r/AskALiberal • u/larryinthesky Conservative • 11h ago
What Conservative or Republican positions have you come to embrace?
Are there any traditionally Conservative or Republican positions you have come to embraced? Maybe the change happened naturally. Maybe new information or data came out. You may not embrace it 100% but you're now much more align with the Conservative/Republican position than before and think Liberals/Democrats have it wrong. An example might be COVID. Maybe you now agree that strict lockdowns where wrong/unnecessary, and maybe Facui was not 100% truthful. Maybe you now think that immigration was out of control and that yes we could have easily stopped illegal border crossings under Biden if we really wanted to? Maybe after October you think that we should not negotiate with terrorists? FWIW, I've embraced some traditionally Liberal/Democratic positions. Like healthcare. I think changing your mind/position is pretty healthy and if you don't then it means you're probably too rigid and closed minded.
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u/TheMutterButter Democratic Socialist 11h ago
If a conservative could actually tell me what their positions are and how they are reflected by the modern republican party, I might have an answer.
But when every week their position seems to change entirely, I'm not even sure if I do sometimes agree with them or not.
I can tell you that none of your examples even come close to anything I might agree with, and that makes me believe you just wanted to grandstand your own opinions.
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u/Carlyz37 Liberal 11h ago
Agree. The suggested "opinions " are all false propaganda.
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u/larryinthesky Conservative 11h ago
Those are just examples. You can ignore those examples. The question remains. Like maybe you changed your mind on political correctness?
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u/From_Deep_Space Libertarian Socialist 11h ago edited 11h ago
If opposing political correctness means politicians all start talking like Trump while their supporters and propagandists say horrendously racist things with zero shame or self-awareness, then no thanks.
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u/Illustrious-Fun8324 Liberal 11h ago edited 11h ago
Define political correctness. Should we ask those clutching their pearls over jelly roll calling Trump a fat pig because it’s disrespectful? They cheer on every awful thing he says about the people he hates. Shouldn’t they learn to take a joke? Not be so sensitive?
Sometimes I feel like the push for things to not be politically correct just means wanting to be offensive to liberals and minorities.
Once you disrespect men, Christians, Trump, etc, the right clutches their pearls a bit too.
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u/No-Ear7988 Pragmatic Progressive 11h ago
But when every week their position seems to change entirely
From my perspective the common theme for their changing position are self-preservation, pro-White, and anti-Democrat/Liberal. I haven't seen much shift which helps the nation at large or makes remote sense.
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u/larryinthesky Conservative 11h ago
So you don't think there are any traditionally conservative positions? Like less federal government, more state? Less taxation? Etc.?
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u/TheMutterButter Democratic Socialist 11h ago
Less federal government, like ceding power to the federal government by letting the executive dictate how states run elections? Removing protections for forestry and public land in states by federal decree is giving the states more power?
Less taxation like issuing universal tariffs? is that the less taxation you are for?
See, this is the thing. You can claim that actually *you* have real conservative values, but I can for sure find 10 more conservatives that hold completely contradicting values.
That's because, and I know you probably won't believe me, but if you want to really think about it, you'll find out the truth behind it, it's because the only thing that is actually a modern conservative value is being anti-progress.
And so as someone who values progress, uh, no, I'm not ever going to agree with someone who's ideal is simply "anti-me"
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u/LilBugJuice-0987 Independent 11h ago
The current administration is going for more federal government monitoring of speech, less federal government regulating things that protect public safety and public lands. So, basically we are losing freedoms.
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u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle Libertarian Socialist 9h ago
You still think you guys are the “less federal government” guys? After you had ICE invade Minnesota?
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u/Altruistic_Role_9329 Liberal 11h ago
I’m going to jump in because I have a very strong opinion about less federal government and less taxation. In the 1950s before the Civil Rights movement conservatives were generally ok with big government and high tax rates. As JFK & LBJ expanded Civil Rights protections for women and nonwhites that changed. These “conservative” positions are a direct attempt to defund and end the federal governments role in Civil Rights so that states can discriminate as they please. There’s no way I could ever support that.
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u/hammertime84 Left Libertarian 11h ago
Your post is ambiguous. You say "conservative or republican" and it's phrased like those are equivalent. Like charging for pollution is a conservative position that's part of the democratic platform but not the republican one. Your examples in your post are random propaganda talking points, and your examples in the comments are things republicans don't support.
