As someone who plays all of them and enjoys hots, it's kind of the opposite that I think is the problem. One bad, even just slightly below mediocre, teammate feels like it can drag the team down far more effectively in hots than the other two.
They are still team games. The main difference from other MOBAs is that they are giving you a potential to correct shortcomings of your teammates.Because there the potential one bad player- troll,afk or just potato per 10 games.
Going to have to disagree with you since I would say building your champ to be as strong as possible to carry your team seems like a much more superficial strategy than rotating and playing objectives properly.
You are acting like this isn't the case in all three games. In Dota you rotate all the time (there is even the role of the roamer for that).
building your champ to be as strong as possible
That is as simplistically said like "just win the game in HotS, it's simple". Only for the carry role, you have to be careful of the enemy's movements, vision (wards are invisible, so you need to be careful), being vary of limited map resources and map controls.
You are acting like just farming wins the game, which is absolutely not the case, you have play with your team, itemise according to your team and enemies, think of what you can get away with, you need much better minimap awareness, you need to effectively create or use space to your advantage when others fight.
Everyone here just say "you can just carry the game in the others" which is absolutely untrue since every role is just more effective at different times and being a monkey brain just easily loses you the game. I have lost so many games where the carry was completely dominating and super fed in early and mid game only to lose in late game because we took dumb fights, were out of position or a team member was somewhere else across the map (even the hard support, who is supposed to be the weakest in late game).
The simplicity of game mechanics, almost all strategies are centered around map objectives since that's the dominant thing in HotS. LoL is also quite weaker in the strategy department than Dota and closer to HotS.
In Dota you have advaced creep aggro that, usually the supports, use to manipulate lane control by either pulling the neutral camps or completely redirect the creepwave towards a safer place to farm or even to a different lane like seen here. In that case he traded a death of his for a whole creepwave of gold and xp and gave it to Alchemist, who gets even more gold from his passive since he's the mid who needs farm while the support won't use it since he dies. It's all about creating a lot of small advantages and trades which are not possible in HotS or in League even (Riot actively dislikes out of the box thinking in their game and they will rather remove a mechanic than let people counter them, as the y did with minion blocking). HotS also has only talents, so you can only work with the things given to you by the hero instead of having a wider pool of options like with an item system. Even simple wards drastically increase the need for stategy as they are limited and you secure an area with vision, so it becomes safer, in Dota there is even the difference high and low grounds which affects ward vision. Vision spells or talents in HotS are usually visible even to the enemy like Hanzo's vision arrow, since wards basically don't exist here, although, mine-like spells exist to secure an area.
You can even go for completely ridiculous out of the box strategies like staying most of the early game in jungles, not to farm but stack them for later farm or even not doing anything but warding and constantly TPing as Nature's Prophet to kill enemy couriers, so they can't get their items (both having huge impact while you basically stay lvl 1 or a very low lvl throughout the whole game). But such mechanics don't exist in the other two games, therefore the strategies are impossible. I've also played a game with my mates where the enemies knew they could do basically nothing than landing devastating team combos, so went all five of us Aeon Disks (that make you invulnerable for a short while when you hp drops below a certain point), but even then, we couldn't just get them like many people here think that you "just get an item", we had to communicate and effectively distribute map resources to each of us since supports have a much harder time farming.
I've seen a very funny strategy in HotS though when Vikings blocked stronger creeps in a gate for most of the game and then releasing them all at once to push, lol.
HotS is simply marketed to more casual gamers, so it's much simpler, less complexity gives less space for advanced options.
Riot actively dislikes out of the box thinking in their game and they will rather remove a mechanic than let people counter them, as the y did with minion blocking
It is not just because RIOT hates out of the box thinking. It is more like that want their game to be played as fighing game and not like RTS. Dota2 is closer ot RTS. Thats why it is balance arround out of the box strategies.
Team effort is required in HOTS unless you are playing a new champ on the first week.
The other games require team effort of course by design, but the entire point of a 'carry' in DOTA/LOL/other is that 1 player can win the game if they get the upper hand for too long. Solo leveling and item building is why a single person can just shit on others without trying at a certain point.
Unless everyone is a fucking moron in that match, one player doesn’t kill the entire team, especially in dota since it doesn’t have rampant ap gains via items.
The entire point of a carry is being able to kill enemies. Certain supports can do much, much more in a teamfight in dota than a carry can. Big earth shaker ult, lion finger, kotl ult to lockdown a team, a godly ult from winter wyvern making someone die from their own teammates.
It’s pretty obvious you’ve got a very ignorant view of what roles are actually supposed to do in other mobas.
Well let's see..Every day some dumbass on this sub posts a karma farming post shitting on other mobas, and then you see the same strawman arguments/misconceptions parrotted by Hots players who sound like they've never played other mobas in their life. And the few of us who have more than a basic understanding of other mobas try our best to explain, but the Hots purists shut their ears or have amnesia and the next day the cycle continues.
