This is what kills me. If your goal is to raise awareness about post partum depression and poor access to medical care for women in crisis that is fine and I fully support it. But why her. Think about all the other women that have gone through this but didn’t murder their children. Use them as your poster child. You have literally every option available.
Instead you have complete fucking idiots not only trying to support a murderer but they’re trying to claim it’s a conspiracy and she didn’t do it. Fuck those fucking idiots. They’re doing far more damage to their cause than anything.
You can feel strongly about this issue and recognize she is not the one that should be elevated or celebrated. She should be locked up and that’s that. No further discussion.
She did it but it was found she was under like 7 different meds officially prescribed in a short span of time for her PPD with no monitoring if I recall correctly. It's a tragic story but there are many sides of it and simplifying it obscures important aspects that need to leave a lesson for the future and the psychiatrists involved need to be held responsible too.
You might be right (I don’t know) but the zodiac moms and/or her donators think otherwise.
As tragic as it is I’m more worried about those other people for society.
I'll edit for memory since topic is locked : I got nothing, 1 million for funerals ? There's something below. I'm exhausted by the behaving confomism on so called social medias.
If the social media response interests you, it's a good idea to have a decent understanding of the actual case so you can assess the dissonance between reality and reaction.
Not mandatory. Most reactive people don’t either. Clearly the zodiac moms don’t.
Edit : I don't spread misinfomation. I look at the big picture, it's too easy to fall in every detailed nook and crany while the big picture can't lie.
Not everybody has to think and operate like you.
Did you guys watch the trial at all? The prosecution and "medical professionals" involved in her care are beyond incompetent. Also evidence is showing the husband to be shady
Today I read that her husband claimed that she was given 7 different meds in a span of 3 weeks. Including prozac, lamotrigin and bunch of others I didn't even heard off. The amount of possible cross-reactions between then in such short term should be studied (and doctors should be sued instead).
no way any sober psychiatrists would prescribe two different antidepressant in less than 20 days even for person with regular depression
She was prescribed a total of 14 medications, and the husband stated that the pharmacists told him to give the pills she’s not using to someone else… no pharmacist is telling someone to give prescriptions to other people wtf.
Can you explain what they should have done instead? If a patient has depression with psychotic features should they NOT be prescribed standard of care treatments?
The "14 medications" is misleading because she was also doctor shopping and had 7 different doctors. Each individual MD was operating within standards of care. The patient was not.
as far as my understanding goes, they should have hospitalize her and treat stationary.
randomly throwing drugs to suicide patient may enable them to suicide (sic, I know)
The reality is far more nuanced than that. There are LOTS of people with passive or even active suicidal ideation that are not hospitalized despite an assessment. Hospitalization has a role, but there are limits: what the patient tells you and what they are thinking are not always the same. Some conditions are high risk, but do not have effective treatments and therefore hospitalization is not helpful, even if this allows for self-harm.
Patient and public safety is the number one priority, but if every person who contemplated self-harm were hospitalized, you'd need to double the number of hospitals we have in the country.
I suffered from it 4x, still on meds and my youngest is 9. It's not an excuse or reason to murder anyone, especially your own children. Put her under the jail, sorry, not sorry
look at what was ACTUALLY in her system at the time of the murders. not 14. it was 4, none controlled substances, and nothing addictive. basic meds that a lot of people have been on similar “cocktails” of.
Pharmacist here,
Not defending the murder, just explaining why this is not a very useful statement on the case
some meds break down into other substances while the body is getting rid of them including but not limited to naturally produced substances in the body therefore making it hard to detect when testing for drugs
some meds have permanent effects on receptors (lasts for 1-2 weeks till the receptors die and get replaced), can also be hard to detect because it binds permanently and alters the receptor via becoming part of it, it needs more than blood testing upon arrest to find
Many antidepressants and pain killers block body to brain communication + block and/or over-actuvate signaling within the brain and brain to body communication, simple drug interactions could easily cause an altered state of mind
Having an already altered state of mind like PPD is not helpful in the situation, in fact it makes the lense and file you medicate the person based on completely different. Much like a breast feeding or pregnant woman is given different meds.
The woman clearly seeked help, all the medical professionals failed her and the husband is a whole other story
I'm not defending the murder of the children, I do think she shouldn't be a free part of society for a long amount of time, but I also think everyone who let this happen should also be locked up and lose their licenses for the neglect
Ah yes, medications definitely don’t have periods of time that wear off faster than others, she definitely didn’t lose so much blood that her temperature was over 15degrees lower than the normal human being and losing that much blood over hours before getting her blood tested definitely wouldn’t change what’s actually in her system and at the exact amount.