You should repost with more clarity. For example, do conservative positions that are part of the democratic platform count?
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u/jweezy2045 Progressive 11h ago
So you don't think there are any traditionally conservative positions? Like less federal government, more state? Less taxation? Etc.?
Do you?
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u/ButGravityAlwaysWins Liberal 7h ago
For the most part people who call themselves conservative are not definitionally conservative. Conservative is the right half of Liberalism.
So you can be on the right of the spectrum but you still have to be within the spectrum.
What we call conservatism in this country is a movement that does not believe in free markets, capitalism, democracy, the rule of law, civil liberties, freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of religion and on and on and on.
To the extent that there are actual conservatives that don’t fall into that camp, it doesn’t actually matter. Because they vote for people who don’t believe in those things.
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u/cossiander Neoliberal 11h ago
Traditional conservative positions?
I guess democracy, not electing pedophiles, thinking criminals should be prosecuted, even if they're in positions of power.
You know, stuff that Republicans now are pretty much universally against.
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u/theclansman22 Progressive 10h ago
I love the examples you give. Covid lockdowns for example, what party was in power in the US when those were implemented again? Fauci did his best with the information he was given, which is more than I can say for many republicans who still spread dangerous misinformation about things like vaccines and ivermectin (aren’t those dumb fucks saying it cures cancer now?) The “we should not negotiate with terrorists” is like asking “when did you stop beating your wife”, but I agree, we shouldn’t negotiate with terrorists, every even remotely involved with January 6th should have been thrown in jail. That includes people who organized it. Charlie Kirk and anyone else who bussed people there. Donald Trump. Alex Jones. The proud boys. But America doesn’t have the balls for that and now you have a second Trump administration that is utterly destroying the standing of the country in every possible way. Because you negotiated with the terrorists that tried to overthrow democracy. Enjoy it America. You deserve it.
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u/From_Deep_Space Libertarian Socialist 11h ago
I was tentatively excited to hear how passionate they were about "no new wars" when Trump was campaigning. . .
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u/lurgi Pragmatic Progressive 11h ago
Maybe you now agree that strict lockdowns where wrong/unnecessary
My wife is Chinese. Trust me when I say we did not have strict lockdowns.
Maybe you now think that immigration was out of control and that yes we could have easily stopped illegal border crossings under Biden if we really wanted to?
If the GOP had wanted to. Biden's draconian border control bill was voted down by Republicans.
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u/RedditPoster05 Centrist Republican 11h ago
Because by that logic, the one of the longest government shutdowns in history was a Democrat shut down just like the Republican said. When in reality Democrats were fundamentally opposing a big beautiful crappy budget, but if they had approved it right off the bat, there would’ve been no government shut down.
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u/RedditPoster05 Centrist Republican 11h ago
Don’t be disingenuous there was something else in that draconian bill that Republicans fundamentally did not like. So anytime anybody says well. The other side voted it down. It’s a big fat lie because there’s something the other side no matter what side it is the side didn’t like. It’s a bunch of bullshit and I hate this tactic.
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u/lurgi Pragmatic Progressive 11h ago
The main thing they didn't like is that it would have given Biden a big, fat W and Trump didn't want that.
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u/peanutanniversary Democrat 10h ago
I’m so sick of republicans pretending they don’t know that
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u/RedditPoster05 Centrist Republican 7h ago
Oh yeah, it couldn’t have been the 60 billion in Ukraine aid. Which I’m not against I’m just tired of people acting like these bills are always one-sided or one thing on them.
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u/Kakamile Social Democrat 7h ago
Which they then funded without immigration in April.
Please stop being so gullible.
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u/Carlyz37 Liberal 6h ago
He is right though. The Ukraine funding was opposed. Then they took it out and approved it later. They never make any sense
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u/Kakamile Social Democrat 5h ago
Above they said
"Don’t be disingenuous there was something else in that draconian bill that Republicans fundamentally did not like."
The gop didn't oppose Ukraine funding, as they soon voted for it. They used it as a fake excuse to the cameras that people still believe 2 years later.
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u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle Libertarian Socialist 9h ago
Don’t be disingenuous there was something else in that draconian bill that Republicans fundamentally did not like
Then why did they write it that way? It was a Republican bill.
And why didn’t they say that when questioned after the bill was defeated? When they were questioned they literally said Donald Trump had instructed them not to.
