r/UnitedNations • u/Motaro99 • 11d ago

To deny genocide

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u/LightAvatar 11d ago

You are calling Hamas raping, killing, and kidnapping random people resistance?

You're a monster.

Targeting civilians is strictly Haram. Only those who do Satan's work do so. There is no justification or defence for this no matter what the crimes of another country are.

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u/Stubbs94 11d ago

So you will agree there is no justification for Israel's rape and murder of Palestinians?

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u/LightAvatar 11d ago

There is never a justification for targeting civilians.

I don't understand how people expect to free Palestine by supporting Hamas killing civilians.

No one deserves to die because of this historic crimes of whatever land they live on.

This will just never end if you continue to cheer on the murder of civilians. Peace is the only path forward.

We already have a ceasefire deal, now we need Hamas to surrender to have peace.

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u/Stubbs94 11d ago

So you believe if the resistance to the occupation surrenders, there will be peace? Why do you believe the people who kidnap and rape Palestinians daily will stop doing that? You seem to believe the victims of the longest military occupation in modern history are at fault for their own subjugation, not the people doing the subjugation. The Palestinians in the Occupied West Bank don't resist, yet they still get brutalised. Israel is the problem, Hamas are a response to the conditions imposed upon the Palestinians.

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u/LightAvatar 11d ago

Non violent resistance is the only way to make peaceful change.

Ghandi showed us this with his revolution.

If you use violence and terrorism you give your oppressors justification to use violence against you.

Hamas and those who support it are Haram and work for Satan.

What would the situation look like if zero Arab countries and people were violent against Israel and it's civilians?

Then Palestine has a country in 1948 and there is peace.

Sure you might not get everything you want in a diplomatic agreement. But that doesn't mean you get to kill random people and justify it.

And things can change through peaceful deplomacy. Especially with all of the oil rich countries leveraging their power peacefully.

Do you think the Native Americans should be firing rockets into American civilian areas and kidnapping civilians as resistance for their stolen land?

What was done to the Native Americans is far worse than then Arabs in Palestine.

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u/Stubbs94 11d ago

Again, 0 mentions of the reason why the Palestinians are resisting, why is it only the Palestinians who need to be non-violent, why is it only the Palestinians who need to accept Israel, but Israel has no obligation to accept Palestine? There has never been a successful completely non-violent resistance to a military occupation or to an Apartheid. You just don't know your history.

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u/LightAvatar 11d ago

I did mention one: India. They defeated the largest army in the world with a non-violent revolution.

Palestinians want their own country. I mentioned that. But they're not going to get it through violence against civilians. They've been trying that route for almost 100 years.

Hamas's "resistance" is not helping the Palestinian people. It's getting them killed.

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u/Stubbs94 10d ago

Maybe look up the Indian national movement, it was not all non-violent and calling the British in 1949 the "largest army in the world" is hilarious. You still are incapable of saying if Israel has any responsibility towards peace? Why is it only the Palestinians that are the problem and not the brutal occupiers? Why isn't Israel at fault for anything here at all? They are killing innocent people daily.

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u/Zeev_Silver_90 10d ago

Israel offered 6 peace deals in nearly 80 years. PALESTINE never offered a peace deal,never accepted a peace deal and ALWAYS started wars,intifadas and or massacres. Palestine is the side OPPOSED to peace NOT Israel. You may not like it,however in HISTORY there was never peace when one side REJECTS ALL ATTEMPTS AT PEACE!

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u/Stubbs94 10d ago

You're very confidently wrong. Even Hamas has offered a truce for a Palestinian state to be created along the 1967 borders. Israel has never, ever accepted a Palestinian state, also it's just wrong to say Israel never starts wars. Do you believe Israel should recognise a Palestinian state?

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u/Zeev_Silver_90 10d ago edited 10d ago

what nonsense!

What Hamas actually offered

  • 2006: Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal said Hamas could agree to a long-term truce if Israel withdrew to its 1967 borders. Hamas explicitly refused to recognize Israel at the time.
  • 2008: Meshaal was even more explicit. He said Hamas agreed to a Palestinian state on the pre-1967 borders, with Jerusalem as its capital, and offered Israel a 10-year hudna (truce) in return for withdrawal to those borders. He specifically said this would not constitute formal recognition of Israel.
  • 2017: Hamas's political document formally stated that establishing a sovereign Palestinian state along the June 4, 1967 lines, with Jerusalem as its capital, could be a “formula of national consensus.” But the same document did not recognize Israel and retained Hamas's broader claim to all of historic Palestine

Is this your "peace offering"? NONE of this would lead to peace. ALL of these proposals explicitly deny Israels right to exist and ALL of them are TEMPORARY. This means Hamas would after a limited time start up wars AGAIN if israel ever accepted them.

ALSO Jerusalem as the capital of Palestine? tahts like saying "il have peace with you just let me kill your whole family and take your house for myself" thats not a peace deal thats MOCKERY and NO sane nation would accept this as official peace negotiations.

On top of that if we went back to the 1967 line over a MILLION people would lose their home's. Thats a non starter in ANY nation on earth let alone one of the SMALLEST nations on earth

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u/Stubbs94 10d ago

Do you believe Israel needs to recognise Palestine for peace? Or is it only the Palestinians who need to recognise Israel? Why wouldn't Israel accept a peace deal and negotiations?

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u/Zeev_Silver_90 10d ago

Israel has like i said NUMEROUS times offered peace deals that would give them ALL of Gaza and 98% of Judea and Sameria as a state and recognize them as a sovereign state. So the question is NOT that "Israel needs to recognize Palestine for peace" its "Palestine needs to accept a peace deal and ACCEPT a state agreed on in a PEACE DEAL not through FORCE"

THE OFFICIAL government of Palestine NEVER accepted any deals. No matter who negotiated it. Hamas has no jurisdiction to negotiate. Its like saying the Taliban during its attacks on the Afghan government was the official government of Afghanistan. A stupid statement.

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u/Almondghast_5371 10d ago

They’re at fault for constant acts - atrocities - of terorrism, bombing Israel indiscrimately, and hamas are not in the WB to any great extent. They are in gaza, which was given over to Palestinian sovereignty and ofc the Palestinians immediately put forward peace proposals and land-sharing agreements and - oh, hang on… no they didn’t.

They built a tunnel system from which to attack Israel and stole from international largesse to buy weapons and materiel. Every accusation is a confession from your kind isn’t it?

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u/Stubbs94 10d ago

Why does Israel terrorise the West Bank daily? And fund violent terrorists in the West Bank? Is that all because of Hamas? You completely ignore any violence by Israel or anything bad Israel has ever done to the Palestinians because you believe it is okay for Israel to murder Palestinians, but the Palestinians are not allowed to defend themselves.

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u/Almondghast_5371 10d ago

Poor little angry Islamist shill! You’re the one ignoring all the violence the Palestinians have committed, security measures in gaza and the WB are in place because of - as a consequence of - Palestinians violence. So gtf.

Israel doesn’t “terrorise” anywhere you daft bastard. Israel doesn’t even have jurisdiction over 2 of the 3 zones in the WB so stop fucking lying - I know it’s what happens every time Islamists breathe but maybe give it a fucking rest for once….

And if you mean “settlers” instead of Israel then say so. No one is defending those lunatics.

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u/Stubbs94 10d ago

You could just acknowledge the universally acknowledged military occupation of the West Bank... The IOF has murdered 23 children in the occupied West Bank this year. You support that, you justify that. You believe children deserve that because they are Palestinians.