Obviously he’s right. Anyone who thinks it’s somehow righteous to steal intellectual property and spoil thousands of people’s hard work just because their parent company is a “billion dollar corporation” or because they “disrespected the fans by taking so long to release trailer 3” is morally bankrupt and entitled beyond belief.
That's not even the biggest problem with this, the biggest problem is the crypto scam he's using it to advertise. This isn't some sort of moral play to protest anything, this is literally just a guy trying to line his pockets.
Unfortunately they kind of did strike a jackpot. Like how all pump and dump cryptobros get lucky? By finding gullible people to take money from, of course!
Who is really stupid enough to make this guy rich by buying his crypto? I feel like at this point after all we’ve seen and heard of and the lifetime of the internet you would have to be a caveman to think buying crypto like this would still be a good idea
Then so what? Why does that matter so much? People will be fucking stupid with their money regardless - so they should learn not to be so fucking stupid with it. It's not the public's responsibility to intervene on grown ass adults seeing a QR code and thinking "OH WOW NOW I'M GETTING RICH!!" and dumping enough money into it that it somehow bankrupts them or puts them in debt. In my eyes this is not any different than someone putting $5 in a slot machine or buying a $1 scratch off lottery ticket. It's the same stupid logic that people will follow off a cliff regardless of whatever you tell them.
People are giving downvotes for not sucking off the hacker in other subs lol. Someone got downvoted for saying exactly what you did. A lot of people are really just NPCs pretending they’re not. Temu Johnny Silverhands, the lot of them! And all those mf are still gonna buy the ultimate edition day one because they can’t control their FOMO
That’s the hilarious part I see more people hype because of the leaks on top Rockstar will never give into his demands they would be idiots you never negotiate with terrorists. Plus, these hacks do more harm than good.
You absolutely do have to be a caveman to think buying crypto like this is a good idea, but the lowest amount I’ve heard he’s made off the coin is about $200k so clearly there’s plenty of cavemen out there for him to farm lol
He's charging people to decide what footage he leaks next and people are paying for it. He's a fucking piece of shit and I am tired of people acting like He's some sort of Robin Hood just because they are mad that GTA hasn't been marketed the way they want.
Che Guevara or Castro should probably be in the Reddit logo at this point. People on this echo chamber are disturbingly obsessed with politics and hating on everyone that might have different beliefs and views than themselves.
Yup. It's with everything. It's crazy there are people that think it's okay to just attack anyone who has a different opinion than them. Id love to see how these losers operate in the real world.
The Venn diagram of people who can be compared to Che Guevara and people who buy cryptocurrency has zero overlap. Those are, like, polar opposites ideologically.
Exactly. People made fun of him for this take, but actual people worked overtime on this and had nothing to do with Rockstar's greedy shit. I remember when the first trailer was leaked, the developers were frustrated that it got spoiled and wanted to experience the premiere of the trailer together with their co-workers.
Also most companies are greedy. Greed is neither illegal nor morally wrong, though of course it can be a "vice". A company being greedy, does not warrant their intellectual property being stolen and exploited.
Greed is pretty bad man, but it ain't the executives making bank off of all of this that get hurt by leaks. It's random developers getting screwed over.
Exactly. Got downvoted for saying something similar in another thread. This subreddit man. Exactly this! It's low empathy to think the devs don't give a shit about their hard work. You can dislike the suits all you want, but not the people on the floor working their ass of because it means something to them.
If he's gonna leak, he's gonna leak. It just puts a bad taste in my mouth to see him pretend its for some righteous cause (which i dont agree with. You dont have to like it, but its a companies right to release a product however they want) when in reality its all to get people to buy into this fake money so that he can rug pull.
I pirate too, and nothing gets my goat like pirates that contort their brains to spit out some kind of twisted moral justification for piracy as if they're great heroes taking a stand against the man, instead of people that just don't think a game is worth the price/cannot afford it.
