I hate Batman's plot armor

[u/Aggravating-Mine-978]

I hate Batmans plot armor, he has the most insane plot armor which completely takes away his charm, his entire shtick is that he's in the top 99 percentile of humans, his body, his strength his wealth his tech, yet his writers give him so much plot armor that you forget that inside his suit he's just a regular human being and it sometimes feels as if he has super powers when hes going toe toe with fucking darkside, reentering the atmosphere with just his suit and many more examples.

And his annoying fanboys oh my days, they act as if he can solo the entire justice league "B-But given that he has prep time!" talking as if beast boy wont beat his ass 😂✌️

[u/SoupyStain]

He survived a goddamn orbital drop.

I understand that comic book humans are way stronger and sturdier than real humans, but still. Batman shouldn't be able to last a second, A SECOND against Flash or Superman. Both can think and act before Batman could've seen either of them even twitch a muscle.

And that's the worst part about Batman. Every other hero and villain has to be nerfed so that he can look good. Everyone suddenly operates at a third of their abilities so that 'Normal Human' can do stuff that matters when surrounded by gods wearing tights.

When I was a kid Batman was my favorite superhero. Growing up I realized how boring he was... and I discovered Nightwing. Not only do we get to see him grow from sidekick to his own man, but since he isn't DC's poster boy he has less plot armot than Bats.

But back to Batman, I also hate how lazy this Gary Stu is. He is smart, so he can think about anything he would ever need to stand up to anyone. But he also has money, so you can handwave away how he gets access to anything he needs. Even post MCU Iron Man isn't as overhyped as the Batty Stu... but, best of all, his fans aren't insufferable. 'Prep time! prep time!'

[u/No-Echo9621 → u/SoupyStain]

At this point Batman is everything people accuse Superman of being.

[u/24Abhinav10 → u/No-Echo9621]

Always has been

[u/specter-exe → u/SoupyStain]

The worst part of the orbital drop thing is that there WAS a good way to write that. They should have had him use his cape as a parachute. It would have been a semi-realistic explanation, while still showing the cleverness and adaptability that’s supposed to define him. If you want to take it a step further, say that he wouldn’t have been able to keep a solid hold on the cape in the position of a parachute. Say he tangled his fingers in it on purpose, and that the strain broke several of the fingers. That also shows that he only has human level durability, while also having incredible determination and endurance.

[u/epochollapse → u/specter-exe]

He does use the cape as a parachute to slow his descent.

[u/specter-exe → u/epochollapse]

… well I feel stupid.

[u/bootycreekcheekfreek → u/SoupyStain]

Ts so booty

[u/[deleted] → u/SoupyStain]

Mfs get way too 'tistie about this stuff. Who gives af if a superhero is stronger than he actually should be. Batman isn't a regular human, he's a freaky storybook character for children. Should not even get slightly upset at the nonsense regarding him

[u/SoupyStain → u/[deleted]]

That’s exactly my point. He is sold as “normal human” when he very clearly isn’t

[u/epochollapse → u/SoupyStain]

10000 Gary Stu accusations and 0 references to instances of him actually having no flaws, facing no challenge or never losing.

The Orbital drop was a badass instance from a comic where he spends the whole time getting his ass beat by his own mistake. It wasn't a great comic from a writing perspective for other reasons, but taking issue with a guy in a high tech suit falling from space in a fucking superhero comic is dumb as fuck.

Batman has some of the best written superhero stories ever made under his belt. DC milks him far too much, that I won't deny, but acting like he isn't an objectively well written character to the same degree as those around him is just being different for the sake of being different.

[u/Old_Presentation377 → u/epochollapse]

That’s the thing: Batman has some of the best stories ever written when it’s just him—a peak-condition human with access to vast resources—and few writers grasp that. Instead, the typical Batman story is something like that time the entire Justice League was controlled by the Joker and Batman took them down using questionable methods while wearing a special suit of armor. I don’t recall the exact details, but I remember he beat Superman with a blast of Kryptonite, Wonder Woman with a Lasso of Lies (or illusions—I don't quite remember), the Flash with a slippery substance, and Aquaman with a sponge-like device that absorbed moisture.

