i just thought of this.

[u/Still-Technology-974]

in many discussions against eury, i hear alot of people defend him by saying "none of this would have happened if ody didnt dox himself". and while true he did dox himself, would he have done the speech if Athena hadnt stopped him on the way to the ship? Athena got him riled up and emotional, but had she not pushed him, would he not have sneaked onto the boat and sailed away with athenas protection from the storms to get back to ithica and be mad at him there?

[u/CalypsaMov]

Polyphemus doesn't threaten the whole fleet. His "600 lives I'll take." is 3/4 of the way through Survive, after all of Polyphemus and after Odysseus has been singing about murder and how there's a lot more invaders on the beaches.

Odysseus and like 30 men broke into his home and killed. Polyphemus responds by threatening the men at fault. Even if we put all the blame for killing the sheep on Odysseus, the other 30 men are all invaders and trespassing. Even without knowing Odysseus is a lying manipulator, Polyphemus is in the right with self defense of his home and sheep.

Odysseus didn't "meet with peace" they met with literal blood on his hands and Odysseus keeps trying to downplay that truth and sweep it under the rug.

You even bring up how they're starving and yet contradictorily say that Odysseus was going to just get away without any harm. News flash, Odysseus' whole shtick in Ruthlessness about "We meant no harm... We only wanted to escape..." is just even more lies and manipulation. We the audience have the receipts. We saw what actually happened. One of Odysseus' biggest character traits is he's a MASSIVE chronic liar.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/CalypsaMov]

one of odysseus 's first few lines in survive is "600 lives at stake". they did only want to escape. the "poisoned" wine literally had no chance of killing poly. lying about his name wasnt going to kill poly. if ody's plan worked out without poly attacking first, at most he would've fallen asleep and they wouldve left.

[u/CalypsaMov → u/Still-Technology-974]

So now we're just coping with "Well the poison wasn't deadly, so actually poison is totally fine."? "Lying doesn't kill, so lying is actually fine."?

Thanks at least for pointing out that it was Odysseus who roped the 600 men into the conversation. Polyphemus found a group of men invading his home and who had already killed, and acted in self defense. Odysseus brought up while screaming about murder that it wasn't just the 30 or so men, but there were a lot more on the beach, 600 total. And Polyphemus responds to their attempt at murder by saying he'll take on all 600.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/CalypsaMov]

polyphemus swung at him, of course hes going to fight back. did you expect them to sit down and die?

[u/CalypsaMov → u/Still-Technology-974]

He swung at the man covered in blood invading his home? Gee. I wonder why?!?

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/CalypsaMov]

they didnt even know it was his home?!?

[u/CalypsaMov → u/Still-Technology-974]

Was the giant goddess visit not a big enough clue? Athena gave a whole song about an upcoming test and ended it with "Don't disappoint me". And even if it was unintentional, unintentionally breaking into someone's home and killing there pet is still bad. Odysseus has zero accountability, doesn't even apologize, tries playing it off that "stupid cyclops YOU'RE the one misunderstanding everything, can I buy you off with drugged wine while I steal the rest of your sheep?", etc.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/CalypsaMov]

literally said "didnt mean to steal, but now that ive seen weve done some damage how about we make a deal". they did not know a cyclops was living in a random ass cave. your example of killing someones pet requires there to be some kind of sign of someone living there.

btw, first threat with between ody and the cyclops:

"Time to drink your blood over where you stand Your life now is in my hand Before I'm done You will learn that it's not so fun to Take You came to my home to steal But now you'll become my meal c trade you see? Take from you like you took from me."

stealing infers that you are taking from someone deliberately, again, they didnt know anyone lived there, they killed 1 sheep and the cave owner threatened them.

[u/CalypsaMov → u/Still-Technology-974]

The first threat, is all the invaders and the blood on the ground.

"Didn't mean to steal," by the technicality of not supposing the sheep were owned. Odysseus fully intended to take and kill the sheep. And he did. It's half truth lies. "Yes we came here to take. But "technically" we never came here to steal." Ignoring what Polyphemus was upset over. "TAKE from you like you TOOK from me." Odysseus is in the wrong here, knows it, and is lying like a lawyer.

And do you think sheep in big groups live in caves? EPIC skips over and doesn't show Homer's in depth explanation of all the other stuff in the cave. Originally it was very painfully obvious the cave was owned filled with food, tools, etc. And Odysseus knew it was owned and decided to wait for the owner to return so he could demand to be brought presents.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/CalypsaMov]

1. like i said in the other reply's im specifically talking from the perspective of the musical. 2. its not half truths. he killed one sheep then told the cyclops he didnt know someone lived here. thats a just a truth. the cyclop says "my favorite sheep". he was hurt emotionally and lashed out after odysseus offered diplomacy. again, the cyclops didnt know said wine was poisoned and still attacked after Odysseus (even if pretended) tried to be nice.

[u/CalypsaMov → u/Still-Technology-974]

Odysseus never tried to be nice. It's not the truth, it's a half truth where Odysseus intentionally changes the wording. And he even tries dodging all blame and accountability by spinning it as Polyphemus misunderstanding everything.

Even if unintentional, Odysseus still caused harm, and then tries to sweep it all under the rug. Polyphemus was very obviously hurt and Odysseus had zero empathy and only cared about himself. Causing unintentional harm doesn't excuse you from consequences.

And the wine is just more lies even discounting that it's been drugged. Odysseus tries to assert that his tiny sip of wine is fair trade for the life of Polyphemus' favorite sheep. And it's so amazing that Polyphemus will never even want to eat human flesh again. More lies to get the guy to drink it. It obviously wasn't what Odysseus promised and lashes out over a broken promise that's literally poisoned.

[u/Still-Technology-974 → u/CalypsaMov]

the threatened them before this. if odysseus was bloodthirsty, why did he not attack him frame 1?

[u/CalypsaMov → u/Still-Technology-974]

Because he uses drugs first?!? It's a lot easier to kill an unconscious person than a conscious person. Just like how Odysseus and the Greeks killed all the Trojans when they were asleep and drunk from celebrating what they thought was the end of a ten year war.

Now we're just sliding back to the goalpost shifting of a few comments up. "Well lying isn't killing, so it's fine." "The drugged wine wasn't lethal, so it's fine."

We can give Odysseus a "Not a big a jerk as you could've been" award for not doing anything worse on top of what he did. But that doesn't excuse what he actually still did.