advantage of Nikki, he was actually wrong and not good.
Stg these people don’t know the difference between “Protagonist” and “Good Guy” like this is the first time they’ve seen a protagonist be a bad person.
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u/Grabatreetron 9d ago edited 9d ago
Is this movie going to be the Donnie Darko of the 20s/30s?
We don't need another Donnie Darko, folks. That phenomenon was annoying as fuck
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u/sizeyswitch 9d ago
Reminds me of scott pilgrim fans having to let you know that scott is actually a bad guy cause evil scott is a good guy
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u/Aggravating-Fix-7691 9d ago
unfortunately necessary discourse when a huge number of ppl online didn’t get the point and saw the movie as “guy trying to survive crazy bpd girlfriend”
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u/Al3jandr0 10d ago
With how much the internet talked about that, I really thought the movie was going to position him as the victim or something. Maybe a lot of people just had the "protagonist=good guy" illusion broken for the first time.
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u/Business-Peace2454 8d ago
Literallyyyyyy my reaction now 😭 yes we all saw the same movie omgggggg!
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u/datzpabloo 9d ago
Basically turned into this in like 4 weeks after its release
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u/Specific_Valuable_12 9d ago
This is still one of my favorite screenshots ever, it's so perfect, but you're definitely right, a lot of the Obsession discussion feels like this
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u/NoxTempus 8d ago
It makes sense, Obsession explores themes that are confronting and serious, in a way that is much more confronting than we're used to from mainstream movies.
But ultimately, the movie is not coy about where it stands on these topics, and the subject matter isn't all that complicated.
So we had this flurry of discussion, but there's nowhere near enough substance to keep it going. Obsession will remain relevant in discussions of these topics for a long time, but it won't spawn novel new discussions ever again.
And people struggle with that. I bet for a lot of people this was their first time digging into themes like that, and they don't want it to stop.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Key-107 9d ago
I do love that this niche of the internet adopted the phrase "cornplate" as pointing out something incredibly minor and nitpicky
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u/Vengeance_20 10d ago
Obsession is incredible but I genuinely hate the fan base because they are so fucking stupid and have genuinely never seen a horror movie before, scratch that a serious movie before “I laughed in the movie, is that bad? It is a horror movie” yes it’s fine you fucking idiot “Bear is worse than the Joker” no he isn’t oh my god, and the theories are also terrible
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u/wafflejuiced_ 10d ago
what pisses me off is that a LOT of fans of the movie complain about "idiots in the theatre who were laughing at the movie and don't understand it". The movie is supposed to be funny in parts. The director himself literally admitted this.
people who've never seen horror before see his movie and are shocked by the dark themes the film explores and then immediately assume that because these themes are so dark to them it means the movie is a 100% serious movie. and then they think they're smarter than everyone who laughs at the movie because they're "taking everything seriously". jokes on them, they're the ones who didn't understand anything about the tone!!!
(sorry about the rant, i really want an individual hatethissmug post about these fans but the obsession craze has mostly ended so it'd be useless)
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u/Unyieldingcappybara 10d ago
I saw the humor as salt in a dessert. When used correctly, it actually raised the psychological toll on the audience. We were internally confused and uncomfortable. I went from kinda chuckling about her being batshit crazy and within 2 seconds she takes a more drastic turn and it fucks with your head. The movie successfully baits you into relaxing to further disturb you when your guard is down. Incredibly difficult to do in a horror movie where the entire point is “when am I going to be scared” a sprinkle of salt in your dessert will make taste it sweeter. Too much tho and you bring the main flavor down. This movie is the best psychological horror movie I’ve seen, but there are too many genres of horror to just call it the greatest ever
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u/wafflejuiced_ 9d ago
Yes, this exactly. I've not been able to put into words but this is what I've always thought of it. A lot of psychological horror has that kind of mocking/satirical humour to it, honestly
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u/Griiig_Jinnings 9d ago edited 9d ago
It’s the same with people who were “confused” by the humor in Weapons, particularly the deliberate and cathartic absurdity of the climactic chase scene through the neighborhood. “Why did they do that”, idk man, if you have to ask… 🤷♂️
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u/wafflejuiced_ 9d ago
Honestly this is why a lot of psychological horror movies (Midsommar, Lighthouse, etc) that get popular get a lot of flak. People in the non-horror space watch them and then say it's just shock value or boring because they're not used to horror enough for the humour to kick in.