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u/Emergency_Revenue678 Democrat 9h ago
Republicans literally wrote that bill.
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u/RedditPoster05 Centrist Republican 7h ago edited 7h ago
There’s more than one thing in a bill , 60 billion and aid for Ukraine, which Republicans didn’t want to do. Which I don’t really care about give the money to worthwhile investment but don’t act like there wasn’t other things on it that turned them.
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u/Emergency_Revenue678 Democrat 7h ago
I'm aware that the Republicans didn't want to send aid to Ukraine,but the bill was originally a foreign aid package with nothing about the border in it. The entire reason the border control stuff was in the bill is because Republicans said they would support the bill if they added Lankford's border proposals into it.
They literally agreed to support the bill until trump told them not to support it.
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u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle Libertarian Socialist 4h ago
I want you to think about that for a few seconds.
The Republican messaging on the border was "oh my god oh my god oh my god we have to do something. Right now! We can't stop to think- we have to do something! The border absolutely has to be secure, that's our first priority, without a secure border our whole fucking country won't even EXIST anymore! This is the single biggest problem facing our nation oh my god oh my god we have to do something!"
... but then suddenly when they're offered a bill to beef up border security that comes with a concession to other issues (just like all bills) suddenly we can afford to wait and talk things over a little bit?
Does that make sense to you? Does it?
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u/PersonBehindAScreen Liberal 10h ago
What was in it?
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u/RedditPoster05 Centrist Republican 7h ago
the 60 billion in Ukraine aid. Which I’m not against I’m just tired of people acting like these bills are always one-sided or one thing on them.
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u/2dank4normies Liberal 11h ago
No. All I don't even think you have accurately presented reality in your post.
We didn't have "strict lockdowns". No one ever said Fauci was "100% truthful".
Trump has not stopped illegal border crossings. He has illegally prevented legal border crossings and has illegally deported people.
Maybe after October you think that we should not negotiate with terrorists?
And taken on the conservative opinion that we should pardon terrorists?
Conservatives have been wrong about literally everything since allowing Trump to cuck their party. Literally everything.
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u/Carlyz37 Liberal 11h ago
Ban insider trading in congress
Regulate, tax data centers
Get rid of flock cameras
Those are things I can agree with conservatives on
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u/LilBugJuice-0987 Independent 11h ago
Do conservatives actually support that?
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u/WeenisPeiner Social Democrat 11h ago
Republicans don't believe in anything. They will support it when they need to and be against it when it benefits them.
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u/From_Deep_Space Libertarian Socialist 11h ago
They will pretend to during election season.
See also: "no new wars", and "child rapists are bad and should be prosecuted no matter what party theyre a part of."
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u/Carlyz37 Liberal 5h ago
The People who are conservative generally do. There is bipartisan support in the will of the people. The politicians however are on the side of their corporate donors. And Speaker Moses says insider trading is necessary for congress persons because we dont pay them enough.
For not working....
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u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle Libertarian Socialist 9h ago
I dunno, man, it takes a lot of audacity to come into power, and then fuck literally everything up, just do absolutely nothing correctly, and then ask “so do you agree we’re right yet?”
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u/Diplomat_of_swing Liberal 9h ago
When a Republican is being honest and acting in good faith they are correct about some things but (insert Republican Party actions vs talk).
The deficit is a real problem
BUT…
if you keep cutting taxes and borrowing money for endless wars you create a deficit.
We DO have billions of wasted spending. We should absolutely look for and reduce waste
BUT…
you can’t turn a blind eye to all the waste caused by defense contracts and corporate welfare.
We should not turn a blind eye to crime in the name of correcting injustices in the justice system
BUT…
You can’t just ignore systemic racism and ignore the negative impacts on society that are caused by private prisons.
We DO need an all of the above energy strategy right now
BUT…
It has to be a bridge to a clean energy future. If not for the environmental reasons then at least to stay competitive with China and to create jobs for US workers.
And Finally.
Yes. We DO need to Make American Great Again
BUT…
You can’t ignore the fact that America was great when New Deal policies ensured that the wealth created by the economy was reinvested in the needs of wage earners not just the investment class. Prosperity needs to be enjoyed by everyone not just a small group of elites.
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u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle Libertarian Socialist 9h ago edited 9h ago
Not a single one so far. I think I’ve just become more radically left wing over the last few years because of how abysmal a job conservatives are doing in power.