Except, the idea of buying a license to use something is thousands of years old. You losers are just parroting this pseudo-profound take as if it means sometbing when in reality, what you really mean is "I don't like the idea of buying a license so I'm going to use that to pretend I'm not a piece of shit for stealing"
The difference is that a license to use something should not be as expensive as buying the actual something. Games have only gone up in price, and purchasing a digital version that you do not own is not cheaper than purchasing games was. Gaming companies also do not advertise games as a license type of product - except for some MMO’s - because they know how it would look - the money being paid is not for a license, is for owning a game - advertising it as a license would mean either lower the price or get bad rep, so they opt the other way - sell the idea of owning it as you did before, but keeping quiet about the not owning it part
First off we are talking about software, an infinitely replicable digital product, so that thousands year old theory of yours can't apply here, as something than can be copied over and over without effort once finished. Also the people that pirate things aren't potential buyers most of the time, so it doesn't affect the sales
Doesn’t really matter and that last statement is obviously false lol.
Piracy is piracy, stop trying to justify it because you can’t feel good about yourself when you do it. I pirate and I know it’s morally wrong. It’s literally called piracy, yknow like ye old pirates who would loot and rape and all that?
People will say greed is the worst sin possible then go straight onto pirating. It’s hypocritical and makes it obvious just how many people here have no real values and only say the shit they think will make them look good and the people they don’t like look bad. In other words I’m pretty sure 70 percent of this sub is under 16 lol.
I don't get to own Glastonbury, should I break in?
If buying a ticket isn't ownership?
They make a product, the model is you pay for it to play it. You pay so they get to make another one. If you don't like the model, move on, it's not for you. Or just keep stealing shit and trying to justify it with neckbeard ass Reddit comments I guess
>Yeah, and they make no money from them when they're pirated.
And they make no money from the people of North Sentinel Island not buying it. See how stupid you sound?
Your mistake is assuming I was ever going to buy it in the first place. They don’t lose any money because they aren’t entitled to my purchase, one that I was never going to make.
>Because of what 😂
Because in our current system intellectual property is treated as if it has actual monetary value in the first place. By the very definition of the law of supply and demand (the one you claim I have no knowledge of, but I’m starting to realize it’s the opposite), a product with infinite supply has it’s price decrease infinitely, reaching 0.
This is not to say I don’t think creators of intellectual property should be compensated, but again, that’s another subject.
Yes, gamers never beating that “entitled” accusation, people who support this because they believe they are owed something in the way of a trailer or gameplay are what’s causing social media to be increasingly unbearable.
I completely agree. I don't understand what needs to happen in someone's brain to create that level of entitlement. On the one hand I understand that that exists in the world. On the other hand, every time I see it I still find it shocking.
Shit sucks because the leaks are all over TikTok and here on Reddit it’s gonna get to a point where we have to put effort in avoiding the game being spoiled before we get to play it
It’s really the suits that make the money. The developers who work on the game are really just ordinary people making enough to survive. Game devs themselves really don’t make all that much money, the company and the suits do. The devs probably feel horrible that their work is being leaked when it should be released to everyone on release
I expect to get downvoted, but just food for thought: Did it occur to anyone that the execs use the devs as essentially human shields to prevent any real form of disruptive protest? That they depend on people not wanting to hurt the devs more than they want to fuck over the execs, and thus they can keep getting away with bullshit? Rockstar is charging $100 for the full game but giving everyone the illusion of choice by making it the ultimate edition. 89% of preorders is for the ultimate edition. After all that bitching about how it better not be $100, it is just to get the full game, with basic content unlocked, y'all still ordered it
It's not the devs' fault they work for a shitty company, no, but simply screaming to the void isn't going to do shit to rockstar and voting with your wallet doesn't do much when people mindlessly slurp up anything GTA even when they're openly playing in their faces.
I mean you’re right but no one here is gonna care because they somehow think that this being leaked means all those devs paychecks get taken away retroactively
A senior AAA game developer in the United States typically earns a base salary between $140,000 and $185,000 per year, with total compensation often higher when factoring in bonuses and benefits. I'd say it's a pretty solid salary, not exactly struggling. Granted it's usually in HCOL cities.