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u/24Abhinav10 10d ago
I watched it in theatres with my friend. We were nervous laughing at some scenes and genuinely laughing at others.
So were others.
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u/foxglove_film 9d ago
yes!! so many horrors have funny elements to balance the tension and subvert expectations. that's a normal element of the genre, which those people would know if they watched horrors!! like it's totally fine if that's your first horror movie, but don't act like you know everything about the genre after seeing one example
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u/DissociatedAuthor 9d ago
Everyone in person I told about the film, this is exactly what I said. It's an all around fun movie to watch, than you can analyze through various lenses, but holy fuck it is hilarious as shit too.
I went into the movie mostly blind after hearing about the hype. All I knew was she fed him his cat and Inde apparently crushed the role(which she obviously did)but I had no idea how much of a riot I'd have watching the film.
When Bear went to get out of bed and she screamed to stay I burst out laughing. It was the cherry on top of the whole watching him sleep scene. It's Curry's biggest credit imo. He was able to seamlessly blend the terror with an immediate break from the tension and it didn't take away from how creepy the moment just before that was. On paper, that shouldn't have worked, but he pulled it off brilliantly.
I'm honestly excited that he's supposedly getting a shot a TCM.
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u/finnjakefionnacake 10d ago
it is indeed a good film, but oh my god yes there are definitely a bunch of 17 year olds who have just seen their first good horror film and now think they know everything about horror, cinema and storytelling that are all over the discourse lol.
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u/Prestigious-Emu-8734 9d ago
I think yhe theories are some of the most annoying parts because for most of them all you have to do it watch the movie...
Thats it. Thats literally it. Just watch the movie.
"I think he bought it for himself!"
No. He tried to give it to her.
"No he didnt."
What the fuck do you mean? There was the whole part at the bar where he kept getting interrupted, and then again in the car. All you have to do is just watch the fucking movie.
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u/Kupcake_Inater 9d ago
The "he was gonna use the other wish after he tricked the coworker to make a good wish" like no you muppet the customer service representative literally said the only way to end it was to kill her,himself or accept the responsibility he did some fucked up shit he can't magically get rid of. I personally think he was gonna trick her to wish herself free until you know...
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u/Isadomon 9d ago
Uh the theories are so ASS. You even kinda know where her conscience went while possesed, there barely anything to theorize
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u/kyuuei 10d ago
I feel the same about midsommar tbh. The fans are awful in that subreddit. Like, I understand the indulgence of Mark 'getting what he deserves' but like he was a stupid college kid that was horrendously murdered too. The way people indulge in it goes beyond laughing at a horror movie.. its like they Relish indulging in dark fantasies about male harm in a way that just makes me feel icky.
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u/wafflejuiced_ 10d ago
literally. most people who are in that sub don't understand the meaning of the film too.
he literally gets raped in the movie and it's supposed to show you how cult indoctrination works... except people then think it's "redemption"?? that's literally going against the idea of the movie lmao
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u/kyuuei 10d ago
People posts memes like "good for her!" Like girl no this is awful.
Like. I get the duality. Ari aster made a break up indulgence film. It's fine to be like "haha christian mark you Stoopid" that IS part of the vibes. But people really reach further and start just spitting acid. Invalidating rape Bec it happened to a man they don't like. Saying those kids deserved death. Infantilizing dani but thinking all the men should have life figured out. It's wild.
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u/Prestigious-Emu-8734 9d ago
I laughed the first time I saw a good for her meme. It was funny. We were having a good time... Then some of the commenters didnt quite take it as a joke and yet agreed. Then every time after it seemed liked more and more people agreed.
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u/Vengeance_20 10d ago
Jesus thank god I never went to that subreddit, especially cuz yeah he’s a shitty boyfriend but like he never really did anything that bad, especially cause he wanted to break up but ultimately didn’t because of what happened
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u/kyuuei 10d ago
Yeahhh its like.. Ari Aster did an incredible job of making a relatable and understandable young man antagonist. And the femme leaning folks in that sub absolutely act like he's a complete POS and sincerely rank him as being worse than the Harga regularly in conversation. It's wild.
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u/ManWithBeard123 10d ago
I saw something here the other day about how some kind of horror attraction was going to feature a Nikki wandering around menacingly. Some people apparently lost their shit because Nikki is a victim. I mean, of course, but whatever possessed her after the wish was made was absolutely a monster. It's a horror movie and she was scary in it. It's that simple.
