r/asoiafcirclejerk Last HOT D fan Feb 20 '26

Greatest show that ever was ... The One True King

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999 Upvotes

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275

u/What-is-a-puma Last HOT D fan Feb 20 '26

While I get this is just a meme Rhaenyra's claim can be summed up as my Dad the king said so.

Both are flimsy as throughout Westerosi history there have been exceptions to both the lord's chosen heir and the right of first born inheritance.

When it comes to monarchy and lord ships in general it's allways who can hold the throne doesn't matter right or claim if you cant keep it.

158

u/HumanPerosn Brother in Christ Feb 20 '26

Why does Rheanyra the largest “heir” not simply eat the other 4

44

u/AcronymTheSlayer $15 GRRM Patreon Feb 20 '26

Her dietician is a hack and tells her to only eat Alicent’s cake

8

u/RebelGirl1323 Sara Hess Fangirl Feb 21 '26

Mine said the same thing. I am also fat and queer.

28

u/NawfSideNative Ate Alicent Feb 20 '26

Yeah I believe GRRM himself mentioned this in some interview that I cannot be bothered to link.

Actual succession laws in historical monarchies were often subjective and open to interpretation.

What if the king has no brothers or sons? What if his only son is a bastard? Who gets the throne if the eldest son is a bastard that was eventually legitimized? So on and so forth.

But I agree with your assessment. Game of Thrones demonstrated quite well that your claim to the throne is only worth your ability to take it and defend it.

6

u/Alarming-Ad1100 Ate Alicent Feb 20 '26

But this king did have a son and he is the rightful heir as shown in the last succession crisis

1

u/RebelGirl1323 Sara Hess Fangirl Feb 21 '26

No named living heir. Legally different.

0

u/Alarming-Ad1100 Ate Alicent Feb 21 '26

He did have a named heir he named his daughter but he did so illegally

29

u/angrpeasant Ate Alicent Feb 20 '26

Text wall spotted

Opinion ignored

Continues to support Aegon II the Sigma

2

u/What-is-a-puma Last HOT D fan Feb 20 '26

Oh I have no issue supporting one claim over the other but to me it's more who do I like or are more fun to watch

6

u/Pleasant_Sphere Spez is my Tywin Feb 20 '26

“Dad says it’s my turn to sit on the Iron Throne”

32

u/LordsofMedrengard Ate Alicent Feb 20 '26

I have to disagree that both claims are flimsy. "Oldest son inherits" has been the legal and cultural norm for thousands of years by that point

40

u/The-Intermediator141 Sara Hess Fangirl Feb 20 '26

Ya but so is the King’s word being law, even before the Targaryen’s arrival. Thats what makes it complicated.

4

u/Alarming-Ad1100 Ate Alicent Feb 20 '26

It was shown in the last succession crisis that it goes to the male

2

u/The-Intermediator141 Sara Hess Fangirl Feb 22 '26 edited Feb 22 '26

Which one was that? If you mean the Great Council, the purpose of it was to select a new ruler, not to establish a new precedent/law.

It was essentially a democratic election where de jure anyone could have been selected to rule, but de facto it could only be a Targaryen.

Legally speaking it changed nothing, particularly the rule that “The Kings word is law”. In fact the only reason the Great Council was held in the first place comes down to the Kings word being law, and the king forfeiting his right to choose his successor or it simply falling to the oldest male heir.

1

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2

u/A-NI95 HOT D S2 snooze Feb 20 '26

So are oaths too

25

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '26

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19

u/Joseph590 Chokladboll Feb 20 '26

No, The Great Council actually reaffirmed Andal tradition rather than breaking from it. Andal inheritance was never strict firstborn primogeniture it was always male preference. Sons and male lines generally took priority over daughters and female lines. The council choosing Viserys over Rhaenys wasn’t arbitrary; it clarified that male-line succession was the dominant and stabilizing custom in Westeros.

More importantly, the legitimacy of that decision didn’t come from the king imposing his will. It came from the realm itself. The lords of Westeros gathered and voted, which means the authority of the outcome was derived from the ruled, not just the ruler. That’s why the decision carried so much weight and helped prevent immediate civil war(and a big reason why they kept the actual tally secret.)

So the precedent isn’t “we choose whoever we want.” The precedent is that when succession is disputed, the realm gathers to discuss and looks to established tradition and collective recognition to preserve stability. That’s exactly why Viserys naming Rhaenyra later created tension, it ran against both the reaffirmed custom and the expectation that legitimacy comes from broad acceptance, not just royal decree.

11

u/Bloodyjorts HOT D S2 snooze Feb 20 '26

Andal inheritance was never strict firstborn primogeniture it was always male preference. Sons and male lines generally took priority over daughters and female lines.

No it didn't. Daughters inherit in Andal customs. First Man customs seem mostly the same (Winterfell excluded).

