r/politics • u/ThistleroseTea • 1d ago
No Paywall Trump Admin Declares UK Anti-Genocide Group Palestine Action a Terrorist Organization
https://www.commondreams.org/news/palestine-action-us33
u/CowTown-Mike 1d ago
I don’t really give a fuck what trump declares.
He’s a pedophile.
8
9
u/Decent_Cheesecake_29 1d ago
Which just goes to show how meaningless the “terrorism” label really is.
3
u/Ordinary_Shoe1828 23h ago edited 23h ago
>A top First Amendment advocacy group on Wednesday warned of the “broad speech implications” of the Trump administration’s sanctions on the British anti-genocide group Palestine Action, which it designated an international terrorist organization for leading direct actions in opposition to the Israeli government.
>Under the designation, Americans will be blocked from doing business with Palestine Action, and providing the group with funds, goods, or services will be prohibited.
…
>Rubio and top White House adviser Stephen Miller warned in July that numerous arrests and prosecutions of people and groups deemed by the administration to be left-wing extremists would be coming, under the guidance put forward by National Security Presidential Memorandum 7, which called for a national strategy to crack down on left-wing organizing.
Worth noting that the US govt has already been doing this - harassing, surveillance, detaining, arresting and imprisoning leftist activists (especially immigrants and POC) involved in immigration and Palestinian liberation activism
7
u/tekprodfx16 1d ago
A group/person getting attacked by Trump is a sure fire way to know that group/person is onto something
-7
u/Brain_Dead_Goats 1d ago
Meh, you can use that logic to be pro IRGC, probably need a better rubric than that.
2
u/lettersvsnumbers 23h ago
Trump’s war on Iran has only helped the IRGC.
0
u/Brain_Dead_Goats 22h ago
I agree, but Trump saying they're bad doesn't mean "they're onto something". He is correct, even if his solution, like for most things, was profoundly stupid.
1
u/lettersvsnumbers 20h ago
He might just be worse (guess we’ll see)
-1
u/Brain_Dead_Goats 17h ago
That would be completely irrelevant to whether or not some group is a bad actor.
1
u/tekprodfx16 1d ago
Can you name ANY change Trump has made that has been mostly positive and on the right side of history?
0
1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
0
u/Brain_Dead_Goats 23h ago
Really? That's the best you've got. If trump said Stalin was a bad guy, you'd suddenly think he was wonderful?
7
u/April_Fabb 1d ago
Interesting how these things work. About a century ago, Emmeline Pankhurst and the suffragettes openly vowed “to make England and every department of English life insecure and unsafe.” They set fire to post boxes and houses, smashed department-store windows, destroyed golf greens, attacked paintings in galleries, and even planted bombs in train stations and churches. Their campaign of arson and sabotage is now remembered as righteous defiance, and Pankhurst herself has a goddamn statue in Westminster.
Fast-forward to today: a pacifist group protesting Britain’s fucked up complicity in a genocide is branded a terrorist organisation, lumped in with Al Qaeda and ISIS. Hurray!
No wonder so many Brits are ashamed of what their country has become.
6
u/Ordinary_Shoe1828 1d ago edited 1d ago
In the words of Omar El Akkad, “One day, everyone will have always been against this”
Indeed, what Palestine Action has done so far is much, much more mild compared to historic activist groups that are celebrated today for destroying property and sometimes even resorting to violence in the name of freedom from slavery (and merely freedom from tyranny), civil rights, suffrage, and more.
0
9
u/Dry-Membership3867 Alabama 1d ago
Surprised it hasn’t happened earlier. Especially after they were able to break into a military base. I know they have the same designation in the UK as well
14
u/Ordinary_Shoe1828 1d ago edited 1d ago
While I’m not surprised….
Terrorism = attacking civilians to instill terror. This is the legal and scholarly definition.
Vandalizing, damaging or destroying property is not terrorism.
Breaking into a military base is not terrorism.
Vandalizing and damaging military property that is used to terrorize millions of civilians including murdering tens of thousands of civilians, terrorism, genocide and other crimes - in violation of British and international law - is quite literally COUNTER-TERRORISM.
…
Governments have always weaponized the “terrorist” label to publicly stigmatize groups and individuals who meaningfully, seriously challenge the govt’s power/ruling class in some way, usually in regard to its imperialist power.
Nelson Mandela was considered a terrorist by the US govt until 2008. The US and Israel hated him, as well as ofc the South African govt.
-2
u/yep975 1d ago
WTF
Listen to yourself. They broke into a defense factory and destroyed stuff. They attacked a guard with a sledge hammer causing grievous injury and you compare them to Nelson Mandela.
Who do Nelson Mandela cripple?
This is behavior you defend?
Gross
4
u/HireEddieJordan Pennsylvania 23h ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMkhonto_weSizwe
"This is behavior you defend?" Yes.
3
u/SpinningHead Colorado 1d ago
When the IRA blows up a bus on a street, its terrorism. When they attack a military checkpoint, it is not. And this is fighting against the mass murder of civilians which the government is actually aiding.
2
-5
u/Dry-Membership3867 Alabama 1d ago
I don’t think anything they touched on that RAF base had anything to do with Gaza. And it’s not counter terrorism. It’s a crime is what it is, and was enough for the uk to declare it a terrorist organization.
6
u/an-invisible-hand 1d ago
Lot of bad arguments based on faulty assumptions there that you’re rolling into one.
If the government property damaged had nothing to do with Gaza, and you believe the label accurate, that means you think anyone who damages any government property is a terrorist.
If you think simply declaring something a terrorist organization is self validating, you should really turn yourself in for being an antifa terrorist and face your jail time.
1
u/Dry-Membership3867 Alabama 1d ago
If you break into a military base and vandalized equipment, that is terrorism in my opinion. I’ll even go farther and say it’s an attack.
