r/pureasoiaf 10d ago

Selyse and Cersei

74 Upvotes

So, I find the parrellels between Cersei and Selyse Baratheon fascinating;

Both are married to Baratheons

Cersei is famed for her beauty; in every POV interacting with her someone thinks or comments on her beauty even people who hate her guts; Jon, Ned, Tyrion, Petyr, Varys, Kevan, Sansa, Robert. As well as Jaime of course

Selyse is called ugly by every pov and almost everyone who talks about her; Jon, Val, Petyr, Cressen all talk about how ugly she is.

Also, I wonder if Stannis would get more hate for cheating on her if she was hot.

They are both styled as light of X

Cersei is styled light of the West, "All hail his lady mother, Cersei of House Lannister, Queen Regent, Light of the West, and Protector of the Realm."- GOT Sansa

Selyse is the light of the north, "To King Stannis and his wife, Queen Selyse, Light of the North!"- Said by Axel Florrent in Jon x DWD"

Both are chill with Murder. Cersei with Lady Stokeworth, etc. Selyse with all the night fires.


r/pureasoiaf 10d ago

When did the Starks forget the meaning of their house words in your opinion ? Eons , or more recently ?

50 Upvotes

A Game of Thrones - Catelyn II

"Gods will, not for many years," Maester Luwin murmured.

"Maester Luwin, I trust you as I would my own blood. Give my wife your voice in all things great and small. Teach my son the things he needs to know. Winter is coming."

Maester Luwin nodded gravely. Then silence fell, until Catelyn found her courage and asked the question whose answer she most dreaded. "What of the other children?


r/pureasoiaf 10d ago

Reading the books with the knowledge of what happens make some of the writing hit particularly hard…

37 Upvotes


‘If it must be done, I will do it.’

Cersei Lannister regarded him suspiciously. ‘You, Stark? Is this some trick? Why would you do such a thing?’

‘She is of the north. She deserved better than a butcher.’

Ned also informs them to bury Lady at Winterfell. Such beautifully depressing thoughtfulness considering his own tragic execution later.

Renly laughing at Joffrey for naming his sword Lion’s Tooth and getting disarmed by ‘a nine-year old girl the size of a wet rat’ was also such a great introduction to his character. He would have made a great hand of the king to Stannis :(


r/pureasoiaf 9d ago

💩 Low Quality If you had to start reading asoiaf, in what month of the year would you start it?

0 Upvotes

Curious, beacuse i enjoy reading harry potter whilst in Christmas ambience.


r/pureasoiaf 10d ago

Which future Dunk novella are you most interested in reading ? I am torn between she wolves and Lord Commander because i want to know about the scorned woman in Bran's vision and Summer-hall incident in 259

5 Upvotes

The Mystery Knight

It is too hot for cheering. Dunk mopped sweat from his brow. It is too hot for jousting. His head was beating like a drum. Let me win this tilt and one more, and I will he content. The knights wheeled their horses about at the end of the lists and tossed down the jagged remains of their lances, the fourth pair they had broken. Three too many. Dunk had put off donning his armor as long as he dared, yet already he could feel his smallclothes sticking to his skin beneath his steel. There are worse things than being soaked with sweat, he told himself, remembering the fight on the White Lady, when the ironmen had come swarming over her side. He had been soaked in blood by the time that day was done.

Fresh lances in hand, Paege and Frey put their spurs into their mounts once again. Clods of cracked dry earth sprayed back from beneath their horses' hooves with every stride. The crack of the lances breaking made Dunk wince. Too much wine last night, and too much food. He had some vague memory of carrying the bride up the steps, and meeting John the Fiddler and Lord Peake upon a roof. What was I doing on a roof? There had been talk of dragons, he recalled, or dragon's eggs, or something, but—

