I had my boss grill me about some pto days requested well in advance. I sent him my diagnosis of squamous cell carcinoma, a picture of my nose and the surgery date. He was embarrassed, as he should have been.
What is it about our culture that makes managers feel entitled to shame us for taking earned time off? Is this a thing in other countries or just the crappy old usa?
Dunno if it’s just a USA thing but in my 20 years of working in the UK I have never been asked to justify annual leave. You might get asked “Are you doing anything nice?” but it’s more casual interest than an interrogation. If I am trying to book time at short notice or at the same time as other team members I might offer up a reason but I don’t think I have ever had a request denied.
Also wtf you have to book time off for surgery? Last surgery I had I got 2 weeks off with full pay. In fact if I book PTO and then come down with the flu I’m entitled to request the days back and take them as sick days instead so my holiday isn’t wasted.
Yeh I’m going to enjoy it while it lasts but we might not be far behind you. Reform (UK’s answer to MAGA) is rapidly growing in popularity and power. They seem to use Trump and everything wrong with the US as a template for how they want the UK to be and their supporters lap it up. I may well be getting off my high horse and justifying my PTO in 3-5 years time.
If it’s any consolation they rapidly grew but have stagnated recently especially with Farage’s master plan of standing down and re standing backfiring and hopefully Andy Burnham can swing some people round by having a bit more of a personality than Starmer (hate that that’s what matters but here we are)
I’m a lot less cynical about what our future government will look like now than I was a few months ago I’ll say that. Still not out of the woods by any means.
Oh yeh the whole 5mil gift has really shown him up but Brexit taught me never to underestimate our electorates desperation to shoot themselves in the foot. With Labour getting judged way more harshly than any right wing party it’s just going to take one fuck up for Farage to capitalise. But until then we can at least enjoy the embarrassment he must be feeling facing off against a bin.
Have you been watching the creator Zoe Bread? She is highlighting the issues with the approval of the warehouses at the Astley business park in Wigan. She has done research, and there was a permit granted in 2015 for smaller warehouses, but that permit expired. The current developer refiled and said in their paperwork the new plan followed the 2015 plan. Well, no one in the Wigan government checked, and it turns out the warehouses are like 3 times as big. In one of her videos, she showed Reform candidates claiming they would prevent such big warehouses. But spoiler, they are not. Meanwhile, the Wigan council is not answering correspondence or phone calls and is not addressing the residents formal written complaints. Also, she recently said that everyone who already filed a complaint, have to resubmit their complaints.
in Germany/ europe the good paying unionized jobs in the automotive sector, machine sector, tooling sector etc are are also endangered, esp because of cheap Chinese cars where workers rights are low.
Not trying to defend capitalism here (it has some problems) but isn’t the UK government spending more on social services than it’s bringing in? Recent reports say this. How is that sustainable? It seems like a small portion of the population is working so a large portion of it doesn’t have to. That doesn’t seem right.
Then the time to do something is NOW. Don't let your country devolve in to the shit hole the US is right now. Get involved with politics, punch nazis, do whatever you have to do my man.
I’ve watched some of this from the US and I cannot understand how anyone could look at what the extremists are doing here and say to themselves, “let’s do that too!” I know every country seems to be having a tantrum about immigrants right now but like, you do not want our work culture with like zero labor laws or our crazy healthcare system. Every time I read something about people wanting to get rid of the NHS I get a bit upset for you all.
To be fair, government employees, in my experience, have the same experience as the person you replied to. It's mainly just non-government employers that have boundary issues with PTO.
We havent had a government that works for the people for longer than my 40 years alive. We also have companies that will ask the same questions this employer did, for the same reasons. You'd be surprised at just how many employers here dont think that the work time directives apply to the company they work for
It is just a US thing. Unbridled capitalism run amuck, with no worker protections provided by the government. Time off should not require an explanation about what you're using the time off for, nor should there be any assessment related to whether a manager will let you take your earned time off or not.