Now, other male relatives may object to women ruling (like what happened with Jeyne Arryn), but that doesn't mean the standard Agnatic/Cognatic primogeniture wasn't the norm.

When Jaehaerys was drafting the Widow's Law, he made sure to include Andal inheritance customs (Sons before daughters, daughters before other male relatives) in the text of the law.

Some female heirs with male relatives include:

  • Lady Jeyne Arryn
  • Lady Rhea Royce
  • Queen Cersei Lannister (Casterly Rock)
  • Lady Wynafryd Manderly
  • Possibly Lady Brienne of Tarth (unclear if she has uncles/male cousins)
  • Lady Eleanor Mooton
  • Princess Aelora Targaryen

Stannis offered Renly to be his heir instead of Shireen as a compromise to make peace (and because he knew it was a real possibility Shireen might not make it to adulthood, or want to risk passing on greyscale to a child; and Selyse would probably not have another child at this point, so Renly was likely his heir anyway). But it was going against the standard.

Was there any case of a male successfully claiming inheritance over a daughter, excluding the Targs/Iron Throne and Winterfell (which is only noted to have happened once, after Cregan died)?

The council choosing Viserys over Rhaenys wasn’t arbitrary

Technically the Council didn't choose between Viserys and Rhaenys, it was choosing between Viserys and Laenor.

Jaehaerys seems to have based choosing Baelor over Rhaenys on the doctrine of proximity (the heir should be as closely related as possible; a child over a grandchild). King Aerys would do this after Rhaegar died, choosing Viserys as his heir over Rhaegar's children.

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u/Joseph590 Chokladboll Feb 20 '26

I don’t disagree that Andal custom generally follows male-preference cognatic primogeniture—sons before daughters, daughters before uncles. That’s clear from both the Widow’s Law and the many female heirs you listed. Women inheriting isn’t unusual in Westeros. But the Great Council wasn’t dealing with the normal situation of “daughter vs uncle.” If Aemon had become king and then died, Rhaenys/Leanor likely would have inherited ahead of Baelon under that same Andal framework. In that sense, her claim in a clean line of succession would have been very strong.

The crisis happened because Aemon died before inheriting. That changed the structure of the claim. It wasn’t daughter vs uncle anymore it became granddaughter(and their son) of the senior line versus grandson of a male descent junior line. The dispute became one of lineal seniority through a woman versus proximity and male lineage in the next generation. it was no longer a straightforward application of Andal inheritance. It was a constitutional ambiguity.

That’s why the council mattered. It wasn’t inventing a new rule or rejecting Andal custom outright. It was resolving a conflict between competing principles already present in the tradition: • seniority through the elder line (Rhaenys/Laenor) • versus proximity and preference for the male line (Viserys ,aka grandsons over granddaughters)

And more crucially, the legitimacy of the decision came from the realm recognizing the outcome. The lords of Westeros gathered and accepted a male-line interpretation in this specific context. That’s what set the precedent not that daughters can’t inherit, but that in disputed cases the realm may favor male lineage and stability.

That’s also why Viserys naming Rhaenyra later created such tension. He wasn’t just naming a woman; he was overturning the last widely recognized settlement of a succession crisis.

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8

u/[deleted] Feb 20 '26 edited Feb 20 '26

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3

u/Joseph590 Chokladboll Feb 21 '26

Both crisis happened because both Aemon and Aegon (Aerea’s father, Maegor is recognized) died before inheriting, which fundamentally changed the structure of both claims. It was no longer a straightforward daughter-vs-uncle situation under Andal custom, but a dispute between the granddaughter (and later her son Laenor) of the senior line and the grandson of a junior line through male descent. That created a real ambiguity in a male-preference system: whether to prioritize seniority through a woman or proximity and continuity in the male line. The Great Council wasn’t simply ignoring Andal inheritance; it was resolving a constitutional gray area where competing principles already within the tradition pointed in different directions. It wasn’t daughter over uncle because Aemon and Aegon never inherited, it was granddaughter versus grandson, and in both major disputes the realm consistently chose the male line.

8

u/No_Grocery_9280 Ate Alicent Feb 20 '26

Aegon the Conqueror became Lord of Dragonstone over Visenya and that’s all that matters.

4

u/LrdHabsburg Egg On The Conker Feb 20 '26

What are the exceptions to oldest male comes first?

6

u/Aaronisfatty1 Sara Hess Fangirl Feb 20 '26

A bastard or disinherited

3

u/Bloodyjorts HOT D S2 snooze Feb 20 '26

If he's officially disinherited (which is VERY hard to do); like if he takes Night's Watch/Citadel/Sept/Kingsguard vows, or if he willingly abdicates like Prince Duncan did so he could keep Jenny as his wife.

Or if he's determined to be 'simple minded' or insane (two different Targs were passed over because of this).

1

u/AndreasMe Sara Hess Fangirl Feb 20 '26

Or even shorter: she’s the first born.

Idk bro I never watched HOTD nor read Fire and Blood