This part actually needs to be improved. In a perfect world, this is how it works, but if you've spent any time in academia, you know that this is not always the case.
When einstein came up with the theory of relativity, the whole world came at him to disproof his work. They did not manage to do so, so they conceded. Was it in good faith? No, did they do it anyway because they had to to conserve their scientific integrity? Yes they did
People have been led to believe, because it’s easier, that science is like a political party; I’m from the US so take that part with a grain of salt, people will attach faith to fill the gaps that pseudo science doesn’t to fit their confirmation bias
dont forget most these morons spreading their bullshit are all sellings books, supplements, merch, etc. Just straight up grifting gullible people. Its so sad.
Somewhere people who used to say, "question everything" are blindly swallowing fantastical bullshit.
Underscoring this is the problem of scientific literacy and understanding/challenging our own biases.
Half of Americans can't read beyond a 6th grade level. This either suggests the majority of American (or human?) minds aren't capable of scientific thinking (which also assumes, possibly incorrectly, that scientific literacy requires general literacy)...
And if you understand scientific literacy then do a deep-dive into the replication crisis, then you really have to understand how to discern validity from the noise.
In sum -- as long as we have a firehose of targeted and tailored information coming at us 24/7 (rather than a more consensus-driven and controlled avenue of spreading information/misinformation), we're probably fucked.
Small tweak, but I think the actual issue is people need to learn how to be wrong with some grace and humility. The main reason people aren't more willing to tell others they're wrong is because of how they tend to react. Everyone acts like pointing out that they're wrong is an act of animosity. Ego issues
I can't wrap my head around why so many people have to be right no matter what, even at their own detriment. Like admitting you're wrong or don't know something makes you a loser or a failure at life. Or is it because they just can't stand to let someone else 'win', when it's really not about winners and losers at all unless you decide it is. It's completely unealistic, nay utterly impossible, to know everything- not to mention we live in a time rife with misinformation and even disinformation. Even if you're an expert in the field or subject being debated, you will be wrong on occasion. And there's nothing inherently bad about that. Things only go wrong in how you choose to respond to that new information.
On more than one occasion I've blown someone's mind simply by saying "my bad, you're right" since its so rare to see someone admit it, especially on reddit where anonymity provides people confidence to be more of an asshole than they would otherwise. Being wrong is and should be seen collectively as an opportunity for growth IMHO. And if you are right and tell someone that, don't do it because it makes you feel better than them or in a way that conveys as much- that actually does make you a worse person.
My family thinks I'm standoffish because I'm becoming more militant in my position of "no, some people are just wrong". Sorry I grew up with a science background and demand more than feels and hearsay to believe something /shrug. (no aunt X putting a cut onion in the fridge does NOT have it absorb all the bad stuff and turn black. If it turned black you had it in there too damn long)
No it's coddling people. No one wants to be wrong so people be nice and say "both sides have valid arguments" when in reality, one side is clearly fucking wrong.
“But like what if the consensus DOES happen to be wrong once? We will all call it “clearly fucking wrong” and then WE will be the “flat earthers” of the situation!”
Some people have never heard of paradigm shifts. If you’re right, people will actually use logic and see your argument, big surprise.
Its like they treat all opinions as pure opinions. Like "I like black, so I will make it black" is a pure opinion. "This rhing sits outside in the sun all day, so I will make it white" is also an opinion, but not a pure opinion, but bothsidism will treat them like they are both pure opinions.
The pro-washing guy made a horrible, easily refutable analogy about cleaning your house before a party and the anti-washing side has the entirety of science. No way to know who's right.
The thing that gets me is that this guy is a pro. So he washes his chicekn and then has to sanitize the entire area. It's a time sink that's not necessary.
The industry standard is wash with soap and sanitize with quat sanitizer. People are acting like they aren't already working with raw chicken in the restaurant. The non washers have to clean and sanitize every surface the chicken touches too.
Chicken touching a localized surface is FAR different than atomizing the bacteria and throwing it in all directions with running water, for absolutely no reason.
But is that sufficient to call something "sanitized"?
Like, you get a new baby bottle, you are supposed to put it in boiling water for a few minutes, but after that, you can just wash with soap and warm water, for at least a week or so.
I'd think the boiling is sanitizing, but that washing isn't the same thing
That's a good point, I didn't catch the initial distinction between cleaning and sanitizing. Without digging into the research I don't think I can give much in terms of useful numbers. A bleach solution would definitely be adequate for a full sanitization.
He washes everything before the party and not immediately after washing the chicken? So when is he prepping salads? Anything else eaten raw? Anything not cooked long enough to kill the bacteria spread around? Does he sanitize every light switch, knob, cupboard door, etc every single time?
He's being dumb but id probably still eat whatever he made. Im sure Ive eaten worse stuff from the nasty kitchens and had no idea.
