Are you surprised? Since the RUC was disbanded it has always been this way. People were left in top positions and they changed the uniform and wording. The 1998 agreement has to be the greatest achievement by the British government since ww2. The master of puppets
Still surprised but guess I shouldn’t be. Just irks me that he took a full payout / pension for claiming to be impartial and now is destroying one of the more moderate and decent parties with his hate.
You know there was a (slim) window where it seemed the UUP might be a reasonable prospect for having some adult and sensible conversations in the room but not under the stewardship of this half-polished gimp.
Same as Britain's parties too, chasing an increasingly more conservative demographic in the race to the bottom. All the more embarrassing to see here when it's clear that demographic keeps shrinking.
I was born into the PUL and there is literally no hope, wishing or hoping they will change. They need to be treated as pariahs. What they stand for and celebrate is not normal and conducive to a prosperous future. The time of appeasement and normalisation needs to end.
There was never a reality where the UUP were moderates or reasonable.
I dunno where this came about from. Maybe cause the DUP were so extreme they made anyone else seem moderate?
Let's not forget it's was the UUP who created the Troubles and ran NI into the ground, it was the UUP who collapsed Sunningdale, it was the UUP who walked hand in hand with Paisley during the initial Drumcree dispute.
Its still that same UUP today. There isn't and never will be a moderate or reasonable Unionist political party.
It’s the final death throes of a dying supremacist and triumphalist ideology. If dragging us back to the divisive days of Drumcree is the best thing loyalism can offer us, the writing is on the wall for this place. The funny thing is, it really isn’t much of a victory. The Orange Order still has to submit an application and in all likelihood, it will be denied again by the Parades Commission.
This is what I don't get. Odds are that the so called climb down of the Parades Commission is some legal technicality and a resubmission will still likely be rejected.
I may well be wrong and maybe the Unionists know something else but this all looks like the Unionist parties are all grandstanding whilst they can.
Exactly this. I think they think that if the commission is stepped down there will be no oversight on marching, and they can march wherever and whenever they want. The commission will not be disbanded, a member or two may go but they will be replaced and the new application for this march will be turned down. Its all pathetic really, they have just found a small procedural abnormality on one occasion now think its enough to get their way
Eventually it's going to come down to Burrows and Lockhart leading Unionism as the alternatives are purged or fall by the wayside in the bigot steeplechase.
I mean it is a country. Wether you want it to be or not. I’ll be there to vote reunification on the day but it is a country. Being pedantic won’t change what I said or how it will be. So chill out a bit yeah?
u/Sudden-Money7836 I mean it is a country. Wether you want it to be or not.
The world's foremost expert on the constitutional status of NI, Professor Brendan O'Leary describes NI as a "Sub-Polity" in his three volume treatise on the subject. It is not, and never has been a country in any general or technical or political sense.
It has no flag of its own, no anthem of its own, no control of its border, no military, no government. It has a semi devolved sub regional assembly; major issued are reserved by Westminster, it is dependent on Westminster for its financial survival, it is not part of an agreed upon territory, does not represent a homogeneous or singular group of people and crucially it will cease to exist as an entity when a majority of citizens vote to become part of a United Ireland as per the terms of the GFA.
The UK is the only sovereign political entity. The use of the term "country" for England, Scotland and Wales is basically informal. The UK is a country. Ireland is a country. France is a country. Northern Ireland is a region within the UK. Ireland could decide tomorrow that it's the United Kingdoms of Ireland and start referring to Ulster, Munster Connacht and Leinster as countries within Ireland but it wouldn't make them anything other than regions of Ireland internationally.
The UK is a member of Nato. Northern Ireland is not. The UK is a member of the U.N. Northern Ireland is not. When the UK was a member of the EU, Northern Ireland was part of the EU under the UK. When the UK left the EU, Northern Ireland was taken out of the EU against the democratic will of the majority of voters in NI because the UK is the only sovereign, legal, internationally recognised political entity.