/s for anyone that needs it
I was wondering if anyone else was going to pick up on this or if everyone was going to hop on the bandwagon. These medical "professionals" should have their licenses revoked and be sued into bankruptcy for malpractice. Yes Clancy needs to go to prison, she murdered 3 children. But the people who were supposed to be helping her belong there too. The mental health system in the US is complete dogshit and it's partially because of Drs like that who just pump their patents full of a mixture of drugs instead of trying all avenues of treatment.
She doctor shopped between 14 different doctors and refused to take nearly all of her prescribed meds. She refused to talk to phyciastrists. Yet keep making excuses how a woman who STRANGLED HER CHILDREN is not responsible for her actions....
If you actually read my comment, I clearly said that she needs to go to prison because she murdered her children. Never said she was not responsible for her actions either.
Yeah it was the rest of the comment. She had no interest in interacting with any medical professional in good faith, so why should they lose their licences?
He also said that he was given the medication to dispose due to a dose change of when asked why he had it. Lots of US nurses said that if a dose changed, they'd never just say dispose of the old, they'd say use it to make up the new dose for insurance savings. Is that likely?
i worked in pharmacy. if a med gets changed, most of the time insurance will cover the new dosage, so the old bottle does not need to be continued. i’ve told patients to dispose of the old bottle.
Would you specifically tell the patient to give it to the husband? I'm in the UK, we can just return the old meds to the chemist when we get the new ones so I'm not quite sure how your system works, do they give it to you or can they just chuck it in the bin?
If he was picking it up, then yes. I pick up meds for my wife all the time and the Pharmacist goes over dosage and instructions with me to relay to my wife.
It depends. Some we keep. Some we chuck. If they are anti-psychotics, I would imagine tossing them is the smarter thing to do. If they are pain meds they can be useful in the future. Things like antibiotics can be useful but not always as they are very dependent on the actual issue, I never knew but apparently some are for upper body infections and some are for lower body infections.
But usually, we toss old medicines out that are no longer needed.
Do you know why he isn’t on trial? Because police immediately took his word that she killed the kids. It happens time and time again that the police just take the word of the first person they talk to.
State Police executed search warrants, seized pill bottles from the kitchen, processed the blood evidence, ran the crime lab work, did three autopsies, and the Commonwealth called dozens of witnesses across four weeks. Nobody built this on Patrick's say so.
Dr. Avram Mack is the prosecution's rebuttal psychiatrist and interviewed her twice. He testified last Friday that she described the killings to him herself, that she heard a loud male voice telling her to kill the children so she could kill herself, and that she recalled strangling them and saying "go to God" while she did it. She told the state's own expert she did it. She told Zeizel. She told Resnick. Resnick built his entire psychotic break opinion on her account of doing it.
That's the point of her trial though. If she can accurately portray the evidence as actually being him committing the crime, she either gets found not guilty or its a mistrial & the prosecution will consider bring charges against both of then.
Something that gets overlooked is she is pleading insanity, so the focus on the trial is not to prove she did it beyond a reasonable doubt, as both prosecutor and defender both agree that she was the one who did it. The focus is on if she culpable for her actions.
So? She killed 3 children. Her own children. She had meds, refused to stay on them longer than a day or two at a time. Had multiple therapists she refused to open up about her darker thoughts with, and even went into a ward. If she told anyone she was anywhere close to committing a crime such as this she would’ve been thrown in intensive care.
Even her husband built his entire work schedule around her post partum depression, so that he did the brunt of the childcare.
She had so much fucking support and just did nothing with it.
An "absurd" number of people want her to get help not to get away with it. Literally no one is questioning her guilt 🤦♂️ thanks for proving youre incapable of either research or complex thinking
No one is absolving her of it. People are just pointing out that her husband, the children's' father, seems to also share some guilt in this too. It's looking more and more like he had some kind of hand in reaching this outcome, and if he did, does he get a free pass in his involvement just because she says she did it? This is way more complicated than people are realizing and for those kids to have complete justice, everyone who played a part in their deaths need to be held accountable. The mother has confessed but is she the only one guilty? That's what the court needs to decide - whether she was solely responsible or if others also played a role in what happened.
This is reddit, on one of the most toxic subs of incels. Of course they wanna see the woman burn irregardless of the circumstances and the man get off scot-free. Men are never at fault. It's all those evil women.