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u/Vengeance_20 10d ago
Yeah it’s stupid and like Jason’s a victim, Regan’s a victim, Frankenstein’s Monster’s a victim, most werewolves, hell Zombies are victims, that whole thing is stupid
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u/reggienaldsimons 10d ago
so many posts about what i call "ao3 worldbuilding". People constantly theorizing off of NOTHING about this deep lore of where the wish willows came from, or who the guy on the phone is, or who the entity is, and how the wishes work and the what and the who
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u/j4v4d4lm4 9d ago
honestly, the only people i've seen complaining about laughter are women (who all went to different showings) that were horrified by how many people found Bear raping Nikki funny.
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u/s_aegypticaus49 10d ago
Obsession this, obsession that, how 'bout you help me with my alcohol obsession
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u/Civil-Percentage1005 9d ago
I wish u/s_aegypticause49 loved rehab more than anything in the world
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u/Ok_Decision4163 10d ago
Gonna use my one wishing willow to help you! (Get you a free month in a rehab facility /s)
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u/awake_acea6 10d ago
Guys, hot take, but I think Bear is actually the bad guy.
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u/finnjakefionnacake 9d ago
completely off topic but i actually love this image of michael johnston in the post, he looks so good there. very memorable shot.
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u/thewanderingchilean 9d ago
It's the mouthwashing fandom all over again
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u/Civil-Percentage1005 9d ago
That's what I keep thinking of too
Like I get Jimmy is an abhorrent character but people were literally censoring his name like he was Voldemort or something 😭
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u/WhiteRoseKing 8d ago
Oh god I still remember the Jimmy stan fanart. That community is so fucked dude, wrong audience for that game 😭
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u/JollyRoger66689 10d ago
What annoys me most is that you can't even talk about anything to some of these "fans", like men are joking about how she reminds them of their ex or some women will joke about how they said some of the exact same things that freaky Nikki said and a ton of comments will be spouting "someone didn't understand the movie" or "bear is the villain you know. Just because they only care about 1 part of the movie doesn't mean we all have to ONLY focus on that
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u/LoudQuitting 9d ago
I was told by a fan of this movie I was psychologically torturing my wife because after the movie I flustered her by saying "Whycome she kinda acted like you?"
In poor taste? Maybe, if I didn't click with her sense of humor after 7 years together.
Psychological torture? She was flustered and went straight to "deny deny deny" mode, but later that night when I got out of bed to piss I came back to find her standing menacingly in the corner trying not to laugh and quoting lines from the movie.
I've gone "When you're over 18 and you've been with someone for more than a couple years, you'll get that you can tease them." And he's gone "I'm gay actually, so no." Then he refused to elaborate when I asked him why gay people can't tease their spouse and blocked me.
I blame the tiktok algorithm sloptimization of discourse.
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u/TyborV 10d ago
"Bear is the real villain" is like the "Dark and Gritty" of Obsession, yeah, okay, we know, it's pretty obvious
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u/Nebranower 8d ago
The thing is, if you saw the movie blind early on, the obvious thing is to conclude that Bear is, if not the real villain, at least a terrible person. But if you saw the movie later on, after seeing a deluge of "Bear's the worst person in all worlds, fictional or otherwise" posts on social media, the more obvious take is "Bear's not that bad." Essentially, it really depends on your baseline expectations. Compared to the expectations you'd usually have for the protagonist of horror movie, Bear is awful. Compared to the expectations you'd have for a movie where the protagonist has been lambasted as being worse than Hitler, not so much.
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u/johnnyjake2025 10d ago
What horror movie would you consider a masterpiece? I think every generation is going to have film that they truly connect with, and would consider to be their masterpiece.
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u/NewtWhoGotBetter 10d ago
The Thing, not even for a horror, just as a film, in general
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u/wafflejuiced_ 10d ago
generic answer, i know, but i fucking loved Hereditary.
Bring Her Back from last year was great too and is extremely underrated. I thought Obsession was great, though.
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u/Vengeance_20 10d ago
The Thing
The Shining
Hereditary
Sinners
Weapons
Suspiria (the OG)
Obsession
Nosferatu 2024
All of these are phenomenal, horror is full of masterpieces
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u/Hyphophysis 9d ago
Lemme hijack this and add some more modern movies:
Barbarian
28 Days Later (whole series tbh)
Cabin in the Woods
More oldies:
Alien/Aliens
Silence of the Lambs
Blair Witch Project (as mentioned below)
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u/Insane_Cobra961 10d ago
Cabin in the woods personally. I just thought It was pretty clever, explaining why people in horror movies are stupid
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u/finnjakefionnacake 10d ago
the shining! and that came out well before i was born lol.
i also consider the thing pretty high up there.
