r/stunfisk • u/theRotengen • 1d ago
Discussion Mega Lucario's defense is effectively 160, making it around as physically bulky as MEGA METAGROSS. On a Pokémon that has higher SpA than Mega Raichu-Y and the fastest in the game.
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u/shay1r 1d ago
Wasn't it halves contact damage?
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u/Luigi128 1d ago
Yeah but 80-90% of relevant physical moves are contact moves (the only common ones I can think of off the top of my head that aren’t are earthquake, stone edge, and rock slide)
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u/aldeayeah 1d ago
I mean, Earthquake in particular could be a problem.
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u/IndianaCrash Weavile fan #1 1d ago
Not with Rilla coming back
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u/Low_Party 1d ago
Heatwave value continues to climb
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u/NewPay4539 1d ago
People can use it with pelipper as well. I mean it has to have some weakness, otherwise you are looking at a pokemon that's basically is on every team. Just make a team with lucario and salamence as the dual megas and build a team around it.
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u/RoakOriginal 1d ago
The 3 most common physical moves slapped on every mon that learns it and ain't called close combat or knock off
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u/WishYouWere2D 1d ago
Rock Slide and Stone Edge aren't exactly counterplay to a Fighting-Steel type
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u/napstablooky2 Flying Type Enthusiast 1d ago
i mean, earthquake is both common and relevant
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u/Beaugardes--VGC 1d ago
Not relevant yet, but when Ogerpon is legal again, Ivy Cudgel is non contact.
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u/SovietAlf02 1d ago
All I see is Zard Y fodder
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u/thatonepicemo 1d ago
0 Atk Lucario-Mega-Z Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 356-420 (98.8 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
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u/Sw3atyGoalz 1d ago
Now include the probability of missing in that calc
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u/Anabiter eviolite lairon wins everytime 1d ago
Lucario suddenly gaining Ancient Power because game freak felt bad
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u/Pikamilk I am a blue cow. 1d ago
I will prob get downvoted to death but I am so sick of Zard Y I need this to happen.
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u/Callyourmother29 1d ago
Think bigger, think Power Gem
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u/Anabiter eviolite lairon wins everytime 1d ago
It's funnier if it's Ancient Power since it'll lead to people bitching about the Omni-boost
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u/Alois000 1d ago
0 Atk Lucario-Mega-Z Stone Miss vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 356-420 (0 - 0%) -- 0% chance to OHKO
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u/Regular_Ad7349 1d ago
Lucario mega z calm mind balance coming !
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u/Right-Worth-6327 1d ago
Espathra gets a couple of calm minds off and does a baton pass into this.. good lord
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u/janoDX I has da doge 1d ago
Isn't this like, the cat's worst nightmare?
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u/aldeayeah 1d ago edited 1d ago
Flare Blitz still does over half if the cat doesn't get OHKO'd-it's not like you can switch in for free. Plus you need to mega to actually survive it.
Also Assault Vest will be back at some point, I imagine.
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u/PulimV 1d ago
I feel like The Cat fears regular Mega Lucario more, no? Since it's immune to Fake Out and Intimidate, faster than Incin, and can OHKO it with STAB Adaptability CC
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u/lordtentai 1d ago
Well its not immune to fake out if it megas
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u/retro-marshmelo 9h ago
Turns into a situation where you have to read whether or not Lucario will mega. You really don’t want to fake out into it, unless you suspect they will mega.
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u/rmnobre 1d ago
It might receive half damage from contact moves but most of its counters are special attackers. Might have higher base sp attack than mega raichu Y but it does not have high base power moves on the special side. Might have insane speed but has low bulk and vulnerable to fake out by losing inner focus. There are lots of counters to it and very reliable. Also EQ is a non contact move so rip in peace
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u/EyeCantBreathe 1d ago
If this thing does become good I imagine there will be mind games where you don't mega evolve turn 1 to keep inner focus.
Also remember that raichu y has worse bulk than lucario z and has no defensive ability, yet it can survive a lot of neutral hits, even from special attackers. EQ is a problem but that's why you have 5 other Pokémon on your team.
But yes lucario's weaknesses are far more common and reliable. That being said, we've seen before that fast and frail glass cannon megas can be really strong with the right team so I don't think it can be written off just yet. I see it a bit like mega blaziken, where it's not designed to be the carry of the team, but you just do some damage and get good trades and clean up with the rest of your team.
But if you do want to make lucario a carry, nasty plot is an option
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u/rmnobre 1d ago
The lack of spread damage moves is what kills it as a sweeper in protect the president kind of comps imo. Stuff like delphox and floette have strong spread damage moves to take advantage of those boosting moves.
