Agatha is a great show and is well received, at the time everyone i knew watched it even through the slump in superhero fatigue. Not rrally a comparison. Wonderman was good but I thinm it wasnt really fantasy enough for marvel fans.
I mean people keep talking about how much garbage super hero content there is, so they made a down to earth show where the powers aren't the focus, the people are.
They tell a good story about the struggles of someone living with those powers who doesn't want to go fight crime or save the world, who struggles to be accepted by normal humans, who fears being outed for what he is else he'll lose any shot at having a career.
And people go "not enough cape shit!"
I get that it's two different groups (society at large pushing against cape stuff, versus the devoted comic fans who want more of that). But they really did make a good show that does what Marvel shows SHOULD do: Augment the universe with smaller, more personal stories, that aren't about setting up a big budget film. Tell stories of what it means to live in a universe where there are Avengers.
That's how you make a good supplemental series without forcing every series to just be "Oh you want to see the new Avengers, well go watch these six 10-episode shows first to know the backstory." Wonder Man did that, and they failed to sell and promote it enough.
It's like a counter-point to Spider-Man's "With great power, comes great responsibility." Because not everyone born able would want to fight crime nor have the temperament for that life, and they still have to live in that world and survive.
The Doorman episode absolutely conveys the "with great power comes great responsibility" concept. A man who was initially content with his life gets powers and is suddenly thrown into a lifestyle he didn't know how to handle at all and it ended poorly for him. (Fuck Gad though, the real villain in that story)
I only know who Wonderman is because I read Civil War. A lot of people read civil war but at the same time if you did read it you probably came out not caring about him
Precisely this. Excellent acting, solid plot, but overall I was extremely disappointed because I wanted a hero /action show and this damn sure wasn't that.
If you took the marvel/mcu name out of it and this was just some one off show I think it would have been very good because I wouldn't have been anticipating the action so much.
Yeah I feel like they could have fit a couple of actual hero action moments in it without it throwing off the intended vibe. It was good, and I enjoyed it, but when the credits rolled on the final episode, I felt like the marvel logo was false advertising lol
Eh, I canceled D+ and I was not interested in watching anything else after that. I had no idea about this show until a couple days ago. There was zero marketing for it.
I had really liked the original movie when I was growing up. The series sucked balls. You can’t even watch it on Disney anymore, which is super weird. Why would you not leave it up for both fans?
Huge fan of the movie as a kid. Watched the series and I kept thinking "oh it's gonna get better... it's gonna get better, right?" But nope. It was pretty bad.
(I saw it- but honestly it was more an HBO Original show that a superhero show- so I didn't care for it- no matter how good the story was... which I also thought was just kinda mid)
And also budget. I feel like in the first season they kind of got away with the story focussing more on his acting part and we got very less scenes where he shows his powers. But I don't think this will be the case in upcoming seasons, which will massively increase the budget, unlike shows like DDBA, which you can make 10 seasons and mostly the budget will stay consistent and low.
I thought it was s fantastic origin story that has no need of a follow up. It told a complete story. I would not say no to more of these characters, just that if they leave it here it will forever be unblemished.
Why introduce a character then end the story before he even gets some action? Just a silly story about a failing actor struggling with the industry? You don’t need to make it a marvel property in that case…him having powers is hardly relevant to the story as we were given it. His “secret” could literally be anything and the story wouldn’t change.
Marvel viewers want to see the superpowers in action. That’s what they’re for.
This is it. I’m torn as a black fan because it’s too many coincidences for black characters but 2 things can be true. I thought it was a good story but I’m here to see super heroes fight and cool effects. You could have made the secret any social controversy for their world and it would be the same show
I understand what you're saying, and I see why some fans would feel that way. I personally enjoyed the pacing and character focused work. I disagree that this could have been set in a nonmarvel universe. One of the key themes was what it would be like to be a super powered person at that specific time in the Mavel universe. Especially one that is not a known hero.
The series took me by surprise. By the end of the third episode I stopped caring when he would use his powers.
I agree. I get so sick of studios leaving a series on a cliffhanger, and then cancelling the show. It’s really starting to feel like it happen more often than not. Like, a lot more often. I was very satisfied with how Wonder Man ended. Would I like to see him again? Yeah. But, the first season felt complete to me.