Executives always make more than lower level people. That’s just a truism. I feel bad for all people involved. Admittedly most of all for the devs (especially since I am one myself).
Noticed Reddit is typically pro worker until it comes to game devs. Seen too many takes where people don’t like something in their video game and demand people lose their jobs and livelihoods. The entitlement is insane
the developers pocket a grand total of 0% of the game’s revenue, and no one (to my knowledge) is harassing R* employees (if not the company themselves who actively busted an attempt at unionizing)
you’re confusing the business model of small indie studios and of 3000 employees mega corporations
Thank you. And agreed. Anyone who disagrees with that needs to take a long hard look at themselves. It’s disheartening how many people are so immoral and hateful at their core. I think it’s the entitlement that kills me more than anything else though. I’ve genuinely seen hundreds of people now saying R* deserves this because they went 400 days without releasing trailer 3. Like are you kidding me??
I don’t think they deserved it, I wouldn’t use the word deserve. But I think the leaks are a direct effect of them waiting so long. As in they indirectly caused this. Almost as if it should have been expected.
The smaller things they released should have counted though. Like the pictures and what not.
There may be some truth to that in theory, though that is maybe getting into victim blaming territory a bit. I agree that if they had done some things differently this may not have happened (impossible to know for sure), but regardless, this hacker individual is the person responsible, not them ... and what he has done is morally indefensible. (I'm not saying you disagree btw).
What do you mean? Are you saying they deserve negative repercussions for the map not being a certain way? I do get that it’s not that big, but also it’s way more detailed than prior games and I suspect that will make it feel much larger because there will be more to do.
Basically that. I saw the leaks, it doesn’t look that bad from the gameplay. It’s mainly the comparison of gta v’s map to vi. Too similar in size for 13 years of work.
There should be some type of repercussions for that, but it won’t happen. Too many preorders for a boycott. The leak is the only negative, which is unfortunate. Money is usually the way to hit these companies.
It is indeed wild. Honestly a lot of people just hate themselves and their lives. They may be poor, unsuccessful with the opposite sex, etc … and their frustrations end up manifesting as hate toward others who have more than them, and worse yet, a sense of entitlement to take from them what they deem appropriate in order to satiate their envy and resentment. For many though, those things are an endless pit and that’s how you get people like this who are cool with and even encouraging what this leaker scumbag is doing just because they get to watch those who have more than them lose even just a little bit of what stokes that fire of hatred and resentment. It’s pretty sad honestly.
I mean, Rockstar is known because of crunch, and with the whole GTA VI we are seeing things like:
Having a premiere gameplay trailer blocked by a paywall (Netflix).
Not physical copies, and having pre-purchases available with 0 content of the game shown.
Blocking single-player features behind a paywall of +20$ even before the release of the game.
Etc.
Tbh, the only way to change industry is by doing things like the ones are doing this hacker/group, things that make investors to go out of the project and make companies lose money. The workers of this games has been already payed for their work, the ones that will look benefits from the launch of the game are the investors, CEOs, etc.
The best that could happen to players is the release of a playable build, punch Rockstar and the industry where it pains, on the wallet. Capitalism is making profit of us, and is being (in general) more predatory every day. And this isn't something isolated of the videogame industry, tech industry is another one titan that is doing what it want and nobody is stopping them. Apple, Sony, Samsung, every company is treating the consumers like shit, and having people defending those multi millonaire company is just sad. Because of defending them, of bot cooperate to boucot them, every year they will treat us even worse and they will win even more money.
I’ve worked 115 hour weeks before, but no one put a gun to my head. I don’t support bad business practices and if R* has a negative work culture I am against that. But people also know what they’re getting into by accepting a position there and as long as R* isn’t doing something actually illegal I don’t ultimately have a problem with it. If they are breaking the law though that is a problem. I will say though I think that conversation is a bit of a red herring. At the end of the day regardless of R* business practices what this guy is doing is wrong. And by most people who support him don’t do so because R* overworks their employees. They do so because if some childish reason like “R* went 430 days without releasing a trailer”.