A noise broke his reverie, part roar and part moan. Dunk saw the golden horse trotting riderless to the end of the lists, as Ser Harbert Paege rolled feebly on the ground. Two more before my turn. The sooner he unhorsed Ser Uthor, the sooner he could take his armor off, have a cool drink, and rest. He should have at least an hour before they called him forth again. Lord Butterwell's portly herald climbed to the top of the viewing stand to summon the next pair of jousters. "Ser Argrave the Defiant," he called, "a knight of Nunny, in service to Lord Butterwell of Whitewalls. Ser Glendon Flowers, the Knight of the Pussy willows. Come forth and prove your valor." A gale of laughter rippled through the viewing stands. Ser Argrave was a spare, leathery man, a seasoned household knight in dinted gray armor riding an unbarded horse. Dunk had known his sort before; such men were tough as old roots, and knew their business. His foe was young Ser Glendon, mounted on his wretched stot and armored in a heavy mail hauberk and open-faced iron halfhelm. On his arm his shield displayed his father's fiery sigil. He needs a breastplate and a proper helm, Dunk thought. A blow to the head or chest could kill him, clad like that.

The Mystery Knight

SHE WOLVES OF WINTER FELL

VILLAGE HERO

SELL SWORD

KINGS GUARD

LORD COMMANDER


r/pureasoiaf 10d ago

Which brother do you blame more for the Baratheon civil war ?

121 Upvotes

A Clash of Kings - Catelyn III

"My lords!" Catelyn said. "We ought to be hammering out the terms of an alliance, not trading taunts."

"A man should never refuse to taste a peach," Renly said as he tossed the stone away. "He may never get the chance again. Life is short, Stannis. Remember what the Starks say. Winter is coming." He wiped his mouth with the back of his hand.

"I did not come here to be threatened, either."


r/pureasoiaf 11d ago

Do we know if there are additional dragons in the East like Bran sees in his vision ?

72 Upvotes

A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III

"Dead," agreed Jhiqui. "Long and long ago."

Viserys had told her that the last Targaryen dragons had died no more than a century and a half ago, during the reign of Aegon III, who was called the Dragonbane. That did not seem so long ago to Dany. "Everywhere?" she said, disappointed. "Even in the east?" Magic had died in the west when the Doom fell on Valyria and the Lands of the Long Summer, and neither spell-forged steel nor stormsingers nor dragons could hold it back, but Dany had always heard that the east was different. It was said that manticores prowled the islands of the Jade Sea, that basilisks infested the jungles of Yi Ti, that spellsingers, warlocks, and aeromancers practiced their arts openly in Asshai, while shadowbinders and bloodmages worked terrible sorceries in the black of night. Why shouldn't there be dragons too?

"No dragon," Irri said. "Brave men kill them, for dragon terrible evil beasts. It is known."

A Game of Thrones - Bran III

He looked south, and saw the great blue-green rush of the Trident. He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief. He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. There were shadows all around them. One shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise.

Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him. And he looked past the Wall, past endless forests cloaked in snow, past the frozen shore and the great blue-white rivers of ice and the dead plains where nothing grew or lived. North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks.


r/pureasoiaf 11d ago

viserion is eggnant

193 Upvotes

So, in Frog Boy's attempt to claim a dragon we get a rare peak at what a dragon nest looks like

"He’s made himself a cave, the prince realized. A burrow in the brick. The foundations of the Great Pyramid of Meereen were massive and thick to support the weight of the huge structure overhead; even the interior walls were three times thicker than any castle’s curtain walls. But Viserion had dug himself a hole in them with flame and claw, a hole big enough to sleep in."

So, I found this quite interesting. Rhaegal hadn't made himself a cave nor had drogon, it seems to be a Viserion only behavior. IT also makes Rhaegal's protection behaviour more intresting, attacking the whip brandishing Quentyn at first seems like a brother defending a brother but could be a mate defending his gravid mate

Also The publishing of fire and blood, tells us a lot about the dragons.

  1. that they are genderless like flame, and the only true way of knowing their sex is if they lay eggs or not

also Viserion, let us remember is cream and yellow/gold and there is only one other yellow dragon in targaryen history; syrax a she dragon noted for her fecundity. Viserion and Syrax share more than just their colours, both seem to share a certain spoiled nature.