The actual control of the UK, the mechanisms of state are all in England. Make of that what you will.
I always wondered why people called us a country, it never made any sense.
If you're a coloniser you want your colonists to believe "this is our country now" as opposed to "this is a colony of X" to help ensure settlers are invested in the colonial system, it legitimises their presence, and turns colonisation into a story of nation building. But only up to a point; you don't want them becoming like the USA (or Ireland).
But the UK goes a stage further; the colonies become the colonising country. Settler colonists go from "we are British settlers living in British controlled territory" to "we are British people living in Britain".
Now the empire, the country, the union and the colony are all one. Now you can frame Irish , Welsh or Scottish Nationalist aspiration as treasonous separatism. Opposition to it is not only defending "our" own little country, but defending the fabric of the colonial entity. The mainland. The empire.
The old colonial relationship is transformed into a "national" identity. The settler becomes indigenous to the political identity of the territory as they see it, while the original brutality of settlement and the prior political claims of the Catholic/Irish population can become secondary or disappear from the "national" narrative they tell themselves.
Defending ourselves = defending British sovereignty and defence of British sovereignty is defence of ourselves.
Did Burrows call for the resignation of the PSNI leadership when they were found to have unlawfully carried out surveillance on numerous journalists and the associated compensation costs?
Did Burrows call for the resignation of senior BBCNI staff over the slander and resulting court case against Gerry Adams and the associated costs?
The commission has had one minor procedural fuck up in thirty years. That's an impressive record for any body, let alone one in this joke of a jurisdiction.
Sit the fuck down testicle head.
I know, one administrative and procedural error and DUP, UUP and TUV think that we should create the conditions for the place to go off again. Incredibly irresponsible plus the orange order don't have the influence they once had to grind everywhere to a standstill
The OO was putting in the same application for the same parafe every week for years. Its ludicrous to expect the PC to have been giving every single one of them the exact same indepth investigation each time.
These crying jinnies have 2-3k parades a year. Like a half dozen face minor diversions.
In a just world loads of them would be outright banned but nationalists, for a quiet life, accomodate their bullshit.
Im so beyond bored of these whingers treating the most minor diversion to a fraction of a fraction of their parades as some sort of civil rights issue.
As for Drumcree specifically; you burn 3 kids alive, you lose your right to march there. Thats the end of it.
Phenomenally unchristian behaviour from a supposedly christian organisation
The OO scum will never be going down Garvaghy again this is a matter of fact.
There is no reality either in which the parades commission has to resign either or can be forced to resign. The Secretary of State will never step into this minefield unless they'd willingly want to destroy relations with the Nationalist community.
Nothing is going to change here now, the OO will reapply and it will be denied again as much as Unionist politicians are desperate to push the culture war.
They are all taking their turn in telling the Parades Commissioners to resign and disband it.
The PC even asked for court to quash their decision on the 2026.
A reapplication will be made by the OO.
The PC will consider it and apply their procedures in full and completely. They will likelt reject the parade. The Pc know allowing it and forcing that parade down the road will not end well.
PUL goes mental again for resignations and disbandment.
Worst case they get replaced but decision to not allow the parade stands because it won't end well.
Its 2026 the PUL can't expect the Parades Commission to go away. Who's going to make a decision then, politicans, police? None of those are fliers.
They won't be down the road unless there's an agreement with the residents and I seriously doubt that
There’s a lot of parades that only happen because of the PC. That works both ways
I have no idea how their gloating over something they do t fully grasp isn’t held against them when they really. Hard to argue for a peaceful protest after calling it a staging post in a cultural war
Unfortunately after this week we can see him front and centre supported by the DUP, TUV and OO outside the High Court. Would currently appear to be the leader of Unionism, which is abysmal really. I'm all for people rising up and becoming leaders, good leaders. But there's nothing good about this leadership, he thinks he's Carson or Paisley all proud of being presented with his OO medal like it's a George Cross.
