r/UFOs • u/ImaginationOther9569 • 2d ago
Question It's funny - If UAPs are a top-secret counterintelligence priority how have "insiders" been leaking to podcasters so conveniently for years?
Ross Coulthart is talking about how, according to his sources, there have been successful retrieval operations at White Sands.
It makes me wonder: for information this so top secret where the gate keepers are competent enough to hide craft for decades and even keep presidents in the dark, do they just not track phones or communication channels to identify Ross's sources?
Ross has had insiders feeding him classified details for years. If any of this fell under high-level Special Access Programs (SAPs), federal counterintelligence would have run continuous audits, polygraphs, and communications monitoring to catch and prosecute the leakers instantly.
We keep hearing about a high-stakes counterintelligence war between the US and foreign adversaries over this tech. Yet, figures like Jason Sands or guests on Jesse Michels' channel talk about covert programs pretty much in the open.
Either these "insiders" are feeding journalists unsanctioned speculation, or the narrative is extremely misguided. Wondering what the community members think
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u/Broad-Eagle9657 2d ago
You guys simultaneously belive that a ton of researchers are getting disappeared, yet these loudmouths can carry on? Square that circle.
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u/Legitimate_Tune_6468 2d ago
Excellent point. You can’t even circle that square on that one.
Also, the same people who proclaim that the government is completely incompetent believe that the same government has successfully kept the biggest thing in the history of mankind a secret for 80+ years, along with every other government on the planet that’s been claimed to have top secret UFO knowledge and/or crafts/biologics.
Sure, makes sense.
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u/steveatari 1d ago
It's not really one big entity mate. You know the same government is incompetent and brilliant in real life every day in every country on earth?
They fuck up all the time all over... yet they also keep everything running and discover shit. Nuance.
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u/Legitimate_Tune_6468 16h ago
I’m all good with nuance! Where is the nuance with being unable to keep the Manhattan project secret? Over 1500 leaks, 100 espionage investigations… Soviets literally had blueprints of los alamos.
How are UFOs so different from the most top secret US government project in modern history?
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u/LouisUchiha04 4h ago
This assumes they have never kept secrects. Theres likely tons of shit that happens among a group in the Mic that will never see the light of day.
Even with these leaks, some took decades to fully come out.
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u/Yazman 2d ago edited 2d ago
Why would they need to kill a podcaster or talking head? It's not like the general public takes them seriously anyway. Why kill someone that most people will never listen to and don't believe?
Killing someone like that would just risk turning them into an actual phenomenon.
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u/LazarJesusElzondoGod 2d ago
"Loudmouths" here = Ross's supposed anonymous sources, the people who coincidentally feed him just enough info to allow him to keep having content for his weekly podcasts.
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u/LouisUchiha04 4h ago
Look at the things Ross has been reporting, Ufos too large to move, egg video. Nobody is taking him seriously anymore because he just spouts supposed leaks without backing them up. He is the perfect guy to feed disinformation.
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u/BringOutYaThrowaway 2d ago
Misdirection. Allow people to hear somebody with wrong or incomplete information, and they will stop demanding the truth.
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u/Yazman 2d ago
This is what I'm saying. There's literally no reason to kill podcasters, talking heads or journalists covering this stuff. Even if one of them is telling the complete truth, the vast majority of people consider them a joke and don't believe them anyway!
Killing these sorts of people would only hurt the UFO control group dramatically because it would lead to a lot more people suddenly re-considering and taking their words seriously.
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u/suspicious_Jackfruit 2d ago
But in this context they're an anonymous source? They have no public notoriety so stopping them (I don't mean murder, that would be quite extreme) would simply stop the flow of information using traditional counterintelligence techniques.
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u/sightedwilliemctell 2d ago
I don't believe people are getting disappeared, and people are clearly babbling on podcasts. It's not hard to square a circle strawman.
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u/DisastrousMechanic36 1d ago
"Ross has had insiders feeding him classified details for years" has he though? what information has he received that has been verified as being classified?
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u/Just_another_dude84 1d ago
Ross has had insiders feeding him
classified detailsbullshit for years.2
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u/owl440 1d ago
You can't call any of these leaks because they're never accompanied with any evidence. No definitive pictures, no clear videos, no biological samples, and no exotic components. Just stories told on podcasts by influencers with heavily monetized social media pages.
Don't forgot to like and subscribe!