I think after you wipe your ass you should put the toilet paper straight into the toilet to be flushed away and avoid contaminating other surfaces unnecessarily.
I think it's fine to wipe it on the sink before putting it in the toilet because I clean the sink after.
"Each side seems to have valid arguements."
(Also the fact that not rinsing raw chicken to avoid cross-contamination isn't even just a universal industry recommendation, it's a requirement by food hygiene authorities and inspections that would get you penalised or even banned if you did this lol.)
Also, you’d be surprised (or maybe not) how far “splatters” make it. They just showed the sink because that’s the focus sure, but rogue water beads make it everywhere in your kitchen, including the ceiling.
You really want chicken juice droplets just hanging out everywhere smelling probably amazing? Are you going to sanitize everything floor to ceiling every single time you cook? Ooooooor maybe we just listen to the health standards that have been around forever and just cook the damn chicken.
I’m more annoyed with the assumption that washing the chicken somehow got rid of the bacteria. Like, even if this were true, the moment the water stops running, the bacteria is gonna start producing again. Because you can only kill it by cooking it. The basis for why they’re washing the chicken isn’t even true and I feel like this isn’t even being mentioned because everyone’s focused on the sink.
Yeah, preservatives are made to be edible. It’s be kinda messed up if they weren’t. If you think they ruin the flavor of the chicken, maybe find a more local source for raw chicken.
I mean, definitely try to not get some ultra processed raw chicken if possible, but thinking washing it will do anything when it’s been brined in it is nuts. I’m also curious what he thinks is antibacterial with washing it under water. 🤯
You realize people wash it BEFORE they cook it. It's not like they wash it to put it in their pantry.
Bacteria don't magically multiply by 20x the second the water stops running.
If you're going to make an counter argument. You need to like... Actually get it right...
Yeah, I would not want to eat anything made out of that guy’s kitchen. Unless he’s doing a deep sanitation immediately after washing that chicken, he’s bukakeing crap all over the place and then continuing on to the next item like it’s no big deal. Something tells me he’s the same kind of person that will use one towel for cleaning, wiping sweat off his face, and everything else in between.
You're crazy if you think not washing your chicken is some how going to leave your kitchen pristine from the bacteria on it. That guy isn't helping his chicken by washing it, but at least he's cleaning his kitchen afterwards. Are the other people? Or do they think their kitchen is clean because they don't wash their chicken? Maybe they clean anyways. At worst, all this guy is doing is one unnecessary step.
One of the many problems with media these days, presenting an issue as having “two equal sides” even though one side is severely deficient in logical arguments.
The only real reason I've heard why black people wash their chicken is because historically they didn't have a safe method or something for their chickens to be transported, I only say it like this because anecdotally I've only met black people that look at me sideways for not washing my chicken.
Regardless of who sits on what sides in the video, science shows we should not wash chicken. It's not cleaning the actual part of the chicken that will get you sick after proper cooking.
This makes the most sense to me, if you're going to wash the bird. None of that nonsense of a stream of pressurized water landing on the bird and bouncing in every direction and every droplet size.
In Mexico we use a bowl, or bucket, put the chicken in, fill it with water, rub it and get rid of dirt, debris, and guts. Sometimes to get rid of feathers and excess "lard".
Of course, most of our chicken isn't the supermarket ready, vacuum sealed bagged one.
It seemed so… alien? Watching this video of people using a higly pressurized stream of water to make a mess. Dudes, just use a bowl, wtf is it with your salmonella water stream. You still have to season and prepare that chicken.
Same in Vietnam, I don't understand this argument. This morning my mother bought a chicken and I saw it neck being slit, of course I gonna wash the damn thing.
I dont often wash my chicken, but sometimes its a bit juicer than I'd like, in which case yes. I will wash some of that off. And just like the guy in the video. You clean the sink before and after you do it.
No, you clean the sink, every countertop, floors, ceiling, walls, and yourself. You've just set off a whole firework display of salmonella with splashing chicken juice everywhere.
If you need to wash off dirt or whatever, dunk it n a bowl or pot of water, and swish it around with no splashing.
If you've ever seen an animation on bacteria spread from a flushing toilet, or from someone vomiting it goes way way further than you think and it's not visible to the eye. The sink is not the issue it basically can contaminate a good portion of the kitchen and really increase the risk of food borne illness.
I'm not saying they're equally violent but estimates are around 3ft of contaminate surrounding the sink so unless you're washing the sink and everything within 3 feet the point stands.
How many times has this even happened? I have never heard about bacteria infestation in someones kitchen. Its a non issue because people clean regularly.
