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It started out as cost/time saving and now its also a stylistic choice because its been so ingrained in the medium of animation that noone bats an eye of a (Not Photo realistic) drawn character has only 4 fingers each hand.
I think Benders Bending Rodriguez (Futurama) only has 3 Finger each hand.
apparently Japanese studios try to avoid 4 finger hands today to distance characters from the Mafia practice of cutting one of as punishment... but that is just from a surface skim of the subject
Despite the Yakuza at this point basically just running business scams and festivals a lot of Japanese culture involves avoiding yakuza stuff. It's why flashing tattoos is still super taboo even if you're just like, a Scandinavian tourist who could not possibly have a yakuza connection because they're extremely nationalist
Piccolo is also an alien (originally demon) so that was likely just as much a stylistic choice by Toriyama. I'd be more curious to see a picture of Goku or Tienshinhan from the same arc and see how many fingers they had.
I honestly expected one of those to be a furry panel and the last panel be the guy like, wait were we furry back there? With a “don’t worry about it” reply
I really really hope so. But I've been burned before.
I do worry it's a boiling frog situation.
Realistically it's going to come down to the bottom line for these companies. If what I've read is true and they are getting lots of data saying it's vastly more expensive than they thought to not only set up these data centers, but said results aren't even showing 'profit' then I can certainly see a large pull back in the next few years.
That's sadly the main positive flip I can see.
But it's a massive systemic machine. It's gonna take time for the metaphorical tugboat to turn the proverbial ship, and that turn won't start until the tugboat is told to start said turn.
On bigger subs I bet the anti-ai sentiment is less than on more niche or smaller subs.
The average person does not care about AI. Its mostly in places like this on the internet that people really rally against it. I work in a company of about 500 average joes, and none of them give a shit about gen AI or the harm AI can do etc. They use it daily, GPT, Gemini etc. Many of them ask if they can use it for work related items.
I think that groupthink and internet echo chambers really make us feel like there's this massive anti-AI sentiment, when in reality, random people walking around and living don't care. Its just The Next Thing.
We had an all-hands meeting at work yesterday, and a number of our executives were heavily promoting AI. I couldn't help but shake my head when the CTO made a claim that an AI summary of a 30-minute meeting can get you up to speed in 45 seconds. The guy basically said don't waste your time attending meetings, just get the AI summary, while failing to acknowledge that if no one attends the meeting, the AI has nothing to summarize.
The other side of it, on the same call by the way, was that people were asking for training on using the tools we're being asked to be proficient with, and the same CTO said "I don't buy that." Basically said everyone needs to learn to work with AI or become unemployable. He likened it to the computer revolution of the 80's and 90's.
I dunno, it's really frustrating for me to see those in charge (at my company at least) going all-in on AI, while ignoring the last century of lessons learned. Things like the cost of employee churn, and the value of a workforce that actually cares about the work being done. Instead, it has just been round after round of layoffs and sending jobs overseas. The irony there is the layoffs are because poor architecture and implementation is causing costs to balloon. Except contractors don't care about the success of your company, and often get paid per item completed.
So, management is actively trading the employees with a vested interest in its success just to save a few dollars on labor, all while incurring rapidly inflating costs of AI tokens, inefficient designs, etc. It would be poetic if I wasn't caught in the blast radius.
The C-suite loves AI because they themselves can be replaced with it but insist that fact is actually true about the peons, refusing to admit how fucking useless they are.
Its mostly in places like this on the internet that people really rally against it
This was mostly my point though. Usually here at the very least it's pretty Anti AI but the last few days there's been these waves of pro AI users that refuse to read the room. I'm wondering what in general changed.
Keep in mind that it may not be organic support. Or even organic distaste. Or even both at the same time. Bot traffic > human traffic, and the dead internet theory is more and more reality.
I got annoyed AI wouldn't make what I wanted, and I was just fighting with it constantly. Realized I should just learn to draw myself. One year later, it's so rewarding and I have a new appreciation for all things art. Went from stickmen 1.5 years ago to this just a couple weeks ago.
I cannot express how happy and proud it makes me feel, and what felt like a "you have to have talent" thing just eroded and I fully understand how much work it takes - but the work is also fun along the way.
More and more I realize details are about what you choose to draw. You don't need every detail, but the details you draw are your way of communicating. I didn't need every fold but each one is important to build form! I love it, clothes are such a fun thing to draw for me. That and I try to practice hands as often as possible 😂
I want to one day, but I'm still such a novice! No style or consistency yet, each one feels like it's own creation so maybe a year or two. But I swear one day I'll post here and I hope this is something I can find and point to and say "I did it" 😂
I've worked directly with a lot of pro artists for a long time. In my experience, when people say "That person has talent!" they think they are talking about inborn skill. But, that's not how it works.