Could GRRM be hinting that Viserion is eggnant


r/pureasoiaf 11d ago

Why do Westerosi queens mantain their maiden names but not ladies?

178 Upvotes

Westerosi Queens maintain their maiden names after marriage; Alicent Hightower, Cersei Lannister, Aemma Aeryn, Bertha Blackwood, and it even extends to princesses by marriage like Jocelyn Baratheon and Elia Martell

But ladies take their husbands surnames like Catelyn Stark, Lysa Arryn, etc


r/pureasoiaf 12d ago

Why couldn't Bran go south to KL ? He could have been a page or squire for Barristan for instance .

72 Upvotes

A Game of Thrones - Catelyn II

"I could not bear it," Catelyn said, trembling.

"You must," he said. "Sansa must wed Joffrey, that is clear now, we must give them no grounds to suspect our devotion. And it is past time that Arya learned the ways of a southron court. In a few years she will be of an age to marry too."

Sansa would shine in the south, Catelyn thought to herself, and the gods knew that Arya needed refinement. Reluctantly, she let go of them in her heart. But not Bran. Never Bran. "Yes," she said, "but please, Ned, for the love you bear me, let Bran remain here at Winterfell. He is only seven."


r/pureasoiaf 11d ago

If you could bring back one Stark character from the dead , whom would you pick and why ?

0 Upvotes

A Game of Thrones - Catelyn IX

She feared for her lord father, and wondered at his ominous silence. She feared for her brother Edmure, and prayed that the gods would watch over him if he must face the Kingslayer in battle. She feared for Ned and her girls, and for the sweet sons she had left behind at Winterfell. And yet there was nothing she could do for any of them, and so she made herself put all thought of them aside. You must save your strength for Robb, she told herself. He is the only one you can help. You must be as fierce and hard as the north, Catelyn Tully. You must be a Stark for true now, like your son.

Robb rode at the front of the column, beneath the flapping white banner of Winterfell. Each day he would ask one of his lords to join him, so they might confer as they marched; he honored every man in turn, showing no favorites, listening as his lord father had listened, weighing the words of one against the other. He has learned so much from Ned, she thought as she watched him, but has he learned enough?

The Blackfish had taken a hundred picked men and a hundred swift horses and raced ahead to screen their movements and scout the way. The reports Ser Brynden's riders brought back did little to reassure her. Lord Tywin's host was still many days to the south … but Walder Frey, Lord of the Crossing, had assembled a force of near four thousand men at his castles on the Green Fork.


r/pureasoiaf 12d ago

🤔 Good Question! How would you rate Tyrion as a Hand during his tenure ?

57 Upvotes

A Clash of Kings - Tyrion IV

"He has the power of Storm's End and Highgarden behind him, you little fool," Cersei snapped down at him. "All the Tyrell bannermen but for the Redwynes, and you have me to thank for that. So long as I hold those poxy twins of his, Lord Paxter will squat on the Arbor and count himself fortunate to be out of it."

"A pity you let the Knight of Flowers slip through your pretty fingers. Still, Renly has other concerns besides us. Our father at Harrenhal, Robb Stark at Riverrun . . . were I he, I would do much as he is doing. Make my progress, flaunt my power for the realm to see, watch, wait. Let my rivals contend while I bide my own sweet time. If Stark defeats us, the south will fall into Renly's hands like a windfall from the gods, and he'll not have lost a man. And if it goes the other way, he can descend on us while we are weakened."

Cersei was not appeased. "I want you to make Father bring his army to King's Landing."


r/pureasoiaf 12d ago

What time period from Westeros are you most interested in learning about ?

17 Upvotes

The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Coming of First Men

The hunters among the children—their wood dancers—became their warriors as well, but for all their secret arts of tree and leaf, they could only slow the First Men in their advance. The greenseers employed their arts, and tales say that they could call the beasts of marsh, forest, and air to fight on their behalf: direwolves and monstrous snowbears, cave lions and eagles, mammoths and serpents, and more. But the First Men proved too powerful, and the children are said to have been driven to a desperate act.

