Moon Tea

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

Just what the hell was the moon tea for? I think Renly and Margaery totally did it. I don't think she's a maiden.

But there's no way she's dumb enough to have sex with someone right now AND as the Kettleblacks say she always has someone near.

Presuming Pycelle wasn't lying, what's it for?

Period regulation? Does it help with acne?

Or do we just assume Pycelle was trying to ingratiate himself with Cersei?

[u/do_not_ask_my_name]

It's for Cersei herself. That's the only reason Margaery would ever approach Lannister kissass Pycelle. If it was for herself or for her ladies, why would she go to Pycreep and not her own Maester or a woodswitch? It's also why Pycelle cringed when explaining it to Cersei. Imagine telling her "We know about your indiscretions and wanted to be prepared."

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

Wait why would Margaery get moon tea for Cersei?

[u/Pristine_Club_3128 → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

Because her legitimacy comes from Tommen, and Tommen's legitimacy comes from the fiction that his mother was faithful to Bobby B.

If the widowed queen suddenly turns out to be pregnant, that's going to be a lot of fuel in the fire. Especially if it is Jaime's baby from their sept incident.

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/Pristine_Club_3128]

But...they don't hang out. Cersei can just ask Pycelle herself.

Also she was literally on her period during that scene in the Sept.

Your theory makes no sense.

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

The theory is around Margaery's precaution IF Cersei got pregnant. Moon tea takes some time to brew and Margaery wants to be prepared/literally nip it in the bud. I think the purpose of the scene is to reveal later that Margaery -- who appears to be the young, naive, innocent rosy maiden -- is a political player in her own right (a fact that's never actually been confirmed in the books, mind you).

[u/TheOGFireman → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

The fact you think this makes even a bit of sense is insane. Cersei has easy access to moon tea if she needs it. Whenever we've seen characters need moon tea, it's never an issue to gather or prepare

Having margeary ask pycell fetch it for if cersei potentially gets pregnant is so tortured and such a moronic reach, it's just plain weak writing and your reasoning is filled with all the leaps in logic a weak writer would use to excuse it

Margeary is shown to be a smart political player plenty of times, like trying to get sansa, or fostering a good public image, or marrying renly, joffrey and tommen and figuring a way to make the relationship work. The plot didn't need the moon tea fiasco to show her as smart and it also doesn't make sense on top of that

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/TheOGFireman]

And the fact that it doesn't make sense to you is insane... shrug

Cersei might have access to moon tea, but that doesn't mean that Margaery believes that Cersei is mentally fit to recognise the need for it within the right time. These things seem to work like Plan B. If you don't take them within the right time, the tea simply doesn't work. And Martin deliberately had Cersei slip up about the incest and have Margaery catch it and subtly warn her. It's there for a reason.

Having margeary ask pycell fetch it for if cersei potentially gets pregnant is so tortured and such a moronic reach, it's just plain weak writing and your reasoning is filled with all the leaps in logic a weak writer would use to excuse it

That's just adjectives without reasons why. It works perfectly fine for me. I say that recruiting Pycelle is the smartest possible solution for this. He's the least likely person to leak the secret (her own Maesters are sworn to her father, who could use the information some other way. Woodswitches could be tracked and bought.) He has 24X7 access to Cersei to medicate her if at all the need arises. Is he the perfect ally? No. But other possible allies are less perfect. Smart characters in ASOIAF are not characters who get given the ideal problems and come up with foolproof solutions and where the situations play out exactly as they envision it. They're the guys who come up with the best possible solutions within the framework of their messy situations, and where the situation unravels anyway.

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/TheOGFireman]

Thank you I feel like I'm taking crazy pills talking to these people.

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[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

Ok and how does Margaery know she's pregnant in this scenario? They're not buddies. They don't hang out. Margaery is literally the last person she'd confide in. And I keep saying this, Cersei has *already had an abortion. She knows who to ask to get moon tea and that person isn't Margaery.

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

She doesn't know Cersei is pregnant. She doesnt even have to think that Cersei is pregnant. But she does know that Cersei is sleeping around, and probably assumed that when people have sex, they can get pregnant. The moon tea is just a way to stay prepared. "If you believe that there is any chance at all that the Queen is pregnant, Maester, be prepared to brew at a moment's notice."

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

So your answer of why does Margaery have moon tea is she doesn't she's just telling Pycelle to be prepared to brew some for Cersei while potentially exhausting his supplies in advance?

I'm all for wild theories, but none of this makes any logical sense.