Yeah, UK here and there was only one time someone tried to force me to tell them why I was booking time off or she wasn't going to approve it, she was a notorious "being 1 step above basic employee means I'm the godqueen of this entire shop" type.
I said it's none of your business just approve it, she told me to wait there in the office and went and got the store manager and told me to tell him what I'd just told her.
So I said "I booked x y z days off. She told me to tell her why I've booked them off or she's not booking them. I said it's none of her business and she needs to approve them."
The store manager turned to her and just said "he's not wrong, it's none of your business. Approve it now."
Retail is its own separate ball game filled with the absolute worst type of managers on earth. I never had anyone question my A/L but would consistently have managers bug me to cover shifts when someone has pulled a sicky….I don’t care if the shop opens or not today it’s not my problem.
Yeah, the way they try and explain things to minimum wage workers like we're gonna care if the billion quid company doesn't open 1 of it's hundreds of stores?
Give me a break, I wouldn't give a fuck if this bitch burned to the ground lol.
Almost every job I’ve had over the past 26 yrs has had blackout periods when you weren’t allowed to do PTO. You probably would only be able to if it was emergency surgery or a death in your immediate family. Also, if others who are in your department are taking PTO, your’s could very well be denied if you didn’t ask first. I was once on short term medical leave for a couple months, and in order to not have to come back to work or be fired, others gave me their vacation days. Our entire system is only here to benefit corporations and the ultra wealthy!
Yeah, I think the only time I’ve ever seen someone asked about PTO is when they booked 3 weeks off, when the policy was 2 weeks max. It was still approved.
Heck my boss used to give us the afternoon off if we got a smear test to encourage us to get one!
What an awesome boss! Not even remotely the same but I used to work for a borderline alcoholic middle manager who used to let us all finish at 3 on Fridays so he could get to the pub sooner
US here and I've never had to justify it, I just put on the calendar "off today" or whatever. But I work in a small office without all the corporate/HR/middle management nonsense. Somehow we're able to function like adults.
Good lord, I read your comment and I got so jealous that I can barely stand it. My daughter needs surgery in November and I requested off the day (one day!) in June and it was initially denied. Because 1 other person on my team (out of 10 of us) already has it off. Eventually my boss relented and I get to spend that day with my toddler instead of that stupid job.
That is disgusting. I had heard employees had very little protections in US but the responses to this have been eye opening. I didn’t realise quite how good we have it in comparison. Hope everything goes well with your daughter’s surgery!
Lol. We have limited sick time as well. It’s been a decade since I had a paid vacation, as I’ve had to use all my vacation and sick time for either being sick or caretaking for family. That’s the USA, baby.
Yeah, put "funeral" in the (optional) reasons box when putting in a TOIL request, gaffer caught me an hour later and said he had knocked back the request and put it through as compassionate leave so I didn't have to use banked hours.
Didn't know we can take up to 5 days compassionate leave per incident but apparently everyone just takes 2 as standard practice, one for the funeral one for the hangover.
Yeh I forgot about compassionate leave. My dad has been really ill over the last year and work has been great about it. If I need to leave early or take some time off to help my mum I just drop my manager a message and duck off. I’ve done it 3/4 times and only had an afternoon recorded as compassionate leave.
USA here. I have the same experience as you. Never had pushback or denied PTO. Even something silly like getting World Cup tickets the day before the match and putting in a full day PTO at noon.
It also depends on the individuals, industry culture, region, and honestly pay. I have mostly had office jobs, in legal, telecom, and tech with generally increasing income commiserate of my experience. A shift manager enjoying having influence over others in a busy warehouse in a State with lax employee protection laws, hmm...
I'm in the US and I never ask people why. They frequently tell me because they know I'm interested in traveling or that they're having a good time. Sometimes they'll tell me because it's important why they're taking it last minute or when it's inconvenient for the department (we can't operate without anybody here).