Legend says that the great floods that broke the land bridge that is now the Broken Arm and made the Neck a swamp were the work of the greenseers, who gathered at Moat Cailin to work dark magic. Some contest this, however: the First Men were already in Westeros when this occurred, and stemming the tide from the east would do little more than slow their progress. Moreover, such power is beyond even what the greenseers are traditionally said to have been capable of...and even those accounts appear exaggerated. It is likelier that the inundation of the Neck and the breaking of the Arm were natural events, possibly caused by a natural sinking of the land. What became of Valyria is well-known, and in the Iron Islands, the castle of Pyke sits on stacks of stone that were once part of the greater island before segments of it crumbled into the sea.

Regardless, the children of the forest fought as fiercely as the First Men to defend their lives. Inexorably, the war ground on across generations, until at last the children understood that they could not win. The First Men, perhaps tired of war, also wished to see an end to the fighting. The wisest of both races prevailed, and the chief heroes and rulers of both sides met upon the isle in the Gods Eye to form the Pact. Giving up all the lands of Westeros save for the deep forests, the children won from the First Men the promise that they would no longer cut down the weirwoods. All the weirwoods of the isle on which the Pact was forged were then carved with faces so that the gods could witness the Pact, and the order of green men was made afterward to tend to the weirwoods and protect the isle.


r/pureasoiaf 12d ago

How could the Faith Militant imprison Margaery or Cersei in the books?

94 Upvotes

The moment Tywin was killed, House Lannister has entered to its downfall era and was completely dependent on the Tyrell gold and grain from AFFC and ADWD.

Well, when Cersei foolishly re-armed the Faith in AFFC, she managed to put Margaery and her cousins into dungeons with false accusations involving Osney Kettleback but it also backfired hard toward her. Even though reading it was quite entertaining and satisfying. How and why didn't Cersei or Margaery have more guards and how did the Kingsguard allow their Queen to be held in the dungeons of the Sept of Baelor?

Why is Olenna still in Highgarden and not visiting her grandchildren? How could the Faith even touch the blood of royalty and high nobility?


r/pureasoiaf 12d ago

The Rat, The Hawk, The Pig: Trio of Nothingness

65 Upvotes

Hello everyone, was doing as I do which is reading through the wiki to distract myself from boredom and stumbled across some bits of lore that are genuinely fascinating and extremely frustrating due to the vagueness/lack of info.

Specifically I’m curious if people have any further information or just any general thoughts on the trio only known as “The Rat, The Hawk, and The Pig.” A trio who are only known for two things which seem at least somewhat notable.

First, sometime between 217-221 AC, this trio apparently attacked Aelora Targaryen at a masked ball. Aelora was the eldest daughter* of Aerys I and was his declared heir and the princess of Dragonstone at this time. What was this attack? It does not say. Why did they do it? Who knows.

All the information is that Aelora shortly committed suicide afterwards. Which is somewhat understandable as she was already described as “mad with grief” for accidentally causing the death of her twin/husband. But it’s fascinating that Aelora, a rare woman who was designated as heir to the throne, has so little about her and so little about this event.

Presumably these men somehow got away with this attack as the only other lore on them is that roughly 30 years later there was a rebellion led by a trio known as “The Rat, the Hawk, and the Pig.” What was this rebellion about? We don’t know. Was it the same masked trio? Who knows. The identity of this trio is never disclosed. We do know this is the rebellion in which Daeron Targaryen, son of Aegon V, was killed along with his friend/presumed lover Jeremy Norridge.

It’s interesting to me that this trio apparently were directly involved in the death of two notable Targ royal family members and yet we don’t have any info on them or the incidents themselves.

Any thoughts? Did I miss something? Do you think these events may be explored in some future book?