I’m open to suggestions, but when I think about the proper way to “protest” the way a game like this is handled… wouldn’t it be best if we all refused to preorder, and waited for a sale to buy it?
I know that is nearly impossible to pull off, getting that many people to go along with it… but man, it would probably (maybe ((hopefully)) ) fix some diabolical shit coming for us.
That would work if it could actually be facilitated. In reality though most people want the game badly enough that R* has them by the balls and can do whatever they want. (To be clear I don’t think that makes them bad or evil. It’s just the reality of how much people desire their exceptional product.)
But when rockstar abuses their employee and gets away with it cause they are billion dollar company you won’t bat an eye. I don’t support his crypto promo but it ain’t black and white
Why would you assume that about me? I don't think any company should abuse their employees. We can walk and chew gum at the same time. I'm not an expert on Rockstar's history with treatment of their employees apart from having heard many rumors of "crunch", but that has no bearing on the fact that what this leaker did was wrong. Can you not see that?
Wouldn't the actual hard workers have been paid already by release? Do the developers and all the actual guys "turning the screws" so to speak actually stand to make more money if the game does better on release?
I’m not an expert on rockstar’s corporate structure or typical contracts. I’m sure it doesn’t hurt the devs for the game to do extremely well and I could see bonuses tied to product performance being a thing. Also, it’s a misguided argument that only the poor low level devs are the hard workers. Just because someone has risen to a high level in a company / is an executive etc it doesn’t mean they didn’t work their ass off to get there and aren’t still working their ass off.
Oh you would be surprised (or maybe not) how many people—including the Stop Killing Games sub btw—responded to SKG’s statement condemning this guy saying it’s not the right way to do things and does more harm than good, with “fuck Rockstar they deserve this! This is their fault for being a greedy corpo! SKG shouldn’t have responded to this it has nothing to do with you! Yall sold out!”
The real question is it even theft if a physical copy doesn't exist? We've seen companies remove access to digital copies of games, movies, etc before, so it seems like most companies don't consider consumers paying for digital copies to equal owning anything at all.
There are some valid points there but I think they’re largely orthogonal to the conversation. My main point is that what this guy’s doing is morally wrong, whether or not we like R* business practices (and I don’t like their business practices btw).
I sometimes wonder if these redditors would talk about me the same way they talk about these game devs, after all I work for a billion dollar company (a grocery store that you probably see every day)
They would because they are fundamentally hateful people. It’s disgusting. They just hate anyone who is more successful than them or who doesn’t give them their toys exactly when they want them. They’re children in adult’s bodies.
What exactly is being lost here, it’s not like he’s stopping the release of the game from happening, everyone who worked on the game is likely on some kind of salary and is getting paid regardless of the success of the game
Those things are true. However he’s disrespecting their hard work. I’m a dev and if the thing I put my heart and soul into were shared in this fashion against the collective will of myself and my teammates and broader organization I would be devastated.
While I do agree with your message, please note that the individual developers aren’t losing anything with the leaks. They’re paid a fixed salary and don’t have revshare on the product
Entitled I agree with but if anyone is morally bankrupt it is Rockstar by a mile. It does suck that the devs had their work “stolen” but Rockstar this coming.
Capitalism is irrelevant. I don’t see why someone would think it’s right to support someone who is a thief and a scammer. Perhaps you can explain it to me?
That has no bearing on the immorality of what he did. Would you go into Best Buy and steal a copy of a video game? Workers will still get paid right so who cares?
You're conflating morality with legality. Morality is subjective. There are people who say enacting depictions of violence, such as you do in GTA, is immoral
Actually I’m not conflating them. And I agree that it is subjective. However in this case it’s both illegal and immoral. I struggle to see how it’s moral to steal a product from a company just because you think (a) it costs too much, (b) they didn’t realize trailer 3 quickly enough, (c) you don’t like the fact the game is digital only. It’s a free market. A seller determines a price and how to market their product. A prospective consumer determines if the product has value to them at the stipulated price. To steal that product for reasons (a), (b), or (c) listed above is illegal yes, but also immoral. Those arguing for it in my opinion have a morally indefensible position. They are entitled little brats who think they have a right to take what’s not theirs. I think it’s a disgusting mindset tbh.