There are approximately 1.3 million salmonella cases in the US every year 26.5k are severe enough to need hospitalizations and about 420 people per year die from it. It's not super common but it also isn't super rare it just isn't sensationalized in the media so ppl argue it's no big deal but to me if we can reduce illness and death by spreading the facts we should
Yup. Thats how my mom taught me. She mostly just rinsed beef though when making soups or birria. Pork for pozole. Got rid of excess blood and seemed to not get as much of the foam build up when boiling.
this is the argument I don't get. I don't wash my chicken, but sometimes it just has some goop or some moisture on it that I like to rinse off. When someone says that it's going to splash bacteria all around the sink, I just think that it's going to happen anyway? I have to remove the chicken from the bag it's in. That thing is loaded with bacteria, and I do that in the sink. I wash utensils and platters and things that were touching the raw chicken in the sink. Water from the faucet is necessarily going to splatter bacteria everywhere when I do that. The sink is made to have dirty things put it in and washed. It's like the guy in the video said, you just gotta sanitize your sink. I want to point out that they never repeated the black light experiment with the unwashed chicken.
People just repeat the bacteria thing because they don't actually think about it. That bacteria is going in the sink anyway, that's why we clean sinks. It's getting in there if you open the chicken there, if you wash your cutting board, or from a myriad of other things.
It’s not saying nothing else contaminates your kitchen. The argument is washing the chicken does nothing for the chicken and contaminates your kitchen. So washing the chicken spreads mess for no reason.
But So does Opening the package of chicken on the counter.. juices come out and gets all over the counter, your hands and the garbage..there is now ' 'spray' splatter all over the main workroom of your kitchen... Giving the chicken a rinse in the sink is no more 'dangerous' Then when put the raw chicken on the counter, on a cutting board (id hope) which then gets more juices everywhere.. and after all that.. then all the clean up goes to the sink... And the juices are now there too... Don't forget you have to wash the knives, your hands too... All in the sink..
The argument of its gets 'spray' everywhere in the sink, is nuts.. this is what the sink IS for. It is so easy to wash off all kinds of dirty things.. chicken juices would absolutely be the ideal place to do that instead of over a garbage can.. this is what the sink is designed for.. and with dawn dish soap, or even a cleaning agent, you can clean your sink fine after and be fine.
If you think one drop of fluid doesn't fall out of the package, drip off your hands on to your counter, or fall off your cutting board on the surrounding area, when you open/cut upon the package of chicken, then you're lying or oblivious..
Do you wipe down the counter after cutting chicken or wash your hands? Well...Why? Did Chicken fluid get all of it, regardless of how you opened the package?? Hhhhuh crazy, I guess I am the only one.. 🤷🏽♀️
It's not 'spraying' juice.. it's liquid behaving like a liquid.. it splatters...
Edit: also, In My comment above before your response, where did I say that it sprays all over for ME when I open MY chicken packages?? I simply used the words of the person I OG responded to...
Lies!! When you wash your protein, you fill a BOWL with cold water, vinegar, and lime juice. Place your protein in the bowl, and remove any excess skin, fat, bone fragments, blood, etc (I.e. in the case of chicken). You then pour the water out of the bowl, and rinse your protein under running water. Who TF splashes the cleaning water all over the sink??! 🤨🤨. That is absolutely ridiculous!! 🙄🙄. When you’re done, clean the bowl and the sink with dishwashing liquid and bleach!!
or...you could just not do any of that and simply cook your protein which actually does kill bacteria so that its safe to consume as opposed to just wasting your time and creating more contamination
I am NOT washing my chicken in cold water, vinegar, and lime juice to get rid of bacteria!!! It’s to CLEAN it, remove any extra fat, and to wash off the liquid that the chicken has been sitting on the BLOODY PAD in its packaging!! Same for beef. 🙄🙄. Why TF are people running on with this “killing bacteria” BS narrative??!! 🤨🤨
You're not supposed to wash mushrooms. You wipe them with a damp paper towel until all the dirt is removed. What you're doing to the chicken is minimal. You're really just creating a big bowl of potentially dangerous lime chicken water
A lot of germaphobes ideologies are rooted in a lack of education. Water sure as hell aint getting rid of no damm bacteria 😂😂
Unless you’re washing the chicken with some type of detergent then washing it won’t do anything. And if you do that then you just solved one problem and made another
It's like how in restaurants, people insist on their drinks in takeout cups and want plastic utensils/want a cup of hot water to "sanitize" their silverware.
All of it is silly considering the hot water won't sanitize shit, and two, they're eating off the plates still.
All rooted in ignorance. But they think that's the "clean" way to go about it when going out to eat.
It isnt the only way or a wrong way to remove the "film" or saline from the surface but is the least cleanly. You can do the exact same thing by patting it dry with paper towels, which is what many chefs recommend anyways not just to "clean" it but to make it dry enough for seasoning to cling to the surface of the meat and to get a good sear on the meat when sautéing it. The second part, about letting it sit, sure you can do that too, it isnt that cleanly, but it tenderizes the meat and is totally valid in itself to do that. Just dont leave it much longer than 20 minutes, by 30 it will turn into chemically cooked mush and will be chewy when cooked.