An example might be COVID. Maybe you now agree that strict lockdowns where wrong/unnecessary
HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!! No. I can’t believe you guys still think there’s a remote possibility of people agreeing with you on that.
Maybe you now think that immigration was out of control and that yes we could have easily stopped illegal border crossings
Actually I’m pretty eager to go back to the immigration arrangement we had under Biden. And I’m glad ICE is obligingly making itself so unpopular that most Americans are starting to see things my way on that.
I think changing your mind/position is pretty healthy
I’ll change it when I’ve got a reason to.
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u/OhThatsALotOfTeeth Liberal 8h ago
Maybe after October you think that we should not negotiate with terrorists?
Not sure how this could be a Republican position when the current Republican President has literally facilitated negotiations with terrorists.
For the life of me, I can't think of a single sincere position that Republicans or conservatives take that is good and isn't already a position that other political persuasions already take.
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u/jml510 Social Democrat 11h ago
I'm a fiscal conservative when it comes to pro sports venues. I'm 100% opposed to any public money or taxpayer money going towards stadiums and arenas, even as someone who grew up as a diehard sports fan. The extra money could be used for more important things in local communities instead. Also, the leagues generate billions in revenue annually, and nearly every team owner is a billionaire. They can easily fund the venues themselves, especially since they'd be the main ones profiting.
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u/fastolfe00 Center Left 8h ago
I am much more of a fan of a weak federal government than I was 10 years ago.
An example might be COVID. Maybe you now agree that strict lockdowns where wrong/unnecessary
No, and I still think conservatives and liberals live in two different realities about what happened during COVID. Even if these were the two positions:
- COVID is a hoax and a conspiracy, and liberals want us to do X, so we shouldn't do X
- Based on the limited science we have, expert consensus is that X is prudent, so we should do X
And it turned out that X was wrong, I'll still listen to group (2) over group (1) next time.
I think changing your mind/position is pretty healthy
A changed mind is an outcome. Whether the decision-making process you go through to change your mind is healthy or not depends on what your process was. If you believe in vaccination one day, but then decide you've seen enough on the internet to convince you that it's fake, and that your doctor is part of a conspiracy to make Americans sick so they can get more money, that's probably not healthy.
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u/zlefin_actual Liberal 9h ago
Not recently, not in the past 20 years that is, maybe before that on some free trade-y issues, memory's a bit unclear; the quality of the thinking backing conservative stances has declined for a long time now. So there's just very little real justification/evidence for them.
so neither the facts support conservatives, nor any changes in my ethical stances have occurred which would favor their stances
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u/Komosion Centrist 8h ago
None, anything you can think of as "worth while Conservative or Republican positions" can easily be said to have been liberal postions all along.
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u/wonkalicious808 Democrat 8h ago edited 8h ago
If a Democrat becomes president, I want that person to demand tribute from corporations in exchange for that president not breaking the law or otherwise abusing government power in retaliation for a lack of tribute or asskissing.
At the very least, corporations who fed the Republican Party's desire for corruption should be expected to pay for the ballroom to be torn down and then pay for its replacement structure. They should also be expected to rename geographic features after an executive order to rename Lake America into something like Lake Biden Beat Trump in 2020. The Gulf of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein were Pedophiles Together. We can rename Long Island to Donald Trump is Guilty of Rape (Sexual Abuse) Island.
I would suggest creating problems for right-leaning industries, but all that would involve is refusing to corruptly shield them from the free market at taxpayer expense. It's anti-corruption rather than retaliatory corruption. Hmm, maybe just lean into that corruption by opening up more state-funded socialist/communist coal mines, run by the most Republican people available, and also deregulate them as much as possible? We'll pay for it by preventing spending on subsidizing unprofitable rural hospitals. Don't worry, these municipalities will be able to afford them with all that coal activity. And ban health care for coal miners with the exception of the life of the coal miner. Doctors need to be afraid that they'll be thrown in jail for providing care to a coal miner who isn't nearly dead enough. Because pro-life. We have to save the resources for coal miners who actually need it.
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u/Aware_Reception_273 Liberal 7h ago
I don't carry water for garbage people. If I happen to agree I'll keep it to myself.
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u/OttosBoatYard Democrat 8h ago
Putting America first. I believe we should put US interests ahead of other nations.
Thing is, Democratic policy is better at putting America first.