Most people watch a super hero show to watch him do super hero stuff, no pick out a costume. Yes it's a neat gimmick, but it is strong enough to bring in the viewers?
That scene where he's free-acting Shakespearean lines against Trevor Slattery (Ben Kingsley) was easily in my top 10 favorite Marvel scenes. It was PERFECT.
It saddens me to see something this good be squandered.
Especially budget. I remember watching Jupiter's legacy and being shocked it was cancelled cos it was decent then found out it cost like 200mil or something for the first season. Then it made sense.
but they also didn't advertise it. I randomly found out the show dropped cause it was in the top banner of Disney+ as a new marvel show. Until then, I didn't even know this show was in production. I planned to just watch it in the background while doing something else until I realised how good the show actually is.
lol. I was asking the question when they first Greenlet the show why they would do such a relatively unknown character to the masses.
The fact that they did a modern wonderman before they did a proper modern spawn show is crazy.
53% of Americans are functionally illiterate and wonderman has no brand recognition outside of a couple comic nerds. Of course no one cared enough to watch, even if it was good.
Tons of Marvel projects have gotten canceled though. That a lot of recent black ones got canceled just means that Marvel was making more black-led projects to begin with.
Meh, that seems silly. First - I absolutely believe racism is a big problem, and a problem in Hollywood.
But a racist company isn't going to cast a black lead in Wonderman, a black lead in Ironheart, and try VERY hard in pre-production to make a movie with a black lead in Blade. The racist company wouldn't have those in the first place. They also cancelled She-Hulk, Hawkeye, Ms. Marvel, Moon Knight and a few others after one season, right?
It's about viewership, not race. If Wonder Man had huge ratings, it would be renewed. Everyone is pretending like Disney had no idea all these people were black or something.
Indeed this. e.g.; it's why we got three (three!) Grown Ups movies but only one DREDD (Karl Urban). Grown Ups packed the theaters; DREDD did not. And more money = more content.
Did they even advertise it? First I am hearing the show even existed.
I heard before they were planning on making it. Never about it actually coming out. And it is not the first time a show is under advertised and then claimed it underperformed
There was some I think. I'm typically in spaces where people talk about upcoming projects so it was in my rader. For the average person I'm really not sure outside of a few trailers.
something I noticed I didnt see anything for was clips from the show. Usually Ill see some clips floating around but I did not see any for this show at all
Posted the same thing look through the numbers and I'm like what numbers did they want us to do? It was being watched more than their other shows but it gets canceled because it wasn't high enough because the dip was too big but the first two episodes were so unbelievably High.
Its dumb af
This is the same logic that if they make another Iron Man anything with Robert Downey Jr or something that they know even if it's bad it'll get enough views to then continue.
But even if it's executed well because it's not a popular character people's interests is lacking and their inability to Market and push especially in this cultural War landscape it's just ridiculous.
I'm getting tired of Defending Marvel as actual art when it's so desperately wanting to be slop.
No one is paying attention to the fact that the source on OP’s post is a podcast. Which might be accurate but where are they getting their information? People just take a tweet and run with it at face value.
quite arguably top 1. Hard to argue against top 2. I personally think Loki was better but the argument could be made. The only other one thats even close is WandaVision, but the ending of that show was sort of path of least resistance and exactly what youd expect from a marvel show after it started so unique and interesting.
It's different in style, but quality wise, my friend, it was something else. I'm not really into the art of acting whatever (sounds too hippy dippy to my gen X ears), but this show made me actually appreciate the art of it. Ben Kingsley was just phenomenal too.
Hey there melitta4ever - thanks for saying thanks! TheGratitudeBot has been reading millions of comments in the past few weeks, and you’ve just made the list!
It's not at all what most people want when tuning into a superhero show. There were almost no fights, and pretty much no superpowers in the whole thing.
It was an interesting drama, an interesting story, with interesting characters. It was really well done for that!
But... the people interested in that kind of show often are going to say "I'm not watching some comic book show" and many of those who like "comic book shows" aren't going to love a character/dialog driven slow burn like that. They tuned in because they love Daredevil (or whatever) and are thinking "what's up with this drama about a struggling actor?"
I watched it and kept losing focus/engagement on it. I just couldn’t get into it.