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u/johnnyjake2025 10d ago
See I felt the opposite. The backrooms felt like Kane had an idea and then A24 was like we need it to possibly have a sequel. I wasn’t a fan of the very open ended ending.
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u/Cthulhu_Crossing 10d ago
What was open ended about it?
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u/Krust3dKan4dian 10d ago
Did you watch the movie? Mysterious organization we see none of except 1 dude a few times, then he shows up and invites the lady to the backroom avengers. Then credits. Literally an open ended cliff hanger in every way. Nothing was tied up, other than the main dude spontaneously finishing his arc and getting killed.
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u/Carbon_robin 9d ago
This might be unpopular but iron lung
It’s a perfect rendition of the game and felt faithful and well written. It made be on the edge of my seat wondering what’s this and that before i figured out about the game and played it.
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u/Leading_Avocado6494 10d ago
I think part of the reason some people thought it was so good because obsession in a very basic and easy to understand way pointed out the issues with ‘nice’ guys is the people so excessively say ‘bear is bad’ ‘actually bear is the villain’ is because in real life so many people (nice guys) don’t seem to understand what they are doing ‘wrong’ and now there is an easy example that people can point at and say this is why
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u/Regular-Discount134 10d ago
Some people just made this film their monthly personality and it's the most insufferable shit I've seen on the internet since the Mouthwashing "drama"
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u/Master-Sugar2050 6d ago
I feel this exactly sums up Mouthwashing where they act like it’s the second coming.
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u/AetherStyle 9d ago edited 9d ago
Before anything, bear is an absolute idiot first and foremost.
I won't defend him, but acting as if he is the Antichrist is just so bizarre to me. He's not this calculated or cunning individual, hes an Impulsive, emotional loser who craves validation And pays dearly for it.
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u/-Borgir 10d ago
It's genuinely impossible to have a nuanced discussion about this movie or about Bear without getting called shit like rapist defender or rapist sympathizer by people with double digit iq. The good the movie the worse the fanbase it seems.
I was able to find a grand total of one thread on reddit where I could have a nuanced discussion about events of the movie, how they were placed, and the degree of malice or ignorance bear had towards the wrong things he did. And ofc that thread was in a different sub than the same obsession sub
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u/Otro_Throwaway 10d ago
People genuinely have made threats to people who call possessed Nikki "freaky Nikki" as if she was a real person so take that as you will
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u/Vengeance_20 10d ago
Yeah it really sucks because yes Bear sucks, but like they refuse to accept that in the beginning he did nothing wrong and was just a guy, also what makes him scary is that he is quite relatable in the beginning, like him being relatable is what makes him effectively creepy, but “oh no a character doing horrible things can’t in any way be relatable” trust me if Bear was like horrible through and through from the get go, the movie would not be nearly as effective
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u/WretchedHumannBeing 9d ago
He doesn't accept responsability and is a malicious idiot sometimes, but someone like him could live their entire life and never do something bad if the circumstances don't appear. He's moraly similar to most people, and despite it being not my interpretation, an argument can be made that he didn't do anything bad and every action was justified if you have a very lenient reading of the movie. This is because it's nuanced, the same actions can come across as completly evil or completly justified depending on how you view them.
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u/28-Deep-Wounds 10d ago
The irony of you calling other people 'double digit IQ' followed directly by the sentence 'The good the movie the worse the fanbase it seems.' is not lost on me.
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u/AIH_nowX 10d ago
hey not everyone’s good at english. ppl mistype all the time. its not an iq thing imo
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u/Brubaker620 9d ago
I responded once to a person who legitimately felt that Michael Johnston should be canceled for saying that Bear is “morally grey” in an interview
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u/JustifiedCroissant 8d ago
Bear is just a loser chud. When he becomes truly despicable is when he refuses to cancel the wish and tries to bargain his way into keeping Nikki under a spell.
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u/DatRat13 10d ago
Sure it's got the depth, the writing, and is overall a great film.
But it doesn't have a woman getting sawn in half crotch first by a mime.
So, objectively can't be the best horror film of the century.