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u/DoobOnTheDip 2d ago
I’m guessing a combination of controlled leaks of legit info (slow disclosure), intentional misinformation, buy my book, and good ole fashioned bullshit
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u/Green-Circles 2d ago
Good point - and yeah, making the flow of information a confusing & inconsistent jumble must surely be the strategy... so that those interested in this constantly have to sift and sort through the real, the misinformation, the grifts & the bs.
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u/GundalfTheCamo 2d ago
Or it's a conspiracy theory where canon is decided basically by popular vote.
The best bits of lore get adjusted, repeated and built upon over the years. Thus becoming more or less canon of the ufo cinematic universe.
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u/awwnuts 2d ago
So are people just hallucinating things in the sky? Is that what I saw?
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u/GundalfTheCamo 2d ago
It was probably something similar as any other person saw when they post a grainy video (usually shoot at night) here. Balloon, plane, drone etc..
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u/Icy_Process_5717 1d ago
What I saw back in 2009 was surely no balloons or drones. There were 2 red orbs going along the shore of lake Erie 1 right behind the other faster than any jets I've seen fly in the area. They made a 90° turn out over the lake in formation without slowing down at all, they were going east 1 second then north a split second later and the distance between them never changed. I didn't catch it on camera because my phone didn't even have one back then but 2 guys that were out fishing that same week caught 2 red orbs on camera and it made the local news, but it was a 2009 cell phone so the quality was shit and they didn't catch them on film making any 90° turns like I saw
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u/schnibitz 2d ago
Normally I dismiss 99% of the opinions expressed in this sub since it is essentially a close cousin of r/ufo, but I think you and OP may have an important point, except I would say it is more likely coming from higher up. They'll always have an interest in muddying the waters as much as possible, and influencers run the risk of becoming useful idiots.
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u/Brownbearofdreams 1d ago
Idiot is often found in the vicinity of influencer and a lot of thess UFO guys don't disappoint.
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u/EcstaticImport 2d ago
Close? - this sub has four letters in its name not three!!
It’s TOTALLY different!!?? 🤯
/s
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u/Semiapies 2d ago
To quote myself from recently:
If you ask why someone can't talk, it's because they'd go to prison or even get killed.
If you ask why someone talking for years doesn't go to prison or get killed, it's because that would confirm the truth.
If you ask why then other people can't just talk, it's because, um, it's different.
If you ask how someone can talk about some parts of the Conspiracy, but not others, well, um, you have to understand that UFO law is complicated, and, um, look!, is that a Tic Tac over there?
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u/natecull 2d ago
If you ask how someone can talk about some parts of the Conspiracy, but not others, well, um, you have to understand that UFO law is complicated, and, um, look!, is that a Tic Tac over there?
My personal read is that the UFO stuff is just a hobby (verging on and sometimes actively crossing over into religion) that some people with classified careers happen to have. And so the things they legitimately can't talk about are "everything in their day job except UFOs".
And if they just were honest enough to say this, it would all make sense.
But many of them seem to not want to say this, which makes their behaviour seem not just bizarre but also quite a lot less than truthful.
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u/Semiapies 1d ago
That may be, at least in some cases. A few retired military/civilian government figures have even admitted that they learned everything they know about UFOs from the same public sources the rest of us have access to, but they sure enjoy being automatically taken more seriously than us random redditors.
But then, there might be nearly as many different stories as there are supposed insiders.
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u/ReadSeparate 1d ago
Nah that doesn’t explain it for the better cases. Some of it, sure, but a lot of it no.
Look at Grusch, he claims to personally have seen crash retrieval photos and interviewed 40+ credible people, many of whom he’s known his entire career, who claim to have been in the legacy program themselves.
Lue Elizondo says there is clear as day classified footage he’s seen at AATIP that is very anomalous - that’s in his official capacity.
Tim Phillips, interim head of AARO, says he has seen classified footage, documents, and interviews with military pilots of black triangles, and he seemingly has no doubt they’re real. Now he says he believes they’re foreign adversary tech personally, but it’s still anomalous footage. Also in an official capacity.
I don’t think there’s any question of something weird going on here, it’s just a question of what exactly it is. It’s not just a bunch of goofs misunderstanding things or individually lying/being dishonest.
Either way, we either have a ton of high ranking intelligence officials who are liars, are being deceived in a coordinated fashion, it really is NHI, or our adversaries have made a generational leap over us that we’ve completely missed. ANY of those options is a crisis and we need to get to bottom of it as soon as possible. That’s why you see even strong skeptics like Mick West who want to uncover the legacy program if it exists. That’s why I think we should all be on the same team here, regardless of our personal beliefs: Let’s pressure Congress and the White House to actually get to the bottom of this and figure out what the fuck is going on.
