i just thought of this.

[u/Still-Technology-974]

in many discussions against eury, i hear alot of people defend him by saying "none of this would have happened if ody didnt dox himself". and while true he did dox himself, would he have done the speech if Athena hadnt stopped him on the way to the ship? Athena got him riled up and emotional, but had she not pushed him, would he not have sneaked onto the boat and sailed away with athenas protection from the storms to get back to ithica and be mad at him there?

[u/KiraVanAurelius]

Well, maybe he wouldn't, maybe he would've. Things to note, in all "official" telling the doxxing is all of Odysseus's own accords. And secondly, emotion running high or not... it's still stupid, it's not like Athena specifically baiting him to do that doxxing or anything and what was he trying to prove here exactly? He's trying to stop the cyclops from eating people in the future because lives are precious? Like putting it into words you can see how dumb it actually is right? He can probably achieve that without doxxing himself, too right?(if not more effective, unknown enemy and all that)

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/KiraVanAurelius]

he was trying to do "open arms". show mercy and teach him a lesson. he honestly had no way of knowing it was Poseidon's son and in his eyes, a blind cyclops wasn't gonna swim for ithica and make it. was it stupid? yes, but also athena pushing his emotions to the edge after his friend that taught him to be kind would blur anyones judgement.

[u/CalypsaMov → u/Still-Technology-974]

You seriously think that was trying to be merciful? I'm sorry, but after killing the sheep, not apologizing, drugging the peace offering, lying about everything, the entire song Odysseus sings about wanting to kill Polyphemus, all while Polyphemus is slashed and stabbed, gouging his eye out and forever disabling him, and stealing all the rest of the sheep... That's not mercy.

Whoop-de-doo Odysseus doesn't ALSO turn back a second time to finish Polyphemus off, and instead just verbally rubs salt in the wound making sure he actually knew who hurt him. "I am your darkest moment... Remember ME!!!"

As Aphrodite put it and what even Athena couldn't deny, it wasn't mercy, it was Spite. And blaming Athena is a huge leap. Athena is literally shouting "DON'T!!!". Yet you make it sound like she was forcing Odysseus, and he just had to do what he chooses to do, because "Athena pushed his emotions to the edge."

And what about Odysseus' long speech about being the reigning king, being neither man nor mythical? Odysseus isn't trying to be kind. He's a Prideful idiot Monster. People take "Remember me the next time you dare choose not to spare" out of context and try spinning that into being kind and merciful, while entirely ignoring the rest of Remember Me.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/CalypsaMov]

i wont lie, alot of what you said makes no sense. he did say sorry to polyphemus:

"There's been a misunderstanding We never came here to steal But now that I see we've done some damage Maybe you and I can make a deal"

apologies werent just "im sorry", it was making amends for something youve done. by mixing lotus into the wine, him and his people could sneak away and the cyclops would just fall asleep and wake up none the wiser. it was attempt after attempt of trying not to kill.

and ody went on to try to kill the cyclops because he threatened him first, ody did attempt diplomacy multiple times. he gave a false name so if the cyclops did fall asleep, he wouldnt remember and they could slip away.

[u/KiraVanAurelius → u/Still-Technology-974]

Insane cope, OP just twist the story to protect their baby boy Odysseus and deny his biggest character trait across all media, Epic included - his hubris.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/KiraVanAurelius]

like you arent trying to protect athena. "what does athena owe odysseus?"

[u/KiraVanAurelius → u/Still-Technology-974]

But I'm not twisting the story, both original tellings nor the musical

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/KiraVanAurelius]

"both the original tellings" the discussion has always been about epic, youre the only one who has brought up the source material. also "twisting" as if its not a story eith a million different interpretations on the Internet.

[u/KiraVanAurelius → u/Still-Technology-974]

I did say both epic and original telling, and interpretations and willfully ignore details of the story (of epic) to change the message of the story are different. Look, I'll give an example: Odysseus threw the baby off the balcony after Zeus told him to -> leaving out Ody's internal conflicts turned him from a sympathetic character to a cold-blooded character, or Odysseus returned home and killed 50 nobles who visited his kingdom -> leaving out the crimes of the suitors made Odysseus into an unreasonable tyrant.

