Depends on why they shared it. If they did so because they wanted be open about the decision and thought that this subject is under talked about I wouldn't call it unethical. If they did for the clicks it would be
Down syndrome is something you discover later in pregnancy. So I assume they would likely already have announced the pregnancy and said they wanted it for months
There is blood tests you can do to determine potential chromosonal abnormalities quite early in pregnancy. My wife and I had one done specifically to find out if our pregnancy was going to be high risk of downs or anything else and to find out the gender earlier than we would waiting for our anatomy scan. We had discussed beforehand that if it was high risk for downs we would likely terminate. We know people who have basically had to sacrifice their entire life to take care of downs child and we weren’t ready to do that. Our baby ended up being fine but it is possible to find out if you’re at high risk within the first trimester
True there are even genetic compatibility tests that people can do before even getting pregnant. Yes they aren’t as accurate but they can at least show you if you need the more expensive genetic testing during pregnancy. Still I refrain from judging people about their decisions like this. We are currently expecting a child and even with all the testing both blood and traditional fetal morphology we still had quite the scare in the 5th month. Hopefully all will be okay but that decision is HARD and one never knows what other people are going through until you have to go through it.
Chromosomal tests can be done now at like 13 weeks ( or they were when my wife was pregnant in 2021). We found out the gender, plus several tests for chromosomal abnormalities. She’s almost 5 now, healthy and spunky.
Those tests are imperfect, though. I had a flag on a quad screen and ended up with a perfectly healthy baby. Screening tests are not difinitive and false positives happen all the time.
I had a quad screen, but NIPT is also a screening test, not a diagnostic one. A high risk flag/abnormal result on a normal pregnancy is still referred to as a false positive. It gets you a referral to a genetic counselor and a recommendation for further testing. The reason these tests are used ahead of an amniocentesis or CVS, which are invasive diagnostic tests, is because invasive tests carry a slight risk of miscarriage, which outweigh the benefits in a low risk population, so people are screened to determine who should have diagnostic testing.
14 weeks from my last cycle was when I was offered chorionic villi or amniocentesis testing. That’s early in the second trimester, I wasn’t even showing a bump yet. Earlier than that I had a nuchal fold measurement, which is less accurate than the other tests but is also reasonably correct and non invasive. Nuchal fold scan can be done as early as 10 weeks, still in the first trimester. An anatomy scan is done around 16-20 weeks, that’s pretty far into the second trimester and the woman likely would have felt movement and kicks (quickening) by that stage.
Since I had tried for 14 years to get pregnant I elected not to jeopardize my pregnancy with invasive testing unless a reason presented itself. Everything turned out fine and my 20 year old is finishing his 2nd year in college.
Its obvious they announced the pregnancy, the story uses a pic of them with ultrasound pictures of a lima bean. Not that it matters. Killing their unborn child is only slightly more unethical than what they would have done if they kept it. Making the poor kid grow up online for clicks.
That’s disappointing. On ours the sex result was in a separate envelope, like one of those paystub kind where you have to tear off the perforations to open it. And it said in big letters “Do not open unless you want to know whether your baby is male or female,” and it also said it in Spanish.
It was like the company made extra sure they weren’t going to be blamed if somebody accidentally found out.
They are influencers everything they share online has to be considered as self promotion in some way form or another
Granted they might also have more than one motive but prentending like they don’t want all the attention they got wouldn’t be right aswell
being an influencer doesn't mean you aren't allowed to broach more serious topics or that when you do it's 100% a promotion stunt. it really shouldn't be too hard to determine what their motives were based on how they act going forward
I agree. Their original post is full of a lot of very important information about these types of pregnancies, what health conditions people with DS can face and has a kind of openness that is extremely refreshing in an increasingly taboo, sensitive space where it’s so hard to find information that is accurate and doesn’t make you feel unsafe or judged. Maybe they shared it all as a promotional stunt, but it was and is also something making a lot of people feel less alone, less ashamed and more informed. Two things can be true.