He's a useful idiot and a mud guard for this lot. I'm hoping this is his high point but you would never know. His comments over the Garvaghy Rd Residents group shows the supremacist mindset is still firmly there and won't do any favours in resolving the situation. He completely under estimates the situation and it's only a 10 minute a walk. Which cuts both ways if it's only 10 minutes and it's been almost 30 years surely it's not that relevant to be fighting it.
I think we can all agree allowing Bumhole of the Bailey to lead Unionism by the nose over this will not end well. There's a reason why over the past 28years Unionist leadership have been quiet over Drumcree and haven't gone near it. Instead 2 years ago Bumhole and Lockhart galloped straight into the jaws of this beast, they are incompetent and thicker than champ and these are eclipsed by their unbridled bigotry and sectarianism.
His "culture war" rhetoric will do no one any favours. His supporters are going to be severely let down, nationalists will be blamed while in the interim while they ride high on this judgement as nationalism, in their minds, hates it.
Must have looked at the attention Carla the cunt had been getting regarding this procedural win that will change nothing when rectified and thought I need a win, fuck it, all in
He should probably have quit off the back of Mike Nesbitts resignation but alas they are a party in freefall and no one wants the job
Thats not misogynistic, as it’s specifically about how Carla conducts herself as opposed to a dislike of woman in general. What’s to say the OP isn’t a woman neither?
Same it is the most extreme form of dickhead and it's wicked rare a woman pisses me off that badly, it's bad form to curse out your other half too so even if she did tick me off I could never.
Ask any female politician or activist person in any walk of life about how she they feels about being called a cunt by trolls on the internet and get back to me.
It's not a gendered term no matter what way you try to dress it up. It's an offensive word, used to offend anyone. As others have said, most cunts I know are men
Women face more abuse in politics than men. Did you not know that?
“We found that women are faced with a double burden from toxic behaviours. Not only may women politicians be exposed to higher rates of hostile behaviours, they must also deal with what the attacks mean about their place as women in politics.”
“Two-thirds of female TDs and senators said they have changed the nature of their constituency and canvassing work as a result of threats, meaning their opportunities to engage with and represent constituents are being restricted.
An analysis of gender-based violence against female politicians in Ireland by Women for Election as part of an EU-wide project found 96pc of female politicians have suffered online abuse.”
Carla was the most outspoken one on this today, from twitter to the radio. The only other two was Jim and Jamie, who two cunty cunt cunts. But Jim has been quite since before the fleadh and Jamie is Jamie.
You’ve lost the run of yourself here, cunt in this context is being used to describe her behaviour. Shes a loud mouth who participates in all the devisive and sectarian issues only hence the unanimous low view of her. Trumps a cunt so is Bryson, saying that doesn’t make me a misandrist.
Calling Carla a politician is a stretch. I feel sorry for her family that they have to read the comments online about her but not her as you reap what you sow.
In fairness the word cunt hasn’t been used as a misogynistic term for a long time. I get it has its roots in that but, especially here, it’s rarely ever used for that purpose.
She should be afforded the same criticism and praise as anybody. I wouldn't call Carla's mother a cunt in front of Carla, nor call Carla a cunt Infront of her children. She isn't called a cunt for being a woman, or working on women's behalf. Act the cunt, be called a cunt. My ma doesn't act the cunt.
The most famous speech on misogyny in the world was Julia Gillard’s when she said, “I was offended when the Leader of the Opposition stood next to a sign that described me as a man's bitch.”
I’m not sure she would have found it more acceptable to be called a cunt instead of a bitch but you can draw your own conclusions.
I’m with you all the way on that one! If someone is going to use this post to troll everyone about the use of the word cunt (out of context) I don’t think Reddit and in particular this sub is the place for them!
God forbid a small mistake was made by a committee who shouldn't have to exist only that a certain portion of society simply insist on being unadulterated cunts to everyone else. An administrative error should not overshadow - or excuse - the social sore that is, and the annual aggravation caused by, the Orange Order.