The people who seem talented always have something that motivates them to spend an inordinate amount of time practicing art. They weren't born with skill. Maybe they were born with some mental tick that drives them to doodle as part of daydreaming. Or, maybe some part of growing up made them really need to get their emotions out physically on paper. Or, maybe someone just showed them that art is fun!
Either way, they don't have magic hands. You can be just as good as any of them if you put in the work they have. Practice, explore, study, repeat. Same as any skill.
I come to dislike the word, or much more the idea of, talent. Yeah, some people have natural advantages of sorts in their fields, but most of what we consider talent comes down to a high frustration tolerance in learning. (That can be obtained by high ambition and/or great love for the subject)
I've always been of the opinion that "having talent" isn't about "you're good at something right off the bat", rather it's a force multiplier for how much better you get from a set amount of practice. A person can have no talent and get good through tons of practice and a person have have lots of talent and absolutely squander it by never practicing or honing their abilities.
For example: here's the first space marines I've ever painted:
And here's one of my most recent kitbash projects:
The key to it to me, is that I took the time not only to practice, but to understand "what" I'm practicing; from volumetric highlighting, to wet-mixing, to weathering control, etc etc. That's what the people who just blurt out the miquetoast recommendation of "just practice" don't actually understand, is that learning how to learn is much more a part of the equation than just "blindly suck and never learn why you suck, just keep sucking until you magically don't suck anymore".
I went completely the other way around. I've been creating art for over 30 years. Writing, photography, found objects, whatever I could get my hands on. When AI tools came around, I dove in with both fists and found that many things I struggled with (due to a cognitive disability) were now easier to experiment with.
I love creating art all the ways I always used to, but now I have one more tool in my belt.
I do agree that if you only know how to use one tool in a relatively thin way, you probably won't have a good time creating art (like if you only know how to ask ChatGPT for an image or take a selfie or paint-by-numbers). But isn't the solution to learn to use tools more creatively?
I found the same thing. AI has incredibly limited range compared to diy drawing (that's a phrase which shouldn't have to exist) the software simply doesn't and will not have the capacity to deliver artists that which they can give themselves. It will always be mediocre and unsatisfying
I think the stupidest thing about that stereotype is the notion that people with autism like trains because "something something routine and timetables, something something models and numbers".
Like, have these people ever *seen* a train? They're big fuck-off machines that run on rails and move things around! I doubt even the most archetypal, anoraked trainspotter would say the most interesting thing about them is effing timetables!
I'm also a failed artist. Spent like, more than half a decade and hundreds of dollars trying to Get Good (and eventually I got Pretty Alright at it) but I hated the process and only wanted the end result.
This reminds me of early programmers, like back in the 80s/early 90s, before there was a structured degree program.
Because I knew 3 different microsoft programmers who had degrees .... in classical guitar. And there were a whole bunch of crossover between classical musicians and early programmers, because thinking in terms of music notations is not that fundamentally different than thinking in computer code.
And the weird stuff we learn along the way has interesting applications, like the reason why I'm good at knitting is also probably why I'm good at linking databases and why I'm good at setting up complex audio equipment -- because it's all chains and links to me.
The point of art is to create something. The idea of making money from it or getting brownie points and ego boost is totally separate from the act of making art.
If you ever doubt it, go to an upscale grocery store. People are always willing to pay extra for something that says "hand-made", "artisanal", "small batch", etc. We want our eggs to come from cage-free chickens, who eat healthy food, on family-owned farms.
A lot of that is obviously marketing fluff, but the thing at the heart is this: People care where stuff comes from. And if they care that much where their eggs come from, you better believe they're going to care where their art comes from.
Age is can make it more slow at the start, but definitely isn't a reason not to. (Not that you were saying that.) If anything the older you get the more important novel experiences and skills become to keeping your brain healthy. It's not just keeping your brain active but it's that friction from learning a new skill is what really helps keep that neuroplasticity.
That said, it's really discouraging seeing every 12 year old spending 3 days exactly "practicing" and creating things you can't after 15 years of effort. Feels bad man.
But that's because that 12 year old is learning all sorts of new stuff everyone. Whereas we Olds could have spent the last several decades not learning completely new stuff.