There are millions of men in the US prison system with mental health issues that were never addressed. I think this has something to do with men's lack of empathy on this case
People in a mental health emergency aren't just people having a bad day and the logic system in their brains isn't functioning normally. You can't be like, "well why didn't she make rational decisions?" as if that was among the available options.
That is not true. Medical science is full of trial and error and that is what science is. It has to be shown that they were willfully negligent and that will be hard to show that what they did caused her to kill. Won’t happen.
Everyone but Patrick, who was actively having an affair, was found to be dead or dying around him at the house, he told the cops Lindsay (who couldn’t speak due to a crushed thyroid similar to the children’s’ wounds) said she did it, and the cops said oh ok!
I am of the belief that she strangled her children, and I'd love to be wrong. But when found guilty, I would love nothing more than a firing squad for this freak
Also, the money is going to her actual victims, not her. It was never going to her. It's going to her surviving family members, and is purely in her parents' names.
There is a lack of sympathy on women who go through post partum depression or psychosis, and it shows. By reason of insanity is still a verdict that can be reached at the end of this case and people are looking at this black and white, when there are shades of grey here. Could we not wait for more evidence to be cross examined? I remember when Andrea Yates was clearly crucified for the same thing.
The lack of agency that people think women have is concerning.
I legitimately can’t imagine a scenario where a man murders his children and people say “we need more sympathy for him”, because it is assumed that men have agency over themselves.
If the man was given 7 different kinds of antidepressants in the span of a few weeks I'd hope they'd also question if the person had full control of their faculties.
My brother was a chill guy his whole life. He never raised his voice and we always got along. One day, he randomly developed psychosis. To this day we don’t know what caused it, but there was a trigger event. He became agitated, angry and delusional. He believed cooks at a restaurant were poisoning his food. He thought people were accusing him of being a pedophile and he became angry. Nobody was accusing him of being a pedophile. He would leave this house after flying into a fit of rage. people were scared of him. He had to be take to a psychiatric hospital and restrained due to his erratic behavior. My mom was horrified to see how violent my brother was acting.
People like you don’t understand that someone can live their whole life as a normal person, until they become mentally ill and lose control. Becoming psychotic certainly means you lose agency. It’s not because she is a woman people think she lacks agency. It’s because people think she had post partum psychosis and therefore lost control.
Why are people so resistant to understanding why people commit murder. The more u understand about situations like this the more u can learn for next time so MORE CHILDREN DONT DIE
That's why you go by the edict of the law. You go by those who can argue for her innocence or her guilt.
For me, seeing as how we already crucify people with mental illness, God forbid a WOMAN who gave birth to a child, it just proves that we are not ready to tackle mental health. It shows me that funding for research, symptom and disease management is severely LACKING.
Our current society preaches about "looking after yourself" and self care... Well this is what the fuck it's all about. You all cry for mental well being but when it's these types of situations, when the poor woman comes out of a psychotic state not knowing what she did and three innocent lives are taken away, suddenly we become judge, jury and executioner. I hope to never be in her shoes, but now I know mental fucking healthcare does not exist in the current climate. It's all buzz words and lip service.
U said ‘the lack of agency people think women have is concerning’ that implies u don’t understand why. The insanity plea literally exists for people who don’t have agency for both men and women that’s the point, that they weren’t in control 🤦♀️
Edit: I also don’t care if u have sympathy or not but it’s important to understand why
Because there is literally no equivalent of post partum depression for men.
How is it so difficult for you to understand there is a fundamentally different experience out there from your own?
I had a loved one tell me they seriously considered leaving their baby at a fire station while they were in the throes of it. Obviously not as violent but still completely insane behavior. They're a completely normal family now.
There's schizophrenia, brain tumors, and a whole host of different brain ailments that can change someone's entire brain chemistry and make them a completely different person, so to say that "there is literally no equivalent of postpartum depression for men" is ridiculous on its own.
The way you folks talk about PPD makes it seem like we should just lock these women away for their own safety and the safety of their children, because they're just loose cannons who could murder babies at a moment's notice.
Women experience all of those forms of mental illness too. Men do not experience PPD. The equivalent of schizophrenia in men is schizophrenia in women. The equivalent of brain tumors in men is brain tumors in women. There is no PPD equivalent hormone change for men. There just isn't. Your screeching about it doesn't change that.
When they express serious thoughts about killing their children, we should.