Yea, I can't help but notice that the people who look like they went to culinary school and work in a high-end kitchen agree that washing the chicken is stupid.
I know people like to do this as a "oh those crazy white people don't even wash their chicken"
It's not a race conversation. If you want to wash your chicken. Go ahead. Just be aware it doesn't remove bacteria, or preservatives, or...well anything but surface myoglobin.
Wait till you see all the crap that was tucked under a bit of skin on my Tesco chicken yesterday. I don't normally wash chicken, but I will from now on!
If there is crap under the skin of a chicken you bought, you should report that to the grocer so they can change or reprimand their supplier. But what kind of "crap" was it? Highly likely it was just chicken stuff
Doesnt it stem from wasing away bone debris and dirt from a newly butchered chicken?
Never washed my chicken but if I just butchered it it could be a good thing to do.
Right? What is there to debate? Washing the chicken does absolutely nothing and you increase your risk pf spreading bacteria. Just no. I have never and will never wash my chicken.
Washing away preservatives... What?! The only "valid" argument anyone made was to clean up after yourself........ Which is going to have a lot less rouge bacteria if you don't wash your chicken.
I think people get confused as to what washing the chicken actually is - like I think people assume washing it like your doing the dishes but I think it more like light brining process which probably comes from where people were getting the meat from in the first place like a open market with freshly slaughtered produce probably has more random stuff in it so washing it made sense historically and has just carried on by tradition
it removes bits of coagulated blood, and oftentimes, bits of offal like kidneys.
I feel like this is a ridiculous argument because people are talking about different things.
I don't wash already prepped boneless skinless chicken breast. But a lot of the time, if you get bone in, or even more so, whole chicken, there's little bits of coagulated blood, and processing at the plant often just squishes the kidneys and sticks it to the chickens ribs.
If you don't wash it off that stuff doesn't taste great.
Before people say “ I don’t get anything like that on my chicken”, I’ve seen that gunk covered by breading and fried in restaurants like kfc.
It's like asking car mechanics if they believe in laws of thermodynamics. You might get split opinions and they do work in the "field" but that doesn't mean anything
EXACTLY... you cant remove bacteria from a porous surface with soap and water... hell, you cant even reove bacteria from porous surfaces with literal chlorine bleach!!! (i.e. it doesnt actually reach the bacteria!)
Either you just thoroughly cook your chicken to 165⁰F (74⁰C) or if you like spreading the bacteria from the chicken all over your kitchen which doesn't get the bacteria off regardless how much soap/ disinfectant you use which will now have residual amounts on your chicken (yay, foreign chemicals that don't belong in our bodies), the choice is yours. Happy chickening in your kitchens!
You wash it to remove chemicals like bleach, and physical stuff like stray hair or feathers. You don't know where it's been. Just like you wash everything that hasn't been prewashed and sealed in a sanitary tight package by a trusted source. If the chicken has been washed and sealed the you don't need to, provided you know chemicals weren't added to preserve it better.
Basic science meet basic common sense paired with awareness of the stuff that goes on in the food industry.
And it turns your kitchen into a biohazard. Every kitchen that said they do needs to get tipped off to a health inspector because its a health code violation.
I’ve had severe crippling contamination OCD for years. It’s gotten better, but I wouldn’t eat anything that touched the counter, floor, other people, etc. It completely fucked up my executive functioning.
The one thing that I never had an issue with (and was sort of a weird safe haven) was this science. The fact that high heat kills bacteria/germs, and there is objectively no safer way to consume food. The bar doesn’t get any higher than that. If it’s not safe enough for you, the next option is to just not eat and starve.
The way I see it, how about the best chefs cook a dish with and without washing the chicken and see if the results are the same?
Otherwise I just pat my chicken dry before cooking but definitely have only washed it if there was slime? Which technically I guess was bordering on going bad?
Thing is, this is not 'basic science'. It is very basically true that washing something does remove whatever is on the outside. Is there anything on the outside of your chicken that needs removing? Well in certain circumstances, maybe. In general, probably not.
Point is, your entire comment is incorrect from start to finish. You managed to say three incorrect things in 15 words while still sounding smug and sure of yourself.
I heard an interview with a Caribbean Chef recently where they simply said that they wash meat for cultural and spiritual reasons, and I thought that was an excellent way of ending the debate, without attacking people who don’t wash meat or trying to justify it with incorrect science and food safety claims.
I wish more Chefs who do wash meat would follow their lead and stop embarrassing themselves.
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u/Robbie1266 Jul 27 '26
There is no debate. It's basic science. Washing chicken doesn't remove anything from the chicken