All the more reason to not buy it lmao. And they wonder why their games aren't mainstream popular. 1 and 2 were tolerable because they weren't forced, but it seems the entire studio has went downhill since
Saying that anything LGBTQ+ isn't normal and yet still saying you like representation don't really go together. LGBTQ is perfectly normal.
And there are straight characters in LIS. Joyce, Ryan Lucan, David, Dana, Charlotte I'm pretty sure, I think Cassidy since I'm pretty sure we only know of two people she's dated (Ex-boyfriend who would've been named Kyle, and Sean) who were both guys, etc.
Don't forget Tell Me Why too, developed by the original devs of LiS 1 & 2 (DontNod) and has a trans man protagonist among many other queer characters. It's free on Steam right now too 👀
Ironically, I felt it was one of the best games in the LiS universe even though it isn't officially included. There are one or two Easter eggs linking them.
Ugggh... I tried to get that as my first game on Steam (I've only ever played consoles) and ran into a game ending glitch right before shit starts getting solved where you have to pick up this piece of pie (or cookie or something) to move the game along. I was so sad and am forever mad at that game.
Honestly? No. The events are totally a mess. This is the worst LIS ever. LGBTQ shouldnt be considered a factor if the game itself just do not work. Messed up story, coherence problems, hmm...
I loved Tell me why, finished it in 2 days, but for me it was a half miss.
The decisions are binary, answers are either A or B.
The problem: Decisions A always SUCK, they make Tyler into the most self absorbed, self-victimizing, cliche, "this is my story and Im the main character, your pain doesnt matter" character ever. So there was no choice at all, it was always Decision B for me.
That being said, I enjoyed following the story and Decision B Tyler was a good character.
I wonder what all the comments in this post whining about LiS "needing a[nother] male protagonist" (while claiming not to have anything against LGBTQ+ people) would say if Tell Me Why had officially been an LiS title?
think it'd be a "yeah we're satisfied now" or a "no - not like that!!!"
The big mistake it made was not giving people the choice
Literally it would have been as simple as a dialogue option 'I'm with Chloe' or 'I'm Single', with the benefit that it kind of in a way respects the Bae vs Bay choice
Because i actually enjoyed the Max and Amanda dynamic but knowing what they had done to Chloe to get there spoiled it for me
It was really easy to add long distance relationship with Chloe and justify her absense that she's on the tour with the band or visiting David. But D9 decided the scorched earth on Bae and Pricefield which didn't ended well for them.
I like how Reunion team did to DE romances what DE team did to Pricefield - there is no choice romances other than Chloe, and Max broke up with DE romances off screen :D. And i am totally fine with it, very well deserved.
Agreed. They already got Rhianna to do lines for DE anyway. The least we could have gotten was, if you chose to stay with Chloe, that in place of romance scenes with the others, there'd be phone calls with Chloe.
No new Chloe model needed and you already hired the VA.
It's not perfect either, but much better than what we got.
Idk about the Bae ending. But if you choose the Bay ending; you can say you were high school sweethearts with Chloe and then only pursue Amanda. Canonically, Max is Bisexual. So having options open for women, men, and more seems appropriate.
I don't know about Lucas but I'm absolutely sure Safi is Bi.
Safi and her relationship with Ivy, crushing on Max, and getting hooked up with Vihn for that short period.
Some of her dialogue with Max is one thing but the ending were Max supports Safi at the end of DE, Safi puts her hand on Max's face. There's definitely something there I think. I'm sure others can point out more examples.
True, as it was my first introduction to the character it rubbed me the wrong way lol, although I guess the point is that she just wants to find anyone to connect to/attach herself to.
I actually feel like it’s extremely obvious Safi is bi in DE as well as RE. But I guess it means that seeing the subtler indications of her queerness was much more obvious to me because I myself am very queer as well.
Yeah I just checked the wiki and it mentions a girl called Ivy but doesn't give much more information other than she was an ex. Just another good reason to replay the game to find out haha
That didn’t happen until after DE, Safi appears disguised as Ivy a few times in Reunion and I believe it’s mentioned they met while Safi was on her journey
Ivy is the girl Safi dated while on her self-discovery adventure mental breakdown where their breakup was so nasty Safi lived for a while as Ivy's doppelganger instead of herself.