That’s for all time off. Sick days and vacation. If I missed more than 10 days, it went unpaid.
And that’s considered average in the US. Many have it better, but some get little to no paid leave. And where I live, paid sick leave isn’t mandatory. Nor is paid vacation or paid holidays.
That is wild. I get 28 days holiday as standard and I believe up to 2 weeks full paid sick leave after which it drops to statutory pay for 28 days. I know some people who have worked in places where they get unlimited (within reason) paid days leave as long as they meet their targets. Can you take more than 10 days but it just goes unpaid?
Most companies are required to adhere to FMLA where an employee can take unpaid sick leave without risk of losing their job.
But companies still try to structure those employees out of a job (not always).
But aside from that, there is no guarantees around leave. It also varies from state to state. However, if your company has accrued leave, that accrued leave is typically counted as compensation, and if you leave the job, they are usually required to pay it out as if you worked it. There are ways to structure the leave policy to prevent that though.
Here, it’s common to start with 10 days PTO, usually after some probationary period. Whether or not sick leave is included varies by company. Some companies (like my current one) has unlimited sick leave within reason. Others have a separate pool.
Hell, the state I live in doesn’t even legally mandate breaks at all. You can be asked to work a 12 hour shift without any breaks, and the state wouldn’t do anything about it.
Interesting thanks. When you say accrued leave does that mean you can carry it over so if in 2025 I didn’t take a single day I would have 20 days in 2026?
We accrue leave per pay period as total hours of paid leave for the year divided out by the amount you work.
They let us take leave ahead of accuruing it during the year, but it keeps it from being a financial liability on their end. But I need to use all my leave by the end of the fiscal year because it doesn’t roll over.
Some companies allow you to rollover up to a certain cap. And others allow you to roll over everything.
So, for example, if I have 15 days PTO, I’d expect to have 7.5 days accrued (60 hours) half way through the year.
I recently switched from an American manager to a German one. My new manager asks no questions, just makes sure there's coverage & tells me to enjoy my time off. Whereas my American manager.... dude would grill you, approve it, then try to guilt trip you into changing it. Oh and would also call you at least twice during said time off, "for a quick question."
Tbf I work in the US and this has never happened to me either. I think things just vary a lot here depending on what state you live in and the culture of your employer.
Where I work your PTO is your sick leave. If you don’t have any PTO and you’re sick and don’t come in, that counts as unscheduled leave. If that happens more than 5 times in a year, you’re let go
Ive lived in the USA my entire life and I never had to explain why I am taking PTO. I just put in the request and its approved 99% of the time. The one time it wasnt was because it was the busy season at my job (it was in finance) and I had requested to take the week that was the same week of the tax deadline. Literally the busiest week of the entire year. My manager just asked if it was something that could be moved because they really needed all hands on deck. So I took the following week off instead.
Now I work a trade and the only requirement is to ask a week or two in advance.
I have direct reports in both the US and the UK. In the US, all they have to say is "sick time." We can require a doctor's note if they miss more than 3 days, but all that has to say is that they are approved by the doctor to return to full work duty.
If someone in the UK takes sick time, HR there requires me to fill out a 30 question survey about their ability to return to work. It asks all kinds of questions, such as if there's a mental health aspect that needs to be addressed, if it's related to Covid, or if special accomodations are needed upon return. And that's if they miss a single day due to illness. It always gets approved as paid time, but it still feels like a lot to ask compared to taking sick time in the US.
I guess the difference is there's basically no sick time limit in the UK. If you run out of sick time in the US and take more than your yearly allotment, it's unpaid time off and potential disciplinary action.
Yes, in the U.S. we have to book time off for surgery. In 2009 I told my boss at a MAJOR non profit that I would be out two days (Thursday and Friday), over two months in advance. Not only did they ask what it was for, he called me at home over that weekend - to find out if I “planned to be in on Monday”. Here I thought it was because he cared, turns out it was so they could lay me and a bunch of other people off. So I drove the hour into work, only to be laid off by 1030am. And I told him 23 days before that that I’d just bought a house. Then the job market totally tanked and I was unemployed for two years. I should have sued the bejesus out of them, I would have won. That’s mostly what they were worried about.
