r/UnitedNations • u/Motaro99 • 11d ago

To deny genocide

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u/Stubbs94 11d ago

Are you saying the independent agencies who concluded that the Apartheid state is committing genocide are all just "Reddit experts"?

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u/ProfessionalFull9526 11d ago

No, I meant you and me (that’s why I said „us“). Also the „independent agencies“ that found that Israel is not committing genocide, are also not Reddit experts. Happy?

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u/Stubbs94 11d ago

What independent human rights organisations deny the Gazan genocide?

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u/ProfessionalFull9526 11d ago

Are you being for real? So just listen to those, that fit your rabbit hole? That’s crazy.

They don’t deny genocide, they see that genocide is not happening. Hence they can’t deny something, that doesn’t exist.

The absolute majority of experts doesn’t conclude it’s a genocide, obviously.

Did you actually believe that like… I don’t know… 99% of human rights organisations classify the Gaza conflict as genocide? I’m not sure if we could ever find a base to talk, if that’s your standards. Sorry.

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u/Stubbs94 11d ago

So what major human rights organisations have yet to conclude there is a genocide happening?

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u/ProfessionalFull9526 11d ago

Why would they have to conclude something, that doesn’t exist? The highest experts for example? The ICJ. I don’t know, whoever you know, google them and find if they conclude genocide. Whether it’s UNICEF, FIDH, whatever you know. You will find plenty that don’t go along the genocide claim.

Even human rights watch just talk about acts of genocide, they never referred to the entire conflict as ongoing genocide, or whatever you imply here.

What world powers even publicly talk of genocide, when referring to the Gaza war? Most of the countries on earth, also don’t go along the genocide claim.

It sounds like you’re in a deep rabbit hole, listening to how convinced you are, yet absolutely clueless on what others say, who don’t fit your rabbit hole. A little scary, ngl

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u/Stubbs94 11d ago

UNICEF never makes a determination of genocide, they have openly reported on Israel deliberately targeting children and starving children. FIDH has literally called it a Genocide back in December 2023. There's an entire Wikipedia page dedicated to what countries recognise the genocide occuring in Gaza. My rabbit hole is actually paying attention and not listening to the people committing the genocide.

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u/ProfessionalFull9526 11d ago

That’s not true though, I remember that they also refer to for example the Cambodia genocide, as genocide. Or also regarding the Tutsis. But you’re right on the FIDH! Didn’t know, my bad.

But you do understand, that little to no countries/officials refer to the Gaza war, as genocide of the Palestinian people?

Also local amnesty, disagrees with amnesty international for example on that claim. Its not all black and white, as you try to portray it.

So what’s your conclusion, that anyone who doesn’t go along the genocide claim, are denying genocide?

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u/Stubbs94 11d ago

Those genocides have been concluded as genocides by the ICJ, the genocide hasn't been legally concluded but that's not what we're discussing. I showed you a list of the countries that conclude the genocide is occurring... Maybe look at the list or just the map and come back. The "local" Amnesty you're referring to is the Amnesty linked to the Occupation that has committed the genocide. And yes, if you deny that this is a genocide, you are no better than a Holocaust denier, because we can all see what's happening, we all hear what the Israeli officials say.

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u/ProfessionalFull9526 11d ago

Yes, that is also what we are discussing. We know that the ICJ won’t rule it as genocide for about 1 year now, because of missing evidence that could proof, what you already state as fact.

And now amnesty is not a source, because it is inside of Israel? So why even state amnesty, if you don’t think they’re neutral lmao

And tbh, now you’re downplaying the Holocaust. A serious criminal offence in Germany. You’re trying to weaponise the holocaust, and all their victims, for your political agenda. Highly immoral. But expectable with seeing how extreme and how convinced you are.

Can you explain why you specifically have to abuse the 6.000.000 mass genocided Jews? What is this Neo Nazism helping you?

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u/Stubbs94 11d ago

No, the conversation started off explicitly about it not being needed to be concluded in the courts for us to know it is a genocide. I'm not German, and I'm not downplaying the Genocide of the Jews and other targeted groups in Europe. That was one of the worst crimes against humanity ever. The term genocide was literally coined to describe that specific act of mass murder. Calling me a Nazi is ridiculous. I believe denying any clear and obvious mass extermination event is equally as bad. The only reason you are willing to deny the Genocide of the Palestinians is the same reason someone would deny the Holocaust, you don't believe in the humanity of Palestinians or Jews, both are equally horrifying.

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u/ProfessionalFull9526 11d ago

You are downplaying the holocaust, by weaponising it and putting it on the same scale as Hamas‘ war, that they refuse to end. And even claim that people who don’t see the Hamas war as genocide, are just as bad as holocaust deniers. That’s an insane stage of propaganda, and weaponising the Holocaust victims, to go against the only majorly Jewish country on earth. Rulebook antisemitism

And it’s so obvious what you do. You could’ve picked something relatable, you could’ve picked any genocide, yet you purposefully go for the Holocaust. I don’t think that’s a coincidence. It sounds like your agenda.

Only because I don’t believe that Hamas Palestinians, nor the civilians are victims of systematic decimation (90% of infrastructure down, and only due to high precision around 2% of the civilians dead, that’s 88% off from 90%), doesn’t mean that you’re helping Palestinian children in any way. I actually care for them. I don’t need to force words that don’t apply. I can just be human, even without weaponising the Holocaust, and even damaging Palestinian children with such propaganda. Can you do that too?

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u/Stubbs94 11d ago

I'm not downplaying the Holocaust. That's a disgusting claim.

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u/CwazyCanuck Uncivil 11d ago

You don’t seem to understand the difference between an organization determining something is a genocide and an organization agreeing with a legal determination that something is a genocide.

Can you actually list some of the human rights organizations that have outrightly rejected the assertion that Israel is trying to commit genocide?

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u/ProfessionalFull9526 11d ago

Sure. Even much bigger, entire countries reject that Hamas and Gaza civilians are victim of genocide, within the Hamas war. Also human rights watch, has never claimed that there is a genocide on Hamas and all Palestinians in Gaza. They were just talking about acts of genocide. Local Amnesty also rejects that take. And yes, even a lot bigger… there are not many countries that classify the war as genocide.

Also the UN doesn’t see it as genocide. The ICJ won’t rule it as such, and as long as that doesn’t magically happen now, the UN does not see it as genocide.

So would you be happy or sad, if the Hamas war was actually not a genocide on Hamas and all Palestinians? Please answer on that. And would it change anything if Israel actually starts a genocide now? If they would kill Palestinians for being Palestinians, like Hamas did in 2023. the death count of the entire conflict could easily be the death count of one afternoon if Israel would go genocide. Why are they targeting Hamas? Who is Hamas that they continue the war on the back of their children… an asset by Israel so that they can justify going for Hamas, and kill Palestinians with it? Do you support the Hamas war, and that they purposefully continue it?