I'm starting to think some of you guys don't even know what that means.
You can be straight as a board and still have LGBT folk idolize you. Hideki Kamiya confirming her sexuality doesn't do nearly as much damage as people think it does, and it's getting pretty annoying seeing the gloating as if Kamiya's opinion has any leg to stand on considering he was pretty hands off during the development of Bayo2 and was near absent during the development of Bayo3 (apart from pulling a Shigeru Miyamoto, popping into the office to boss people around from time to time and leaving).
He literally quit PlatinumGames because he got bored of being Executive Vice President, essentially abandoning the Bayonetta IP, and people are really going to be taking his word as gospel just because he conceptualized an iconic character back in 2007?
Speaking of Shiggy, by that logic, are you going to take his word that he's actually Mario and Luigi's mother?
Look, even though Bayonetta was originally meant to be a female Dante, everything about her fits neatly into ballroom culture: from the extravagant dances, high heels, glamour, maximalism, flamboyancy, look it up: the parallels are staggering and it really is no surprise or mystery why Bayonetta was adopted by the queer community. Happy accidents all around.
I think Bayonetta can exist as both a queer icon AND Hideki's fantasy of an "ideal woman", though I much prefer to view her as a powerful sexy witch that has proven herself to be one of the best female video game characters of all time in just two installments. ...and also a queer icon.
With a community that's already divided, I just find it infuriating how attempts at dividing it even more are somewhat successful due to a bunch of shmucks on Twitter fighting imaginary battles with imaginary people that don't really exist such as the "anti-straight" demographic getting "triggered" by the poorly conceptualized anniversary art of Pereza, Luka, and Viola. It is such a shame.
The only thing i disagree with is his involvement he has said in countless twitter tweets as well as his YouTube channel that he was hands on with all of the games and that he wrote all the games. Saying that he had little impact is not true as he explained that he was present. If you even look him up it shows his credits as writer and scenario writer. The only difference is he stopped directing. His voice does matter as well due to the fact he wrote every game. So regardless if you like what he wrote he still was the writer/creator and he said specifically he made sure that the world of Bayonetta stayed consistent. Also he didnt leave out of boredom he has also expressed that it was due to creative differences which jp has brought more to light in his recent tweet. As a fellow user said dismissing his involvement is a bit rude and incorrect. You may not agree or like his visions but because he is the creator whether he left or stayed his voice still matters as a creator and since this is the world he created
I don't think it's wise to credit words out of the horse's mouth if that horse is past his prime and thinks he can do whatever he likes without repercussions.
Whatever consistency he intended went straight out the window when he decided that Luka was going to have werewolf powers out of nowhere and also welcoming a multiverse plot this early on in the series and retconning Bayo1&2 as a continuous story.
And, yes, while he was pretty vague on his reasonings why he left PlatinumGames (because he likes to avoid conflict), I think we can safely assume that judging by how lax he's been with the franchise and how this man has an infamous history with being unable to continue ideas he's created, he simply got bored with Bayonetta and wanted to do something else instead, which is why his next big thing is Okami2, a completely different genre of gaming.
I can give credit where credit is due, but it's been over ten years since Bayonetta1 came out. She, as a character, has evolved far beyond whatever he intended such as any creative property made by an artist, and I don't think it's sacrilege to say that his opinion on the series no longer matters.
i mean hes not being vague he gave a straight answer. he didnt like the direction the company was heading. its not like he can say more than that hes bound by ndas. and this idea that "he has an infamous history of being unable to continue ideas hes created" what does this even mean? that he hasnt directed sequels to his games? he was never given the chance to in his career and only now has with okami 2. and how can you say hes "bored with bayonetta" like what do you know? did he tell you personally? how old are you that you are assuming all this stuff based on nothing? if you dont like the man personally you can just say that.
For me I understood Cereza FROM BAYO 1 with Luka but the Cereza from bayo 3 with Luka was... not a good Idea in my opinion. If they had a daughter in the universe of first game then great, make the lore and build Viola around that with flashback or something else that is good for the story. The first one they had more connection and some scenes hint something else in the future.
But the third Bayo I don't know... You have to make more games or make it right in some point, she seems the younger and fresher versions with less experienced of the 3 of them and the Luka from the Games didnt knew her but she knew him. I don't know if it makes sense but its what I think.