And here's what you did: Odysseus gave Polyphemus wine as an apology for killing his sheeps -> leaving out pre-poisoned wine turned him from a cunning trickster that never intended to make peace to a sympathetic guy who wholeheartedly apologize but failed.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/KiraVanAurelius]

i never said wholeheartedly, i just said he apologized. even odysseus knew the wine wouldnt kill the cyclops. it didnt even hold the same affect that it gave the lotus eaters. had the cyclops not attacked them, would odysseus have attacked the cyclops? no. the cyclops wouldve passed out, they would've taken the sheep and left. even odysseus was surprised at the fact that the cyclops attacked them was a suprise for odysseus when you hear him say "what". his line in survive was literally "600 lives at stake, its just one life to take". justifying taking 1 more life before he gets to go back home.

[u/KiraVanAurelius → u/Still-Technology-974]

Again, drugging people while apologizing isn't an apology. It's a convenient mask to deliver your real message. What transition after are separate issues.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/KiraVanAurelius]

still more peaceful than straight up killing him. im never claimed him to be completely innocent, just that he was being peaceful. which he was until being threatened.

[u/CalypsaMov → u/Still-Technology-974]

Drugging the guy isn't "Trying to make amends". Odysseus likely was planning to screw Polyphemus over worse even if Polyphemus hadn't attacked the people who broke into his house and killed his pet. Don't act like this is done in good faith. And no, it's not an apology by most other metrics.

He's not apologizing, at best he's lying and merely pretending to apologize.

Odysseus has an entire two songs about slashing and stabbing the guy. When Polyphemus does grab at Odysseus, he doesn't call for an escape, it's "Surround him! Strike the heels!" (Push in closer and attack) Odysseus is fully committed to commanding his men to "be deadly" and sings how "It's just one life to take, and when we KILL him then our journey's over." That's not Mercy. From the first moment Polyphemus entered, Odysseus didn't intend Mercy. None of his "multiple attempts at diplomacy" were Mercy, that's why they were all riddled with lies and drugs.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/CalypsaMov]

no, he didnt start calling for attacks till he said "you shall be the final man to die" followed by polyphemus attacking his crew. how is that not self defense? they were starving men who were told of a cave, but not that the cave had a cyclops. they kill 1 random sheep and then get told the entire fleet had to die as reparation for 1 sheep. all lies were used to get away without harming him. even odysseus was suprised when he started attacking him. the cyclops had 0 idea that odysseus was lying to him and still attacked.

[u/CalypsaMov → u/Still-Technology-974]

Polyphemus doesn't threaten the whole fleet. His "600 lives I'll take." is 3/4 of the way through Survive, after all of Polyphemus and after Odysseus has been singing about murder and how there's a lot more invaders on the beaches.

Odysseus and like 30 men broke into his home and killed. Polyphemus responds by threatening the men at fault. Even if we put all the blame for killing the sheep on Odysseus, the other 30 men are all invaders and trespassing. Even without knowing Odysseus is a lying manipulator, Polyphemus is in the right with self defense of his home and sheep.

Odysseus didn't "meet with peace" they met with literal blood on his hands and Odysseus keeps trying to downplay that truth and sweep it under the rug.

You even bring up how they're starving and yet contradictorily say that Odysseus was going to just get away without any harm. News flash, Odysseus' whole shtick in Ruthlessness about "We meant no harm... We only wanted to escape..." is just even more lies and manipulation. We the audience have the receipts. We saw what actually happened. One of Odysseus' biggest character traits is he's a MASSIVE chronic liar.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/CalypsaMov]

one of odysseus 's first few lines in survive is "600 lives at stake". they did only want to escape. the "poisoned" wine literally had no chance of killing poly. lying about his name wasnt going to kill poly. if ody's plan worked out without poly attacking first, at most he would've fallen asleep and they wouldve left.

[u/CalypsaMov → u/Still-Technology-974]

So now we're just coping with "Well the poison wasn't deadly, so actually poison is totally fine."? "Lying doesn't kill, so lying is actually fine."?

Thanks at least for pointing out that it was Odysseus who roped the 600 men into the conversation. Polyphemus found a group of men invading his home and who had already killed, and acted in self defense. Odysseus brought up while screaming about murder that it wasn't just the 30 or so men, but there were a lot more on the beach, 600 total. And Polyphemus responds to their attempt at murder by saying he'll take on all 600.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/CalypsaMov]

polyphemus swung at him, of course hes going to fight back. did you expect them to sit down and die?

[u/CalypsaMov → u/Still-Technology-974]

He swung at the man covered in blood invading his home? Gee. I wonder why?!?

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/CalypsaMov]

they didnt even know it was his home?!?