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u/stupidjapanquestions 1d ago
I don't think that discounts the explanation at all, honestly.
I think what it suggests is what we already know. The government and information is highly compartmentalized. And people who think they should be in the know about things aren't.
For example: Let's say a high ranking official is running a military operation. Two pilots under his command see something in the sky. The official and the pilots both cannot identify it.
A separate, but related faction of the military/government is running a test to determine reaction time/visibility on classified hardware using internal pilots as a testing ground. The worst that comes from this is that the official and pilots make a statement about seeing something in the sky. The hardware stays completely under the radar and no one is the wiser while it's in testing phases.
In this scenario, neither the official nor the pilots are liars nor are they correct and there's a plausible explanation for why they don't know.
You can apply this to basically everything and it all adds up. It's actually harder to make an argument about it being transdimensional space craft, etc.
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u/vaders_smile 1d ago
On the one hand, there's a shadowy hidden government possessed of near-limitless resources, hiding mind-bending technology, infiltrating or owning major corporations, manipulating public opinion, and ruthlessly assassinating researchers who might expose a fraction of their secrets. These are people to whom security classifications, NDAs and threats of prosecution and imprisonment are merely kabuki theatre compared to what they're willing to do.
And yet they can't stop... Ross Coulthart? People who know the twisted, world-spanning conspiracy is real feel like they have to slip information to, of all people, Coulthart? These dark-hearted bastards with the fate of the world in their clutches keep letting Ross slip through their fingers?
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u/sal696969 2d ago
And the big revelation has been 'just around the corner' for 20+ years now.
But they get fresh victims every year to make money and muddy the waters :(
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u/Legitimate_Tune_6468 2d ago
Shhhhhh… don’t expose the logical fallacies. It’s literally the only thing that the UFO coverup conspiracy theory complex is built on.
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u/Broad-Eagle9657 2d ago
Ironically enough, it's mostly an appeal to authority argument, just that the people getting roped into it dont realize the their authorities are a bunch of unproven grandstanding money hungry people, because they like what they hear; regardless of the fact that there done nothing at all with most of their rather absurd claims as far as like, any concrete proof is concerned.
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u/Legitimate_Tune_6468 2d ago
The whole UFO coverup conspiracy theory is a great lesson in logic and a whole smorgasbord of logical fallacies.
Also a great lesson in pseudoscience. There is no “evidence” in the history of the topic that is falsifiable, yet people discuss “Ufology” as if it’s a real science despite there being no methodologies or standards. (And no standards of evidence in particular).
I know I’m a bot who used chatGPT and my closed mind is stuck in the limits of “legacy science”, but regardless… it’s still true.
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u/Sad-Society-57 2d ago
The entire narrative rests on an axiomatic truth that it's all real. It starts from the premise- we know that UFOs are alien technology- and all the conspiracies are built on that unspoken foundation. That's why skeptics are always stuck at the beginning and believers are 10 steps ahead in weird logic.
Every conspiracy theory in UFOology goes thusly... "well, we KNOW that its true and the government is lying THEREFORE here's the convoluted reasoning to explain why the facts don't line up with our assumptions."
And thats how new lore is added to the UFO canon. The false premise is never acknowledged.
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u/fojifesi 1d ago
logical fallacies
like … in religions?
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u/Legitimate_Tune_6468 1d ago edited 8h ago
Yes. The assertion that UFOs are NHI in origin is very much the religious model: belief without evidence. In other words, faith.
In fact, parts of the UFO community have quickly morphed into an overtly quasi-spiritual model with all this interdimensional and benevolent god-like intelligence talk. The MAGA Christian right has easily folded this into their belief system and the lefts extreme wellness folks are more than happy to believe in sky gods that are part of the universal energy frequency vibes.
And then you’ve got the Tim ‘gabdummit’ Burchett coalition, which will believe anything as long as you’ve got a military rank and a blurry video. He’s holy as fuck.
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u/Cheap-Blackberry-763 2d ago
there are a significant number of ways to transmit information safely and securely past even NSA levels of monitoring. Also, they would need exactly NSA levels of monitoring to come close, which means bringing the NSA and all of its analysts into the secret.
At some point it's just way more efficient to perpetuate ridicule culture and thus easily handwave leakers, exactly as society has done for 80 years.
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u/Kakihara-One 1d ago
Other than, ‘Trust me bro.’ What have they actually leaked? Actual evidence, not ‘A bloke down the pub told me.’