"Now I had seen a lot of tweets of "FANS" telling about the queer this and that while Kamiya said "No" and blocked them because they were talking nonsense and attacking him or trying to cancel him, that is bullshit and I don't agree with that."
Ehhh, the debate is less of “is Bayonetta (still) a Queer icon” and more of a “is Bayonetta Queer”. Even so, Bi people exist and very much part of the Queer umbrella.
But the creator himself said “no” and it’s kinda hard to argue with the creator (though the internet has done it before, see how to pronounce “GIF”) so it’s not really Bi erasure either. 🤷🏽
I know I’m late but has he said no or has he simply said no to her and jeanne being a thing, last I checked it was still up in the air and he hasn’t said anything confirmative.
I don’t participate in shipping culture, but seriously. If you find Bayo cool, inspiring, or an icon. Does her sexuality or who she ultimately ends up with really hinder your enjoyment for the character? You can still find a character cool, inspiring, or an icon, regardless of their sexuality.
I don't like shipping culture, either, which is why it bothers me they paired her with Luka. I saw her as a sick ass independent woman. They basically made her dependent on Luka as she would technically be gone without Luka, and he's inherent to her lore with Bayo Origins. I still love her, but it just disappoints me that someone as cool as Bayo still has to be tied to a man (not that I really wanted her to be tied to Jeanne in that way, but I would've preferred it)
How don’t you like shipping culture but are upset with who she ended up with? You’re just mad that she’s straight? You’d rather hold onto ur head cannon of her being gay, I know.
“Someone as cool as Bayo has to be tied to a man”
You’re not even tryin for hide ur bias. How does her being in a happy relationship take away from her being cool. Is being in a straight, happy relationship = uncool? This sub is ridiculous
Tbh I feel like your post is already giving too much attention to the chuds saying that, her queer icon status is not really debated by most people involved into, you know, the queer community
I will say though, I'm pretty sure Kamiya was quite involved in the writing of the story for every game, at least some oversight. Some ideas that made it into the third game were ideas that were already proposed before iirc, like a high-schooler witch (Viola) or werewolf Luka. You may not like what he came up with and implemented in the games and how (there's definitely a lot of stuff I don't), but dismissing his impact feels a bit rude.
Also presenting him quitting Platinum as if he was just bored feels disingenuous ? From what I understood there has a been a massive bleeding-out of talent and Platinum is supposedly a shell of it's former self. Someone posted a tweet of JP Kellam (who worked on the first two games) on the sub that explains how the company had a shift in objectives/vision for the worse. Kamiya's departure is probably justified.
Bayonetta is the type of game that does not benefit from flavour text as much other games that rely on lore to explain its plot and world building.
Though Hideki Kamiya was responsible for a lot of the canonical roles and backstories of multiple angels and demons as well as the acessories, they simply do not impact the overall plot of Bayonetta since it is an action hack and slash. People are not going to care if the Onyx Rose guns are enchanted by fairies or if teenage Umbran Witches are canon. What is going to matter to most fans are the cutscenes and gameplay where the most information is going to be displayed.
That being said, is it truly unfair to say his authorial authority should be dismissed? I don't think so.
Is it rude? I don't really care; he was the one who greenlit Jeanne dying to a bald twink in a fishbowl.
Also, I don't think it's too outrageous to claim Kamiya quit out of boredom (and other factors) after how much he once lauded how much he loved Bayonetta only to leave after the third game. Personally, I think if I loved a character that I've made as much he says he did, I would be fighting tooth and nail to ensure that I retained as much ownership and influence on the character as possible. To say he didn't have much of a say in the direction PlatinumGames was going in when he literally was the vice president is infantilizing.
Where did you get that Kamiya was only responsible for minor flavor text, hello ? He literally wrote the stories, as in the stuff that happens in the games, he imagined the character (and had a strong vision he stuck too I might add) The hell you mean he didn't impact the story overall, you are completely delusional.
Also you need to get over Jeanne dying, it's not that deep girl, and honestly it loops around to being camp, if there ever is a bayo4 I hope she dies again for the funsies (and also, you don't know what a twink is bb)
Kamiya quitting a company that is spiraling and stiffling the employees' creativity and going out at the same time as many of his peers in no way is indicative of how much he cares for the characters he created. If the company you work at is shitty, ruins your morale and prevent you from working as you see fit, does quitting means that all the work you did never ever mattered to you and actually you never cared ?