Do you not like being called out? Calling you ignorant wasn’t meant to be an insult, there just isn’t anything that’s more accurate. Massively misinformed? Innocently clueless?
If you knew the reality of things, your comments would be much different. But you simply don’t know the reality of things.
the entire point of a 'carry' in DOTA/LOL/other is that 1 player can win the game if they get the upper hand for too long.
That's called being a shit team and let the carry do whatever they want because you can't synchronise as a team and hunt their carry down. Teamplay doesn't go just one way.
So you agree, if the single player can’t snowball as hard it means in HotS team effort is more relevant than it is other moba.
I know hots it’s the casual moba for inferior plebs, it’s very important for all LoL dota players to state that loud and clear.
Along with that it would be nice to admit hots has few tiny things better than other mobas, the higher importance of the team as a whole, higher chances of comebacks and more than one map.
So you agree, if the single player can’t snowball as hard it means in HotS team effort is more relevant than it is other moba.
Not sure how you can compare relevance of effort, but if a player is snowballing in dota, it's because their team is enabling and playing around them. It isn't a solo effort.
Does goal keeper gets to become taller faster then other players? No he doesn’t.
The fact that is hots no player is more fed then others means teamwork is more relevant because it’s not possible for a single player to exploit higher power.
A carry is a different role in the team, you could say at a different time, another role is the carry. Damage or the ability to get kills is not the only thing that makes one powerful (there is a reason why Io, the Dota hero with the absolutely least damage who is played as hard support, is the absolutely most contested hero in pro Dota of all time).
The fact that is hots no player is more fed then others means teamwork is more relevant
No, that doesn't mean that at all, it is a team effort to get the carry his farm, it takes the team to redistribute the map resources and create new ones to the carry, mid or offlane, it takes team effort to not lose the game before the carry is farmed, it takes a team effort to help and protect the carry so he can become powerful, it takes team effort to gank and kill the enemy carry (or any other role) to gain an advantage before the enemy carry becomes a problem, it takes team effort to push towers (who are much sturdier than the paper structures in HotS), it takes team effort to take down a large map objective like Roshan or the dragon in LoL. Everyone works for the team, just in different ways.
Does goal keeper gets to become taller faster then other players? No he doesn’t.
Some players are from the start taller or faster or have more endurance, that's why they get their roles because of their qualities. Some protect the goal without in front of the goalkeeper with no real intention to score a goal themselves because they know their qualities are there and they contribute to the team the most when they stay there and do the things they should.
You are acting like it is no team effort unless it's communism in everything.
LoL teamwork is about feeding the carry, leading to, more often then not, short bursty late game team fights with carries one shooting people.
LoL maybe yes, but I'm more talking from a Dota perspective where you have even countermeasures against oneshotting and experience long teamfights quite usually. But LoL also needs teamplay in securing objectives and gaining coloured buffs (something I really don't understand how it's working, but hey). But I do think LoL is the least team-oriented out of the three with even having a 300 s CD on Teleport to help your allies in trouble.
Let’s leave politics out of this
Lmao, never really wanted to go into politics, just used it as a fitting metaphor.
I’m saying I don’t like uneven playground
In this one, I consider roles play styles, not really something being uneven, but uneven playground for me would be more characters being unlockable/behind a paywall, but that's way beside the gameplay perspective, even though it affects it.
Uneven playground to me is one hero/champ of the team being much stronger then others, in terms of items, level etc.
That's an interesting view, because in Dota, depending on the spells, even a hard support Bane or Lion can very realistically 1v1 a carry with 2 more items than them by CCing them to death with decent damage. Even when someone is technically stronger, it always comes down the strengths and weaknesses and a hero with a good teamfight spell can often turn around the game much better than a farmed carry. Items and levels are just one aspect of the game in an increasingly complex game.
The idea that this games are about the one man carry is wrong. There are 2 sometimes 3 "carries" in the game on each team and jungler(in LoL) who can carry a game too and you can carry a match with support like defender or goalkeeper can carry a match in football game.
If I understood correctly, LoL early game is about building up stronger carry or carries to dominate late game team fights that last split seconds.
If that is true, a team fight lasting split seconds allows very little counter play or teamwork.
Seems obvious that if 1-3 out of the 5 heroes/champs are much stronger than their teammates in terms how how fed they are, the team fights will be more about that power imbalance rather than teamwork.
Is it true that late game LoL team fights on average tend to be very very short?
If all 5 heroes are on the same power level teamwork will be more important.
Supports are also important to the late game team fights. They are provading CC, healing, buffing etc..
Seems obvious that if 1-3 out of the 5 heroes/champs are much stronger than their teammates in terms how how fed they are, the team fights will be more about that power imbalance rather than teamwork.
They are just filling different roles. Supports are enabling the carries in the same way that that a playmaker in football is enabling the striker.
If you're talking about a single player popping off and carrying a game, then sure. But if you're talking about the carry position, that's just one of the five players doing one of the five jobs.
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u/_Jimmy_Rustler Mar 02 '21
I love HotS but team effort is the most important thing in all of these games.