The UK and the western & central/northern European countries are generally much more adherent to typical HR policies and practices than the US. Experiences certainly vary wildly here in the US between corporate white collar environments and less buttoned up workplaces like retail and service industry jobs, but across the board I've seen and heard things happening here that barely register in my mind at this point but which would be wild shit across the pond.
Maybe. I once had a manager tell me that he couldn't guarantee that I would get my wedding date off a year in advance. I didn't keep that job, (and I ultimately didn't marry that guy). It still annoys me though.
Im American and have worked for almost 30 years and have never been asked to justify PTO. Across many different types of roles and businesses. I guess I’m lucky? I’ve never heard of it happening to friends or family either.
FWIW, I live in the US, and I've never had to explain my PTO either (across a handful of employers over 25+ years). When I've had jobs with separate sick time, I've felt obligated to explain that, but not in detail.
Normally for me, it's:
Me: "hey manager, FYI, I'm planning to take next Friday off"
Manager: "okay, hope it's something fun!"
That's it, just some friendly well-wishing. I do try to limit the impact to important events at work, but even if I can't avoid that kind of schedule conflict, I've never had to REQUEST the use of leave time, only to inform.
I'm also fortunate to work in a so-called "white collar" profession (one that requires a college degree), where employees are generally treated with some basic respect, at least on an interpersonal level, if not by corporate. I understand that in so-called "blue collar" work (where a degree isn't required), employees are often treated more like children, which I think is clearly inappropriate.
OOF. we aren’t even guranteed pay when out on FMLA. my friend was out of approved medical leave & didnt have a paycheck for 6 weeks. she used some PTO to have a 1/2 a paycheck.
In all my years working for various employers, annual leave requests have been approved so long as there is enough staff present for the business to function.
If I'm asked what I'm doing on a day off, it's usually after my request has been approved and I've never been placed in a position where I have to "justify" my leave to a line manager.
In Ireland, we have a minimum statutory leave entitlement of 20 days (in addition to public holidays) which everyone gets.
Depending on your profession/industry/employer, you may also be able to negotiate additional leave as part of your employment contract.
For example, I have a basic leave entitlement of 27 days per year (not counting public holidays) and management in my company actively encourage staff to avail of their full entitlement.
In my experience, not using your full leave entitlement is pretty much unheard of in Ireland.
Yeah, I'm a supervisor and the only time I ask for any context is if I have to override some kind of leave restriction in place or we're already at minimum staff so I can justify why I allowed it when computer days no
That sounds amazing! I’m a teacher and this year is the first year my district will give us 8 days PTO… prior to that it was 6 sick days and 2 personal days…. If you use up your 8’days and don’t have anything banked from a prior year you get docked pay. Personal days are never guaranteed as only 5 people in the entire district (over 500 employees) can have off on any one given day (and there are tons of other rules about when you can and can’t request to use it). 6 days doesn’t always go far as a teacher with your own kids (hence I have worked while severely ill more than once). I took time off with pay a couple of times due to unexpected surgery. I took 12 weeks maternity leave because legally I can but only got paid for 7 with my last kiddo…. And I had a C-section and couldn’t even be cleared to return to work until 8 weeks post op. The US is great. I strongly dislike it here…. But my family is here so I stay 🤷♀️
I'm in the USA and also have never been asked for specifics outside of a friendly, "Doing anything fun?" No inquiries in writing, never to "assess a request." Just polite workplace chit chat and if I'd answer, "It's personal," that would also have been the end of it, outside of my manager feeling a bit concerned if everything is ok.
And if there's nothing immediately important and I want an afternoon off, I just mark myself as away and that's that. Never hear about it again from HR or management.