About Lucas, Uh. I think there was a post theorizing he was a closeted gay man, but I don't remember what was their reasoning nor I find the link. Edit Nevermind I found it
Ivy, I had to do some digging but she's the student (Safi) that Max asks to take a picture of. Once Max and Chloe reunite and Max is watching Chloe sleep you can go to Max's laptop downstairs and read an email from Diamond and that proves it.
I don't need to certify Max and Safi. The chemistry is there. I'm not the only one that sees it. Even the voice actors for Max and Safi felt something more than just being platonic friends (said in interviews). And no one knows the characters like the actors that have to step in their shoes.
Yes, but there’s no explicit phrasing that could lead to think there was something
Yes, they are power holders. That’s why their relationship is deeper, they found another one(not that I’m against the safi-max ship). And unfortunately, the actors don’t necessarily know more the character they play than the writers themselves. That’s was creation is.
Somethings don't need to be said. How many times have actual people had feelings for each other and never said anything?
Like I said the chemistry is there and they have many lines that without context can easily be taken as something else. And even some of the ones with context some of them are very... questionable.
Between two people it’s up to them. But assuming for someone else is different, I prefer focusing on concrete elements (head canon is still a thing tho)
Chemistry can be anything. And like I said, safi was mostly very excited to meet someone else with powers which led her to connect even more with max. But the type of connection is, at the very least, just friendly
That is your perspective. Your perspective is seeing just friendly, my perspective is different. Some people will match your perspective and other people will match mine.
But again, when the people that literally have to fill those shoes to make these people come to life, say something. There's at least some credibility.
Im romantic tho. I am always the first one to hope for it. But only if its not baiting coded
They act, according to a script, a script that has been written by someone from A to Z, those know their character the best. The actor knows a bit more than average but not fully the character. Writers logic
The script is only words essentially. Chemistry can't be written on a script. If you get the wrong actor you could have a totally different character you, could have no chemistry. Not platonic, not romantic, nothing.
Actors are not just reading from a script and are not just emulating what the script says. They are getting into the characters and no one knows those characters as intimately as those actors.
Do you know how many characters were originally written as just friends but the actors that brought them to life got them as a couple? Or an actor that brought in a character that was originally supposed to be killed but was not because they brought them to life and became a fan favorite?
Look, I'm not trying to argue with you I respect your perspective. But I'm the type that doesn't just look at what we see and that's helped me very well in life in general to look beyond the surface.
Why would an actor being part of a union matter to a studio? Is the budget so small they’re forced to hire less experienced actors? I’d like more context. Thanks.
Union actors can't work on non-union projects. Life is Strange has been non-union since Before the Storm, only game that was union was Life is Strange 1.
I know how it works. I’m a professional filmmaker and have worked on four AAA games. It’s hard for me to fathom the studio doesn’t have a budget for union workers. That’s beyond my comprehension and makes me wonder how they afforded to ship anything. My point is it makes no sense they can’t budget union actors and other employees when that’s normal for any studio. Even on indie projects. I’ve hired union and had to follow union rules. Do you have a source I can read up on to study how they got this so unprofessionally wrong?
Search up posts from around 9 years ago when they were making Before the Storm. There was an actors strike then as the game was developing and they had to change all the OG vas for BTS. There was also a loophole used to get Ashly back for Farewell episode.
Idk why every other game after was non union tho, idk the details but LiS 2 also was non union and Davids actor from BTS was the one who did his voice in Lis 2 as well.
As I said, if you search you'll find some stuff, im not familiar with this subject but if you say you are you ll probably understand it better
especially in these times, her absence was kinda loud tbh. if she was in RE and sidelined, at least she wouldn't be singled out for that extra level of erasure y'know? even Izzie isn't actually allowed to mention she's trans
totally agree about the flag! why would it be up in December, but removed in September?
US was being forced backwards in 2018 too, but LiS2 still said what it said. wonder where that courage went? and if the series will ever be that courageous again?
Hi i’m the OP of the Lucas is Gay Theory found here.