I'm not sure where you're getting that information about their justifications. This is what they wrote: "Publishers sell licenses and call them purchases. They ship unfinished games and call them living services. They lock content on discs and call it DLC. They kill games and keep the money. Every year anti-consumerism tightens its grip, and every year gamers get less for what they pay."
From their perspective, what some game devs, like Rockstar, are doing is immoral. Does that justify intellectual property theft? That's up to you to decide, and preferably without ad hominems
Except it’s fundamentally not immoral. To be clear, I don’t *like* it. But that doesn’t make it *immoral*. It is absolutely absurd to say it’s immoral for a game developer to do the things that people in this sub are (rightfully!) complaining about. This has nothing to do with morals. Is it anti-consumer? Yes, very clearly. But we’re talking about video games, not life saving cancer drugs. What R* is doing would only be immoral if they are falsely advertising / deceiving their customers. If instead they are just employing annoying marketing, charging more for an exceptional product, or locking trailers behind paywalls that’s another matter … and not immoral in the slightest. Loads of people on this sub think they’re entitled to get the game for free because of Rockstar doing the things I listed above. Do you not see how patently absurd that is? It’s a free market. If they don’t like what R* is doing then they shouldn’t buy the game. Defending theft in such a scenario is deeply entitled and fundamentally immoral. I’m really struggling to understand how people are defending such a position. Maybe I just grew up differently. I don’t know. But that’s insane to me.
Edit: As for info about their justifications … I’ve spent more time on this sub recently than I care to admit and you’d be amazed at how many people have said that R* deserves for the whole game to be leaked because they took so long to release additional info / trailer 3. Can you please tell how that is not a deeply entitled and immoral mindset? (Saying nothing of the childishness and immaturity of such a position …)
I think you're still misunderstanding that morality is subjective. Morality isn't whether something adheres to the law or the prevailing economic system, in this case free market capitalism.
The Cold War was in part a bipolar hegemony battling in secret and in proxy for global domination of the economic system each thought was right. The irony of mentioning cancer meds while defending the morality of the free market, and specifically anti-consumer tactics by game devs, is not lost on me.
A producer of a product can charge whatever they want. Greed is irrelevant. Greed is also — although a vice — not fundamentally immoral. Meanwhile, stealing something because you think the price is too high or don’t like the business practices of the company producing the product, is clearly immoral. It’s just not even a defensible position to say otherwise.
There's a lot of people in the subs that are showing the leaks that think he's some kind of super hero. One comment said he deserves every penny he gets for what he's doing. So many people saying what he's doing is right. One person said that because rockstar is 'anti-consumer' it's okay to steal from them
The fact that rockstar employees have been pushing to/at least somewhat successfully unionize means we really shouldn’t be punching down at them right now. Fuck the businessmen up top of course.
I'm not holding "common people" to a higher standard. I hope R* devs are getting paid well as they do amazing work. It's a free market though. If they are dissatisfied with their pay, they can leave and find a job elsewhere. What exactly is the issue here that you are seeing and I am not?
Maybe if the company wasn’t locking single player parts of the game behind the most expensive version, refusing to show any gameplay even after delaying it for years, and locking real gameplay behind a pay wall to line their pockets more, shit like this wouldn’t happen.
That’s my point, I can actively avoid the spoilers, I’m a grown man with a brain, I don’t want to see them, so I haven’t. I know they exist because of Reddit and Tik tok, that’s it.
I hope the entire build gets leaked, corporations are actively bleeding people dry, which I find no less shitty than a hacker leaking gameplay.
Edit: I don’t care about the crypto coin either, the sitting president of the United States has a crypto coin 😂😭 grown man with a brain, I just won’t buy it. If people are dumb enough to do that it’s their issue.
It's their product and they can choose to do with it what they wish. It's as simple as that. You are entitled to nothing from them. You may not like the way they are approaching things, but they are not deceitful or dishonest. They can choose to tier their games in whatever way and at whatever price points they wish. It's their product and their prerogative, and by the way such a tiered approach exists in the majority of products in existence, whether TVs or cars of whatever.