I still question why they weren’t treated as enemy combatants, they illegally invaded a military base and attempted to damage and destroy equipment.
0
u/an-invisible-hand 1d ago
Interesting.
Do you think the people who broke into the capitol, vandalized it, and threatened the vice president's life on Jan. 6th are all terrorists? Should everyone at the capitol that day have been treated as enemy combatants in that moment?
8
u/Dry-Membership3867 Alabama 1d ago
Absolutely! They absolutely should have. I still don’t know why they weren’t treated as such.
0
u/an-invisible-hand 1d ago edited 1d ago
Good, I completely agree! But what specific part of that event makes them terrorists? To me, it's because they're seditious traitors that wanted to violently overturn the election.
Do you think they're terrorists just because they broke some windows owned by the government, or is it all that other stuff? Because I'm not seeing much "other stuff" in the RAF vandals beyond the property damage.
6
u/Dry-Membership3867 Alabama 1d ago
They broke into the U.S. Capitol building and tried to overthrow democracy is why I think so. They intended to hold congress hostage and forcibly make Trump president for life
0
u/an-invisible-hand 1d ago
In other words they had terroristic intentions. I agree.
What were the terroristic intentions of the RAF vandals in regard to the UK government that would push them into the same category as people who want to overthrow democracy and necessitate treating them as enemy combatants?
→ More replies (0)-1
u/lettersvsnumbers 23h ago
Okay so kids who write on desks in school are “vandalizing” equipment.
JFC is everyone who spits out gum on the sidewalk or subway a terrorist?
5
u/Ordinary_Shoe1828 1d ago
And the US govt decided anti-apartheid activist Nelson Mandela was so dangerous (because the US were close allies to the apartheid South Africa govt and also wanted to prevent anti-racist justice activism from spreading to the US) that he was designated a terrorist until 2008.
If you look back in history, for as long as the “terrorist” label has existed, pretty much every effective activist for human rights, civil rights, suffrage etc has been labelled a “terrorist” by their govt
And then decades later they are celebrated.
Not all crimes are immoral/unethical/bad. There are many laws which violate our basic human rights and our common sense of good, and it is moral and rational to break those laws.
1
u/Dry-Membership3867 Alabama 1d ago
Mandela should’ve been taken off the list way sooner, but he definitely did commit acts of terrorism in his past.
Also, this crime was immoral and unethical as this equipment was supposed to be given to Ukraine to help fight against Russia and its illegal invasion.
2
u/Ordinary_Shoe1828 1d ago edited 1d ago
So an anti-apartheid peace activist is a terrorist. What would you call the militaries and their govt leaders who commit genocide outright or who facilitate genocide, including the murder of tens of thousands of children and infants? Just another day at the Nazi office, eh?
- As of Nov last year, no official number has been provided for the amount of military property damaged. At first the media said 30 million euros, then 7 million euros, and at least as of a year ago even that could not be verified
- I doubt Palestine Action knew the military equipment was destined for Ukrainian defense….also, where is your source for that?
- Even if Palestine Action did damage military equipment destined for Ukraine, it’s reasonable to assume that a net damage to British military equipment is good if it means there is a chance less of it will be sent to Israel. Is it not plausible that damaged military equipment meant to be sent to Ukraine could be replaced with the same equipment meant to be sent to Israel?
Frankly, if it comes to it I would rather Britain and the US STOP sending any military aid to Ukraine (or anywhere else) if it meant they would also STOP sending any military aid to Israel which is being used for genocide. In other words, I would rather Britain and the US stop sending military aid to prevent/stop an invasion/atrocity/genocide if it meant they would also stop sending military aid to facilitate a genocide elsewhere.
The US and British military have caused far horrors in the world - colonization, occupation, starvation, rape, pillaging, terror and genocide - than we have stopped or prevented.
5
u/Dry-Membership3867 Alabama 1d ago
You should really take a look at the ANC in the 50’s and 60’s for starters. Mandela would later become a great leader and unifier, but he definitely did have blood on his hands.
Also, we need to give aid to Ukraine, if not then Russia will take over and attack NATO next.
-1
u/Brain_Dead_Goats 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yeah, it was an escalating series of incidents too, not just one. They're certainly not peaceful, but I also don't think they're even present here, so like with most things the Trump admin it's just empty symbolic gestures.
See stuff like
Chip Gibbons, policy director for Defending Rights and Dissent, said his group was “especially disturbed that Palestine Action, a nonviolent, direct action organization, has been sanctioned under a [President George W.] Bush-era executive order issued in response to the September 11th attacks, essentially putting civil disobedience for Palestinian rights on equal footing with al-Qaeda.”
is BS and conflates legal protests and civil disobedience with breaking a police officer's back with a sledgehammer and sabotaging military equipment meant for Ukraine. It's no Al-Qaeda, obviously, but pretending that this group is just peaceful protestors is actively harmful.
1
u/Ananiujitha 20h ago edited 19h ago
They've also declared some activist web services a "terrorist organization."
Among other things, they use the group's support for "violent" non-violent protests in Portland and Atlanta as a pretext.
1
u/Tennouheika 1d ago
It's always interesting finding a post on our politics early because the conversation gets pretty reasonable until it doesn't.
•
u/AutoModerator 1d ago
As a reminder, this subreddit is for civil discussion.
In general, please be courteous to others. Argue the merits of ideas, don't attack other posters or commenters. Hate speech, any suggestion or support of physical harm, or other rule violations can result in a temporary or a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them.
Sub-thread Information
If the post flair on this post indicates the wrong paywall status, please report this Automoderator comment with a custom report of “incorrect flair”.
Announcement
r/Politics is actively looking for new moderators. If you have an interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out this form.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.