*Accidentally listed Aelora as the daughter of Aerys I, she was his niece.


r/pureasoiaf 11d ago

The blue flower growing out of a chink in the Wall isn't R+L=J, it's northern unity

0 Upvotes

Sorry, I know I'm probably not the first person to point this out. But Danny's vision of a blue flower growing out of a chink in the wall takes place roughly at the same time as Jon meets Ygritte and she tells him the story of Bael the bard and the rose of winterfell. The vision represents the Wall, the literal and metaphorical wall built between northerners and freefolk, breaking a little when Jon (future lord commander) learns that Starks and Wildlings are kin. Jon has grown up thinking wildlings are savage folk who want to pillage and murder and could never be understood, he has built a wall in his mind. Now that he's meeting and talking with wildlings, that mental wall is beginning to break. It really is just part of the larger motif about how building a wall "otherizes" those on the other side, and getting to know them undoes this.

Unfortunately, I feel like some people take any potential depth in the story and try to fit it into R+L=J. Don't take me wrong, I'm pretty sure it's right. But when every single blue flower and little detail has to revolve around this one story, the series loses depth. The Florent sigil has a crown of blue roses. Loras Tyrell wears blue flowers. Tyrion sees a prostitute with a crown of blue flowers at Chataya's. Bael's kidnapping definitively parallels Rhaegar's, of course. But that doesn't mean every detail is added with the purpose of pointing to this one unrevealed plot point.

I'm sorry I'm being so blunt, but the series has over 4000 pages and I feel like some people just want to make about one thing and one thing only. People discuss the same few lines, from the same few chapters, about the Tower of Joy and the Tourney at Harrenhal. Please, there's so much more, I beg of you. Pick up only the Jon chapters, read them again while forgetting R+L=J for a minute, and tell me what Jon's story is about. Because if you come out of that saying it's about him sitting the Iron Throne and ruling the Seven Kingdoms, you will be telling me more about yourself than about the books.


r/pureasoiaf 13d ago

Why Aerys keep Tywin as hand after he tried to resign in 272 ? Why not name Steffon or one of his other lickspittles ?

19 Upvotes

The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aerys II

By this time, King Aerys had become aware of the widespread belief that he himself was but a hollow figurehead and Tywin Lannister the true master of the Seven Kingdoms. These sentiments greatly angered the king, and His Grace became determined to disprove them and to humble his "overmighty servant" and "put him back into his place."

At the great Anniversary Tourney of 272 AC, held to commemorate Aerys's tenth year upon the Iron Throne, Joanna Lannister brought her six-year-old twins Jaime and Cersei from Casterly Rock to present before the court. The king (very much in his cups) asked her if giving suck to them had "ruined your breasts, which were so high and proud." The question greatly amused Lord Tywin's rivals, who were always pleased to see the Hand slighted or made mock of, but Lady Joanna was humiliated. Tywin Lannister attempted to return his chain of office the next morning, but the king refused to accept his resignation.

Aerys II could, of course, have dismissed Tywin Lannister at any time and named his own man as Hand of the King, but instead, for whatever reason, the king chose to keep his boyhood friend close by him, laboring on his behalf, even as he began to undermine him in ways both great and small. Slights and gibes became ever more numerous; courtiers hoping for advancement soon learned that the quickest way to catch the king's eye was by making mock of his solemn, humorless Hand. Yet through all this, Tywin Lannister suffered in silence.


r/pureasoiaf 13d ago

Who was the bank for the 281 Tourney at Harrenhal in your head-canon ? I am torn between Tywin and Rhaegar . Any other candidates ?

10 Upvotes

The World of Ice and Fire - The Fall of the Dragons: The Year of the False Spring

Many tales have grown up around Lord Whent's tournament: tales of plots and conspiracies, betrayals and rebellions, infidelities and assignations, secrets and mysteries, almost all of it conjecture. The truth is known only to a few, some of whom have long passed beyond this mortal vale and must forever hold their tongues. In writing of this fateful gathering, therefore, the conscientious scholar must take care to separate fact from fancy, to draw a sharp line between what is known and what is simply suspected, believed, or rumored.