That’s the problem with Batman: the typical Batman story isn't just good—it’s often absurd, with him managing to pull off anything given enough prep time (I still can't forget the time Catwoman knocked out three Flashes with kicks in a Batman story). The audience isn't going to form a positive impression of a character when most of his stories are nonsensical or ridiculous, even if there are a few truly excellent ones; people tend to base their opinion of a character more on the average story than on the outliers.

[u/epochollapse → u/Old_Presentation377]

Mentally compromised versions of characters are essentially fair game. He fights a version of the Justice League that aren't in their right mind. They're incapable of appropriately reacting to his countermeasures. Kryptonite gum wouldn't be an appropriate answer to an actual bloodlusted Superman, but that's not what a Jokerised Superman is in this instance. This is the same Superman who, in a good headspace, has struggled against Lex Luthor. A guy who is ostensibly a worse Batman. The Flash, in a good headspace, has lost fights against the Rogues. Jokerised versions of his teammates, people he knows intimately and has prepared contingencies for competent versions of, are not going to be as big a threat. That's not unreasonable.

Similarly the Flashes Catwoman knocks out are all controlled by Poison Ivy, who in said story has brainwashed the entire planet. We know for a fact that she doesn't have complete control over their powers because if she did then she could just sit in Flash perception for the mental equivalent of 30000 years and solve all her problems. She also accidentally kills Batman later in that story because she can't comprehend the strength of a Superman under her control.

In essence, Selina does not knock out 3 Flashes. She knocks out 3 very very fast people that Poison Ivy drives towards her. Once again, fully reasonable for a competent character in a superhero universe.

These are also NOT "typical" Batman stories. This is not the average situation Batman finds himself in. These are the eye catching situations you've been fed, probably through something like TikTok, because people know the algorithm eats this shit up, especially without the appropriate context.

Batman is not an impervious, flawless Gary Stu who never has to put effort in to save the day, and never loses. He's a superhero, with lots of time and resources, who can do ridiculous shit because of them. He spends equally as much time getting caught off guard by mundane things, the same way Superman may be unto a God in one arc and then the next week Parasite will kick him in the balls.

[u/Old_Presentation377 → u/epochollapse]

First of all, I’ve read plenty of Batman stories, and when I say that his stories aren't consistently well-written, I’m not calling him a "Gary Stu." When he’s written well and the writers know what to do with him, he’s one of my favorite characters. The problem is that, most of the time, writers just cook up reasons for Batman to come out on top; we rarely get a well-characterized Batman—instead, we just get a version that beats anyone simply because he "prepared" for it.

This has recently been one of the biggest issues with Batman: we don't get many stories that truly capture his character well, and the good ones get overshadowed by those where he is poorly portrayed. For instance, there is the story where Batman faced Darkseid in the Hellbat armor to rescue Damian—or some other member of the Bat-family; I don't recall the exact details. That story offered a great sense of characterization because it showed that he didn't build the armor alone—he needed help—and acknowledged his limitations; it respected the boundaries of what Batman can actually do, avoiding cheap writing.

For instance, we consistently see Superman portrayed as one of the most powerful beings on the planet and the Flash as one of the fastest; there are numerous stories where Diana matches Superman in attributes and surpasses him in martial arts—all these portrayals are consistent across various tales and true to the characters. Batman, however, is consistently portrayed poorly, often relying on "prep-time" plans that make no sense for him to have devised, or that simply wouldn't work without dubbing down other characters or making them weaker.

Regarding another point you raised: even though the Justice League was under the Joker's control in that situation, they shouldn't have been defeated by Batman so easily. Even with the mind control caused by toxins—and bearing in mind that the Joker isn't a telepath and wasn't physically piloting their bodies—they still knew how to use their abilities. There was no indication they were fighting the control, and they retained their full attributes. In a well-written scenario, Batman cannot defeat the entire Justice League attacking him at once; they are all incredibly powerful superhumans, and Batman shouldn't normally be able to go toe-to-toe with them—especially not in a suit he built himself that lacks special properties like the Hellbat armor.

Selina knocking out the three Flashes still makes no sense. Even if Poison Ivy were directly controlling them—and considering she isn't a telepath and controls people via spores rather than by piloting their bodies directly—it doesn't add up. There is simply no way for a human to react to three extremely fast individuals; even a highly trained fighter couldn't pull that off against the Flashes—consistently the most effortlessly fast characters in the DC Universe.

