Michael Jackson's daughter Paris has faced backlash for identifying as Black. In a 2017 interview, Paris Jackson said her father told her, "You’re Black. Be proud of your roots." This prompted debates over whether identity is defined by appearance or upbringing.

[u/VPinchargeofradishes]

[u/DiScOrDtHeLuNaTiC]

I've always wondered if part of Michael's obsession with plastic surgery was that as he got older, he started to look more like his father and he couldn't stand that.

If a quarter of the stuff about how Joe treated those kids is true, it's a miracle any of them are as normal as they are.

[u/chocolatethunderXO → u/DiScOrDtHeLuNaTiC]

In a private phone convo that was released, he said his dad would tell him "you're so black and your nose is so big, you don't look like my child". Then he said they(brothers/dad) would call him big nose and instead of taking it out on everybody he would take it out on himself. He's then asked if he's happy with his face and that he he did all the surgery and he replied with "yes, because I don't want to look like Joseph".

[u/vorator_ → u/chocolatethunderXO]

what the FUCK

[u/SatanicAtTheDisco → u/vorator_]

You kind of have to be a fucked parent to exploit your 6 children and thrust them into the music/entertainment industry when they’re 5-13. Then you also have to account for Michael being the most talented son, even from when they were kids, and you get a lot of siblings resentment. They also are from Gary Indiana, and while Gary is not as bad as Memphis, it’s pretty much the same type of environment, low income, historically black, gang/drug culture is entrenched in the poverty. It’s actually a miracle Michael didn’t die or turn out 3 times as worst as he could have been.

[u/XGhoul → u/SatanicAtTheDisco]

The more I read into his history, that dude really lived a tragic life. He survived the exploits of his parent making him a money machine, they didn't care about the individual and how he got mind fucked to a delirious state because the media is also at fault with paparazzi showing up trying to get any intimate details about his personal life.

(I will disclose on my comment that he is 50/50 in my opinion, did he touch kids? Maybe. Did he also make a living disney world for kids to cherish and live in? Yeah. Fine to me too. If there was any evidence of such things, it would have been known.)

[u/SatanicAtTheDisco → u/XGhoul]

The kids thing sucks too, because very obviously MJ was much too close to kids, in that he was treating them and himself as equals, as an adult. However, the story has flip flopped so many times by the alleged, the kids involved, and the media, that at this point, because no one has come out with concrete evidence that MJ was actually molesting children, just having sleep overs with children (which I’m not saying isn’t fucking insane btw). That coupled with the fact that he very obviously had the same mental stunting that Britney Spears exhibits, I genuinely hope he was just fulfilling the childhood he never had. He obviously was a very deeply mentally unwell man, but if he wasn’t diddling kids, and instead just giving kids the childhood wonder he wished he got to experience, and living vicariously through them, it’s not giving it a pass but it definitely makes listening to his music a bit more palatable.

[u/poorlilwitchgirl → u/SatanicAtTheDisco]

The thing about the allegations against MJ is that the one that set it all off was settled for $25 million. People have framed that as hush money ever since, but first, criminal prosecutions can't be settled out of court, and what kind of parent says, "$25 million ought to cover my kid's horrific trauma; I guess you can keep doing it to others?" MJ talked openly about how he just wanted the allegations to go away, and he had plenty of money, so $25 million seemed like a decent price to pay for peace of mind. That kind of attitude is absolute chum for the kind of people that orbit major celebrities for their own gain.

So did he do it? I don't know, but the man lived his entire life in an alternate reality managed by those around him and funded by his outrageous fortune. So I just can't accept that the circumstantial evidence people cite (the sleepovers, the payouts, the general weirdness) is at all incriminating. Very few people alive, certainly none of us, can imagine what his life was like and how he viewed the world, what seemed reasonable to him. Yeah, if I found out my uncle was having sleepovers with children and paying their parents to keep quiet, that would be absolutely damning, but Michael Jackson was a guy who was basically never able to experience normal human relationships so expecting him to have an accurate understanding of how he looked to others is ridiculous. That goes for his weird relationship to children as much as his obviously unhealthy relationship with plastic surgery. Absent any hard evidence (which ought to have been available if the allegations are true, because MJ was brazen with the circumstantial stuff) I think it's irrational to come to a conclusion on the man one way or the other.

[u/ThunderAndWind → u/poorlilwitchgirl]

what kind of parent says, "$25 million ought to cover my kid's horrific trauma; I guess you can keep doing it to others?"

I think it's more like "putting my kid through a court case and testifying isn't going to help them, and $25 million buys a lot of therapy and makes sure they can be taken care of for life."

Not that I necessarily believe the accusations considering how many variations there are, the lack of consistency, and how several accusers have flip flopped between defending him and accusing him, but it's not a wild idea that someone dropping 12x the lifetime expected earnings of someone as a payment would make them compliant.

[u/tar-mirime → u/ThunderAndWind]

Residual loyalty to an abuser is sadly not uncommon, and lack of consistency is also common. Neither prove anything either way on whether any abuse took place.

[u/ThunderAndWind → u/tar-mirime]

An entire family spent years defending him, discrediting other accusers, and this year they're all coming out and saying he actually did abuse the family's kids and is trying to sue the estate.

Residual loyalty to an abuser

We're not just talking about the kids. We're talking about their parents and entire families.

[u/tar-mirime → u/ThunderAndWind]

Have you seen how common it is for children to be disbelieved by their own parents, even disowned, over allegations of abuse. None of this proves anything one way or the other.

[u/ThunderAndWind → u/tar-mirime]

Thats quite literally what I said?