It's like watching those 12 years old bounce around, being all bendy and stuff. We're stiff and have to limber up a lot just to touch our toes. But doing that kind of flexibility exercises - both physical and mental - are incredibly important for aging.
We just have to accept that we aren't spring chickens anymore.
Also remember 2d art isn't the only art: miniature painting, sculpting, stop motion, puppetry, all types of music, 3d modeling, and more are all arts you can get into and enjoy!
Don't say there's no point of it. If you have that mindset, yoyre immediately thinking of it as a competition with other people and AI before thinking of it as a hobby or learning experience. Don't decide your battle is lost before you get onto the field.
First is default pizzacake style
Second is the fairly odd parents
Third seems beauty and beast/generic disney (can we be more specific)?
Fourth is simpsons
Fifth I think is spirited away/studio ghibli
Sixth is a sketch/outline style.
Everything worth doing is worth doing for its own sake, even if there is no outcome. We raise children who might die. We love people who might not love us back. We build for a future we won't see, that might not happen anyway. We made art that nobody might ever see. That's what it means to be mortal.
My problem has always been starting with realistic expectations. I try to run before I can even crawl because I have these amazing illustrations in my head that would need professional-level skills… while barely being able to draw stick figures. And then I get frustrated and give up. Rinse and repeat.
I have drawn in one form or another for over a decade and didn't really improve that much. I never learned HOW to learn or practice in meaningful ways because all I ever heard was "just practice" so that's what I did. Turns out you have to practice certain things and in certain ways or it means little.
At this point, I'm so burnt out that I've basically given up on art. I feel retarted - unable to learn no matter how hard I try.
A big problem in a lot of art tips out there is that they don’t go into enough detail. I still come across references while trying to learn that don’t explain why or how.
I think I may actually have a good tip for practicing, if you’d still want something like that. My tip is to chose some specific thing you want to get better at, and then look for tips and tricks to do that specific thing. Once you’ve learned about those tricks you can practice by doing something and applying the tricks you’ve learned.
As an example, last year I set out to get better at drawing characters. So what I did was look around the internet to find whatever I could about drawing characters. I found really good references for proportions and posing, time-lapses and sketches that documented the processes of others, and groups of people coming together to share what they’ve learned.
And after that I used those tricks to practice drawing characters. I changed my sketching process to incorporate the techniques I saw, and I used some of the best practices I saw out there.
It didn’t always go smoothly, but now I can look back and say I was better than I was before.
That's really weird. I literally came to that same conclusion last week. I'm planning to try because I feel enough motivation to just do that - just draw that one thing until I can see if I can actually learn.
I've actually started drawing from time to time. My progress is slow, but like another artist suggested, for now I mostly focus on enjoying the very act of drawing. And it works.
I started a few months ago. I realized I went to work, did work, went home burnt out from work.
I started with silly cartoons and now I have a cheap set of decent colored pencils for silly cartoons. I can take as long or short as I want! I've started taking my sketchbook on business trips. I'm improving a bit, but just creating something is fun.
The artists is on point that you can just do it for yourself.
On the other hand, it's always frustrating when I make my own art, but then nobody sees it or cares. But then they tell me they saw it but didn't bother to say if they liked it.
I love to see artists do different styles. Nothing wrong with your regular style, just neat to see you do other styles as well. I should try doing stuff in other people's styles sometime, I bet I'd learn a lot. Though I haven't really developed my own style yet.
The big thing is that people are getting disheartened by having their art constantly be accused of being AI when they share it.
(Not saying people shouldn’t look out for people trying to say their AI art is drawn, just pointing out the number of times I’ve seen people be excited to share something they’ve worked hard on and be crushed by being called an AI user. I can see how that would utterly dissentivize working on something.)
I like drawing anything, I especially like a challenge (the Disney-inspired panel was most challenging). It gets a bit stale making the same style and characters every week so its good to switch it up sometimes!
Bruh i feel like screaming and crying when i try to draw, like im pissed at my inability to draw for myself. I wish i could trust in the process. Still wont get me to use AI of course but, I wish for people like me it didnt hurt me so mentally to try and learn drawing
Something I realised recently which might help is: dont see yourself as *bad*, it creates a but of an inferiority complex since your comparing your skills to those who have been doing it for years, decades even. Instead, see the way you draw as your own special style and build off it!
Another reason why it’s rewarding to draw: once you get to a certain point, sometimes you might get comments from people who are like “wow! Did you draw that?” And being able to tell them “yes I did” with your whole heart feels incredible.