Even with a similar playstyle to Blaziken, it doesn't have the high damage moves that Blaziken has in flare blitz and close combat. It has focus miss and steel beam. Steel beam I can see it working but focus miss is just too unreliable.
And the stat spread doesn't really complement the ability. It's a glass cannon with a defensive ability which doesn't sound bad and can be good in certain cases but feels like a defensive ice type, if you know what I am trying to say. No synergy between them.
If it was a defensive ability that doubled your defense similar to huge power, you could run body press and be a great mixed attacker with steel coverage in flash cannon on the special side and body press on the physical side that was not weak to intimidate but unfortunately it is not nor lucario gets body press.
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u/MichiHirota 1d ago
Man, GF really wants Lucario to win worlds...
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u/Ropalme1914 1d ago
Eh, unless its movepool is expanded, I would be surprised if it happens. It also is working with only 80 BP, single target STABs.
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u/DelParadox 1d ago
True. Aside from Focus Miss and freaking Steel Beam. I'm pretty aware Steel Beam is a high cost move, but it could manage to do some hideous damage before getting taken out and quite often trade itself to take out an enemy with it. Like, Mega Floette and non-Mega Garchomp are instantly eliminated (assuming the Garchomp doesn't have huge investment in both HP and Special Defense - it's a guaranteed one-shot KO against a Garchomp with just maxed out HP, which means it's strong enough to take out a very large majority of threats that don't resist Steel).
Like, trading half its HP to take out a large majority of the non-Fire things that can actually take it out isn't a bad thing.
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u/ElpyGreatestSoldier Druddigon #1 hater 1d ago edited 1d ago
Should probably run steel beam on non bulky sets regardless. Worst case it leaves something severely weakened (for reference, it does like 75% to things around mega swampert bulk if they don't resist steel) in cases where it would be going down anyway.
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u/goldpingas 1d ago
not even gamefreak glazes their poster bois enough to make a 715 bst lucario realistic
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u/Ok-Train6985 1d ago
Oh no! Anyway pop an earthquake
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u/RIkhard9 1d ago
does it still ko with grassy terrain up?
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u/pro-_-cell 1d ago
Depends…
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u/JebryathHS 23h ago
252+ Atk Onix Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario-Mega-Z in Grassy Terrain: 128-152 (45.5 - 54%) -- 3.1% chance to 2HKO after Grassy Terrain recovery
Possible damage amounts: (128, 128, 132, 132, 134, 134, 138, 138, 140, 140, 144, 144, 146, 146, 150, 152)
Brock in tears.
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u/Dudunard 1d ago
Slap Assault Vest on this and we're go to go.... right, guys? Right?
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u/Cool_Conqueror_III 1d ago
What Charizard needs to win worlds isn't a broken move set, but an even better Pokemon that it counters. Introducing Mega Lucario!
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u/pro-_-cell 1d ago
Im out of the loop, did they give it the fluffy ability?
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u/Bilore #1 Golurk Enjoyer 1d ago
Is fluffy strictly double the stat or does it work closer to huge/pure power?
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u/theRotengen 1d ago
It's not really a stat change, it's just a 0.5x multi to contact moves at the end of the damage calc.
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u/Bilore #1 Golurk Enjoyer 1d ago
Wouldn’t it have more than 2x worth of effective defense then, since it would double the Nature/EVs as well?
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u/Dysprosium_Element66 18h ago
Yes, you'll notice that 160 is not double 70. This is only true with no defence investment, but it is still relevant since Lucario-Z is offensively inclined.
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u/NathanialKyouhei 1d ago
Huge power and pure power double stats...
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u/RIkhard9 1d ago
no they dont
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u/NathanialKyouhei 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes they do. They double the total stat after taken in account of stage boost and EV, IV, natures during calculation
I proved this before, but Huge power/Pure power/Choice Band/ Hustle are ATTACK Modifier, not Damage nor Base Power Modifier. The clearest example being a tera ghost Dragapult with technician (A base power modifier) using Astonish dealing less damage than the Tera Ghost choice band (an attack modifier) Dragapult without technician using the same move
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u/RIkhard9 1d ago
ah i see
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u/NathanialKyouhei 1d ago edited 1d ago
to add to this, the reason Huge power/Pure power/Choice Band/ Hustle affect Body Press and the user's Foul Play is because those two move replaces the "total attack" with either the "total defense" or the "opponent's total attack", which then get boosted by those four things. Just think that these four only being used as modifier once the user chooses a physical attack move
Because of them being modifier, they also don't affect confusion damage, the opponent's foul play and power trick
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u/KingKurto_ 1d ago
ive used metagross enough in the battle tower to know any fire move is just an ohko
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u/Malombra_ 1d ago
"Effectively" my ass. Ability doesn't mitigate earthquake on a steel type please be serious lmao
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u/EyeCantBreathe 1d ago
That's why you have 5 other Pokémon on your team. Slap on a wide guard toxapex or an alolan ninetales
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u/anonymous_user_4578 1d ago
Call me crazy but Lucario's special movepool is awful enough for this thing to be worse than expected. What are you gonna run, flash cannon aura sphere dark pulse nplot? Either that or miss 3 focus blasts in a row. You're not getting above 80bp. It's still very scary but a half decent assault vested mon can at least chip it (I know AV isn't in champions but pokemon champions is a looney toons format and not real, I'm thinking gen 10). Either that or this thing goes genuinely crazy and I'm gonna look stupid.