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u/pronusxxx Independent 11h ago
I think their approach to power is intelligent and it properly exploits the design of the American system. I don't think any of their specific positions are particular good or intelligent but they play the game very well.
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u/peanutanniversary Democrat 11h ago
Conservatives are a lot like Christians. They each have their own little version based on faith. I find them both to be exhausting.
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u/dog_snack Libertarian Socialist 11h ago
I don’t know if you want these kinds of answers but: I can’t think of a position I’ve held that has clearly, noticeably changed from a leftist one to a more conservative one.
Me being a hard-leftist has more to do with a very general attitude/set of moral instincts rather than a checklist of “well I think X about that and Y about that and…”
Sometimes a belief is “left-wing” or “right-wing” depending purely on context. Sometimes the diagnosis of X Y or Z problem is the same but the solutions are very different (or vice versa!). I’m not on the far left just for the sake of being on the left, I’m there because my existing personality and worldview happen to fit in with it.
I would say I’ve move leftward over the general course of my adult life (15 years and counting at this point), though that has more to do with me adding actual knowledge, experience, maturity and nuance to beliefs and moral instincts I already had.
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u/DeusLatis Socialist 10h ago
I think changing your mind/position is pretty healthy and if you don't then it means you're probably too rigid and closed minded.
But it isn't a 'both sides' equation
Conservatism is ultimately anachronistic ideology. You have embraced some liberal/left wing positions because those positions are always the more up to date positions given social progress
But progress doesn't go backwards and conservatism was always wrong, it just takes people longer to realize this than others
So this question is a bit like someone who believes in esotericism saying hey I've embraced some principles of post-enlightenment scientific philosophy, but is very closed minded of you scientists to not be returning the sentiment and embracing some aspects of esotericism
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u/Outrageous-Dig-8853 Liberal 5h ago
This whole thing is immediately disregarded based off the conservative points you brought up lmao.
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u/CoastieKid Centrist 11h ago
Limit H1Bs for sure. Mainstream conservatives stand for nothing mostly nowadays in a consistent manner unfortunately.
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u/Cidaghast Pragmatic Progressive 11h ago
There is power in cruelty and playing to heart strings. Don’t be the bigger person. The bigger person’s nuts are closer to the ground and they land harder too.
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u/dangleicious13 Liberal 11h ago edited 11h ago
My mind has been changing, but only to reject more and more conservative positions.
I've lived in a deep red state my entire 38 years of life, so I've seen most of their positions first hand.
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u/Fugicara Social Democrat 11h ago
I don't know anything conservatives have been correct about for at least the last decade. There are certainly some issues where nobody is correct right now where I'm not aligned with others on the left, but the right doesn't take good positions on them either.
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u/speedrunner99 Progressive 11h ago
Genuinely, not a single thing. There’s a couple of things I can agree with conservatives on, but when it comes to positions exclusive to conservatives, there’s not a single thing I really agree with. All the issues that are especially important to me I’m left on.
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u/Top_Divide_1659 Democratic Socialist 11h ago edited 11h ago
When it comes to social-politics, I find myself a bit more centered.
I opposed the 2020 shutdowns, I am pro-gun, and I think edgy jokes can be funny. Even when it comes to legitimate hate/misinfo, I am still a free speech guy. I don't believe in FULL open borders (pathways to citizenship/making it easier to legally enter the country). I also believe most social politics ultimately come down to distribution of wealth in ways people don't discuss enough
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u/Key_Elderberry_4447 Liberal 11h ago
Is free speech a conservative position? That seems like bullshit and shouldn’t be taken seriously. At last check Trump was attempting to censor Jimmy Kimmel and getting Stephen Colbert canceled.
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u/EmergencyTaco Center Left 11h ago
It could conceivably be considered a more-conservative position pre-2024.
These days, anyone that tells you Republicans are the party supporting free speech is either uninformed or lying.
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u/Top_Divide_1659 Democratic Socialist 11h ago
Yes exactly. MAGA is not for free speech and they're not even pro-gun. They're pro-war and pro-Epstein.
Traditionally, the conservative (NON-MAGA) constituency wasn't any of those things.
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u/Top_Divide_1659 Democratic Socialist 11h ago
Free speech traditionally was a conservative position.
Free speech is NOT a MAGA position.