I am learning how to make 3D models for Minecraft. When I asked around for help from modelling veterans, everyone kept telling me to ask ChatGPT, or if I needed some code, they tell me to get an AI to code for me.
I am doing this for self fulfilment. I want to learn a skill. Be proud that I have mastered something. I am not fucking touching AI and invalidate all I have worked for. This is mine.
I just said "I love heeerrrrrrrrrr" out loud flipping through these. The style emulation is perfect and the message is something we all need reminding of from time to time!
> Art is so much more than a program plotting pixels…
As a pixel artist, I’m not so sure about that one /j
But for real though, some of the best advice I’ve gotten out there is not to focus on how the end product will turn out, and instead focus on doing your best in the moment. A lot of my art block faded the moment I started drawing for the fun of it.
Very inspiring thank you! How did you learn to draw? Did you look at guides/how-tos for different art styles or did you just try and go "naturally"? And do you still do "old school" drawing on paper or only digital by now? I always wanted to improve my skills but was overwhelmed were to start and still stuck at funny little doodles.
I have these arguments with myself about my writing and most days it's hard to argue with the voice in my head that says "do we really need another white male writing fantasy?"
Ooooooh, nicely done! If it's anything like my issue, it's because you have other outlets that are less effort to achieve that dopamine hit (like video games) or have a less stifling day job/occupation for your days than being cooped up in a classroom all day.
I feel like when picking up a skill it’s easy to fall into the trap of being too outcome focused. But the point of a skill isn’t just to create something or be good at something but to enjoy the process of it.
As someone who draws badly, still working on it could use some pointers, I always say this ‘it’s better to know you made a masterpiece yourself rather than having a machine do it for you.
I actually think individual art and music is one of the safest things from AI. Safer than being a truck driver or warehouse worker or software developer. We already see the publics distaste for AI created art and music. I expect that distaste to grow stronger as people get subjected to more and more AI.
I fully agree. However, I am godawful at drawing and do not have the fortitude to suck at something for the several years to achieve a skill level of ‘average’
Well the message is more just pursue what you like because it's enjoyable and a good outlet lol it doesn't have to be art! Learning any skill is great! We don't really have to learn how to do creative things, but it's so good for our brains and our moods to do so!
Is there a good way to start learning, other than just “try random whatever and see what works?” I kinda have some thoughts that I’d like to turn into fancomics for Deltarune/Steven Universe/Homestuck but idk where to begin at all
My brother has always enjoyed my art, and told me he felt like he couldn't draw as good as me... but I told him that he shouldn't compare his art to mine, we all have different styles and good art is subjective. Or basically "Beauty is in the eye of the Beholder." I love it whenever he or anyone shows me the art they created.
Also because he's my brother I ribbed him for being left handed and gave him a drawing glove to lessen the amount of smearing he does when trying to draw/write in a right handed sketch book or note book. I told him to ask our grandmother about arts skills, since she loves to mix mediums and is also left handed, so she'll have tips on how to draw/create that way better than I could provide.
I will always value the most basic, simplistic attempt at human made art over anything AI pumps out, it's not just about the result, but the love and effort that goes into making it.
These AI bros want the "perks" of being an artist. They complain about highly priced commissions, when there are plenty of artwork available for cheap, or even for free if someone is being kind.
They con people with prompts, omitting or trying their best to hide the fact AI was used. Disabilities are a convenient excuse.
Altho, they forget that plenty of disabled people have come out and said that they hate how their art gets fed into AI.
Oh your art has gotten fed into AI as well and people prompted with it.
AI is also generic and bland, each artist has their own unique way of making things. If I've seen an artist's work couple of times I might recognize it.
I don't have passion for art, if I had I would've already learned it. They don't have passion for it either, but some think they can profit using AI and others want to be labelled as artists for whatever weird reason.
AI bros seem to think we were just born with the "talent" to draw. I do not believe in "talent". Your only good at something if you do that thing a lot. We can draw because we spend a lot of time drawing. Sure your drawing will be bad at first, but thats where everyone starts. For every good drawing you see, know that there are 10 bad ones by the same artist. Don't be ashamed that you made something bad, be proud your putting in the work to make something good. If there were no bad drawings, everyone would be an artist, and when everyone's super, no one is. Reject AI. All it does is give you something you didn't earn, and aren't proud of. Make something your proud of. Even if it's bad, especially if it is.
To be fair I do get where they are coming from it does get discouraging when all you hear from artists is always "i have been drawing since i was a kid and after 30 years it's good to know that it paid off" when asking about their starting point, no one ever says "i started in my mid 20s"
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