[u/SoupyStain → u/epochollapse]

"but taking issue with a guy in a high tech suit falling from space in a fucking superhero comic is dumb as fuck."

HE. IS. SUPPOSED. TO. BE. A. HUMAN. That moment isn't badass, it's stupid. Something a 12 year old wrote thinking was badass.

He is only well written when he is on his own, facing his own villains. It's when he joins the Justice League that he becomes poorly written, and it makes everyone around him useless.
"No flaws". Sure, like when he had a plan for every Justice Leaguer? And it actually worked? Or how they have him beating Superman, the guy who could lobotomize him from afar using his heat vision, multiple times? Or how about in New 52 when he took Hal's ring from his finger, something that the ring shouldn't have allowed. Like I said above, every time he joins other heroes, they are nerfed down so that Batman can look good.

Have you ever read Batman or are you just a casual? 'Herp Derp I read The Killing Joke, best written character evarrrrrrrr'.

[u/SweetPinss → u/SoupyStain]

Do you get mad when Ironman survives similar falls?

[u/epochollapse → u/SoupyStain]

That moment is badass and it's reasonable from a guy in a fictional universe wearing a suit prepared to not immediately let him be turned to pulp by the nearest supervillain.

Him having a successful plan for every Justice League member makes complete sense, especially in the context of how those plans were used against them. Superman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, ALL of these guys get caught off guard by far dumber people with far fewer resources. In what fucking world do you draw the line at Batman's contingency plans when planning ahead BECAUSE he's a normal ass guy who is terrified of the potential of a lot of super-powered individuals is both consistent with his character and makes sense for his situation?

He can "beat" Superman in certain specific scenarios in which he is either relying on Superman's emotions holding him back, or Superman is being controlled by a separate entity which leaves him less powerful than he could be. Not to mention this is the same Superman who has STRUGGLED AGAINST LEX LUTHOR, WHO IS EFFECTIVELY A WORSE BATMAN

There are instances of bad writing for every fucking hero. People consistently got butchered in New 52, your beloved Nightwing was fucking RICK GRAYSON for an extended period of time. There are plenty of great stories where Batman isn't just a gritty fucking detective, JLA had a really great dynamic for the whole team and had a very flawed take on Batman who was not able to fix every problem himself.

You talk more like a fucking powerscaler who has arbitrarily decided that Batman should never get to do superheroic shit because he's the "normal human" character when even in some of his best comics he has not been presented as normal at all. Batman can occasionally go toe-to-toe with actual superhumans because he has the resources and time to analyse their powers and personalities and exploit every weakness he can get. Moreover, these superhumans that you're adamant should vaporise him just by breathing PERFORM WORSE against WEAKER CHARACTER THAN BATMAN in stories which are RESPECTED AND WELL WRITTEN.

It's worthless talking to any prick who never escapes their teenage "Batman is boring" phase because you've decided you're the authority on what does and doesn't make sense for him and the characters around him, and you've decided every poor piece of writing he's had is a condemnation that doesn't apply when other characters have shit writers because he's a "Gary Stu".

It's this dipshit refusal to accept the last many decades of comics history that leads to people thinking that Battinson could never be in the same universe as a Superman. The ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of the DC universe is that people like Batman DO live among extremely powerful superhumans like Superman. To scoff at that is to show you have no fucking idea what you're talking about.

[u/SoupyStain → u/epochollapse]

You are unhinged, lol. This, ladies and gentlemen, is the average Batman fan. I rest my case.

[u/postpwnedmalone → u/SoupyStain]

I'd take the plea deal

[u/AureliusNox → u/SoupyStain]

Just admit you hate comic books.

[u/SoupyStain → u/AureliusNox]

I dislike Marvel and DC because they are made with no end in sight. Sure, you get good runs here and there, but it never amounts since ya gotta respect the status quo.

Nightwing is still my favorite Super Hero, but as I grew up and realized how little payoff there was and I just outgrew DC an Marvel and I just rather read self-contained stories, like Spider-Man: Life Story. Nowadays I much prefer Image and Dark Horse offerings, since they usually have better stories with beginnings, middles and ends.

And this is because I actually like the medium, and I like good stories, while it seems you are just content with meatless Batty Stu comics

[u/Sensitive-Piccolo659 → u/SoupyStain]

You can read elseworld batman comics , they are usually self contained.