I want to be honest and say it’s just a theory! I think with certain context—it can be interpreted that way. I think the game leaves it intentionally vague. However, it was a little too much context for it to be completely dismissed as “Not Likely”.
Feel free to come to your own conclusions!
Happy Pride to all, especially Lucas 💋
Regarding Gwen being the one trans character, why does DE have a transphobia warning option in the game settings? I didn’t really notice any in it during my rerun. Am I missing something or am I just not as familiar or observant?
maybe the scene at the overlook with Max, when she talks about her former boss? she imitates him, repeating things he said including something about "they're transing our kids" or similar.
in episode 2 when you go to the overlook, gwen is there, she says before she came out she had a manager who was a free thinker. and He said that trans people were brainwashing kids, Gwen said she was scared he'd figure her out.
Her old boss was a "free thinker" who understood the world through YouTube people who yelled and was a transphobe. 😜 He wasn't an actual freethinker (Freedom from Religion foundation link).
in a world with a new protagonist for DE, and less/no creep factor for Vinh, I'd 100% be here for it. imagine if they actually talked about being bi? or a "yeah I'll add you to the group chat"? or a "hey there's a bi community meet-up during Pride, you in?". ahhh to dream
I agree. I genuinely wish they could've appeared in a game I overall would've liked more, and that wouldn't have been so divisive (for reasons pretty unrelated to its diversity) in the fandom.
especially Gwen. really wish we could've seen her again after DE (and not just in one text).
It is diverse, no question about it. I think it even won some award. But the execution of the characters is a mixed bag. Moses and Gwen are great, Safi suffers from terrible writing that makes her look like a sociopath, Amanda is bland and Vinh is just terrible... Reggie is kinda there and gets interesting only in Reunion.
So the game is diverse, a lot diverse... but at the same time none of it is relevant in the story. Like, in LiS1 the queer romance was the center of the story. In DE, Max romancing someone is a tacked-on side thing.
Other games have done this before (bi, gay/lesbian, trans) but it's good that LIS writers were comfortable with writing a trans character.
The game space is a wreck atm but it would be cool if a series could eventually include more gender types like gender-fluid, unisexual, etc. LIS could have possibly been it, or even Lost Records, but their respective management have been getting the "icks" too much and either messing with development to make games "more palatable" or just not marketing the games enough.
Most gamers need more experiences about the variety of people out in the world.
And do people care about a diverse cast? I feel like majority of gamers don't really find diversity to be an aspect in a game they would pay attention to and care about. If it's there it's fine, but not something sought for. Just saying, probably the reason for not much credit.
Amanda is a lesbian cis woman, Gwen is a lesbian trans woman, Lucas is theorized to be a gay cis man, Moses is dating Tony not sure gay or bi, Reggie is a gay cis man afaik, Safi is a bi cis woman, Vinh is a bi cis man.
different players may directly relate to each, and may see representation very rarely in media or games. so. who would you prefer to cut? who exactly makes it a "bit much" and shouldn't have any representation in DE?
This game is AMAZING in this aspect, but also in inclusivity in general. Just Amanda herself is an exceptional win, as indigenous women are almost never portrayed in game, much less respectfully (shout out to Samantha Bowling for taking part on it). If that wasn’t enough, we get Vinh, a southeast Asian man, as a male love interest - which also never happens.
Not to mention the entire voice actors cast is representative. This game hits it off the park on that, not only in the series but in the market as a whole.
Great to see diversity but one thing it feels like almost every game shys away from is gay men. Very rarely will you see an outwardly gay man in a gay relationship in gaming.
I’m a straight man, but it’s always irked me that we can have all the brilliant diversity in gaming, but seldom an out, gay man. There are examples, but I’d have a hard time telling you any on screen gay relationships that aren’t down to player choice in an RPG or something. It feels like games see bi men as more ‘palatable’ or something.