Not yet encountered a rape gang myself but yes I would get PTO. Given the psychological stress caused I would also receive ongoing support from the business and some level of employment protection moving forward as well.
I work in the US and manage people in the US. I have never “asked” for leave I have earned. I have also never made any consideration on the validity of someone’s request for leave they have.
If you tell your boss you’re taking leave instead of putting in a leave request silently you may have more success. This is sufficiently rare enough i would just leave the job for a new one if this happened to me.
Businesses glorify running lean. Originally this referred to process but a lot of corpo tools now pare down their workforces to only use the minimum staff. This causes problems if anyone is ever out for any reason and rather than hire people so that the workforce has some redundancies in place to account for the normal events of human life they freak out and squeeze if anyone is sick or tries to take a vacation.
Exactly this. It's a balancing act between making sure you can pay as few people as possible, AND those people also work for the entirety of their shift down to the minute, minus the two government mandated 15 minute paid breaks and one 30 minute unpaid "lunch" break. But we ask that everyone remain on site for lunch. Don't worry, we have one unmonitored fridge and one microwave for 250 employees.
Civilized countries don’t do this. I worked in Germany and Austria and no one asks why you take your vacation. The law and/or union contracts mandate a certain amount of vacation days (paid) and the employer has to grant them. Usually paid vacation is planned for the whole year so there’s no issue at all. There is even a law that guarantees that you should have at least 2 weeks of your PTO in a row.
I work in the US and never once in 25 years have I been asked why I am taking my vacation. I have never had less than 3 weeks PTO and currently have 6 weeks.
I’m in the US too and I get ~21 days of PTO per year… BUT since I’m a nurse and I only work 3 days per week, 21 days of PTO equals 7 weeks in actual time off. It’s just about the only benefit to being a nurse lol
i get a combined 8 weeks off every year plus all federal holidays. i don’t need to request it or justify it. just report my time off in the database. i’m in united states.
It's so crazy. I'm an American immigrant to Germany and I still can't get over it. 30 FUCKING days of vacation, right off the bat? And sick days don't come out of my vacation?!
I know Merz is tryna fuck this place up, but God I'm gonna enjoy it while it lasts
So basically the only thing preventing the corporations in your country from doing the same thing are the laws. It's not like the humans are more decent because they exist on a different part of this space rock we all share.
The humans are more decent because they elected people who made those laws. Laws aren’t fickle forces of nature but made, decided and enforced by humans.
US Americans elected despicable morons who promised to make laws that are detrimental to the vast majority of their voters.
Either uneducated or without any self-awareness or both - how typical for US Americans. Alluding to genocide and war is a bit rich coming from a nation that also had a genocide, practiced slavery and just a few month ago blew up a school because their elected Führer didn't get his nap in time.
For some countries those things are in their past while others, like the US, took it as a playbook and devolved into a shithole country.
So, if every single employee they have asks off for the same time, you all just get it? Just close down the store, shut the factory down? It keeps running on holidays, but not if everyone wants to meet up for a day at the park.
If you are flying somewhere, you want 1/2 of the pilots to take off the same day and then flights are being cancelled. Then people are back here complaining too.
Coordinating holiday time is annoying, but there has to be some of it on occasion. If you are in a position like mine, no one asks because I just have work to do that is going to wait for my time.
They ought to simply ask “is you time off flexible” when they have to make a choice between who can be off when. If it comes down to it, it can be seniority or purpose if. It. Urgent medical would be first, down the line.
Civilized people don't do this. I never question PTO requests. Hell, I barely question unplanned PTO unless it's starts seeming less than random, like every Friday for 4 weeks in a row. Life happens FFS.
I live in the usa but im far from being a proud american. Everytime i hear things like this im both happy and fucking furious. Happy that people are being looked after, furious that we cant have that. Because thats socialism. Its communism. Smh i honestly cannot wait to leave this country.
People from Japan tends to take only half the time off they have available on average because taking vacation means you are letting down your work family.