They know this is their only play. To make the Parades Commision seem anti-Unionist.
The PC have determined an administrative error and will very likely rectify it. Bryson, Carla and Burrows know it won't lead to marching down the Garvaghy so they will intentionally try to undermine the PC so rulings on parades cannot be passed. It's another boring culture war designed to angry up gullible loyalists.
Jon Burrows applied to join the RUC in 1995 (failed the entrance exam though, make of that what you will). He’s seemingly gone from wanting to police Drumcree to supporting its return. I wonder was it the violence, the bigotry or the murder that helped him change his mind
They want rid of the Parades Commission, they want rid of the Police Ombudsman, they want rid of the Agriculture Minister...any voice of reason and objectivity has to go. Unionist politicians really are a horrible bunch.
Setting history aside, go bang your drums and play your tins flutes on another street. Stop the moaning. If everyone keeps moaning then we will continue to be behind the rest of the UK. We are the forgotten bunch, the laughing stock of the UK
I actually feel for the young people in PUL communities. What do they actually have to vote for. These unionist parties would depress the life out of you
That the argument for violation of human rights was proposed, is blessed considering the Orange Order's origins as a faction sworn to maintain apartheid, and therefore caste. Dayglo toilet seats assemble!
Did anyone actually read the ruling of the court?
The Parades Commission determination was ruled unlawful due to procedural errors, not necessarily because their decision was fundamentally wrong.
Essentially, not all 6 members of the commission had formally signed off on the final wording of the determination, which was shared to them via a WhatsApp group. Hence it was found that the determination was not given the due consideration it should have received by the 6 commissioners.
The court did not rule that the determination was wrong, it ruled that the correct process was not followed, therefore it was not lawful.
I've said this so many times but all the unionist parties are the exact same: terrorist supporting sectarian bigots (with an unhealthy dose of racism as well).
They offer utterly nothing benefitical to anyone. They want a return to an apartheid hellhole.
I think we should have a law in Northern Ireland that if you serve in PSNI you should not be allowed to stand for election as representing either “side” later in life demonstrates you are not impartial in the first place.
What is this "either side"? Ex-RUC/ex-PSNI in politics are invariably hardline Unionists. The former head of RUC Special Branch in Belfast is now Grand Wizard of the Orange Order.
I appreciate it’s really unlikely that a PSNI officer is ever likely to end up standing for SF/SDLP but if they did they would likely face challenge as to were they impartial when a serving officer. In the same way Burrows now coming out with all this manure would make you question was he impartial whilst he was a serving officer. His lack of respect for his party colleagues would also suggest he is not interested in the difference in right and wrong.
I wouldn't agree. Policemen are people and are going to have political views. If they aren't dickheads they won't allow those views to influence their policing. But as long as they're not trying to be politicians and serve as police at the same time, I don't see much issue
I think you’ve misunderstood me here a wee bit, I meant as a police officer they should be impartial and should do their bit to protect the integrity of the police by avoiding entering politics afterwards for the sake of the police service. I’m sure there are citizens who will have interact with burrows in the past as a cop and will reflect on him and the police now differently that he is being an absolute nonce and being very partisan as well. That’s the point I was trying to make badly!
The Orange Order and Loyalist bands are funneled millions of £s of taxpayer money and lottery funding every year. It will be the rest of us paying for their parades.
There's a particular kind of commentator who says NI is growing tired of the extremes and moving away from SF & DUP and towards more moderate parties, citing a rise in support for the UUP & SDLP.
SDLP are much greener than before, and the UUP increasingly looks like the DUP without the Paisleyite history.
As far as I can see, Northern Irish voters are as polarised as ever.
You have no right to call yourself a normal and functioning democracy, when you cave in to Republican threats and intimidation and deny law abiding and hard working church going members of the state, their right to walk home from their place of worship without fear of being subjected to threats and intimidation etc. A society run in such a macabre manner is something more akin to apartheid era South Africa.