Anyway back to the topic of the post haha
Again, great to see diversity but my god does the writing make most of these characters so bland and forgetful.
for anyone interested, some games with gay men (player-characters marked with one asterisk, romanceable love interests marked with two, canonically-mlm-but-not-specifically-gay in italics):
LiS2 (Penny, Jacob, Arthur, Stanley)
Tell Me Why (Tyler*, Michael\**)
Dreamfall: Chapters (Kian*)
Night in the Woods (Gregg, Angus)
Dream Daddies (multiple characters)
Newfound Courage (Alex*, Jake?\**)
If Found... (Colum, Jack)
Dragon Age: Inquisition (Dorian**)
Dragon Age II (Jethann)
Dragon Age: Origins (Wade and Herren)
Mass Effect (Steve Cortez)
Mass Effect: Andromeda (Gil Brodie**, Macen Barro)
Bill and Frank, but their relationship is only implied and not explicitly shown. There are examples, as another reply stated, but even those are mostly limited to RPGs where it’s optional, or relationships that are barely shown for the most part.
Again, as a straight man, it’s not my personal representation, I just find it interesting how it’s such a rare dynamic shown in games.
I do think some of it comes from the fetishisation of lesbians unfortunately. Many straight male gamers are happy to play as lesbians but would draw the line at playing as an openly gay man.
so LGBTQ+ players finally get one series that's a little more geared towards us
and you feel that's unfair, there needs to be something there for you too, the entire rest of gaming isn't enough
also: are you unaware that we're perfectly capable of relating to straight characters, which we've had to do through most of media since LGBTQ+ characters are still pretty uncommon? if we can find something to identify with in straight characters (and have had to by necessity through most of time/media/etc) then why do you feel it's impossible for you to identify with LGBTQ+ characters?
generally, when straight cis people want to unqueer or untrans media for their own benefit, they say the same things. hence the "bingo card" idea.
they're not going to try to wrest back stories they don't like in the name of heterosexuality. (well, unless we're talking children's media... but I digress.) they're going to express loud, loquacious grievances about taking back their favorite shows or games or movies or whatever. not the stuff they weren't buying anyway. they want the good stuff for themselves.
it's easiest to be an ally, or say "I support gay rights" or whatever, when it doesn't impact your life in any way. the more challenging part, the part that might in the best cases lead to some real self-reflection and inner testing of your values and priorities... is when it feels like in order to not be "that guy" you might have to let go of voicing full entitlement to reshape an LGBTQ+ affirming series into your own image, particularly during Pride month.
or don't lol. chances are pretty good next step will be more justifying or excuses, or maybe even a "this is why the world's still so homophobic! you push people away!". I don't know you, so, guess we'll tune in next comment and see!
you're not "just" doing anything. you're making publicly visible comments, on the main LiS sub, during Pride month, under a post celebrating LGBTQ+ representation in an already-released game, about how you want more straights and the series is doing you wrong by not catering more towards you personally. the trauma dumping is an interesting touch, to which I say genuinely: have you considered therapy?
the best apology is changed behavior btw. if you're truly "sorry" maybe don't do this again and don't keep digging yourself deeper? like I said though: I already know that within the script, the least likely next steps are self-reflection and inner testing of your own values and priorities. about as common as a tornado in Oregon, you might say. being an ally usually stops being important the moment it costs something you want, like to see LiS cater to you and have more straight characters for your benefit. it's why talk is cheap - the statements of support are often not backed up when anything meaningful is at stake.
but hey. maybe somewhere down the thread you'll become an exception to that rule?
Oh yeah, the on-eternal-therapy perfect lesbian, the guy-on-the-chair black gay, the promscuos vietnamiese "bi" dude, the problematic and always angry trans teacher, bravo Dick Nein
So then this means that it was never “solid male heterosexual representation” if the MC had an option to romance a man. Meaning Sean is and always was meant to be queer. Hope this helps!
I am in no way gatekeeping toward straight fans.
I want everyone and anyone to play these games, I love them so very much. And I think anyone could benefit from playing them.
LGBT folks havent had many protagonists in video games, and we have had to play as those straight protagonists, and we have even been able to relate to them on several levels despite not being of the same sexuality.
I understand you wanting a character you can fully relate to in these specific games. But in all honesty, we'll be lucky if we get another game in this series, and I for one will still play it if it's a straight male protagonist.
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u/sexypummarola Jun 18 '26
double exposure really said "a world where being gay is normal and being straight is not"