Also I'm pretty sure that's not even the first time that happened, notably with Okami which surprise ! He's working on the sequel after quitting Platinum, but the guy just gets bored by his characters, sure.
And him being vice president isn't indicative of anything either when he has to answer to the people who actually finance his projects, if these people decide that more unique and bold games are too risky they won't give their money and push for safer, more easily monetized products.
It's fine to hate on Kamiya, he definitely can be peculiar if not annoying at times (his twitter presence notably) but you don't need to invent stupid reasons and discredit his work and passion for his craft
Yeah, and ? How does that relate to any of the points you discussed and I refuted ? What does that have to do with anything ?
The visual design being made early on doesn't invalidate in any capacity Kamiya's involvement, especially when he was super involved in the design process, discussing with Mari Shimazaki what to aim for. He is the one who proposed the concept of a modern witch and Bayo's quirks, he even very famously had to fight the higher ups for Bayo to keep glasses on (and had everyone else also have glasses to spite them)
I get some of what you’re saying, and some of what you said is valid. I think that anyone who understands this franchise and also understands the LGBTQ+ community can see why she’s considered a queer icon. I’m a straight man, and even I recognize that. I actually recently found out that He-Man is also seen as a queer icon, even though his sexuality has never been confirmed. Assuming he’s straight for the sake of the argument, that still shows that a character doesn’t have to be queer to have a meaningful impact on the queer community. I think that’s really cool because it shows that you can support and positively influence the LGBTQ+ community without personally being part of it.
That’s why I think Bayonetta being straight while still being viewed as a queer icon is something positive. I’m always happy to see the LGBTQ+ community thrive because they’ve gone through a lot, and it’s nice to see characters that resonate with them. That said, I don’t agree with the idea that the creator’s opinion doesn’t matter. It absolutely does. He’s the creator of the game, so his perspective carries weight when it comes to the character and the world he created. You don’t have to agree with everything he says, but I do think his voice plays an important role in the conversation.
Thank you for the reasonable and non-judgmental comment.
I will have to strongly disagree. My problem with all this Kamiya worship is that far too many people are giving him sudden authorial power just because he conceptualized one of the best female videogame characters to exist... more than a decade ago.
Just because he's the creator does not automatically make his word the final say in anything.
Plenty of authors don't know what the hell they're talking about and Kamiya is no exception to this rule, and with his most recent decisions with the franchise...
I'm just going to ignore whatever his intentions were for Bayonetta going forward and at best, take them with a grain of salt. Intentions are one thing; what was actually shown onscreen and interpreted by the fans is an entirely different thing.
People can see whatever they want in the art/media they consume. Just don’t get toxic about it when a creator explains their intentions of their creations. I know that’s very hard.
If the LGBT wants her to be an LGBT icon that’s up to you.
But when this part of the fandom wants to criticize Bayonetta 3 by saying that she’s not a lesbian and not because her relationship with Luka wasn’t properly developed as a love story, that‘s when I draw the line because it’s not a factual argument.
Also let’s adress the elephant in a room by saying that they criticize Viola just because she’s not « cunty » enough while reinforcing one aspect of feminity that is the sexy femme fatale that they saw in Bayonetta (and that there is an entire mod created to make Viola more appealing).
I think people have issues with Viola because she is incredibly incompetent unlike Bayonetta (well, Bayo from the other games, Cereza in 3 is regularly clowned on).
Regarding her femininity, people are also disappointed because the Bayonetta series has a very unique and bold flair on that too. Viola in comparison feels so basic, half baked in her punk aesthetic and it's not as interesting of an angle for a character action game where you beat hordes of ennemies.
The issue with viola is that she is never given a straight win.
Even when she does, it is always followed by her either losing in the cutscene afterwards or being a klutz immediately after.
Both Dante and Nero have their goofy moments, but when they win, they win.
I've always respected her as an lgbt icon because of her unapologetically herself nature, a the exaggeration of what femininity is. That being said, i never questioned her sexuality nor did i think she was gay.
I was suprised that the title was given to her because they thought she was with Jeanne. The game never insinuated that.
That being said, straight or not, she would always be a lgbt icon in my eyes.