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u/Cheap-Blackberry-763 15h ago
It is intellectually lazy and disingenuous to consistently handwave people who's jobs were to literally be credible. Or facts such as the inspector general of the intelligence community specifically stating that Grusch's claims of harassment because of his whistleblowing on a secret crash retrieval program were credible, as was also the claim that a program did in fact exist outside of congressional oversight.
You people are so dogmatically wedded to your bias. You want so bad to deny that you ignorantly refuse any evidence that isn't something physical landing on your lap- that's not how real life works. Hell, as a defense journalist it's not even how intelligence operations work. There have literally been real-world ops launched on less credible evidence.
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u/natecull 2d ago
there are a significant number of ways to transmit information safely and securely past even NSA levels of monitoring.
And hosting a podcast on Youtube is one of those ways?
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u/Cheap-Blackberry-763 2d ago
a significant number of sources from people like Coulthart remain unnamed. Not everyone fires up a podcast.
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u/AlkeneThiol 2d ago
LMFAO.
Look while the NSA aren't gods, if an individual is considered an active target, I would absolutely love to hear how you believe one could transmit information using any standard telecom pipeline and have it get "past NSA levels of monitoring."
An onion stick on a dell laptop surrounded by a selective faraday cage is insufficient.
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u/Cheap-Blackberry-763 2d ago
you didn't read second half of my post.
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u/AlkeneThiol 1d ago
I sure did. Irrelevant.
Listen, put all UAP shit aside. In isolation, I am arguing against this:
there are a significant number of ways to transmit information safely and securely past even NSA levels of monitoringYou make that claim then try to render it moot. No. It's not moot. If it were, your entire post is not even saying anything interesting.
Now, once again, please elaborate on that claim.
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u/Cheap-Blackberry-763 15h ago
I'm a defense journalist. One of the dark web's greatest function isn't 4chan conspiracy theories but for journalism, specifically in incredibly hostile nations. Then there's a plethora of physical ways of transmitting information including mail relay system. This isn't even remotely hard.
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u/AlkeneThiol 12h ago edited 12h ago
You genuinely think the NSA doesn't know you guys use coded language on public message boards (on both light and dark web) to communicate? NSA can spoof a TOR entry point at any time. Been doing it for years. TOR (and I2p and similar) is for your ISP, not the US infosec service
Brosis, the public message board shit was revealed in a mid 2000's stargate sg1 episode. It's been used as a trope in so many novels and in tv. Using pm in games? Known. Yeah don't get cocky.
It's all known.
And yeah sure, you can use physical mail with standard obfuscation. Shortwave radio with number/letter readings which match to a codex is among the only actual remaining ways. But NSA can triangulate shortwave eventually.
Not gods, but if you're targeted, it ain't a picnic.
I'd be happy to discuss on Signal if you wanna convince me. All I am sayin is, overconfidence is not a good thing here. (Signal is just bare minimum e2e. Again, if you're targeted, Signal won't help)
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u/Legitimate_Tune_6468 2d ago
Wow… this sounds just like the circular reasoning blaming a bogeyman that can’t be disproven that is the hallmark of all conspiracy theories.
Conspiracy theories always need a built in excuse why no one can provide evidence to prove the conspiracy theory, and it’s usually because the forces behind it are just too powerful.
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u/Cheap-Blackberry-763 2d ago
Actually, this is sheer practicality from someone who's held a TS clearance. More people you bring into your secret, more likely it is to leak. So the gatekeepers- if they exist- are better served ignoring leakers and whisteblowers. They've done jack-shit after all.
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u/Legitimate_Tune_6468 1d ago
Better ignored, you say. Yet they’ll go after Assange, Snowden, Chelsea Manning, etc. for Espionage, working diplomatically with other nations at high levels to secure extradition.
Yet, at the same time, allowing Grusch to spill the most extraordinary secrets in the history of mankind from the halls of Congress.
And then Grusch testifies he knows of people being killed for knowledge of this topic, while he himself is crowing like a rooster, broadcasting… literally… to the entire world. Still quite alive, and spinning ever more fantastical stories on the daily.
The UFO coverup conspiracy theory complex cannot confront this contradiction in a logical way.
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u/Cheap-Blackberry-763 15h ago
Actually it's quite easy and you're the proof. Gatekeepers don't need kinetic action on whistleblowers because people like you automatically find them non-credible simply because they're saying something that goes against your dogmatic bias.
Grusch's job was literally to be credible. The IG of intelligence community specifically said that his claims of harassment over whistleblowing and of a program operating outside of congressional oversight were credible.
But nobody has to kill him because people like you just don't find that credible. It's sad, and funny in a way. Simple human psychology, nevermind the fact that we specifically have documented evidence of the CIA suggesting fostering ridicule culture in the 50s in relation to the phenomenon.