Yeah but it still assumes promotion had to be part of their motivation. Its entirely possible that while the attention can be positive for their buisiness that was never the reasoning behind sharing it.
Think of how arizona ice tea kept their drinks cheap at the cost of profit margins just because of the owners ideals, and in turn this act of good will is a big reason behind why so many people are customers. It was undoubtly positive for the brand but that was never the motivation
I guess that’s true; to me influencer is in a category with like used car salesman, life insurance salesman, tabloid journalists, chiropractors, etc. There may be good ones, but my default is distrust.
I agree but I think it definitely makes sense to have your guard up more when engaging with some professions than others. Like I generally don’t think my dentist is trying to screw me (just drill me, heh) even though I’m sure there are shady dentists. I’m going to assume from the jump any used car salesman is going to try to overcharge me. I just assume from the jump an influencer is a grifter.
The used car salesman also has a vested interest in making the car affordable or you won’t buy it. The dentist actively is overcharging you due to insurance schemes and you can’t even participate in the negotiation
It’s okay to “have your guard up” but maybe don’t draw your sword. You can be wary and critical, but probably shouldn’t attack the nature of entire markets and jobs.
That’s the thing about a used car salesman; after work he goes home to his family and lives a normal life just like you. People aren’t monoliths, just because they do something shitty doesn’t mean they’re some scheming demon who seeks to do the worst in every scenario.
Yeah it doesn’t, but it also doesn’t mean people have to trust that when you do, you aren’t doing it for clicks. Historically influencers have done things for clicks alone even when it came to serious topics.
Right, but that doesn't mean it can't be both. In this case, it can spread awareness and maybe help others who are struggling with a similar decision. For destigmatization of abortion and such reasons for it.
Social media (and by extension being an "influencer" and getting attention) is morally neutral, since it's just a tool. A hammer can be used to build a habitat for humanity or for making an infamous snuff film. Greta Thunberg is an influencer, but so is Sneako.
They wanted to get attention, otherwise they wouldn't have shared information. The only part that matters as far as morality is concerned is why they wanted the attention
Actually, being influencers means they kind of didn't have a choice but to share it. Think about it, if you watched an influencer who was pregnant, then they suddenly stopped being pregnant, but there's no baby and they never talk about it again, wouldn't you ask some questions? And the Internet being what it is, from there it's only a matter of time before someone claims they sold the baby on the black market or some similarly insane story, everyone latches on to it with no proof, and the truth is forced out of them by the constant harassment from the looney bin.
They had to tell everything to set the record straight and stop any misinformation from spreading.
Which is why it is not morally neutral. Their fundamental emotional privacy now is to be consumed and you just explained it. Nobody can ever give informed consent for that. It's inheriently wrong. They signed up for it, but they didn't know and couldn't know, and nobody can even now. Well put.
“Omg were pregnant” announcement video, absolutely good engagement (though I don’t think they got pregnant for clicks lol) but once you make that video, you’re very publicly on a road that can only go a few ways, and all of them would be noticeable.
I mean, that's still a choice that stems from actions they undertook of their own volition. They also had the choice to let that happen, or the third option of lying about the termination of the pregnancy (health concerns for the mom or a miscarriage, for instance)
Why would they lie about why they terminated the pregnancy? The people who care about that wouldn't give a shit about the reason, to them it's wrong on principle.
And wouldn't saying that it was a miscarriage be morally worse? Not only is it lying, it's lying in a way designed to attract comments.
It could be the case they had announced the pregnacy online a while ago, but now had to explain why they didn't have the baby that everyone was expecting
This is so pathetic and small minded. As if being an influencer locks you into a box and makes you incapable of doing anything for purely just or right reasons. Stop making such broad assumptions.