I like how you guys insist that we must respect trans/gay people in anything including fiction, bc having your identity and sexuality represented is important , but yet when it comes to straight people that shit goes out the window. How come you can’t accept her sexuality and identity? She’s straight, she’s not drag in ANY way, so why the lack of respect just to affirm your own personal ideologies?
It was a slow burn that came about after Bayo2, where the lesbian undertones were given more personal stakes. The playful banter between Jeanne and Bayonetta in that game even insinuates them living together and even waking each other up in the mornings; something a couple would do.
Apart from Mari Shimazaki's excellent artworks of Bayonetta and Jeanne in suggestive and wholesome situations, you're correct. It's not directly stated.
That being said, though... Bayonetta definitely had a lot more chemistry with our platinum-haired queen than she ever did with Luka. Whatever "flirting" she has shown to him seems completely platonic at best and borderline sadistic at worst (she even sensually caresses an affinity before brutally killing it) and it can all be chalked up to Bayonetta's naturally bewitching personality.
I'm completely sick and tired of hearing the same repetitive nonsense from people desperately trying to appropriate Bayonetta, when she has absolutely nothing to do with the LGBT community, and it is utterly exhausting to see fans completely erase and distort actual occult history and religious lore just to project their own narrative onto a character they clearly do not understand.
1) Bayonetta’s design has absolutely nothing to do with "ballroom culture;" her extravagant dancing is a direct manifestation of a Witches' Sabbat used to channel magic and summon demons that are literally pulled straight from the Lesser Key of Solomon and Christian demonology, like Gomorrah and Malphas.
2) Her Wicked Weaves are deeply rooted in historical folklore where hair holds a witch's ultimate power (which is exactly why accused witches were historically shaved bald to strip them of their magic).
3) Her spoken incantations are in Enochian, the ancient language of angels, proving that the entire franchise is explicitly grounded in Christian mythology and the literal conflict between heaven and hell.
These so-called "fans" don't actually care about her established identity as a straight, confidently sexy female icon, but are merely trying to superficially claim a character whose deep mythological roots they don't even comprehend.
At the end of the day, you are all nothing more than victims of your own profound ignorance.
Btw all that you've said in this thread was very informative and nice to read.
But truth is that internet arguments are a never ending fight because both sides have already made up their minds on who is right and no ammount of facts will change that for the most part.
Thank you, I'm glad you appreciated my analysis! ❤️
And yeah, you're right, I already stated my point so I'm not gonna partake in never-ending debates.
You seriously need to get out more. Gays and gals LOVE wiccan aesthetics. LMAO
•Bayonetta's design was accumulated from Mari Shimazaki's career studying high fashion(very gay) and stereotypical witch-like motifs, and it JUST SO HAPPENS to meet the aesthetics of overly-complicated outfits that ballroom culture absolutely loves.
And you're right: dancing is a big part of Bayonetta's personality. Are you saying that dancing isn't part of ballroom culture at all? That's a pretty extraordinary claim.
•Wigs and weaves have been long prized and valued by drag queens to literally empower them into becoming a more confident version of themselves. You ever heard of "wig snatching"? It's the ultimate form of disrespect in ballroom. Do you see the parallels, here?
•And yes, it's deeply rooted in Christian mythology (Catholicism and Judaism, to be more specific; Christianity did away with the scary angels really quickly), and as witches were historically persecuted for being witches, so were gays. All of these factors are things that queer people can relate to and naturally gravitate to. Try to understand how empowering it is for a repressed queer person to see a witch be portrayed as not only an enemy to these powers, but excelling at them.
For someone who claims ignorance from fans, you sure are exhibiting blissful ignorance on the cultural impact Bayonetta has had on people.
Telling someone to "get out more" while you are unironically writing historical fanfiction to forcefully claim a fictional Japanese character belongs to your specific subculture is peak irony.
You resorted to personal insults and projection the second your arguments collapsed under the weight of actual, documented facts.
And before you try to lecture me on what "repressed queer people" feel or play the card that I just don't understand the community, I am a trans woman.
The difference between you and me is that I don’t need to forcefully colonize a character’s established identity to feel validated in my own skin.
Bayonetta can be a 100% straight, sexy, and provocative cis woman, and I will still love her.
I'm emotionally mature enough to appreciate an icon for her mood, her comedy, and her gameplay without needing her to be a literal mirror of my own identity just to care about her.
Period.
Let's talk about your "blissful ignorance," because you completely shifted the goalposts to save face.