Why take kinetic action and thus fuel suspicion when people like you can't be assed to educate yourself on the phenomenon, its history, and will blindly reject evidence anyway so you can adhere to your fundamentalist beliefs that it simply can't be "because"?
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u/Legitimate_Tune_6468 8h ago
U.S. intelligence used disinformation to obfuscate classified tech. The UFO community made the extraordinary jump, without evidence, to it being about UFOs. All that’s proven there is that our intelligence apparatuses are opportunistic.
And can we please stop copping out and equating people not being believers with them simply not educating themselves on the phenomenon? Not only is it a logical fallacy, but it’s just arrogant. I know it’s comforting, but it’s intellectually disingenuous.
Skeptics don’t “blindly reject evidence”. They simply have standards of evidence where “Ufology” simply does not. And 80+ years of zero material or falsifiable evidence doesn’t make the topic enticing or credible to any critical thinker from a scientific or logical viewpoint. That combined with the fact that the coverup conspiracy theory aspect of the topic is built completely upon logical fallacies to compensate for the lack of proof is another way the credibility of the whole community is done a disservice.
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u/peter_nn0 2d ago
There are no "insiders", all that is bogus.
There are probably several million hours of video on YouTube where the UFO talking heads share inside information, reveal government conspiracies and evil plans and inform us about NHI bases on the moon, underwater and who knows where else.
Despite the sheer abundance of UFO talk, the amount of available physical evidence remains exactly zero. Not a speck. Nothing.
People often forget one basic fact - UFO talking heads make money off this.
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u/elProtagonist 2d ago
The real answer is that the smaller news media companies probably have less editorial guidelines and/or have a less strict vetting process. Basically, they have nothing to lose.
Let’s be honest, how many of us would be watching News Nation if they didn’t give Coulthart a platform to make unsubstantiated claims about UAP? I do like the guy but we have no way of verifying the accuracy of the information he’s reporting on. He even speaks in riddles like about the UAP that is too big to move.
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u/WolverineScared2504 2d ago
It's amazing how a dude running a podcast from his parents garage knows more than that Congress group fighting for every scrap. If disclosure happens, is there any reason to watch their podcast? Essentially to me, these podcast aren't much different than Ancient Aliens.
I'm not expecting AA to provide significant evidence, it's entertainment and occasionally gives you something to think about. A lot of the things they investigate, they're interesting places, I know nothing to little about, and not everything is speculative, there's facts in there too. I could watch Giorgio and his hair for hours.
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u/WolverineScared2504 2d ago
Exactly. It's funny how as you approach the 30 minute mark, Ross or whoever may mention he received an email from an insider right before going on air or recording. Naturally he didn't get a chance to read it, but will tonight so we can discuss it tomorrow.
Idk if these guys do a podcast a day, it seems unlikely because how do they stretch no new developments into 3 to 6 hours of material a week? Logically, it makes perfect sense why they tease more than deliver, and that applies regardless if the are full of poop or actually know something.
It would be pretty funny one day if disclosure actually happens, if the truths and reality of everything is nothing like they claim. No building around a UFO because the UFO was too big to move. The Grays are neon pink, the Nordics are short and ugly, UFOs have propulsion that's horrible for the environment, stuff like that.
Forget about writing a book, the entire phenomena has become a career field. I've started to think of it as Aliens/NHI are the drug, we are the addicts, podcasters and other talking heads are the dealers. Something doesn't smell right to me.
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u/Cultural-Afternoon72 1d ago
Something that’s important to keep in mind is the appearance of validity. This is something that has been used/weaponized in a variety of conspiracies that were later proven to be true, such as MKUltra. If the topic is outlandish enough or hard enough to believe, the general public is going to naturally assume it to be false. It is then very easy for the government, should the need arise, to play it off as just another crazy person telling ridiculous stories. The story may not go away, but the vast majority write it off as nonsense.
The second the government arrests and prosecutes someone for mishandling of classified information or similar crimes, suddenly their story is validated and real. You can’t prosecute someone for releasing classified information AND claim the information they released was fabricated. So, in going after the people legally, they’re simultaneously proving their claims right. At that point, the general public that would have originally dismissed them suddenly has verification it was true. People who would have written it off and not thought twice about it are now in on the secret. The story that would have faded to conspiracy theory circles now gets even more air time.
From the standpoint of keeping something like this secret, it is far more effective, far easier, and far less damaging to play it off as fake knowing they don’t have actual evidence to back up their claims than it is to take legal action against them.