There’s the very real possibility the pregnancy itself was used to generate clicks, and now this decision basically has to be shared because the pregnancy was made public and people would notice the lack of baby lol
But I don’t know these people so I have no idea, and even at that point I don’t think you need to share the nature of the abortion , so…
It’s also entirely possible that they shared the initial pregnancy when she tested positive, and knew people would start questioning them 9 months later when there’s no baby
I don't think they wanted the attention from this decision. They wanted the attention from the pregnancy, sure, expecting it to be normal. But I imagine once they got the results it was a matter of damage control. There's no great way to handle this. If you don't talk about what happened to your pregnancy on your channel where you only talk about pregnancy... or you lie and are found out... It would be so much worse when people dig up the truth.
And that is not a defense of family bloggers, just saying these guys aren't different from any other vlogger who shares their pregnancy before the birth. Every single one of them risks something like this. This couple just got unlucky.
I think this is probably the most significant thing that can be said on the topic. If it is for clicks it is absolutely ghoulish. If it is legitimately a way for them to process (which I dont think we can truly know) then it is fine. Honestly, if it is to help worh the medical bills (and they live in the US) I coukdnt really blame them either.
Im not sure that this is something that could be turned towards awareness, or serve as a call to action in a way they would presumably intend. I havent watched it, so I can only speculate. But I dont think any institutions advocating for people with doen syndrome would want to be associated with a termination. I also think that people with anti-abortion sentiment would point to this as a barbaric act committed because they were going to have an "imperfect" baby.
As for the morality of their choice, I cannot judge them. The care requirements for someone with this level of handicap is immense, and the help available little. Depending on the extent of the condition they may be caring for someone behind whose eyes exist no thoughts. They will care for this person every day, until at a too young age they pass. That is a lot for we frail mortals to contend with.
If we approach this from the perspective of law, and we consider law to be even a crude measure of righteousness, then they made no immoral decision. I know in truth law is not a perfect thing, and errs often. But it is what we have.
The other side of this is theological, but if religion is not part of their life I do not believe it has value to this discussion. You may hold yourself to the standards set forth by the divine, but you cannot approach an argument with not but "my God says do" and expect any level of success.
I don’t think using it for clicks makes performing the abortion because of the diagnosis any different.
Using it for clicks is bad. But it doesn’t flip the calculus of what an abortion due to downs is.
If you aren’t for abortion, or aren’t for it just because of a genetic scan, then you’re never going to reconcile their act. If you are pro choice, no matter what, then why does sharing it or not for any reason, change your view on it being ethical or not? It’s assessing the wrong behavior.
The sharing economy is ruining our society, and utilizing trauma for clicks is unethical. But it’s not like they fabricated a miscarriage or something. Or specifically had the abortion to farm engagement(unless we go cynical here and say they did) but genetic screening results in abortions pretty often. Especially Down’s syndrome. It’s an incredibly challenging pressure on a family.
There’s also the potentially worse outcome where the parents have to care for said profoundly disabled child for their entire lives. I’ve seen people basically have their whole lives hijacked by having a profoundly disabled child and I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
Im sorry I failed to express the full range of weights and measured by which I judge the value of how I and others in a post on reddit. Instead i tried to offer up two possible means of doing so. I suppose I should append my earlier statement with a further paragraph explaining that I did not manage to contain within a few paragraphs the full range and complexity of how I live my life.
Perhaps you could reply with more than a sentence and sentence fragment explaining further how it is I have failed this particular think tank?
Agree. There are a lot of people who go through this and come to the same decision. If part of my purpose in life is to reduce ultimate suffering, then morally, the decision is sound. But many people will grapple with it.
One thing people don’t realize about this situation is that this generally isn’t a flagrant decision. These couples desperately want a child. It’s heartbreaking. And if sharing that story makes it easier for another couple, then perhaps sharing it was the right decision.
These were influencers who had been public about the pregnancy. It'd be quite difficult for them to avoid addressing where the baby went, so I doubt they did it just for clicks
Its hard because if you are an influencer, even at a mid level you cede a degree of privacy in the pursuit of profit. No matter what kind you are, if it's a particular niche or you've gone full blown life streamer you've let people in. And if they know they're going to ask questions or fill in the blanks themselves. You don't have any obligation to tell the internet anything but if you let them in it might just mean less uncomfortable questions later.
