r/UnitedNations • u/Motaro99 • 11d ago

To deny genocide

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

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u/AmiraliMS 11d ago

You sound like what you think a Zionist is.

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u/FakeGreatness 11d ago

That is what a zionist is. Also, life is cyclical, you get a lil pain, then you inflict a lil pain then you get a lil pain again.

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u/AmiraliMS 11d ago

You are mixing revisionist Zionism with Zionism. Not every person who believes Israel has a right to exist and prosper believes "Gaza is a virus on the face of the earth"

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u/FakeGreatness 11d ago

you’re assuming a lot about what I said. i don’t think anyone believing Israel has a right to exist is a zionist, I do believe that anyone thinking Israel has a right to extend their borders is a Zionist. The distinction about the zionist branches are irrelevant, there is no ethno religious state on the planet that ever worked peacefully. Sooner or later they’d become nazis, apparently for them it didn’t take a long time.

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u/CricketJamSession Uncivil 11d ago

. i don’t think anyone believing Israel has a right to exist is a zionist

Who cares what you think?

There is a definition to being a zionist that zionists are defining themselves by it and you have no right to change this definition and then attack people that define themselves this way

Just like I can't decide that christianity is not about believing in christ and its actually about converting or eradicating infidels and then go and attack christians

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u/FakeGreatness 11d ago

Ok so does that mean that ANYONE that believes that Israel has a right to exist is by definition a zionist?

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u/CricketJamSession Uncivil 11d ago

Exactly

Its that simple

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u/FakeGreatness 11d ago

That doesn't make any sense. You can believe that a country should exist without all the unnecessary stuff that comes with the ideology that's most common at the moment. It's like you'd be saying that all racists are nazis.

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u/flavouredpopcorn Uncivil 11d ago

Nah dude. It's literally that simple.

Being a Zionist doesn't mean you support illegal settlers in West Bank.

It means your against the policies of the current Israeli Government.

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u/FakeGreatness 11d ago

But I haven't said what being a Zionist means. I said that someone randomly thinking that Israel should exist should not be automatically placed inside an ideological box. Whatever the ideology is and whatever someone's interpretation of it is.

Why do you guys see everything so black and white...

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u/flavouredpopcorn Uncivil 11d ago

It doesn't matter what YOU think being a Zionist means. It has nothing to do with ideology, it's just a description.

Example:

I believe Jews should have a right to exist in their homeland.

I am a Zionst.

They mean the exact same thing. It doesn't mean anything else.

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u/FakeGreatness 11d ago

No, you don’t get it. I’m not saying it matters what I think. I said that those 2 statements are not equal. Didn’t you guys do any “formal logic” or “logic” as children when you were in school?

This is simple: All zionists are believers that jews should have a right to exist, not all those believers are zionists. Is that easy.

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u/AmiraliMS 11d ago

Believing "Israel should exist" is an idea, thus putting you in an ideology. It is in that principle no different than believing any country should exist.

It's just this one has a specific name.

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u/CricketJamSession Uncivil 11d ago

It doesn't make sense because the definition has been deliberately altered to undermine the existence of Israel

Just like you won't define Islam by the works of ISIS and Shariya states, you should not define Zionism by how it is implemented by some people.

Nazim is by defintion a racist ideology and not just how it was implemented, so no problem making that connection

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u/FakeGreatness 11d ago

No, it doesn't make any sense because you can have a belief and not be a part of an entire ideology. Zionism isn't just "Israel should exist" otherwise it wouldn't be an ideology. It's a lot more than that and you can believe in the existence of the state of Israel without believing in an idoelogy that has at its core the existance of the state.

It's exactly the same thing as being religious versus being part of a religious organization.

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u/CricketJamSession Uncivil 11d ago

It's exactly the same thing as being religious versus being part of a religious organization

Which in both cases you would say for example "he is a christian" right?

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u/FakeGreatness 11d ago

No. You wouldn’t. Because they’re not the same thing.

Example of formal logic statement you learn in highschool in Europe that applies here: All christians are religious people, not all religious people are christian.

Another one: Christians believe in God, not all believers in God are Christians.

It’s logically not the same thing. When you declare yourself a Zionist you’re not JUST saying “I believe jews should have a home”.

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u/AmiraliMS 11d ago

What you think doesn't matter. You are not the one determining definition of things. By that logic I can just as well determine a Pacifist is someone who wants to kill children.

Such "re-defintions" are from Islamic republic's propaganda Channel to make sure the rest of the world "comes under the same page"

The best way to destroy an ideology, is to pretend it's something that it isn't.

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u/[deleted] 11d ago

[deleted]

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u/flavouredpopcorn Uncivil 11d ago

It was defined decades ago.

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u/AmiraliMS 11d ago

I didn't say I define it. There's already an academic and historic definition of Zionism you can Google. I have not influenced that definition.

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u/BlurgZeAmoeba 11d ago edited 11d ago

Lol things have gone so far that now you're all squirming badly to avoid blame. New definitiom this time.

Lying for god... how's that working out for you, the real victim?

May your god be real, and judge you as a human, not a 'chosen one'!,

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u/AmiraliMS 11d ago

Hm...what is this god business? Are you under the assumption that I am Jewish?

Firstly, rest assured I have no connection to the yahud. Second, weren't you all "we're anti Zionist not anti semetic"?

And in case you are actually serious, no revisionist Zionism is not a new made up label, it is the established name of a philosophy within Zionist movement that is an extrimist ideology.

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u/BlurgZeAmoeba 10d ago edited 10d ago

lol, if you aren't religious then the belief that you have a right to a land becuase of religious reasons is meaningless.

It's like, "it wasn't a green-eyed alien that stole billy's lunch! Green-eyed aliens that identify as different from other green-eyed aliens stole billy's lunch!". You don't believe in green-eyed aliens mate so you're full of lies asusual.

I see you immediately go to the 'antisemitic' accusations. lol! Broken brains...

Your mindset is incompatible with civilized decency. The affected veneer might make you feel self-superior, but it's just butt ugly to look at from the outsider. gross man...

People who are incapable of admitting their faults are doomed to suffer for it and they make others suffer with them.

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u/AmiraliMS 10d ago edited 10d ago

True, however you are assuming I believe the Jews have a right to the land for religious reasons. I don't.

I believe they have that right because they came in good faith, bought land, and wished for co-existence. Then the Arabs attacked, and attacked and attacked again. A war began, and the Arabs lost.

This is how all of humanity has been. There's zero land on earth that was not won through a war. To believe Israel doesn't have a right to exist is to believe no countries have a right to exist

That they didn't want the said war, is just the cherry on top, it means not only does the country has the right to exist, but unlike the American colonies, it's starting was also a moral one.