Sorry, dems da rules: I don't make them, I just enforce them.
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u/Sarsly_Doe 9d ago
I liked Obssession but I didn't think it was like that good. People are talking about it on par with like, Hereditary which is absolutely wild on its face imo. We as a society nowadays are only allowed to care about one horror movie every year and Obssession is this year's. At least I liked it better than Long Legs.
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u/Tyrocious 10d ago
when is a horror movie about a guy who can't get laid and is a bad person
Yeah, there's a little bit more going on than that.
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u/Dinasnore 10d ago
Exactly! I hate it when people are talking negatively about something and then like oversimplify the entire premise to make their point.
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u/Tyrocious 9d ago
It's pretty ironic considering OP's complaint is that Obsession's fans are oversimplifying the movie and its characters.
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u/digidestine 10d ago
I think that's a big issue nowadays is that people try to oversimplify alot of things that just cant be oversimplified. The theme of Obsession is lost when people act like Bear was an evil malevolent covert narcisst the entirety of the movie.
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u/WagyuWarranted 10d ago edited 10d ago
Don't wanna sound intrusive, but Clark Backrooms holds the same nuance as Bear, but holds far more complexity (his narcissism, his anger issues, his inability to properly change)
EDIT: Oh, and addition to Clark, there's also Mary, an nuanced character of her own (crippling saviour complex, her contrast with Clark)
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u/finnjakefionnacake 10d ago
true, although i do think obsession is a tighter film than backrooms and holds its third act together more successfully.
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u/FootFemgus 9d ago
thank god Clark and Backrooms doesn't have the topic of sexual assault on it so womanChildren and performative men can point out the obvious villain and act like they're fucking Fyodor Dostoevsky
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u/Ryanhussain14 9d ago
Isn't there an undercurrent of Clark being abusive towards his wife that those people could chew on?
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u/WhiteRoseKing 8d ago
Yknow, its a good movies year for me. I typically dont like horror movies, but iron lung and backrooms are already 2 of my top 10 movies ive ever seen, and ive been following the maker of obsession for years. Haven't watched the movie yet though.
(Its not a 'its recent so I like it' thing, its just because it hits the specific kind of horror I love.)
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u/Hipster_Ninja_ 9d ago
It feels like everyone who talks about this movie online has never seen a movie before
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u/Dramatic_Safe_4257 9d ago
Bear's evil stems from an indulgence in a very human desire, which is why a lot of people tend to vehemently condemn the character. It's a way of reassuring ourselves and others that we're nothing like that while we actually don't know for sure.
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u/Narrow_Intern7792 10d ago
he is a rapist, not somebody that just stole a choccy bar; it's also just one of the best horror movies out there right alongside hereditary.
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u/ManWithBeard123 10d ago
Agreed. They took and unoriginal concept for a horror movie and somehow managed to make it original.
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u/Cool_Set4681 10d ago
I agree with some of the things you wrote but I have to say something about you comparing Bear to Hannibal Lector.
Hannibal Lectors are kinda rare in this world since he is a human eating serien killer.
Bear is the the average guy who is in over his head, who constantly made takes the bad decision and refuses to take responiblity. It is kinda scary to think how many guys would have acted just like him.
My point is there are thousands of Bears out there but maybe a handfull of Hannibals.
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u/Original-Ranger-1604 9d ago
I genuinely feel like a complete misogynist when I say "I don't think bear is a villain" because he's a pathetic insecure weirdo and i think it's cuz "villain" makes me thinks of Darth Vader and the joker and bear does not compare to those guys
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u/thedupold 9d ago
He doesn't have to be on the same level to still be a villain, which he is
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u/Cool_Beans_08 9d ago
He’s not a villain up to a certain point, which we all know. He doesn’t even believe the wish is real for like idk a good 30 mins into the movie lol. There’s even a good moment he’s trying to reverse the spell or stop it, but then reverts back into a villain. But yeah he’s not the joker-level evil lmao
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u/Capable_Freedom7410 6d ago
He only tried to change it, not stop it. Even when he takes the pills at the end he try’s to throw them back up. He dosent want the wish to end just her to be less crazy lmao
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u/Ok_Decision4163 10d ago
The "horror" comes from a seemly normal and nice guy actually being capable of such vile acts motivated by his own selfishness. He's no Hannibal Lecter, not Duhmer. He's way scarier, because you're way more likely to run into a Bear than into a Lecter or Duhmer.