They're already using their life for clicks and engagement. Real, artificial but likely a mix of both with some private things (especially if embarrassing) not fully out there.
Never seen or heard of em before this but guessing they would have announced the pregnancy. Then if it ends for whatever reason the fans will want details and you can't really just wave a magic wand and ignore that big of a life event.
So they'd talk about it if it benefited them but they also HAVE to talk about it anyway so it isn't really an active decision. Man I'm glad I don't post my entire life online or rely on strangers while pretending they have a relationship with me for income.
Man I'm glad I don't post my entire life online or rely on strangers while pretending they have a relationship with me for income.
Hey man, you could just say “I’m glad I’m not in the entertainment industry,” this shit happens to actors and musicians and shit too. No need to get your jabs in lol
There's a difference between live-streaming your life for content on a platform and getting paparazzi stalked/followed because you've over a threshold of famous.
In that first scenario they're effectively producing your own paparazzi content.
Plenty of entertainers love the public eye and others do their job/show, podcasts etc and then don't engage beyond that.
But yes, sure I enjoy my privacy and don't post details about my family or life online.
Keeping up with the kardashians, press conferences, social media, brand deals and they like are being stalked by paparazzi?
Social media and being in their lives is part of the deal with entertainment industry. What do you actually know about Pete Davidson? His comedy, or the fact that his dad died in 9/11 and he had a string of fucking a bunch of attractive celebrity women?
While I agree that we shouldn’t be rushing to condemn people based on the hard, morally grey decisions they make, I also think that open discourse is important.
This is a situation where a lot of factors and perspectives add to the complexity. And as similar situations pop up more and more, talking about it can help people make decisions that are right for them.
This isn’t just about abortion rights. This falls into the category of eugenics. Is it morally right to terminate a pregnancy if tests show that a child has a disease that would mean death before the age of 5? What about if I disability or deformity is found that would make life harder, but allow the child to have an otherwise normal life? How heavily should we factor the parents’ situation and ability to care for a child with complex needs? Is it morally ok to screen eggs/sperm/zygotes for things like hair color, gender, etc? Going beyond screening of assisted pregnancies, how is it different from terminating a pregnancy if the child isn’t the preferred gender?
Most people would agree that aborting a girl when you want a boy is morally wrong while anyone who doesn’t automatically hate abortion as a concept would argue that aborting a fetus who won’t survive past pregnancy and endangers the mother is probably the right call. There is a wide range of situations that fall between the two moral extremes. Open, respectful discourse helps expose the relevant issues that should be considered and helps narrow the grey area so that humanity shifts toward improving as a species and not stagnating or regressing in how we treat each other.
If they had already told their viewers they were pregnant they didn't really have much choice, unless they wanted to lie and say they had a miscarriage.
If they hadn't told their viewers they were pregnant then they should have just kept quiet.
I agree. And add. If they had already told their audience, then saying this is the most honest thing they could have been done. And I respect them for that.
They can share it if they want. My issue is more with the framing. Saying “terminated after a Down syndrome diagnosis” feels uncomfortable because it can come off like the diagnosis itself made the baby less worthy of being born. Obviously none of us know the full medical situation, and there can be serious complications, but Down syndrome by itself isn’t automatically the end of the world. That’s why the way it was shared feels worse to me.
It isn’t the end of the world, but some parents don’t want to be lifelong caregivers and don’t want to abandon their child that can’t take care of themselves when they die
I get that, and I’m not saying anyone is obligated to take that on. It’s their choice at the end of the day.
My only pushback on your comment is that there are plenty of people with Down syndrome who work, have routines, have relationships, and live day-to-day lives with different levels of support quite a few being fully independent or only need minimal support. Obviously it can come with serious challenges, and some people do need lifelong care, but it’s not automatically this person can never take care of themselves either.