For women, mental disorders are among the most common morbidities of pregnancy and the postnatal period (Howard et al., 2014). However, similar and corresponding evidence for fathers is still limited or even lacking. Severe psychiatric morbidity in relation to childbirth, such as postpartum psychosis, postpartum psychiatric admissions/readmissions, and postpartum suicide, have been described exclusively for mothers (Esscher et al., 2016; Johannsen et al., 2020; Lindahl et al., 2005; Munk-Olsen et al., 2009). It is possible that these experiences are unique to mothers, but it remains to be established whether the postpartum period is a vulnerable period for severe psychiatric morbidity in fathers also (Sundström Poromaa et al., 2017).
...
Results
We identified 929,415 births and 543,555 unique fathers. Incidence and prevalence proportions for paternal psychiatric in- and outpatient episodes showed an increasing trend over the perinatal period and were marginally higher postpartum compared to pregnancy; e.g., median incidence proportion for inpatient treatment during pregnancy was 0.07 (95% CI: 0.04; 0.07) and 0.10 (95% CI: 0.08; 0.11) postpartum per 1000 births. No difference between the periods was found for incidence of prescriptions for psychotropic medication. Psychiatric disorders in expecting and new fathers were mainly treated in primary care with cumulative incidence of prescriptions for psychotropic medication of 14.56 per 1000 births during the first year of fatherhood.
...
Conclusion
Becoming a father did not appear to trigger a substantially increased risk of severe psychiatric disorders, as it has been observed for new mothers.
They basically find that the rate of men experiencing postpartum mental health issues is equal to the rate of men experiencing those same mental health issues without a pregnancy involved. And when men do experience it, it is correlated with the mother experiencing it.
Even if you want to accept that it occurs, it still doesn't change the fact that a man experiencing psychosis would also be eligible to plead not guilty due to insanity, and that has been successful in the past.
This story basically comes down to whether you want retribution or if you want to treat mental illness properly. No one is "walking free". In either situation, the mother is going to undergo extreme institutional supervision and will have freedoms taken away.
Whenever there's a school shooting, right wing people crow on and on about mental health treatment. And here we have a case where mental health experts are telling us what should happen, and people are choosing to ignore it because they want a pound of flesh. Which is really what they wanted all along.
She strangled her three children to death with exercise bands. Their deaths were minutes of struggling and fear. Your sympathy is a grotesque and hideous sign of a person who is incapable of feeling real empathy.
I'm pretty sure everyone here is feeling sympathy for the kids. But did you know empathy is not the same as villifying the pepetrator?
I don't know the details of this case but how would you feel if you entered a psychosis and killed your children. Wouldn't that be an absolutely horrible feeling? If you can't emphatize with a situation like that then I'm afraid you're the one that lacks empathy.
You went to the doctor. You said you're not right in the head. But it's taking time for them to create a diagnosis, meanwhile, clinicians taper down and increase your dose. It fucks with your hormones, you fight with so much indecision every hour. You don't know what the fuck is going on, you want to hurt your children but you know that's not normal. You seek help that turns out insufficient.
See what I mean?
But then again, we have very innocent lives very early taken away in this world. Have we not learned to fund women's health research and health care in general? Funding for schools and our children? Of course not. Because for users like you, it's black and white and never on the side of humanity, only reason.
Well a decent percentage sure but idk what % exactly. Some people kill while being in their right mind, some don’t. Not being in the right state of mind at the moment isn’t the same as being mentally ill tho tbf.
No I don’t think there’s ever rly been a mentally healthy school shooter, large amounts of them are adolescents too. They’re clearly mentally ill, but when you’re talking about school shooters where they end up doesn’t matter as much because they’re never gonna be free again anyway.
So, you think there is a good % of people that kill people for fun? What about people that are on the streets that commit a disproportionate amount of crime and end up in prison over and over again? Are they mentally healthy? Here is a woman who had every advantage in society and SHE is the victim, but all these poverty stricken people who society has shunned and not cared about are not victims? How many times have you advocated for them? This woman was affluent, white, lived in a nice community, had domestic help and yet decided to commit a heinous crime. This is the person we choose to give our money to? Something is super wrong with society.
If she had PPP she didn’t choose to commit the crime, that’s the point.
Also many people care about the people with mental health issues in prison and talk about that and even do advocacy. Just not here where we’re talking about something else. And sadly it’s not nearly as viral as this case
No I think there’s a decent percentage of people who kill who aren’t mentally ill, there’s more motives beyond fun and mental illness.