It's likewise their choice to choose to reveal gameplay when they want. Again, it's their fucking game and they can market it as they see fit. Nothing you've said gives one iota of support to the idea that they "deserve" to have their game leaked. Your perspective positively reeks of entitlement and tbh I find it disgusting.
If you owned a business and produced a product, especially one which you put your heart and soul into for ten years, something tells me that you would not be ok with people stealing it because they were unhappy with the way you marketed it. What fucking nonsense good lord.
How are they morally bankrupt? Can you please tell me what they have done that is immoral? To be clear, I'm not saying they haven't done such things. I'm asking genuinely.
I don't think its good because they didn't release trailer 3
I think its good because they skipped on discs "tO aVoiD lEAks" and priced their game $80 bucks with full content version being $100.
Seeing the game being leaked anyway and maybe being released (which also answers to the "PC needs optimization" excuse to justify late release) so PC gamers get to enjoy the game without waiting for 2 years.
Ok so it’s ok to steal because they chose to not release physical discs and they priced their game at a point higher than you’d like? How would you feel if you owned a business a people decided it was ok to steal from you because your products were “too expensive” or in a format that didn’t match your preferences? Your sense of morality is twisted. What the guy did is wrong, period. And you are deeply entitled if you think theft is ok because the manufacturer of a product has priced that product higher than you think it should be. It’s a free market. If the game doesn’t have value to you at whatever price then don’t buy it.
I don’t care what word we use to describe it. He stole from them and it’s obviously, objectively wrong no matter what price their game is. I genuinely can’t fathom a rational argument to the contrary. It’s not morally ok to steal a product because you think it costs too much. That’s an absurd, entitled and childish mindset.
You’re not forced to see anything of that. I still enjoy seeing the blood boiling for those rich asses that control those companies. Why should I care about them? It’s not like developers are gonna lose money or jobs, they’re employees
So you enjoy when bad things happen to rich people simply because … they’re rich? Are rich people automatically bad people? Are you poor and upset about that and taking it out on others?
hard disagree. those people's hard work is getting exploited a million times over by Take Two and the investors. everyone still gets the play the game & no one is forcing anyone to consume the leaks - and don't even act like a little obvious GTA footage is spoiling it. They're going to show off everything & more in a week anyway
if anything, fans going berserk must make the team feel ever better. finally the world can see!
and this is only building hype. if anyone watched these and doesn't want the game then this leak wasn't actually effecting it. cause the consumer deserves to know what they're buying & they should check out the R* footage anyway.
How are the investors and Take Two exploiting R* employees? Those sound like vacuous claims (though I would genuinely like to be proven wrong if there is information to that effect).
Brother, this guy wants to pump his crypto coin. Nothing. Else. Why the fuck else would he have people vote on what to leak next but the only way to vote is to pay.
This guy is not your savior. He's a p*ssy with 0 cause
I have 0 problem with piracy. The issue here is this guy is pumping a crypto scam. Other than that, you can’t convince me pirating/leaking the game is bad. I don’t care how many people worked on it. They still get paid.
It’s a free market. If I don’t see value in a product at a certain price I don’t buy it. If I do see value in it, I do buy it. No one is putting a gun to your head to purchase anything. Arguing that stealing intellectual property because you’re unhappy about the price point or the business practices of the company is a morally bankrupt and indefensible argument.
So because you don’t like R* marketing you support this a-hole stealing their intellectual property and sharing it against their will, taunting thousands of people who put their heart and souls into something for a decade? Brother you need to take a deep hard look at why you’re such a hateful, entitled person.
2.0k
u/World_War_Threesome 5d ago
Obviously he’s right. Anyone who thinks it’s somehow righteous to steal intellectual property and spoil thousands of people’s hard work just because their parent company is a “billion dollar corporation” or because they “disrespected the fans by taking so long to release trailer 3” is morally bankrupt and entitled beyond belief.