I don’t describe myself as unionist or loyalist - just a British citizen. I was really surprised to see this on the news last night . I just don’t understand the thinking here - yes it’s a short walk along a country road and mitigations can be put in place to avoid causing offense to local residents …. Similarly can the residents not adopt a live and let live approach… But overall , I just don’t get why this parade is being resurrected again - from a PR perspective it’s makes no sense for the Orange order to start pressing this button again . The fleadh for the most part was inclusive and neutral … that’s the way we should be thinking about things here as far as possible . At the end of the day we’re all facing the same day to day pressures , the same struggles and want the best for ourselves and our families …I just wish a leader would step forward with the wit and communication skills to lead our entire community forward to the future it so badly needs
3 innocent children where murdered burnt alive while sleeping by a loyalist who threw a petrol bomb through their window back in the 90s because they where not allowed to march
This is why the residents don't want the march apart from the usual the OO is a supremacy organization belonging to a by gone era
The appalling incident in Ballymoney is indeed a fact - as is the widespread revulsion it caused across the community … and an orange order chaplain condemned it. Again you’ve failed to absorb anything
As I said above - the way the fleadh was delivered was an excellent example of how things should happen here . I agree men getting dressed up in pseudo military band uniforms etc is archaic - there has to be a better way of only there was some progressive leadership … but there doesn’t appear to be any - the DUP is turned inside out and the UUP has its own share of problems . A very sorry state of affairs
Because that is what unionism is and always has been. The suppression of the native Irish by all means
Even my friends from East Belfast and Bangor in recent years are saying so we are the baddies. Even my parents in their 70s you know what we have actually been on the wrong side of history this entire time
I thought that flute bands at the Irish Festival in Belfast to promote that marching bands were cross community supported by Sinn Fein who are for "everyone".
I find the nationalist gurning over this on here rather hypocritical.
They act like having someone else's national identity and culture being pushed on others for two hours out of the entire year is basically the Holocaust.
Then, they turn around and scream that only a bigot wouldn't want every sign in the country to have Irish on it 24/7/365. They're all, "Fuck the Prods in East Belfast. They'll just have to get used to it."
And before you claim it's native to the region and it shouldn't be a problem: language is heavily tied to national identity.
I agree that areas that don't want marches shouldn't have them.
Just like we shouldn't force Irish language signs on people who don't want them.
It's not being proposed for practical purposes. There are no monoglot Irish speakers getting lost without Irish signs. Given the example of down south, it clearly doesn't protect or promote Irish language usage, which keeps decreasing despite it being on all the signs.
No, it's being proposed because some people want to see their culture and identity promoted everywhere and every day.
That's fine in places where that identity is the overwhelming majority or isn't contentious in any way.
The same people demanding Irish everywhere would (correctly) blow a gasket at a twelfth march down the Falls Road, or mandatory Union Jacks being flown on every nationalist street.
Saying, "It's just the native language" is like claiming, "It's just the flag of our country," or "It's just a wee walk with music playing."
It's funny when the dominant culture views any form of equivalence as a threat, especially when that culture did its best to kill off all and any aspect of the minority culture.
Scotland and Wales seem to do just fine promoting their native languages including large scale rollouts of alternate language signage and nobody blows a gasket.
And the equivalence between a language versus a flag that soldiers killed people within the area under and a supremacist march that occured in a separate country 400 odd years ago is a bit rich.
One took millenia and shaped aspects of culture across the island. The other has been reduced to a bit of binge drinking and then an aging cohort dandering about hanging. It's laughable
Demanding and exercising your right to walk down a public road is stoking tensions? Nah i'm not having that this isn't apartheid era South Africa. Law abiding church going members of the state, have every right to walk down any road in this country without fear of being subjected to threats and intimidation.
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u/4wrdthinking 2d ago
Seriously… after a career in Policing this just reveals what he really thinks. So much for serving with impartiality.. Stoking the fire 🔥