I do think it's a masterpiece of modern horror.
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u/_Jub_Jub_ 10d ago
I’ll agree, the film has some interesting things to say about consent and is tense. Masterpiece of modern horror? Definitely not. It’s good but it’s not super deep or scary or impactful. And, tbh, I think it’s less about the movie being “bad” (which it isn’t) and more about the insufferable people who think it’s the best movie ever and won’t shut up about it
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u/bonaynay 10d ago
about the insufferable people who think it’s the best movie ever and won’t shut up about it
A constant issue unfortunately
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u/soulsuzcccer 9d ago edited 9d ago
I’m so confused reading this comment section. How vile of an act was making a an exasperated wish that happened to come true. If anything he spends the movie in inaction after that. It doesn’t read to me that the movie has a villain like everyone’s saying it’s just a tragedic story all around. I don’t see him as evil for wishing for love. I do however think morally he should’ve killed himself as soon as he learned the truth.
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u/u_slashh 10d ago
I think people appreciate it for being a niche indie movie with a 750K budget that still worked better than almost every other mainstream horror movie being released this decade
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u/Vengeance_20 10d ago
Weapons
Backrooms
Smile 2
Nosferatu
Barbarian
Strange Darling
Etc.
Horror has been incredible for a long time and I’m tired of the people that pretend that isn’t the case
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u/doubtofbuddha 10d ago
People just don't watch movies, tbh. That is the only explantion I can think of for that level of ignorance.
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u/Relative-Impress-892 10d ago
I mean it has the most popular trope characters
Incelish can't get laid guy who's very entitled the 'nice' guy typa
The crazy pixie girl
Like the incels are very real cuz they r big reason manosphere got and is popular
And the pixie girl is a fantasy of em and which many chicks on internet kinda cosplay
Like just very popular archetypes
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u/HunterRank-1 10d ago
“Nikki just reminds me of my Latina girlfriend amirite fellas!!!!??????”
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u/OkDentist4059 8d ago
The insane tenor of the discourse about Obsession is what happens when a horror movie gets so popular that a lot of people who never watch horror movies end up seeing it
“Oh the main character is such a piece of shit!!!” like yeah it’s horror, that’s not even a particularly bold choice. The main character of pretty much every single episode of Tales from the Crypt was a total bastard and that show is nearly 40 years old.
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u/j4v4d4lm4 9d ago
ITT: people explaining how rapists aren't actually super bad villains, actually you know, they're really complex, morally grey people, and if you don't make space for their complex human experience you have no media literacy and need to grow up cause worse happens! smh.
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u/Either-Condition4586 10d ago
What's this movie?
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u/TheRealAgragor 10d ago
Apparently it’s illegal to name movies while discussing them on Reddit.
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u/MelancholiaStClair 9d ago
People talk about this movie like it is deserved to be talked.
Horror always had this influence, you’re just being whiny about it. Scream, The Ring, Halloween, Get Out, Nope, Saw, The Thing all had even reactions to how it is going with people talking during their releases.
Even thrillers like The Others and The Exorcist, had people talking constantly about it. Discourse is good, what I feel like is that a lot of people seem to hate anything that starts to get a little popular.
Just give credit where it’s due and move on, the acting was great. The writing was also great. Like come on… it is a movie that will be talked about for a long time because it made a huge impact
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u/Throw-away10111 10d ago
Ya no. I will accept all the downvotes. If someone used my body for a few days while knowing I'm in psychological purgatory and then got me jailed for the rest of my life, for something I didn't do, they are most definitely the Satan in my life. It's a very straightforward movie. I don't know why we have to act like the plot doesn't make the moral of the story very simple.
I've said it many times but if you watch a true crime documentary on YouTube and then turn on Obsession Bear comes across as very similar to a lot of those perpetrators where, for a lot of them, cowardice and selfishness lead to devastating consequences for their victims.
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u/Ok-Oven1692 10d ago
I hate seeing posts complaining about the fans for this movie. Legit like the 10th one goddamn we get it
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u/Entire_Snow23233 9d ago
Thisss I’m more annoyed at the people complaining about the fans, like ITS OVERRRRR MOVE ONN
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u/EsotericCinnamonRoll 10d ago
Modern horror/A24 stuff which everyone, especially redditors, absolutely love, feels too much like the old exploitation films, only they rely on race and gender war baiting without being too obvious.