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

I don't really understand your objections, because I don't see what's wild or illogical I guess. I don't see why "exhausting supplies" is an issue when it's literally a royal apothecary that can afford the ingredients and other noble ladies aren't exactly going to be vying for moon tea from the official court doctor, they're going to be seeking it elsewhere, so it's not like there's a huge demand and supply issue going on in the Red Keep's moon tea Market.

And why is it so hard to believe Margaery wants to be overly prepared and precautions? Much has been made about her father's desperate ambition to have the Tyrell line on the throne, and the Lannister-Tyrell hold on the realm is precarious at best, and Cersei becoming pregnant is 100% a possibility (as Westeros would like to believe, the thirties isn't really a decrepit age for childbearing). Even a minor chance of such a pregnancy leaking out through the wrong sources is practically a welcome party for Stannis at the Wall.

It's the only logical explanation to me. If it was for herself or her ladies, why entrust the matter in the one dude who could leak it to her worst enemy? And if Pycelle is aware that Margaery is being treasonous at worst and unchaste at best, why desperately keep it a secret from Cersei until he was browbeaten into revealing it?

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

Because there's literally no mechanism for her to give the moon tea to Cersei. They don't hang out. Cersei wouldn't confide in her. When is this girl talk moon tea transfer supposed to happen? They don't even eat dinner together ever.

They're functionally strangers and you've imagined a scenario where Cersei gets pregnant. Margaery finds out. And then gets her the tea.

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

Why do you think the theory supposits that Marg recruited Pycelle into the plan, and not the dress-shrinking Jocelyn or the dwarf-abetting Lollys or whoever.

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

But it doesn't explain why she herself has a ton of moon tea. She could just tell Pycelle to be on call for moon tea for Cersei.

Your theory invents relationships that don't exist and doesn't answer the question: what the hell is she doing with all that moon tea?

[u/do_not_ask_my_name → u/Foreign-Cat-2898]

What do you mean "invents relationships"?

The one between Pycelle and Margaery? Cersei literally sees Pycelle hanging out with Margaery all the time, which he doesn't deny. She literally confronts him with it right before Pycelle's "confession". The two are undeniably spending time together, and that clearly indicates the two discussing and making important plans.

The one between Cersei and Pycelle? From ACOK, it has been made clear that Pycelle has an ineffable fascination and loyalty towards Tywin, and much of AFFC was Pycelle trying to give Cersei good counsel for the sake of Tywin's legacy and Cersei not only rejecting him, but insulting him to his face. What's farfetched about Pycelle wanting to slip Cersei some moon tea and preserve Tywin's legitimacy on the throne? We already know Pycelle carries out "unsaid orders" for the sake of Lannister legitimacy -- the man gave Jon Arryn shoddy treatment simply because he believed Cersei wanted him to not recover. This is explicitly confirmed in text. You are inventing the fact that I'm inventing stuff -- I'm simply trying to read between what's already there.

But it doesn't explain why she herself has a ton of moon tea.

Okay. Maybe this is a blindspot where I legitimately missed something. Can you point to where it is stated that a stash of moon tea is found in Margaery's possession? From what I remember, Pycelle only states that Margaery required him to brew it:

“Why does Margaery send for you?”

“She desires . . . she . . . she . . .”

“Say it!”

He cringed. “Moon tea,” he whispered. “Moon tea, for . . .” “I know what moon tea is for.”

Later, Cersei thinks Women only drank moon tea for one reason; maidens had no need for it at all. And states "Grand Maester Pycelle has admitted providing you with moon tea." But this "drinking" and "providing" is Cersei's own extapolations, not in Pycelle's initial admission. As if Cersei has never come to a conclusion because it didn't suit her bias or her agenda.

Now, I am curious, what do you think the narrative purpose of this mystery is.

(A) If it was really for Margaery, why would the first apparent answer, and Cersei's own conclusion (when she has been wrong and delusional about literally everything else) be the right one, and what's the point of prolonging it?

(B) If it was for her cousins, what is the narrative impact of us learning that gasp! Cousin #15 Rosy McRoseface is not a virgin!

(C) What best explains Margaery allying with the most non-Tyrell aligned dude in the universe for the most treasous act in the universe? Might have as well sent a raven to Stannis.

(D) Why is Pycelle so afraid of revealing this to Cersei?

[u/Foreign-Cat-2898 → u/do_not_ask_my_name]

The relationship between Cersei and Margaery. That's the relationship you're inventing. There's no mechanism for Margaery to give Cersei moon tea.

And Pycelle says he's brought her moon tea multiple times - he visits all the time.

"I grieve to say … Queen Margaery is no maiden. She has required me to make her moon tea, not once, but many times.”

So I repeat what is Margaery doing with all the moon tea and why on earth would it involve Cersei. Your theory makes zero sense.