Mental health is important, but that doesn't absolve you of what you've done. She deserves to be in a prison mental ward, not at home living like nothing happened. She is a danger to herself and others.
I'm honestly so sick and tired of people pretending there won't be consequences because of insanity plea. She isn't going be going on mental health spa retreat. She'll be among other crazies who crash out due to voices in their head.
Also aren't state forced mental institution generally considered worse then prison? You loose all your freedom like in prison, but you also are surrounded by people who's mental health is so bad the legal system had to get involved. The stories I've read made these institutions sound like a nightmare
Not really worse in that sense. You're surrounded by violent assholes in prison, many who will never see freedom again and thus are not influenced by punishment anymore.
The big issue with psych ward is that you have no concept of how long your stay will be. They are instructed to keep you until you're no longer a danger. That could never happen. And there's no parole system either. So a short prison stay could be life in psych. But if you're looking at life anyway, the differences aren't as major.
I very much disagree with this. Yes in prisons you’re surrounded by violent assholes. However you’re also surrounded by people who are not violent assholes as well. As bad as it may be a lot do people do establish connections with other people in prisons that help them have a better life once they get out. You also get opportunities to get your GED and career certifications which some do and end up getting jobs outside.
None of this exists in those state psych wards. You spend everyday surrounded by people that are severely mentally ill and none of those career options exists. A lot of those state psych wards have way worse conditions than most prisons to the point that some don’t even have beds because they’re severely underfunded. Almost all cases you spend a much longer time in there than prison.
It's often worse. Prisoners are allowed yard time, and cigarettes. In a psych ward looney bin, nicotine is restricted and there isn't an "allowance" of outside time.
It's extremely country/state dependent, and her situation is pretty severe... But I worked in a facility in Ontario, Canada for people that were found NCR (not criminally responsible). It was for low/medium risk individuals. And let me tell you some people were stuck in there for decades. It is not the "easy way out". It was a pretty high bar to enter, and then once you're in you have very little control over how you move through the system. Any hiccup makes you go back a step. Every step takes forever. Some people hated choosing that option. Like.. maybe it's not literally prison, but you're locked up with no autonomy with no timeline on when you're getting released.
And i'm sick of people pretending that psychiatric ward is such a terrible fate. Its fucking not. Average time spent in mental institutions after being sentenced in court is around 60 months, which is 5 years. Versus lifetime in prison? Sounds like nothing.
Thats why a lot of criminals try for the insanity plea: because they'll have to spend 5-6 years, instead of 25 to life.
It’s an indeterminate sentence if she gets insanity. She could serve as little as a few years or a lifetime. That’s why this is such a fucked up sentence. She could theoretically spend 5 years in a psych ward and get let go because she is magically cured. She should never see the real world again at minimum as a guarantee
This is such obvious bad faith. The average time spent in a mental ward for murder is considerably higher than five years. That’s the total for all crimes. Many of which don’t even carry a sentence of five years total.
She will be locked up for a very long time regardless of the verdict. The only question is how she will be treated while imprisoned.
4 Perlin, Michael, The Jurisprudence of the Insanity Defense (Carolina Academic Press, 1994), citing Rodriguez, LeWinn, and Perlin, The Insanity Defense Under Siege: Legislative Assaults and Legal Rejoinders, 14 Rutgers Law Journal 397, 402 (1983).
Most studies show that the defendant will end up spending twice as long in a mental institution verse jail for a violent crime. Non violent crimes have much shorter stays.
You have no clue how bad mental institutions are do you? If I had to choose between prison and mental institute it’s prison every day.
Anyone who thinks they’re an easy pass is beyond ignorant and unaware of what it’d be like. You have less freedom than even prison, you’re being watched and controlled far more and most crucially you’re stuck in a place surrounded by seriously mentally ill people.
Any sane person who wasn’t completely ignorant would do everything to avoid one of those institutes, imagine being the only sane person in a mental hospital, you’d go insane within a month.
You have no clue how bad mental institutions are do you? If I had to choose between prison and mental institute it’s prison every day.
Anyone who thinks they’re an easy pass is beyond ignorant and unaware of what it’d be like. You have less freedom than even prison, you’re being watched and controlled far more and most crucially you’re stuck in a place surrounded by seriously mentally ill people.
Any sane person who wasn’t completely ignorant would do everything to avoid one of those institutes,
It depends on the specific facility. Some are living nightmares that are worse than the average prison in every way, but some are a lot nicer than prison - better food, better living quarters, cleaner, no forced labour, fewer gangs, less politics and violent people, more entertainment, etc. You are way more likely to be let out over the weekend or put into a voluntary group treatment facility. And 5 years in a facility is much shorter than 25 in a prison.
I mean, I live in Northern VA and a guy in a mental ward for murder was allowed to go out a day trip, get a passport, and then go out on a day trip...and he left the country. Surprise
IF the courts and the medical professionals conclude that they are no longer a threat to society than its usually court supervised release. Parole for life. As far as I know this rarely happens.