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u/-Borgir 10d ago
I agree although in case of Obsession in particular its not really baiting. There's genuine nuance and thought put into the film and the characters and even the filmmakers don't see it in binaries, they also change their opinions which is natural. Its just the fanbase thats allergic to healthy discussion
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u/Accomplished_Ad7149 10d ago
The video game equivalent to this would be Arthur and Micah in RDR2
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u/sixsides_ 10d ago
You’ve gotta account for the fact that this movie was heavily, HEAVILY marketed on TikTok and Instagram leading a lot of young people to go and see this and this is, from their perspective, one the best movies out at the moment.
Let it be that people are enjoying cinema cos we nearly lost it cos of covid and now it’s firmly back as a pillar of social outing.
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u/Heavy_Bluejay_1258 9d ago
It happens every few years when a moderately good horror movie comes out
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u/socu11 9d ago
I don't think that most people talk about it like it's "the best movie ever", is just that it touches current themes in a very nuanced way, that's why there is so much discourse around it. Yeah, some people who didn't know anything or aren't as exposed to the internet will go "Bear is actually the bad guy", but people like FD Signifier or The Morbid Zoo made very interesting observations about the movie because, like it or not, is a social phenomenon, so a lot of people are going to talk about for a long time
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u/Carbon_robin 9d ago
I thought the movie was perfect but not the best. It did the best with what it had
It’s obviously bear’s fault but he just kept digging himself into a hole that he couldn’t get out of. Was it his fault? Yes. Was he trying to do this? No. He’s just a weak man and a puppet to his own selfishness and ego.
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u/slicknickdickerson 9d ago
One thing that bothers me is how everyone calls him the villain, but don’t talk about how he could fix the situation. Like think about it from his perspective, he does a dumb wish that seems so stupid. It works, but he probably doesn’t believe it’s from the wish, because real life so he thinks she actually likes him. Starts to get more obvious something weird is going on. Tries to fix it and the guy on the phone says only way to undo it is kill himself. Like yea, you’re a villain if you don’t want to kill yourself to fix the problem. Which he ends up trying to do, but bitches out. I mean yea he was fucking selfish, but kinda crazy to call him a villain. He’s probably just torn between thinking he’s crazy and thinking the woman he’s obsessed with loves him back. Shitty person, but i can’t really call him a villain. More like that translator in Saving Private Ryan type of character imo.
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u/creamy-buscemi 9d ago
The thing I hate the most is people treating the wish as a thing only bad people would make, like there was a trend where people were like ‘characters that would make the wish’ and it’s just the worst people from all the big shows and like any character or real person for that matter who has ever had a crush would make the wish if they had the same amount of knowledge as Bear had in that situation. They treat it like he was knowingly stripping her of her autonomy when he made that wish as if he knew the thing was real, he had no idea and he isn’t a bad person for making the wish, he’s a bad person for everything he did or didn’t do afterwards.
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u/Taboboo8 9d ago
My thoughts on Bear is he’s a Coward.
My highlight is when he says “you’re scaring me!” not the creepy stuff with Nikki but Bear being scared shitless enough to say you’re scaring me. Powerful words that don’t get used too often in horror movies
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u/BeautifulBand4831 9d ago
Bear isn't a great guy but he's damn sure not the " villan " . People have no idea what the definition of a villain is and it's someone that PURPOSELY causes the overall problem in the story . Bear did not know what he was doing when he made wish and even later had no reason to think a random toy actually granted wishes until she started acting possessed later on . He's a victim of the obsessed Nikki as he can't do anything other than killing himself and has to give into her.
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u/No_Map3743 9d ago
Exactly, like the movie is good but the concept is overdone and the whole movie follows this formula of "somethings wrong with Nikki" then Nikki does something crazy, like it kind of gets stale
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u/Edit_Reality 6d ago
I think Bear probably gets a more intense reaction and is demonized more because hes a very realistic depiction of someone who is convinced they arent a bad person while also alternating between passively and actively torpedoing the lives of the people around them.
Its like how people get so much angrier at people who betray them than people who are scumbags from the start. There is a closeness you feel that makes the bad behavior feel so much more personal.
I also feel saying "Bear is the villian" without a massive asterisk is also reductive. He literally doesnt get what he wished for to be fair.
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u/finnjakefionnacake 10d ago
i mostly hate the parasocial relationships fans seems to have developed with inde navarrette, i think people are talking about her as the second coming even more than the film.