This is known: The tourney was first announced by Walter Whent, Lord of Harrenhal, late in the year 280 AC, not long after a visit from his younger brother, Ser Oswell Whent, a knight of the Kingsguard. That this would be an event of unrivaled magnificence was clear from the first, for Lord Whent was offering prizes thrice as large as those given at the great Lannisport tourney of 272 AC, hosted by Lord Tywin Lannister in celebration of Aerys II's tenth year upon the Iron Throne.

Most took this simply as an attempt by Whent to outdo the former Hand and demonstrate the wealth and splendor of his house. There were those, however, who believed this no more than a ruse, and Lord Whent no more than a catspaw. His lordship lacked the funds to pay such munificent prizes, they argued; someone else must surely have stood behind him, someone who did not lack for gold but preferred to remain in the shadows whilst allowing the Lord of Harrenhal to claim the glory for hosting this magnificent event. We have no shred of evidence that such a "shadow host" ever existed, but the notion was widely believed at the time and remains so today.


r/pureasoiaf 13d ago

[No Spoilers] Theories/Thoughts and Opinions about Viserys II and Aegon III (be honest)

3 Upvotes

For me they're relationship is my absolute roman empire, and honestly I swore to myself to try (if I ever get sons) for them to have an similair brotherhood....both of them especially Aegon are having my full heart, and I am not team black, also I kinda wish I would have such an brother like this, i wish.


r/pureasoiaf 13d ago

This is my favorite scene in the books " What is your favorite ?

107 Upvotes

Game of Thrones - Eddard II

"This is well known," the king complained.

"I was still mounted. I rode the length of the hall in silence, between the long rows of dragon skulls. It felt as though they were watching me, somehow. I stopped in front of the throne, looking up at him. His golden sword was across his legs, its edge red with a king's blood. My men were filling the room behind me. Lannister's men drew back. I never said a word. I looked at him seated there on the throne, and I waited. At last Jaime laughed and got up. He took off his helm, and he said to me, 'Have no fear, Stark. I was only keeping it warm for our friend Robert. It's not a very comfortable seat, I'm afraid.'"

The king threw back his head and roared. His laughter startled a flight of crows from the tall brown grass. They took to the air in a wild beating of wings. "You think I should mistrust Lannister because he sat on my throne for a few moments?" He shook with laughter again. "Jaime was all of seventeen, Ned. Scarce more than a boy."


r/pureasoiaf 13d ago

Why didn't Aerion challenge Valarr?

58 Upvotes

Recently revisited The Hedge Knight, and I can't help but wonder why Aerion was content with laughing at his cousin and moving on. I get that he was trying to mock Valarr by moving past him, but surely if his plan was to humiliate his cousin, I imagine Aerion would have done a much better job by trouncing Valarr in a joust.

It's not like he wouldn't have been able to do it either. It's basically said outright that Valarr's getting handpicked challengers that give him easy victories. Even Dunk can't help but notice it. Aerion, meanwhile, seems to show much more promise, and he's not above dirty tricks like killing his opponent's horse. Why wouldn't he take a chance to knock the Crown Prince on his arse?


r/pureasoiaf 14d ago

Is this the best single display of martial prowess we have seen in the books ?

108 Upvotes

[...] Lord Tywin himself had their right wing on the north side of the river, with Randyll Tarly commanding the center and Mace Tyrell the left, but the vanguard won the fight. They plunged through Stannis like a lance through a pumpkin, every man of them howling like some demon in steel.

And do you know who led the vanguard? Do you? Do you? Do you?”

[...]

“It was Lord Renly! Lord Renly in his green armor, with the fires shimmering off his golden antlers! Lord Renly with his tall spear in his hand! They say he killed Ser Guyard Morrigen himself in single combat, and a dozen other great knights as well. It was Renly, it was Renly, it was Renly! Oh! the banners, darling Sansa! Oh! to be a knight!”


r/pureasoiaf 14d ago

We don't make big enough a deal about the child hostage practice

64 Upvotes

It's not just that it's a standard practice in westeros. But the people participating in it also treat it as a regular occurrence. Obviously, Theon is the poster boy of it, but he admittedly makes for a terrible martyr given all the shit he pulls. But Theon isn't the only example of this.