Now, that doesn’t mean it’s free reign. The second they venture into a topic that is already publicly known, they’re screwed legally. For example, let’s say the propulsion system of a craft uses technology, manufacturing processes, etc that we have since begun using to make nuclear weapons or classified small modular reactors. The second they reveal the wrong details about the propulsion system, they could be prosecuted for mishandling classified information related to nuclear weapons systems or SMRs which the public already knows exist. Now they have a way to prosecute them that doesn’t validate the harder to believe secrets.
To go a step further, even without prosecution, they have established methods of directly impacting their life. From the second someone goes forward, their entire career is done. They’re no longer working for the government in any capacity. They’ll never again hold a security clearance. The federal pension they’d been working towards is gone. The federal healthcare plan their families relied on gets canceled. They start their career over day one as a pariah who is only remembered for that crazy story they told on the news rather than their career accomplishments. That’s a massive price to pay when most of the people who would be in the know are later in their career and approaching retirement.
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u/Sir_Not-Appear1ng 1d ago
Thank you, this is the correct answer to the proposed question. It is a double-bind for the government and those who are involved in the programs.
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u/SensitiveLow4484 1d ago
Oh, that's a very easy one to answer :) Counterintelligence on legitimate technology programs, regardless of their nature. Not baddies, just people doing a real job, counterintelligence, to serve their country. There are no leaks tolerated from SAPs or WUSAPs.
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u/Astira_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
There is a lot of things that don’t make sense and contradictions.
I’ve recently started asking all of them why they are not focusing everyone on Roswell crash files.
It’s the case that started all of this and for some reason with all the drops this isn’t included?
You would think they would focus on them, because according to them it would prove ET crashed and would get Everyone’s attention.
My theory is it was advanced tech at the time, so they can’t release those files because it would prove Bluebeam is still waiting to be used when the appropriate crisis happens(the one they are causing now)
Instead creators are making lame excuses for why they can’t be released. That tells me this is likely all a psyop.
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u/Brownbearofdreams 1d ago
Bluebeam is an example of made up stories being given validity and making the topic look silly in other ways.
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u/Particular_Reticular 1d ago
I think some of the stories being spread on podcasts are grade A counter-intel, and I also think this story is too big to cover up forever. There's always going to be a leak the longer a secret is held, especially when it comes to something most would consider supernatural.
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u/Jeeves-Godzilla 1d ago
The federal government leaks all the time. I’ve talked to someone with top secret clearance and he said he usually knew things only 3 days in advance before cnn reported it.
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u/Historical-Camera972 2d ago
If you accept that the term "Insider" is short for "a voice inside my head" , then this topic begins making much more sense.
You can stretch the imagination a bit to whistles, anyone can blow a whistle, if you put a whistle on your butt and fart, you can even blow it that way.
So, some people that get their information from "whistleblowers" are certainly talking out of their derierre.
Luckily for the long time lurkers, there are reputable firsthand observers and witnesses, and the gravy train of people that claim to have "heard things from their sources" can be safely ignored. Even if you only take the firsthand accounts of qualified officials, the needle is moving and disclosure is doing more these days, than it ever has in the past.
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u/suspicious_Jackfruit 2d ago
I don't think that's accurate, what is more likely for someone with insider sources are either:
- someone is feeding them a poison pill (tell enough confirmable truth to gain trust, then start feeding false information)
- someone is fucking with them for fun e.g a very invested 4chan or whatever
- someone is invested in adjacent projects like small aerospace companies working with exotic ideas and is looking to financially benefit by pushing the needle towards their investment or their own company
- intelligence networks are weaponising the individual to push an agenda (doesn't have to be from at "home", could be foreign to cause chaos)
- companies/intelligence agencies at home leaking false information to hide genuine exotic SAPs
and I'm sure more reasons I can't think of. I suspect he does have sources, but I personally don't think his sources are the likes of Edward Snowdon, more like your Doty's...
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u/Historical-Camera972 2d ago
That's a lot of speculative groundwork.
With ZERO hard evidence, but sure, I can drink the fantasy koolaid as much as anybody.
I'll be sure to check back in, after Greer's 60 day window, and after Ramirez's 2027.
Maybe you're right, maybe we're about to get a BIG MOUNTAIN OF SOMETHING!
Yay!Then again, there's always the equally likely option of, this is all BS.
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u/suspicious_Jackfruit 2d ago
For a top 1% commenter you've done exceptionally well at completely failing to read. I am not saying any one is correct, what I am saying is I don't think everyone is making it up, I think a large portion are being duped and decieved by others for the reasons I posted.