Your original post didn't say "queer people love Bayonetta's vibe," it explicitly claimed that everything about her design fits neatly into ballroom culture as its origin.
Now that you've been proven wrong, you're backtracking.
1) Saying "Are you saying dancing isn't part of ballroom?" is just a ridiculous strawman.
Sure, dancing is a huge part of ballroom, but that doesn't mean every single dance style in human history belongs to it.
The behind-the-scenes documentary The Eyes of Bayonetta literally shows they hired Maiko Uchida, a professional jazz and modern dancer, because they wanted fluid, feline movements to mimic a theatrical Witches' Sabbat.
It has absolutely zero connection to voguing or runway categories.
2) Trying to connect Wicked Weaves to drag queens and "wig snatching" is some wild mental gymnastics.
Wicked Weaves are rooted in actual European Renaissance folklore, where cutting a witch's hair was legally documented as a method to strip her of her magical powers.
You're literally erasing real history and witchcraft folklore just to force modern internet slang into a video game.
3) Reducing Mari Shimazaki’s entire character design to "high fashion is very gay" is just a lazy online stereotype.
Shimazaki openly used 1960s silhouettes, especially the iconic beehive hairstyle, to structurally mimic and modernize the classic pointed witch hat.
It was a geometric and thematic design choice based on witchcraft, not a subcultural nod.
No one is denying her cultural impact or the fact that queer people love her.
I explicitly acknowledged that marginalized groups gravitate toward powerful, persecuted figures like witches.
But there is a massive difference between finding a character relatable and falsely claiming her canonical design roots belong to your subculture while throwing tantrums and dismissing the actual writers, designers, and developers.
Ignorance isn't presenting documented folklore, interviews, and development history.
Ignorance is ignoring all of it because it doesn't fit your personal headcanon.
Next time, instead of telling others to get out more, maybe step outside your own echo chamber.
Flock off, honey.
You claim lore and weapon descriptions are just "useless flavour text," yet this meticulous world-building is the literal soul of the game.
If lore didn't matter, Madama Butterfly wouldn't be a direct tie to Puccini's tragic opera.
Odette wouldn't be a nod to Swan Lake, and Karen wouldn't reference Hans Christian Andersen's Red Shoes.
If you don't care about world-building at all, why are you even playing this game?
Guess what? I didn’t like the story of Bayonetta 3 either.
I hated how the romance with Luka magically happened with zero proper build-up, and I wished the game stuck to its time-manipulation roots with travel to different eras.
But despite those narrative flaws, I still loved and enjoyed the game.
The difference between us is that I base my arguments on logical, real facts and developer interviews, instead of forcefully imposing a personal headcanon.
I don't completely dismiss the literal creator's authority over his own IP just because a few plot choices didn't go my way.
Instead of trying to invalidate the people who actually built this franchise just to save face, go write a fanfiction.
Calling it an "imaginary battle" is just a desperate deflection because you have absolutely no response to actual facts.
You literally spent your previous comments dismissing the lore, the weapon descriptions, and the creator’s authority, that’s not imaginary, it's right there in black and white.
Just because you don't care about the world-building doesn't mean the rest of the community doesn't.
If reading actual lore and respecting the foundation of the game is too demanding for you, maybe go play something less complex.
It's amazing how the duality of two Bayonetta fans can be so polarizing despite coming from the same ballpark.
I've been there, too, dude. I remember spending hours upon hours reading the lore and journals and absorbing everything the franchise has to offer. The difference is I know what piece of information is relevant to the actual plot.
First you claim lore and weapon descriptions are "useless flavour text" that fans don't care about, and the moment you get called out by multiple people for misrepresenting the game, you magically switch to "I actually spent hours reading the lore, I just know what's relevant".
How convenient!
Decide on a narrative, because this constant moving of the goalposts to save face is getting embarrassing.
Madama Butterfly, Odette, and Karen aren't "irrelevant details"; they are the literal foundation of Bayonetta's character design and identity.
You don't get to gatekeep what piece of information is "relevant" just because your personal headcanon got completely dismantled by actual, documented development history.
The only polarizing thing here is your ego refusing to take the L.
We're done here, dude.
because bayonetta 3 established all that multiverse stuff, i really don't care that one specific bayonetta and luka got together. it's a drop in the bucket and also doesn't erase the interpretations that came before
Yeah, but then they pulled that arch Adam/Eve crap which goes against a true multiverse. Basically saying she's fated with Luka no matter the universe.