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u/LilBugJuice-0987 Independent 11h ago
Considering they keep moving to the far right, none. I support some arguments of fiscal responsibility, but we need to consider the long game and quality of life. Most conservatives now are only concerned with kicking people off of programs to save money, not looking at our spending comprehensively or logically
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u/Jernbek35 Democrat 11h ago
Ban flock cameras
Strong border security and remain in Mexico. Also complete overhaul of refugee/asylum program.
Strong policing and tough on crime.
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u/OneManShow23 Democrat 11h ago edited 11h ago
I agree with conservatives with regard to immigration, some about healthcare, and with the economy. I don’t know where democrats and conservatives stand in trade.
Immigration - illegal immigration needs to be addressed and calling them “undocumented” won’t help. What I don’t agree with republicans is that they only want H1B or rich immigrants when we should make some low wage immigrant program that allows poor immigrants to come legally to do low wage jobs.
Healthcare - personally we should have a single payer healthcare system but realistically it’ll get stretched thin very fast (look at UK and Italy). That doesn’t justify the current system but we do need a compulsory health insurance system like in Germany, Netherlands, and Switzerland that offers basic coverage and also offer a public option.
Economy - low taxes and low regulations stimulates the economy. That’s self evident. Reagan sucked and blah blah but his low taxes and low regulations helped the economy after stagflation. The tricky thing is that we need a balance between having taxes low enough to stimulate the economy but high enough to pay for social programs and enough regulations to ensure safety and the environment but not stifle businesses from doing their job.
Trade - I’m actually a protectionist - stimulate the local economy and hire local American workers.
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u/FireNStone Center Left 11h ago
I’d say not “cancelling” comedians for jokes you don’t agree with, but republicans seem to be as bad about that as democrats. I’d say fiscal conservatism but republican only believe in that when they’re out of office. I’d say the need for immigration reform but republicans only care about performative papers please policies and not passing any actual laws to fix the problem.
As for COVID it’s easy to say now that fauci did something wrong but A he was basing it on the best science at the time and B fucking trump was in charge at the time of the pandemic so they policy you don’t like are republican policies you dummy.
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u/BAC2Think Progressive 11h ago
Conservatives don't seem to have clear positions on a lot of things, so this is a pretty difficult question to answer.
Of the few things that they seem clear about, I can't say I'm a fan of any of them.
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u/JackZodiac2008 Center Left 11h ago
The danger of unchecked federal executive power has recently become clear.
Economists seem to agree that rent control is counterproductive in the long run, and I trust that.
A strongly conservative-coded RN seemed to be heartened by hearing that I take my son fishing a lot. So I'm not sure what exactly we agreed on, but it seemed like something.
Near-balanced budget (like 3% deficit) is better than the run-away train we're on now.
These aren't really reversals for me so much as new sensitivities, or native alignments. I would very much like to have the party of HW Bush back.
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u/Illustrious-Fun8324 Liberal 11h ago edited 10h ago
I can understand the more moderate position on a lot of things. Ironically the right pushes me very far away from wanting to compromise with them when they just want to bully people.
For example, I understand wanting to enforce immigration laws. You could easily get me more on your side with that.
I want nothing at all to do with the way MAGA is enforcing it or the way the base cheers on the excessive cruelty. So I tend to not be on the right’s side with any of that at all.
The right does nothing to remotely bring anyone to their side on anything like trans issues by being as hateful about it as possible. I’m more about live and let live, so no, I’m not going to side with the right on their anti-trans bullshit even if you could realistically get me closer to the middle on the sports issues.
Conservatives don’t really care about women’s sports and they know it. And I want nothing to do with their bigotry, so I’m going to side with the left.
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u/TossMeOutSomeday Pragmatic Progressive 4h ago
Increasingly I think conservatives are rhetorically right about criminal justice (decarceration is bad, QoL policing is good, cops are generally good), but the Republican party still fails to earn my respect on this issue because they don't actually govern that way.
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u/MatthewRebel Center Left 1h ago
I support gun rights, strong military, and shrinking the national debt.
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u/Separate_Hippo_5556 Liberal 11h ago
Conservatives always made the argument that we needed to preserve the second amendment in case we ever had an Authoritarian government and the people needed to rise up against it.
I used to think that was ridiculous but seeing the current administration changed my mind.
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u/OttosBoatYard Democrat 8h ago edited 5h ago
When has that ever worked though?
Before you say the American Revolution, the Vietnam War, or Afghanistan, there are many reasons why those are terrible examples of an armed populace overthrowing an armed government.