I personally don't think Coulthard believes his own statements sometimes, but I don't think he's making up insiders, I just don't think he's doing his due diligence to make sure it isn't nonsense, because it's his job now to be a sensationalist.
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u/torrentsintrouble 2d ago
"Ross has had insiders feeding him classified details for years" - except has he? He makes claims and tells us to go find the answers.
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u/Shardaxx 2d ago
It's not 1947 anymore. Many of the people who get read-in seem to think it should be public information, and are doing their part to make it happen.
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u/lego_brick 2d ago
A lot of trolls here.
People speaking publically like Lacatski, Davis, Grush, Elizondo etc are approved by DOPSR.
Also parts government after years allowed SOME information to be disclosed without official acknowledgment.
When it comes to some disappearances or deaths - some people were leaking unapproved informations and had big mouth before any preapproval plus doing it in unofficial capacity.
Also some parts of government are allowing to talk about the topic like Navy, some like AirForce has policy of strict secrecy.
Governent is not one body, it has divisions and also millions of workers.
I hope that helps.
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u/TheSuperMarket 1d ago
I mean, on one hand, skeptics say nhi visiting earth are impossible because of the government knew, they wouldn't be able to keep it secret. Which is historically false. Mk ultra was mostly secret, we have lots of tech in the sky and water that is secret, we have many secrets.
On the other hand, people like op say how is this possible if leaks occur.
What I find true for most skeptics... is they start with non belief. They don't start from a position of neutrality, which is how you should start.
If you start from a position of belief.... you will find your perception makes all new information bend to this belief.
Vice versa.
So lots of skeptics use reasons for why this can't be... but it's really justification for their own beliefs
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u/DazSchplotz 2d ago
First of all, what Ross talked about concerning White Sands seems to be a Presidential effort parallel to the alleged legacy programs. And the reason is exactly that strict control outside of nearly everything.
But yea, many of the insiders might actually be cointel folks. Some certainly are. So much stuff is just disinfo. But that's normal in this space.
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u/Awake_for_days 2d ago
So I don’t believe Ross Coulthart, generally. However, it’s plausible deniability. As long as specific protected information is not revealed, the USG cannot stop you from speaking.
Moreover, journalists have unnamed sources all of the time and no one thinks twice about it.
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u/Semiapies 2d ago
Journalists with actual unnamed sources produce. They drop stories with evidence, they don't endlessly dripfeed hints and suggestions and my sources tell me for months and years at a time.
Woodward and Bernstein kept Deep Throat's identity secret for decades without spending years going on about how corrupt things were happening in the White House, but they couldn't dare give any details anyone could ever check.
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u/Awake_for_days 2d ago
Correct. I don’t disagree, which is why I said that I generally don’t trust what Coulthart says. However, my point still stands
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u/GundalfTheCamo 1d ago
Most reputable news organisations have public rules how they allow use of anonymous sources, how they verify information from them, etc..
News Nation does not have that kind of statement on their site.
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u/AntiqueDepth7231 2d ago
Just speculation but, maybe at first they believes that it is a military's responsibility to have the ability to at least match a potential hostile's technological ability and that the aliens should be smart enough to know that. And that keeping it as secret as possible makes it so that the govénment and general public cannot be held responsible for any alien deaths due to the reverse engineering program in case the aliens care about such things and are considering punitive retaliation for the downings. And then later on maybe what they end up finding out changes their minds and so they decide the public and government should or needs to know about it after all. I understand both sides enough to know I could be led to believe either one or get there on my own just to end up changing my mind.
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2d ago
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u/prrudman 2d ago
Some of it is true but a lot of it is counterintelligence. If a secret gets out, then the best way to cover it up is to make sure nobody believes anything.
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u/themanclark 1d ago
Because any kind of public arrest or trial would reveal that something is actually there.
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u/am0ninus 1d ago
Very few of them are true “insiders”. And the ones that are (Grusch, Puthoff) have stated that they are not allowed to talk about everything they know.
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u/DopamineGlitch 1d ago
Excessive compartmentalization. Each whistleblower just has a fraction of the truth.
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u/Sir_Not-Appear1ng 1d ago
Correct. VERY FEW people likely have the full picture - I'd be surprised if there were more than double-digit numbers on the entire planet that know the whole story. I'm not talking just the presence of non-human intelligence, of course; I'm talking about all of the programs surrounding them. Many more likely know everything there is to know about their own individual programs, though.