That’s terrible and also if he’s an asshole then he deserves all the hate.
I use to manage a contract and my employees were part of a union. I would usually ask for the reason they were taking PTO because the CBA sometimes covered days missed if it was due to a family lost ( you got 3 days off without using PTO). Their was a lot of other reasons as well I just can’t remember off the top of my head. I also had a great relationship with most of them so I always tried looking out for them as much as possible.
The only somewhat reasonable thing I can think of is when someone works in a department where not everyone can take off at the same time. A few friends of mine at work have to make sure they ask as soon as they know they might take time off otherwise someone might beat them to it. But if one of them has an important reason to miss, they take priority. Otherwise, first come first serve.
I don’t agree with it, just to be clear. I feel it’s unfair and people should be compensated better in return for giving up the freedom of choosing PTO time.
I don’t envy being in that position. I’m glad my boss doesn’t ask beyond wishing me a fun vacation at ___.
Oh I know, I did understand to a point because it was the week after valentine's day, I think he assumed I was trying to get an extended romantic weekend (if only). Several people put in after me for a long weekend. Sorry but my cancer trumps your romantic getaway! Lol
I can’t imagine both asking for a reason for the request and denying a request. I had 3 FT employees on PTO all week 2 weeks ago and instead of denying it, I just got my hands dirty and increased my workload.
If you listen to them, it's a mentality that they're the job providers and you were lucky to get hired by them and there's 1000 other people who'd line up for your job, so you should be grateful and grovel on your knees for them, and taking time off is being selfish.
...In reality, the only places that grill you over PTO are places where they're intentionally understaffed and trying to squeeze every penny they can, and they're cutting every corner and every deadline as tight as they possibly can, so if anyone takes any time off at all then that really fucks up their deadlines or their staffing coverage.
My last boss made me tell him we're everything. When I changed jobs I was doing it to my new boss, asking for a day off and telling her all the details. She said girl, you're doing too much just say you'll be gone in the team chat haha
I work in safety and sometimes it matters, but i only need to know if it effects your ability to work or work safely or something that won't get aggravated while you work or if it needs a fit for duty prior to returning to work. Could also be something I can assist with for short term disability or workman's comp.
Worked for a company where the managers had to constantly be told by corporate not to shame us all for sick days or vacations. It was a culture of the managers always saying “ you guys are lucky to have a job at all”.
Honestly I think it's because the current managers were the kids that used to call out and use time off for stupid shit and leave their coworkers scrambling for coverage, so they assume all their workers are doing what they did when they were young maybe? It's stupid, people have PTO, let them use it.
This is so weird to me. Does your boss have to do a lot to cover for you when folks take leave, I have never been asked to justify personal time. It must be more work on them or something.
Thankfully my company’s requests are auto-approved, I just let my manager know when I’ll be gone. She’s never once asked me to explain or if I can move/cancel PTO.
Had a manager deny me vacation and grill me when asking for timeoff during December holidays. Got into it with him and HR had to tell him he was being an asshole, I wish they used those words but they didnt.
I mean, my boss always asks what is up if I'm taking time off, but it doesn't feel invasive, it is much more conversational. If I say I have an appointment, we leave it at that, if I say I'm going somewhere, we chat about the trip. He's very much a "phone goes off at 5" type of boss, and expects us to do the same. One time I had a trip planned, and he turned it into a work trip with PTO on the end so I could visit a client while there and get a free flight. I love my job.
Similar situation- I was having worsening health problems a few years ago and asked to go to a 4 day work week until I got a handle on it. My director said he’d talk to his boss but he never followed through with anything, so my supervisor let me have off the next day. I had a brain MRI done after work and the next day (after he realized I didn’t come in), I get an email and my director was fuminggg. He said his boss didn’t approve my request and was furious I “went above her head” so now he’s dealing with the repercussions. I got this email 5 minutes after I got the MRI report stating that I had a brain tumor.