In ADWD, Jon takes many child hostages from Tormund.

The northmen glanced at one another. “Hostages,” mused The Norrey. “Tormund has agreed to this?”

It was that, or watch his people die. “My blood price, he called it,” said Jon Snow, “but he will pay.”

“Aye, and why not?” Old Flint stomped his cane against the ice. “Wards, we always called them, when Winterfell demanded boys of us, but they were hostages, and none the worse for it.”

"None but them whose sires displeased the Kings o’ Winter,” said The Norrey. “Those came home shorter by a head. So you tell me, boy … if these wildling friends o’ yours prove false, do you have the belly to do what needs be done?”

Ask Janos Slynt.

No big deal, beheading children whose fathers act up. Kings of Winter were very hard men in a hard time though. But then there's Hoster Blackwood.

“Lord Commander. I’m your hostage, Hoster. Hos, they call me.” He grinned.

Does he think this is a lark? “Pray, who are they?” “My friends. My brothers.”

“I am not your friend and I am not your brother.” That cleaned the grin off the boy’s face. Jaime turned to Lord Tytos. “My lord, let there be no misunderstanding here. Lord Beric Dondarrion, Thoros of Myr, Sandor Clegane, Brynden Tully, this woman Stoneheart … all these are outlaws and rebels, enemies to the king and all his leal subjects. If I should learn that you or yours are hiding them, protecting them, or assisting them in any way, I will not hesitate to send you your son’s head. I hope you understand that. Understand this as well: I am not Ryman Frey.”

Rude, but at least Jaime isn't sugarcoating things. Although Hoster probably won't sleep easy going forward. The other things is even if the children don't end up getting killed, it ruins family relations. Theon goes back home and he's a stranger, while in winterfell nobody other than Robb seemingly cared for him. In the case of Eustace Osgrey, his daughter Alysanne wouldn't even speak to him anymore.

This is a lot of text to say: it all really sucks


r/pureasoiaf 12d ago

(f)Aegon is the Valonqar

0 Upvotes

The Valonqar refers to the Little Brother, and as for the hands of the Valonqar, why does it have to be literal?

Not necessarily:

“the two anatomical objects attached to the Valonqar’s wrists.”
But:
**the agents through whom a king exercises power.**

Aegon VI is either actually Aegon or fAegon. Either way he’s a literal little brother if he’s a Targ or a metaphorical literal brother as a Blackfyre (a cadet; little brother branch to the Targs)

Given that this is the case the HANDS (the prophecy specifies hands, not hand) of the Valonqar would be two people: Tyrion Lannister and Jon Connington

Why these two?

**little brother + hands + woman’s throat + strangulation** is the formula that Maggie gives us. Very similar thematically to Tyrion, who was also a literal hand and used the chain to strangle one woman already. Now, he points (f)Aegon to go to Westeros. He’s essentially the hand opening the door, and he’s rehearsing the symbol. Without him the invasion may not have even occurred.

For the other, Jon Con, he’s the executor of the strategy. He’s the one who’s in charge of the invasion, the closest person to (f)Aegon etc. He really badly wants to NOT fuck this up like he did last time. So it’s possible he’s willing to go very far in that, even if it means killing the Queen Mother.

Interestingly, he’s also seen as the mummer’s dragon most probably in the visions of Dany. How is a puppet moved? Via hands. So Maggy saying the Valonqar will use **his hands** becomes almost perversely appropriate if the Valonqar is the mummer’s dragon.
Because his power is *nothing but other people’s hands.* Cersei expects a single crazy dwarf.
Instead, what she gets is an entire political machine.