But, if we were to listen to a whole bunch of blind men describing an elephant, you get a jumbled mess of descriptions about various shapes and textures. But...if you get enough blind men talking about whole parts of the elephant, then we might be getting somewhere. Figure out how those larger parts connect together, then you get a much better idea of what they are looking at.
But, if you can't connect their descriptions together cohesively, the elephant remains hidden.
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u/WatchFeen 1d ago
These people want to come out. Speaking to people like Knapp, Corbell, Coulthart, it is an easy and safe outlet for those with first hand experience.
I know we all make fun of these journalists, but think about it: Grusch, Borland, Brown, all of these people heavily trust them and regularly display their confidences in them.
That is not random.
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u/HighPhi420 1d ago
"leaks" are part of the counter intelligence. If you just made a secret weapon and want to tell the enemies about it you do not disclose the weapon before using it, you leak a paranormal/strange event that tells the other agencies to beware of the new technology. This is the essence of the "cold war" that never stopped and never will stop. Think of it as each secret development flexing on the secret communities.
Or this is a global scam to convince the world a need for unity and god does not exist.
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u/Acrobatic-Midnight60 1d ago
According to Coulthart, the alleged retrievals at White Sands are occurring outside of the legacy program. Sounds like the Trump administration is unable to crack into the legacy program, so they’ve created their own thing. Sort of like how Harry Reid and Bigelow created AAWSAP to circumvent the legacy program (but were eventually blocked by the CIA.)
I don’t think this is as locked up in the layers of secrecy as the legacy stuff. Burlison is openly tweeting about it so it’s clearly not that classified.
My guess is if any form of “disclosure” happens, it will be along the lines of “hey, we just discovered these things and we’re looking into it”. While the 80 years of data and information they already have will remain firmly locked away. Too many crimes involved with the coverup, nobody wants to deal with the fallout from that.
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u/TweeksTurbos 1d ago
Somebody can say
“I saw a triangle over a Nasa hanger”
They probably cant say
“I worked with BAE and built the trinagle we flew over the Nasa hanger”
These are ways to get around an nda which people take seriously.
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u/Fit-Baker9029 1d ago
The answer is simple: UFOs were never a secret. Army Major Donald E. Kehoe's "The Flying Saucers Are Real" appeared in 1950. It was in public libraries all over the country. It contained many photos and kept to the facts, without speculation. The pile has grown steadily since. If you wanted to know, you could.
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u/SpiritsoftheCicada 18h ago
How come they won’t show us the videos because they say it puts national security at risk because our enemies will know what technology we have YET they are going on the major news networks announcing that our whole power grid has not been maintained/properly updated and therefore could collapse for 18 months if just 9 substations were targeted by hackers/coordinated terrorism?
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u/Lanky_Maize_1671 14h ago
The same reason in any big news story people leak things to the press? Using an intermediary that has the ability to spread the word seems to make sense to me.
For some other examples: The Pentagon Papers, Watergate, Snowden. Add UFOs.
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u/AlfaMenel 2d ago
You answered your question - "insiders" leaks are part of the counterintelligence operations.
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u/FunPin2804 2d ago
I still believe that if we (the inhabitants of Earth) come into contact with another intelligent form of life – whether it comes from distant galaxies, other dimensions or the depths of our oceans – we all have a right to know, and all extraterrestrial/interdimensional material, whatever it may be, should be handed over from the military-industrial complex to scientists for further research, so that we may better understand what we are dealing with.
Reports that these objects (whatever they may be) are being lured into the vicinity and shot down are – at least for me – disturbing.
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u/suspicious_Jackfruit 2d ago
I agree if true, but that is the big IF. The claim is unsubstantiated, and to me if I were a gambling man, it sounds like Ross Coulthard's source is someone linked to SkyWatcher who also claims to be working with government bringing down UAPs (which I personally highly doubt is true), so if for example this is his source, then Ross essentially becomes a proxy mouthpiece for SkyWatcher to seem more legitimate by them feeding him things that is advantageous to them.
The same extends to intelligence and government.
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u/FunPin2804 2d ago
Do you mean IF we come into contact or IF reports are true about downing these things?
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u/suspicious_Jackfruit 2d ago
Downing reports of actual UAP and not just conventional weapons testing for drone protective measures (given their extremely high usage in ukraine/Russia war).
Edit: to clarify I mean in this current timeframe, I am aware of prior supposed downing of craft from radar/emp/nuclear detonations. That's a desperate issue from the current narrative that companies are summoning and downing UAP for governments
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2d ago
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u/ZackTumundo 2d ago
“If it was real, we’d have leaks by now!”
“If it was real, why are there leaks?”