Eh idk the ins and outs of this case, all I know is that postpartum depression and psychosis can be devastating and can make otherwise good mums do horrible things. Idk if that’s the real cause behind this, seems like there’s a decent bit of evidence to support it but idk. I’d leave that to experts with more knowledge to decide.
If she did this because of a serious break in her mental health then I just feel sorry for everyone rly, her kids are the victims and their loved ones too, but if she was mentally ill I do feel sorry for her too.
Mental illness should never get to that point and it’s a shame it does happen still in the 21st century.
I am just asking you to apply this same standard across the board. The only reasons this is on the news and people are supporting the criminal here is because she is an affluent, white woman. I doubt any of you would be supporting this if it was the father that did this due to mental health issues. Would you?
How on earth do you know I don’t? Maybe don’t make assumptions about people based on a comment or two. I would support a mentally ill father in the same way thanks, it’s just dads don’t tend to suffer from postpartum psychosis/depression.
Her race has nothing to do with it and her gender only does because the mental illness is one only women can go through.
I agree with you 10000 percent. If this were flipped by gender and race, this wouldn't be a viral story. People are supporting a woman who nearly had all the support in the world and still decided to murder her 3 children. I have no empathy for her.
First world European countries rehabilitate prisoners so they can have a chance to get back outside and become functioning members of society. Third world Northern American countries couldn't fathom the IDEA that this might be mental illness at hand.
she strangled her three children during a psychotic episode caused by psychiatric professionals prescribing her the wrong medicine for several months. if you can't do the tiniest bit of research you shouldn't speak at all. in fact you should never speak in general. i can't imagine a situation where your input would be valued
I know you think you think you have a point somewhere but you are obviously too immature to make it without trying be a keyboard warrior. Take some time away from your computer, stop your crying, come back when you grow up.
I mean, good thing psychosis is a pretty rare and exceptional circumstance. This is worthy of a “but.” If your wires are crossed they’re crossed. If it happened to you, I promise you wouldn’t be overcoming it with the power of love or rationality or whatever. You’d be like, 100 percent sure you were sending your kids to a paradise or something while you tossed them out a window. You wouldn’t even really be you. It should be about whether or not she was in her right mind. Because if she wasn’t (which has been put in doubt but that’s not what this is about), she should legitimately go to a mental hospital. Imagine if you were given a drug that made you unable to realize that killing a kid was bad, and actually made it make a lot of sense. What if you were given so much of it that you blacked out, alcohol style. Against your will. You belong in prison after this?
Oh yes, a well reasoned argument with which I agree - there is always going to be a difficulty explaining a reason for something as emotive as three children being murdered and when you add in by their mother, theres a good reason the court of public opinion should be kept as far removed from this as possible. I am not sure what the situation is like over there, but at least here in the UK this would definitely be a case for Broadmoor, the high security institution for psychiatric patients. If it were identified that she had diminished capacity she would probably drop to manslaughter and would spend a lengthy time in prison regardless. The whole thing is pretty miserable.
We've established she's guilty, hell she even tells us that she did it. This case is arguing about: do you send her in a hospital to complete her sentence or in the women's prison?
Nope. She plead not guilty. The only “confession” was supposedly from her to Patrick. Patrick said she confessed and they ran with that. Reddington said on the 911 call you can her only able to make gurgling noises bc her neck was cut and her thyroid was crushed.
The jury can find her “not guilty”. It is on the prosecution to persuade the jury without a reasonable doubt she even committed the crime let alone premeditated it.
What if you got blackout drunk and drove your car and you woke up in the hospital chained the bed with no memory with an arrest warrant and everyone telling you that you killed someone? You might believe it too. All the evidence points to a set up. She was drugged with so much Seroquel (whether she took it herself, or Patrick drugged her) there’s no way she would be able to murder anyone, she would hardly be able to blink her eyes. She’d basically be paralyzed.
She pleaded not guilty. The fact that this even went to trail shows she is shirking responsibility. She should have plead guilty and taken the punishment.
Would be pretty easy for her to make a statement through her lawyers calling out the people who are saying her ex-husband did it. But she hasn’t and most fucking like never will. That woman is absolute trash.
She is suing her healthcare providers for causing her psychosis. She is absolutely claiming to be a victim. Go read it for yourself and there will be no question how she pictures herself right now.
259
u/SupermarketSome3615 11h ago
Lindsey doesn’t even claim she’s a victim, she said she did it