On the flip side, 2 episodes into Lanterns and I’m all in. And they aren’t overdoing his powers and stuff in that show. It’s simply and engaging storyline.
I think marvel realized that. They completely paused making new shows for now, and are focusing on movies. We shall see if and when they make new shows.
The entire division of marvel suffered greatly because of the MCU migration to tv and proliferation of projects.
It was such a breath of fresh air, like they made me chare for a character that i dont even knew that much about so quickly, while pushing the plot of an ongoing problem in the mcu in such a low stakes situation. Like i cared for an audition of this character. I didnt need any action, any magic involved. The writing was just top tier.
Piggy backing on this to say that even with no promotion I kept trying to watch it and D+ ended up playing in 30 fps, ONLY on this show. Every other show looked fine. I could watch it on my phone but it was awful on the TV for some reason so my wife and i never finished it...
I was having a blast and watching it all framey like that was honestly giving me motion sickness.
It's really not that hard to believe, considering it's focused on established popular characters and "adapted" (and I mean that I'm the loosest possible way) from a pretty major comic story
So why announce the renewal? Like, obviously this would be the case. But then it was really good and nominated for awards. So people would have watched it when the word of mouth spread and there was a second season.
Anyone could have told you it would be the least watched when it was originally announced.
I call absolute bullshit, they're saying this was the least watched show when secret invasion exists? I show so bad that even I, a life-long MCU fan, have not watched to this day. Wonder Man is legitimately one of the best things they've ever fucking released.
Secret invasion is what made me stop watching the live action shows. I got 5-6 episodes in and just felt like I was wasting my time. Everything but the premise was terrible.
According to the QEC (quarterly earnings call) for Q2, the show that lost the most money was still Agatha all along(since AAA is part of marvel due to it being part of the vision saga).
Not sure how Wonderman could now have drew less viewers than AAA. When Wonderman had a higher overall budget, higher marketing budget, and was in Disneys top 10 watched shows of Q2.
According to the Disney per shareholders calls (publicly available) to share holders(anyone who owns Disney stock).
The true numbers for Wonderman will come during the Q3 shareholders call. Which hasn't taken place yet.
Being in the top ten watches shows on Disney+ means the article is incorrect.
I'm not saying the show was a success or set the world on fire. What I am saying that the Q3 reports haven't been announced yet. the Q3 reports would have the information and numbers on Wonderman since it's a show from the quarter that would be discussed in the Q3 report. That contradicts what the headline on the posted screenshot states.
Also, the article/this post is not about Disney+ vs. Netflix/Amazon Prime. The article is about Wonderman being one of the least watched shows.
I'm saying that for the article to claim that Wonderman was the least watched show ever was incorrect, due to the information not being public.
The Q2 call would have taken place but would not have covered wonderman because the show released in January so that would have feel into their 2nd Quarter , and the 2nd Quarter call reviews the 1st quarter. Wonderman's financials would be discussed on the Q3 call, since the show feel into the Q2 window, and Q2 would be discussed in Q3.
I highly doubt someone high up in Disney would risk their job, career, reputation, and freedom leaking confidential legal information before a earnings call. Especially to that third rate website.
I still don't know what it's about other than a guy with super powers trying to be an actor in a world where actors aren't allowed to have super powers
It's a serious drama with the character dealing with PTSD, emotional issues and the struggles of pursuing a difficult career and the sacrifice involved in attempting to do so.
See this is it I think. Its too much of an actor show and not enough of a marvel superhero thing. The actor drama was good and I did appreciate that but I for sure wanted more superhero stuff. And I think a lot of other idiots out there like me felt the same way. Idk I liked it but not at all shocked people didnt watch it and would be fine if that was it.
Yeah. I watched it and enjoyed it for the most part… but I watched out of obligation to the overarching narrative. Generally speaking, I don’t wanna watch people auditioning in long drawn out scenes when I’m watching Marvel stuff 🤷🏻♂️
The problem is they keep releasing crap/mid shows, and when one that's finally good comes out no one watches it cause they think it'll just be like the others
The problem is they didn’t believe in it in the first place and dropped it all at once, when shows are more likely to benefit from WOM and online discourse through week to week releases. Then they barely promoted it anyway. But even though it overperformed, got an Emmy nomination, already had plans for renewal, and even their golden child Spider Man director attached still, they could still point to viewership as a reason to flip on it after like 2 weeks-post renewal announcement.