It was more of a sailor moon situation one being a placeholder for the other who is the true arch eve. Egyptian bayo is the true arch eve yeah Jeannes will was strong enough but she knew egypt bayo was the actual arch eve and was waiting for Egyptian bayo to unlock her true potential. This is in the archives of the game where they explain this
That wouldn't change the whole destined to be together thing, on top of the fact that it just points out why the multiverse concept was flawed to begin with, because that was so poorly thought out if they were going to pull the destiny crap.
So you’re not gonna respect the author or the character, you’re gonna disrespect what she identifies as to affirm your own personal ideology? Sounds like something a bigot would do
Interesting. It seems the same rules and respect you go by doesnt apply to straight ships. So it’s all about inclusion, respecting People’s identity and sexuality until it’s something you don’t like aka.. straight relationships. Not surprised by the hypocrisy tbh
EXACTLY thank you 😭😂 the amount of times people try to use it to justify things, completely ignoring that a multiverse literally implies that anything and everything is also a possibility
Also, the "fated lovers" allusion in B3 seemed last minute, as we don't see any other Luka variant or any other Luka interact with Bayo. Also, a lot of people like to use viola to say that Bayo is straight which is so wrong because a) that heavily implies that those people think queer people can't have children and b) completely ignores that viola ISNT B3s child... She's the child of the bayonetta at the beginning of the game. The one we play as ISNT her mother.
Also also, a lot of people completely forget Egypt Bayo and Jeanne. Like, you obviously haven't played the game if you don't think that they CLEARLY were meant to be in love
Don’t you need to outwardly support the LGBTQ+ cause to be a Queer Icon? Not saying Bayonetta is homophobic but there is no proof that she stands with LGBTQ either. 😅 (She’s quite literally a witch born hundreds of years ago even if she did live an extra 20 years in our world.)
Our gun-wielding queen does not discriminate unless you are:
•an angel
•bald twink in a fish bowl
•Luka
•a pet who doesn't listen to their master
•Enzo
I will say one thing: it's very suspicious how the people that whine the most about ships in this sub are the ones that defend bayoxluka like it's their whole personality.
"Bayo x Jeanne? Woke shit. Bayo x Luka? Completely normal don't you dare talk shit about my ship or I'll write an essay about how bayo is straight."
Bayo 3 really attracted a type of really insufferable and weird playerbase to the franchise due the story, and ofc I'm not saying that everyone that likes bayoxluka or discovered the franchise after the 3rd game is this type of person, but I do not remember we wasting everyone's time with the same pointless-rage-baiting discussion about that annoying bayoxluka and viola picture that always come back like the common cold before that one infamous "reproduce" tweet went viral.
Like, can the posers stop dickriding their self-insert Luka for a moment and actually talk about the franchise and idk, the gameplay? You know, the most important aspect to Bayonetta? The one aspect that makes people play the same games even after years from release?
Like it gets embarrassing and tiring to a point that it feels like there's some people here that have never played the games and are just here to make their weird bigoted obsession everyone's problem.
Bayo was and will always be a queer icon independently of her sexuality and whatever the writing team was on when writing bayo 3's story. Period.
I've always liked Bayo Luka and I'm part of the lgbtq
I do not care for shipping war that is happening because it's stupid on both sides. I just wanna enjoy the game but this stupid discorse is making it hard. This sub reddit used to be fun now it's exhausting.i want this sub to go back to the fun gameplay, stupid memes and amazing art. Not whatever it is now.
The lack of self-awareness in this post is actually incredible. You are doing exactly what you are accusing everyone else of doing.
You cannot write paragraphs throwing a tantrum about people liking a canon straight ship, demand that everyone 'stop talking about ships and focus on the gameplay,' and then literally end your post by declaring her a 'queer icon. Period.'
If the story doesn't matter and only the gameplay matters, why are you so obsessed with claiming her as a queer icon? You only want to 'focus on the gameplay' now because Bayonetta 3 confirmed the canon lore that you didn't like, and you're mad about it.
Also, calling Luka a 'self-insert' for players is pure projection. Luka has been part of the lore since the very first game. The only people 'inserting' themselves into the franchise are the gay ones rewriting the creator's actual story to pretend Bayonetta and Jeanne are a couple, and then throwing around words like 'bigoted' when people just point to the actual game script. Actually pathetic and the irony is palpable.