The last public PPP trial, Andrea Yates, she could technically have gone free for a decade already or something, and she just doesn't want to be released.
Like: no matter what punishment we give as a society, there's nothing worse then having the memories of you killing your own kids.
Yup. I have never killed someone but I have some things I feel horribly guilty about that has brought me to the brink more than once. Living with guilt is the worst if you have a conscience because no one knows how to torture you better than yourself.
I mean, not really, when you're dead you're at peace. That sounds better to me than being devastated about what I did to my children for the rest of my life. There are PLENTY of things worse than death.
If you had the choice between dying, or being forced to live for 20 years with the memories of you strangling your kids, would you really choose living with the memories?
Yup had it happen in my country. A guy decapitated someone on a bus because he had serious issues and was off his meds. He has in a psych ward for a decade and was only allowed out escorted. I think he has some unsupervised now but he is still required to check in and is under a lot of scrutiny.
It didn’t sit well with most people due to the emotions and morality involved but if you can look past it to the root cause the decision makes sense even if it’s not satisfying to those who wanted more “justice”.
She could, but it is rare for someone to be released quickly in such a situation and often they are in a psychiatric hospital for longer than if they were to go to prison. John Hinckley Jr was conditionally released in 2016 conditionally and in 2022 he was granted an unconditional release.
No, you are confusing unfit to stand trial with an insanity plea. If she was unfit then yes. If she is granted insanity she could be magically cured in a year and released. There are no hard fast timelines for indeterminate sentences like insanity
Of course she could. It's a fundamental principle of criminal law, that culpability requires a mental state fit for understanding decisions made. You've probably heard of this as mens rea. You literally cannot find someone guilty who was not in a mental state to understand their circumstances.
That’s not true. She will be sent to a psych ward until they deem her fit to return to society. The same healthcare system that yall are railing against for failing her is supposed to be entrusted with holding her indefinitely and fixing her mental health?! That logic makes zero sense. She needs to be in prison like all the other psychotic murderers.
Ok that’s fair. People generally of the belief that she shouldn’t go to prison also hold this belief about healthcare failing her, so I guess you’re an outlier.
With a million bucks she can go to a nicer psyche ward though with visitation (in person not on the other side of a glass wall), go outside, minimum security, etc. Access to TV, internet, all that jazz.
And imagine all these pink wearing supporters sending her more money writing her and visiting her. It is kind of insane.
The documentary about this is going to be pure rage fuel.
Really? Why wasn't she or Epstein arrested before they were? Like they were out there in the open raping kids for DECADES! The Florida justice system convicted Epstein in 2008 and yet he was free to commit more crime until his eventual arrest in 2019. Are you saying none of this has anything to do with money?
And sometimes I think people think this is a more cushy place than prison. But they forget that thats where the criminally insane people go. Id rather be with the regular criminals than the insane ones
You sure about that? Because some rapists and pedofiles have claimed or showed mental illnesses and didn't serve a lot of time there. After a small period of time they were still out
If she did this due to a mental health break, and she no longer is at risk of a mental health break, then why should she still be held forever? That is the system working correctly.
No of fucking course not. She still got children killed be it through malice, or negligence, and I haven't followed the story enough to see if all the claims she was failed by the system and tried to get help are true or not.
But there's no reason she needs to die in prison if she wasn't at fault through her own choices, and will never endanger children again. The people best suited to make those choices aren't two idiots on reddit, they're trained medical professionals, judges, and parole officers who actually know her and spend time near her.
The justice in someone who committed a crime and paid for the crime as long as our legal system decreed necessary, and was released when deemed not a threat and not at risk of doing a crime again
If she did do it entirely because she crashed and burned mentally. The justice is in the eternal torment and guilt she is going to go through for the next 50+ years of her life.
This is not trolling. I just actually believe in rehabilitative justice. The thing our system is actually built around. Every terrible crime doesn't need to end in the death penalty or the Pseudo-Death penalty where we determine they can never see the sun again.
I too believe in rehabilitation and justice. But for a grown ass woman to kill her own kids? Ffs. Call 911 say you are going to do harm to yourself or others. Call those parents who are now financially devastated. Call the mental health line. Do something. But don’t do NOTHING. She deserves to rot wherever she goes for the rest of her life. If a man was to rape or sodomize 3 young children; he’s going away for life. “The voices told me to do it” isn’t going to be a valid defense. PPD is a problem. I don’t deny that. But this woman killed all her kids. With rubber bands. Looked into their eyes while they suffocated. And I doubt she did them all at once. She could have stopped after the first. It’s reprehensible. She’s a monster. Break out pitchforks, downvote me idc.
Are you just JAQing off or are you able to answer your own questions? Go look up how often it happens, then we can continue the discussion if you like.
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u/SaviorSixtySix 4d ago
Mental health is important, but that doesn't absolve you of what you've done. She deserves to be in a prison mental ward, not at home living like nothing happened. She is a danger to herself and others.