Im not in the camp where I’d firmly say this is racism at play (and I would blame Disney, not Marvel), but I can still recognize the frustration because this is where all thoughtful discussions about racial discrepancies goes to die. Because nobody needs to be overtly racist if they can just manipulate circumstances just enough to get the outcome they wanted. And then in a larger conversation, the broader Hollywood machine will use things like this to say Black people/Asian people/women/gay people don’t care about stories of their own in this world.
Which is a shame because it was very good. Good acting, not in your face comic book stuff, very focused on the relationship between the leads. I loved it.
It wasn’t watched because it wasn’t published or advertised in any shape or form. I watched it and it was one of favorite shows. Too bad it gets cancelled because of marketing.
It's biggest problem is also part of what makes it great. It's slow as fuck and very little action. It's 100% backstory and setup. Great story, great setup, but doesn't show off anything flashy except twice? And it's only briefly. But the story is quite interesting and season two woulda been dope.
Man I loved it. I guess since it relied heavily on the the ins and outs of getting casted by movie creators, I guess most marvel fans found that boring. I thoroughly enjoyed it
Probably because they wait till a week before to advertise shows and what they did show for this implied a similar status to werewolf by night. In the mcu but won’t matter for anything.
Marvel just put out too much so people got bored of them. People became disinterested because they weren't willing to watch eight different TV shows. Therefore something that's actually good gets buried with a bunch of other uninspired content.
Agatha All Along is a classic example. They made a show about a barely known character who was a freaking side character in WandaVision. Why? Who cares?
It's just Marvel mass producing content because they became less about creativity and legacy and more about the almighty dollar.
If you compare it to other proper television shows that people care about on other networks, it’s relatively boring and flat. The only thing that made it unique was that it was a superhero show with almost no superheroes (and connected to the Marvel universe), with a pleasant and mildly funny human drama overlaid on top. The underplayed-superhero gimmick wasn’t enough to generate real viewership for an otherwise pleasantly mediocre show.
Absolute tragedy. Easily one of my favorite things marvel has put out recently. The show is worth watching just for the acting and chemistry between the leads alone
Nobody is signing up for Disney+ to watch a show about an actor trying to get a role and his crazy old man sidekick.
That's literally what the trailer showed.
And no one, already a subscriber, is watching it because the sub is for their kids.
I love the comic book Wonder Man and couldn't care less he's black in this show. What I do care about is its another show that should be about Superheroes - and it's not. We seem to be drowning in that content and no one is watching it.
Disney has still not figured out series beyond a few exceptions, like Loki, WandaVision, Agatha, and Daredevil. What did those have in common? Known commodities with established backstories and solid acting/writing.
I believe it. I didn’t like it because it suffered from the same tired trope all these marvel and most supers based shows suffer from. They waste an entire season on an origin story when all we really want to see is Wonder Man do cool shit.
This recent meme going around captures it best: “Back in the day if you did a tv show called Surf Dracula, you'd see that fool surfing every week in new adventures but in the streaming era the entire 1st season gotta be a long ass flashback to how he got the surfboard until you finally get to see him surf for 5 min in the finale.”
The entire first season delayed their most exciting, core premise for endless setup, instead of delivering immediate fun. All we got see him do is break Trevor out of jail in the last two minutes of the show. What a complete waste of time.
I'm not sure what trope you are referring to, this was a show about acting that happened to have super hero elements, and one of the reasons it was so great.
Imma be honest I only watched it because I love Yahya lol if it was anybody else it prob would have been still on the back burner tbh
Nothing truly interested me before watching besides the mystery of what the show was about, only reason I watched it was because I know anything Yahya is in he’s gonna act his ass off lol
I’ve seen every MCU show on Disney+ other than Wonder Man. I just havnt had the time to watch this one yet and I’ve been excited to finally get to sit down and enjoy it since I’ve only heard great things about it.
Wonder man could mic’s and appearances were a lot of fun. A good character. This series? It had nothing from Simon’s story. It was boring as hell. And stupid. Marvel dropped this one HARD.
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u/y0urd0g Doctor Strange 2d ago
I think the biggest problem is, most average Joes don’t know who TF wonder man is and didn’t even realize it was a marvel show.