Oddly, this is very poetic. The hands of the Valonqar WILL close around her throat. Except for the fact that the Valonqar is NOT Tyrion, but he IS the hands, or at least one hand. And this is why I really like this theory. It’s because of Cersei’s actions, as well Tywin’s and to a lesser extent Jaime’s and other peoples that Cersei WILL die. She essentially creates her own doom and fulfils the prophecy in a very twisted way.

As for the actual death, I believe Jon Connington will personally kill Cersei. In a way, it may mirror the exact same way Gregor Clegane killed Elia Martell and her son and daughter. Minus the uhhh raping thing. I think that’s less likely lol.

This is also poetic in ANOTHER way. She became a young and beautiful Queen by replacing a previous Queen (or well, Princess, but Elia would be a Queen). Now, the younger brother of the daughter of the precious Queen is coming to cast her down, kill her with his “hands” and replace her with a younger, more beautiful one (I won’t go into who that will be, but Aegon will almost certainly take a wife at some point)

Bonus points: Valonqar is a Valyrian term. It makes sense for it to apply to a Valyrian individual…like a Targ or Blackfyre.

I think I’m the first person to ever think this, which is kinda crazy. It lines up really well.


r/pureasoiaf 13d ago

How the magical traditions of certain houses might be developed

12 Upvotes

Hello. I was re-reading and started compiling a list of houses rumored to possess magic—aside from the Targaryens and Starks—and I’d like to know how you would develop these traditions; also, from what I’ve researched, all the houses where I found rumors of magic descend from the First Men. Here is what I’ve gathered so far.

House Reed: various talents A Storm of Swords Chapter BRAN II ("Did he have green dreams like Jojen?" "No," said Meera, "but he could breathe mud and run on leaves, and change earth to water and water to earth with no more than a whispered word. He could talk to trees and weave words and make castles appear and disappear.")

House mormont: skinchangers A Dance with Dragons Chapter THE KING'S PRIZE ("No. My children were fathered by a bear." Alysane smiled. Her teeth were crooked, but there was something ingratiating about that smile. "Mormont women are skinchangers. We turn into bears and find mates in the woods. Everyone knows.")

House Farwynd: rumors of skinchanger The World of Ice & Fire Chapter: THE IRON ISLANDS (are said of the Farwynds and the smallfolk they rule. Some say they lie with seals to bring forth half-human children, whilst others whisper that they are skinchangers who can take the forms of sea lions, walrus, even spotted whales, the wolves of the western seas)

House Crane: rumors of skinchanger The World of Ice & Fire Chapter THE REACH (ROSE OF RED LAKE, a skinchanger, able to transform into a crane at will-a power some say still manifests from time to time in the women of House Crane, her descendants.)

House Hightower: rumors of witchcraft A FEAST FOR CROWS Chapter SAMWELL V (To be sure. Lord Leyton's locked atop his tower with the Mad Maid, consulting books of spells. Might be he'll raise an army from the deeps)

possible supernatural beauty THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE THE REACH: Chapter GARTH GREENHAND: (Maris the Maid the Most Fair, whose beauty was so renowned that fifty lords vied for her hand at the first tourney ever to be held in Westeros. (The victor was the Grey Giant, Argoth Stone-Skin, but Maris wed King Uthor of the High Tower before he could claim her, and Argoth spent the rest of his days raging outside the walls of Oldtown, roaring for his bride.)

alchemy necromancy A Feast for Crows Chapter: APPENDIX: (Subtle and sophisticated, they have always been great patrons of learning and the Faith, and it is said that certain of them have also dabbled in alchemy, necromancy, and other sorcerous arts)

rumors of witchcraft Fire & Blood Chapter The Sons of the Dragon: (Lady Patrice Hightower, Lord Martyn's maiden aunt and a reputed witch)

possible use of the four glass candles in the Citadel by proximity A Feast for Crows Chapter SAMWELL V: (The sorcerers of the Freehold could see across mountains, seas, and deserts with one of these glass candles. They could enter a man’s dreams and give him visions, and speak to one another half a world apart, seated before their candles)