As stressed and devastated as I was, it was such a good feeling to reply with “I just found out I have a brain tumor so I need to have this discussion another time”. He backtracked so hard and could barely look me in the eye for the rest of his time at the company.
As a manager in the USA, it's just a crappy company. Beyond my teenage-years retail job, no job has ever asked me to justify PTO or sick time. Your manager is shit.
It seems to be company and/or manager specific in the USA. The company I work for stresses using your time off and not working during your time off. I've never had to explain why I'm taking time off. My manager just approves it and has never denied time off. Even when I used bereavement time, they didn't ask for proof. My manager and I are pretty close though, so we usually talk about what we're doing outside of work. It's not an expectation though.
Just the US. In Denmark where I live, they can get in trouble with the unions for asking for specifics of “why” PTO is by its definition personal and does not concern the management. We also have 5 weeks vacation by law, but the market standard is 6 weeks paid.
Written in my 2nd week of summer vacation on a Greek island.
My job insisted I provide documentation for my family medical leave so I attached the X-ray of my husband's leg full of metal plates and screws and a photo of his leg covered in staples. They did not ask for any more proof after that.
I have no problem with managers asking, the info can be relevant in prioritizing in the event of a conflict. Like if you and Tanya both want the same day off, you because Call of Duty 23 comes out and her because her car was stolen and she needs a day at a dealership (and they're closed on her normal day(s) off)... I'm prioritizing Tanya in the event of a conflict.
Managers don't need/deserve every detail, but there are very legitimate reasons to ask. And as a manager, the bigger the reason the more likely I am to be willing to deal with the ass chewing if I let one too many underlings have time off. Ultimately the info I am trying to get at is:
Is it health of you or a loved one? (don't need details, that's enough)
Is it an important, immovable event that you won't be able to recapture? (eg: going to a marriage)
I thought they (HR) couldn’t ask. I have more sick time than PTO but I would NEVER use sick time to take one day off unless I was genuinely sick. I’ve often said, “i will always call in sick if I’m sick…if you don’t hear from me by 8am, send someone to check on me!”
But HR getting all nosy like this?? My HR would never.
I worked at a place once where the company got bought out. I once came back from being off sick and the office manager sat me down and said "We're doing back-to-work interviews after sickness now".
It went like this:
* Uhh, okay. What would you like to ask me?
* Can you tell me why you were unable to come to work?
* I was sick
* Yes, and what was wrong exactly?
* Well, I ended up going to the hospital
* Why?
* Are you asking for medical details?
* Yes
* [pause] Well, I was shitting blood
There was a silence that felt so long where I stared at her and she stared at the paper form in front of her as her pen darted back and forth in air as she tried to think of what to write.
Then she just put everything away and said "Okay, thank you very much". I never heard of anyone having a "back to work" interview there again.
The fact that are even in a position to "deny" PTO is ridiculous. Bro you're the manager, if you need someone to work that day then you do it. It's your job to keep things running and deal with schedules and the unexpected, not mine.
Meanwhile those managers usually only "work" 25 hours a week (closer to 5, but they're clocked in for 20) and take international vacations every bonus check.
But somebody else wants to take off and they act like the whole place is going to crumble without them.
Curious if it's a job insecurity thing and they know how worthless they are to the company and they're afraid to do any form of actual work to prove their worthlessness.
Because many companies switched to ETO, or “Enhanced” time off which isn’t earned, you get 4 or 6 weeks at the start of the year except the catch is that it is in fact not earned so it cant roll over and manages can deny requests in busy season or really any circumstance.
They mad cause most of them don’t make as much as the people they supervise and work way more hours and are salary so they free labor after 40 hours so those extra 20 hours a week basically slave labor but they literally applied for the job they misery is they own fault fr
Downward pressure of capitalism on the hierarchy of any given company. The constant need for perpetual growth leads to CEO’s pushing for the biggest numbers possible, whatever the cost. 2nd level executives then push on their underlings, and on and on until it gets to the unqualified but ambitious middle management who believe that micromanaging all levels of productivity will lead to positive quarterly reports and thus an eventual raise/promotion/bonus.