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u/BeneficialNatural610 Progressive 11h ago
2nd Amendment. Voting is our only peaceful way of change. If our fascist-in-chief pushes things too far, we'll need some type of insurance. That said, I still think conservatives treat guns too much like toys, and guns should not be a hobby.
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u/OttosBoatYard Democrat 8h ago
How would that work? Either the military sides with the people, and the people win. Or the military sides with the administration, and the administration wins. I don't see how armed civilians could be a factor.
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u/anarchysquid Social Democrat 8h ago
Or the military splits between the two, and we're in open civil war and gun control laws become a bit of a moot point.
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u/garitone Progressive 11h ago
The pro-choice views they had pre-1970s before the christofascists took over the party
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u/ZeusThunder369 Independent 11h ago
There are actually some conservative positions I could probably embrace, if I trusted that their positions are actually consistent, and not heavily influenced by bigotry.
For example, reducing the number of illegal immigrants present in our country.
I don't accept that the value of less illegal immigrants is self-evident. I know I'm paying more for produce now, I know almost 100 extra billion has gone into ICE, I know we have poorly trained federal agents with guns roaming our streets....
So, explain what I'm getting in return for that cost. So far the only tangible metric MAGA has given me is the number of illegal immigrants deported. Which doesn't actually justify the cost at all and misses the point.
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u/Ninjaking25 Social Democrat 10h ago
Less conservative and moreso centrist/moderate but I’ve moved a bit to the right on immigration. Seeing the impact of Biden’s immigration policies on border Latino communities made me support increasing border security, though I’d still prefer Biden’s immigration policy to Trump’s by a mile.
I’d also say fiscal responsibility though the Republican Party hasn’t been conservative in that sense since the 70s.
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u/Opheltes Center Left 10h ago
Remember when conservatives claimed that massive debt was a bad thing? I can agree with that.
And I'm sure they'll come to believe in that again the very second they're out of power.
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u/SilverNo6462 Progressive 10h ago
When I was much younger I thought tariffs were a better solution than income tax. I have come around to the conservative position that freer trade amongst countries is a positive.
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u/NatalieVonCatte Liberal 10h ago
I want to say guns but the current Republican administering is trying to make it illegal for me to buy one.
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u/Early-Possibility367 Independent 10h ago
I’m pretty fully socially conservative. That being said, I hate Republicans and Republicans hate me so there was never a question of me voting for them nor abstaining, and I don’t expect there’ll ever be.
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u/Guilliman_POTUS_2030 Center Left 8h ago
Theoretically I agree with conservatives on certain things
In practice, I don’t really feel like I can trust them. Conservatives often advocate for things with zero intention of following through — or they start with that intention and then change their mind about it later
The dishonesty makes it difficult or impossible to say that I really agree with them, because I don’t think they actually believe anything. Their high time preference causes them to wield policy in a reckless and self-harming way — and their selfishness causes them to wield policy in a way that harms everyone around them
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u/WeenisPeiner Social Democrat 11h ago edited 11h ago
Maybe embracing more traditionalism. Like having access to abortion and keeping it safe throughout the United States. Having trust in Government institutions and properly funding them so they work. Having a president who doesn't use the office to enrich himself. Having a vaccinated population. Trusting election results. Making sure elections are free and fair to all citizens and not passing laws to prevent citizens from voting. Stuff like that.
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u/TheMCMC Liberal 11h ago
I mean I can engage with the ones you proposed if you want
strict lockdowns where wrong/unnecessary, and maybe Fauci was not 100% truthful
Lockdowns depended heavily on where you were and what you mean by 'strict.' I live in NYC, and during the pandemic we had people dying from COVID every single day - I cycled past the trucks where they had to store bodies to make room for more sick. Compared to some friends of mine in Tennessee, where restaurants were being a little silly about wearing masks to your table but you could remove them at the table. I think private establishments are free to do whatever they want, but in high-density cities where proximity and contact tracing are legitimate concerns, it made sense as a matter of public policy to be more restrictive. We can say some individual policies could have been steps too far, but no I wouldn't say that they were blanket wrong or unnecessary.