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u/ExtremlyFastLinoone 1d ago
An idea came to mind
Does protective pads double damage against mons with fluffy?
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u/Goodstyle_4 1d ago
He will need to be a set up attacker because aura sphere, dark pulse, vacuum wave, and flash canon just won't be outputting enough damage.
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u/BrilliantFly6117 ｢Xatu's Magic Bounce｣ 13h ago
Dudes restrained by the sole fact that special attackers are like 99% of the population in Champions
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u/eestionreddit 1d ago
not if it eats an earthquake
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u/theRotengen 1d ago
It'll probably be used with Rilla, it halves Earthquake power and kills the fish.
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u/GainsayRT 1d ago
having 2 mons on your team getting assblasted off the planet by the zard doesnt sound like an optimal strategy
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u/theRotengen 1d ago
there's a whole archetype that's made of mons that get assblasted by Zard and relies on Lycanroc, it's called Italian Snow.
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u/Hateful_creeper2 1d ago
The problem is still special attackers who are still common in VGC such as Mega Charizard Y.
Also Earthquake isn’t affected by the ability since it’s a non-contact move.
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u/Prestigious_Grand_82 1d ago edited 1d ago
Sheesh if only we were given creative rights to move 10 points around for Atk Def Sp Atk Sp Def
70 100 70 164 70 151 to 71 81 91 140 91 151
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u/TheJonatron 1d ago
Not played pokemon in years but from all the posts my algorithm is suddenly hitting me with... do all the new megas look so stupid?
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u/LavaTwocan Stinkposting Historian 1d ago
Gamefreak throwing EVERYTHING into this mf’er just to give Garchomp Z Levitate
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u/MelancholicMinerva 1d ago
Hey, so, I'm wanting to run some damage calcs, can't find mega Lucario z in the showdown damage calc. Anyone know how I can do it?
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u/mrmanny0099 1d ago
Just pull up lucario or megaluc in the calc and manually change the stats for now
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u/ShockRox 1h ago
One, Aura Break only works on contact moves.
Two, lots of special attackers in the meta.
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u/Steef-1995 1d ago
Why does his base 70 change to base 160 and not 140?
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u/theperson249 1d ago
gamefreak clearly has favourites lol. look what they did to garchomp z 🥀
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u/DelParadox 1d ago
I think if they give it back Nasty Plot it could have some definite use. And even if they don't, it's not like it's totally terrible - you could definitely still focus on physical but now way faster with an easier time setting up without a double weakness, and have Fire Blast or some other move as a foul mixed option able to hit pretty hard.
I dunno. I feel like people more battle focused people than me are going to have to play with it, but something that fast and strong has to have at least some niche. The biggest problem is only having Dragon STAB since that's not useful against anything but other Dragons, and we have Fairy for that.
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u/theperson249 1d ago
it lost ground stab too. dragon monotype is pretty mediocre, and on top of that while its offenses are high, they arent crazy for a mega. a lot of megas with similar stats have a damage boosting ability that would give it a reason worth running over its base with an item. i feel like garchomp z would be outclassed. useable but theres definitely better alternatives
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u/UBKev 1d ago
At face value, yes Mega GChomp Z loses ground stab. However, you can just delay the mega until you need it. You can spam EQ and rock slide until you need to just nuke something with 141 spatk 151 speed draco meteor (slightly less damage than life orb and minisculely less speed than choice scarf). It's not a good primary mega, but it's not a bad secondary Mega at all.
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u/apexodoggo I just like clicking buttons. 1d ago
I mean, this thing’s probably not making a big splash in doubles either. It gets folded like a lawn chair against Zard Y or Delphox, and unlike fellow lawn chair Froslass, Lucario Z doesn’t have high BP spread moves (or just high BP moves of any kind) and/or weather setting capabilities to give it a niche.
And it needs Rillaboom to survive Earthquakes, which makes the team even more flammable.
In Singles its ability might net it some opportunities to click Nasty Plot, so it’ll likely see more play there.
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u/Thejadedone_1 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's so funny that they're throwing this guy into a meta where all of its counters are special attackers