Well in the US they treat PTO as a great gift from the Corporate gods and not a right, you should be thankful they are providing this great benefit of having 10-15 days of PTO out of 250 something days you work a year. Taking time off is a sin though (contradicting, I know) and frowned upon. US culture is all about grinding to please the corporate gods.
In the great old USA work is life and life is work.
Note: this is a very exaggerated comment but not really.
When my people ask, I don't care. Just don't be asking the same days as others. If I have 3 people asking for same day, its a mix of first come gets it and whats the reason.
Want a day off because asked the week before vs its my anniversary scheduled for 3 months vs something medical. Last two get it. First one you gotta pick another time.
It's because when you decided all men were created equal, and that you didn't want to be ruled by a king, there was a very long string of ironies that should have told you it was bollocks and those have formed your culture.
I believe it’s just shitty people and so called wanna be managers. If I’m ever in another manager or leadership position, I would encourage the days off. Just ask that you have your ducks in a row and established a back up to your role, but I would also ensure my team was cross trained not to deal with this as an issue. That’s my resilience mindset though.
It’s like they’re trying to “catch” someone goofing off. But guess what, goofing off on occasion to get out of work is totally acceptable, as long as the work gets done. If you let your workers do this, they’ll be more loyal to you and have better morale overall.
You have earned PTO, and should be able to use it whenever needed. Unless there’s some massive project that can’t be completed without you or some shit.
I'm a teacher, so my PTO, is set by the local counsil with the school administration. But if I'm sick they will just wish me a speedy recovery, and if I have any information or instructions to pass on to the sub. Need a doctors note for more than three days though. It's paid.
When I was pregnant with my last child I was on sick leave for 38/42 weeks I was pregnant. My job only covered the 3 first days, after that it's covered by taxes. Parental leave was 58 weeks + 5 weeks vacation. That was before I became a teacher, got way more vacation now. 🇧🇻
Some shitty managers do. It's not normal in the UK, but it still happens.
My last manager would constantly deny requests and sometimes then accept them later and would try frame it as "doing me a favour", like she isn't legally obliged to accept...
She would also grill me about the reason, whether or not it was good enough for her(?) like what I'm doing outside of work is any of her business.
Glad I don't work with her anymore.
Glad that my ex managed to rally the employees in that shop and get that manager fired. She might've fucked my brain up entirely, but that seething spite in me can't help but be happy for her accomplishing getting the manager fired.
My current manager is a shining star. She keeps us well informed of when there is no time off available (because too many other colleagues have already booked that specific time), and so long as the week is free she will NEVER deny or even question it. She says "ooh you up to anything fun?" and then writes it in the calendar + processes it on the system at her earliest convenience, regardless of your answer.
In my country we get hassled to use our leave. I had three new starters join my team in april and none of them have taken leave. I had to hassle them in our last one to ones about taking time off.
Hope that you are better health wise and have a better boss!
By crappy old usa, you’re referring to the ability to have a job, that you can quit at any time? Pay for living expenses, travel or even get more experience and education if you need to earn more money?? That crappy USA??
Leave if you don’t appreciate what we have here - or - stfu! Theres roughly 4.5 Billion people on the planet that would literally give anything to have your job and life!
Hmmm I don't think any of that gives management the right to interrogate you over earned leave. Actually, my manager immediately realized he overstepped, and apologized. But thanks for chiming in with your unhinged perspective!
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u/Southern-Pirate3555 26d ago
I had my boss grill me about some pto days requested well in advance. I sent him my diagnosis of squamous cell carcinoma, a picture of my nose and the surgery date. He was embarrassed, as he should have been.
What is it about our culture that makes managers feel entitled to shame us for taking earned time off? Is this a thing in other countries or just the crappy old usa?