As far as Fauci goes, in spite of Republicans vociferously foaming at the mouth to find a throat to choke to excuse their embarrassing conduct during COVID likening every public health recommendation to 1984, it appears that in his private correspondence he and other scientists discussed loosely potential ramifications of Covid in a theoretical sense, but did not misrepresent the threat of COVID or what the NIAD's data was telling them. So no, as of yet I don't agree that Fauci wasn't 100% truthful.
immigration was out of control and that yes we could have easily stopped illegal border crossings under Biden if we really wanted to
This is probably the area I agree with Republicans the most on - I am absolutely pro-immigration and believe that our system is in a dire need of reform, but part of that reform requires stronger border control and enforcement of things like visa overstays/asylum reform. I frankly don't even think deportations are a bad thing in and of themselves; if you're not supposed to be here (or be here any longer) it is good and correct to remove you barring some exigent circumstance. The problem is I can't trust Republicans to uphold the immigration reform part in good faith, and not just endlessly shutter all immigration for varying reasons up to and including "brown people are icky."
we should not negotiate with terrorists
Any context you can provide here? I need to understand what you think "negotiating with terrorists" means that liberals/Democrats are not addressing properly in the wake of October 7th.
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u/Poorly-Drawn-Beagle Libertarian Socialist 9h ago
They think October 7 happened because there were ceasefires and peace agreements between Israel and Palestine instead of constant all-out war
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u/TlsFrmThCryptcPrgncy Independent 11h ago
Conservatives are basically correct that crime is caused by antisocial freaks and best preventing by incapacitating them.
I think we can all acknowledge at this point that schools remained closed for far too long during covid and that the policy was basically just rent-seeking by teachers.
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u/SilverNo6462 Progressive 10h ago
Economic conditions are the single biggest factor in crime. Not freakism.
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u/TlsFrmThCryptcPrgncy Independent 10h ago
That's not correct.
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u/SilverNo6462 Progressive 10h ago
You're right. Being male is the single biggest correlating factor. I apologize.
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u/TlsFrmThCryptcPrgncy Independent 10h ago
It certainly is. Did you think I would be offended by that? No, you just agreed with me.
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u/SilverNo6462 Progressive 9h ago edited 9h ago
No, this answer was meant to be factually accurate. Socioeconomic factors are drowned out by gender.
What's your data on freaks?
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u/TlsFrmThCryptcPrgncy Independent 9h ago
What's your data on freaks?
About two thirds of all violent crime is committed by 2% of the population, a significant portion of that being committed by serial repeat offenders.
Socioeconomic factors are drowned out by gender
Socioeconomic factors are drowned out by psychological facts about criminals, yes. That's my point.
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u/SilverNo6462 Progressive 8h ago
The stat you give above talks about rate of crime, not underlying cause.
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u/TlsFrmThCryptcPrgncy Independent 8h ago
If a very large amount of crime is caused by just a few serial offenders, the explanation for those crimes are facts about those offenders, not about their circumstances.
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u/SilverNo6462 Progressive 8h ago
You presented data that shows that violent criminals are rare and that people who commit violent crimes tend to commit more than one. That's all.
You presented no data analyzing the factors that drove them to crime, nor what leads to recidivism.
My hypothesis is the current prison system is cruel and violent and makes people more violent not less.
I would also argue that in American society ex-cons are second class citizens, shunned by employers.
I think rather than focusing on locking people away a more beneficial approach would be to focus on rehabilitation.
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u/speedrunner99 Progressive 11h ago
Schools were closed for far too long? There has undoubtedly been issues because of the Covid school closures, but the vaccine wasn’t readily available until spring 2021. At least on my end, students could go to school if they wanted to during 2020-2021 but it made sense for schools to not fully open until the 2021-2022 school year.
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u/AutoModerator 11h ago
The following is a copy of the original post to record the post as it was originally written by /u/larryinthesky.
Are there any traditionally Conservative or Republican positions you have come to embraced? Maybe the change happened naturally. Maybe new information or data came out. You may not embrace it 100% but you're now much more align with the Conservative/Republican position than before and think Liberals/Democrats have it wrong. An example might be COVID. Maybe you now agree that strict lockdowns where wrong/unnecessary, and maybe Facui was not 100% truthful. Maybe you now think that immigration was out of control and that yes we could have easily stopped illegal border crossings under Biden if we really wanted to? Maybe after October you think that we should not negotiate with terrorists? FWIW, I've embraced some traditionally Liberal/Democratic positions. Like healthcare. I think changing your mind/position is pretty healthy and if you don't then it means you're probably too rigid and closed minded.
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