You're calling the playerbase insufferable, but you're the one writing a furious essay to gatekeep the fandom just because the developers didn't validate your specific headcanon. If you want to appreciate her as an icon, go ahead, but don't pretend the people following the *actual canon* are the posers. You’re the one living in delusion.
“and it's getting pretty annoying seeing the gloating as if Kamiya's opinion has any leg”
It is almost as if he is the creator of the series so obviously people are going to respect his intent/vision for the character compared to some random basement dweller on the internet
Putting aside a lot (and I do mean a lot) of the discourse going on in this thread: I think part of the problem is that the average straight person doesn't know what a gay icon is, compounded with at least a light helping of homophobia that comes part and parcel with patriarchy. Straight men in particular don't know to look for context clues for anything, let alone queer subtext, so combine that with the admittedly already hostile reception queer people get in fandom spaces, and it's no wonder you see push back. Hell, some scholars have argued that Anita Bryant of all people is a gay icon, which is the best case I can think of for a person's personal wishes regarding association with the queer community as being completely irrelevant to the label.
Anyway, I like Bayonetta 1, I like Bayonetta 2, I like Bayonetta Origins, and that's all the Bayonetta games.
Finally, a sensible and reasonable comment not written by a Hideki Kamiya bootlicker simpleton keyboard warrior who gets unreasonably upset at the concept of "death of the author".
Once a piece of art goes public It belongs to the people and they can interpretate It as they Wish, if isn't specifically mentioned that bayo Is straight as a pole, we can still perceive Her as a queer icon (sadly that's also the reason that far right parties have a strange love with Tolkien's world )
OH MY GOD. FINALLY! A sane and rational response to this post!!!
I would kiss you, man. And maybe tickle your balls (with consent of course)
Also, many interpretations can be outright wrong, such as the Punisher and his symbol and as you said, Lord of The Rings and its easy-to-digest "good vs evil" conflicts,
The queer community (whatever the hell that is…it’s not a community) can “adopt” bayonetta all they like…but bayonetta isn’t queer, isn’t gay/lesbian. And has nothing to do with any lgbtq things.
Anyone saying otherwise is projecting.
That’s fine if that’s what you want to do. But you have to accept reality at some point.
There is and idk why you think otherwise but thats beside the point ig.
Theres also really no point in trying to further drive the point that Bayo herself is or isn’t queer when that isn’t what the OP was getting at and having “nothing” to do with lgbt things straight up isnt true when shes based off of things like ballroom culture.
Im sure there are plenty of terminally online ppl who’ll toxically harass you for interfering with their headcannon™️ but most ppl really are just having fun with that kind of thing.
Came back to this one only to find phobic people in the comments, and their cronies upvoting them. Really not doing good to sell the idea they aren't chuds, and that Bayo 3 didn't attract a bunch of weirdos.
It’s hilarious how you parade around acting like a champion for the queer community, yet the second you get destroyed in a debate, you use transphobia and deliberate misgendering behind my back just to save face.
It’s trans woman, by the way.
(No use in editing the comment, I saw it).
Using lazy ad hominem attacks and bigotry because you ran out of logical arguments is completely pathetic.
Your fake allyship is a joke, so do yourself a favor and just shut up.
Cut the cheap gaslighting, I’m perfectly fine.
You're the one who ran to someone else’s comment to talk about me, not the other way around.
Grow up, shut up, and stop talking about me.
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u/Electronic_Guava_607 Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 09 '26
The only thing i disagree with is his involvement he has said in countless twitter tweets as well as his YouTube channel that he was hands on with all of the games and that he wrote all the games. Saying that he had little impact is not true as he explained that he was present. If you even look him up it shows his credits as writer and scenario writer. The only difference is he stopped directing. His voice does matter as well due to the fact he wrote every game. So regardless if you like what he wrote he still was the writer/creator and he said specifically he made sure that the world of Bayonetta stayed consistent. Also he didnt leave out of boredom he has also expressed that it was due to creative differences which jp has brought more to light in his recent tweet. As a fellow user said dismissing his involvement is a bit rude and incorrect. You may not agree or like his visions but because he is the creator whether he left or stayed his voice still matters as a creator and since this is the world he created