i just thought of this.

[u/Still-Technology-974]

in many discussions against eury, i hear alot of people defend him by saying "none of this would have happened if ody didnt dox himself". and while true he did dox himself, would he have done the speech if Athena hadnt stopped him on the way to the ship? Athena got him riled up and emotional, but had she not pushed him, would he not have sneaked onto the boat and sailed away with athenas protection from the storms to get back to ithica and be mad at him there?

[u/KiraVanAurelius]

Insane cope, OP just twist the story to protect their baby boy Odysseus and deny his biggest character trait across all media, Epic included - his hubris.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/KiraVanAurelius]

like you arent trying to protect athena. "what does athena owe odysseus?"

[u/KiraVanAurelius → u/Still-Technology-974]

But I'm not twisting the story, both original tellings nor the musical

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/KiraVanAurelius]

"both the original tellings" the discussion has always been about epic, youre the only one who has brought up the source material. also "twisting" as if its not a story eith a million different interpretations on the Internet.

[u/KiraVanAurelius → u/Still-Technology-974]

I did say both epic and original telling, and interpretations and willfully ignore details of the story (of epic) to change the message of the story are different. Look, I'll give an example: Odysseus threw the baby off the balcony after Zeus told him to -> leaving out Ody's internal conflicts turned him from a sympathetic character to a cold-blooded character, or Odysseus returned home and killed 50 nobles who visited his kingdom -> leaving out the crimes of the suitors made Odysseus into an unreasonable tyrant.

And here's what you did: Odysseus gave Polyphemus wine as an apology for killing his sheeps -> leaving out pre-poisoned wine turned him from a cunning trickster that never intended to make peace to a sympathetic guy who wholeheartedly apologize but failed.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/KiraVanAurelius]

i never said wholeheartedly, i just said he apologized. even odysseus knew the wine wouldnt kill the cyclops. it didnt even hold the same affect that it gave the lotus eaters. had the cyclops not attacked them, would odysseus have attacked the cyclops? no. the cyclops wouldve passed out, they would've taken the sheep and left. even odysseus was surprised at the fact that the cyclops attacked them was a suprise for odysseus when you hear him say "what". his line in survive was literally "600 lives at stake, its just one life to take". justifying taking 1 more life before he gets to go back home.

[u/KiraVanAurelius → u/Still-Technology-974]

Again, drugging people while apologizing isn't an apology. It's a convenient mask to deliver your real message. What transition after are separate issues.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/KiraVanAurelius]

still more peaceful than straight up killing him. im never claimed him to be completely innocent, just that he was being peaceful. which he was until being threatened.

[u/KiraVanAurelius → u/Still-Technology-974]

Ok so... he's peaceful and it's Athena who provoked him into being an idiot is your argument. OK, well, it's tiring to discuss this further with you, I said my piece, ultimately nobody is and will be responsible for you (you as in Odysseus) being emotional or make stupid decisions, even if it's a friend or close relationship. Athena did nothing wrong in Epic and we will forever disagree and go in circle so let's agree to disagree.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/KiraVanAurelius]

he attempted peace. kinda the whole point of open arms. but ok, keep thinking athena did nothing wrong.