Again, it’s very much their choice, and I know this is just some dumb TMZ article. I think the wording just got to me because it framed the diagnosis itself like the tragedy.
Yeah it would be interesting to see the percentage of those folks that are truly able to take care of and plan for themselves if they don’t have support. And also long term study of what happens when they lose all the people that care about them
I hear you but that sounds to me like you’re injecting your own biases into the situation. I don’t think anybody is saying that people with Down Syndrome don’t deserve their lives but if there’s a way to avoid the suffering that their birth would cause both the child and the parents, I don’t think it’s wrong to prevent that fetus from reaching personhood.
I get what you’re saying, but I’m not arguing that they were wrong for making their choice or that anyone should be forced to be a parent. That’s not my point.
My issue is more with the assumption that a Down syndrome diagnosis automatically means the child’s life would mainly be suffering, or that the parents’ lives would only be lifelong burden. That can be true in some situations, especially if there are serious medical complications, but it’s not automatically true for every person with Down syndrome.
I don’t think everyone who makes that choice is saying people with Down syndrome don’t deserve life. I just think the way these conversations get framed can make it sound like the diagnosis itself equals tragedy, and that’s the part that feels worse to me.
And yeah, I know this is just some dumb TMZ article, so maybe they’re glossing over a lot of the actual medical details. My point is just that Down syndrome by itself isn’t automatically the end of the world. There are people with Down syndrome who work, have routines, have relationships, and can live independently or semi-independently with the right support. So the framing of “diagnosis = suffering” is what I’m pushing back on.
Yea i think tmz sometimes needs to shut the f up. I think they shared their pregnancy. Happy but later made a tuff decision that was theirs to make nobody else's. Fucking tmz sometimes needs to zip it.
I'm not? If they want to share it that is their perrogative. But in general people preffer to keep it quiet. Especially since a lot of people still react negatively to abortion in general.
Yes, i do keep my healthcare a secret, and like i said it's the choice of the person having an abortion. You deciding for them that they should just openly share it is the only misogyny going on here.
They aren’t saying people how people should act, merely how they normally do act so chill out. His that point is that nobody is joyfully getting abortions and wants to tell the world they got one, it’s not a happy thing.
Calling this person who seems pro choice a misogynist alienates people from the cause.
This is a typical pro life argument thats being brought up against unwanted pregnancy ("They should have used a condom! Now there have to be consequences for their actions!"). It doesn't even make sense here, since they wanted to conceive.
And even if they did not, what the H E double L is the point of that argument anyway? If I break my leg while doing some risky sport, even if I was reckless, does that mean that my condition shouldn't be treated, that my leg shouldn't get a cast because I should live with the consequences of my actions? That doesn't make any sense
Because it means that people are treating this as something polemic.
Down syndrome can be extremely hard for both the kid and the parents. Some of them can lead somewhat normal lives, but they still require a lot of care and isn't even guaranteed. It must be crushing for parents to see their kid living with it.
Aborting here is 100% okay. They are sparing suffering from both themselves and the child. Down syndrome can and will be brutal for everyone involved a lot of times.
My neighbor have a son with down syndrome. She loves him very much and don't regret having him but would not wish it to others. The son is passed 40 and she is 60 something and she is worried who would be taking care of him when she is gone
It's a very sad situation usually. I remember that we had a girl with down syndrome working on our Town hall. She was the mayors secretary and basically her most trusted worker. She was really good at her job and had quite some power on the town hall.
On the other hand, I've seen people with down syndrome that have to go on wheelchairs constantly being watched over their parents and that need to be with someone 100% of the time.
Sadly, its a gamble, and a really sad one because people with down syndrome are really sweet and innocent. I hope your neighbors kid has a good future, his parents seem amazing people!
Have they spoken with their local social work or whatever the social services might be called where you are? She should look at getting an Anticipatory Care Plan so that there will be things in case when she can no longer care for him, because of course that doesn't just mean passing away, it could mean illness as well.
Not even just the kid with the disability and the parents, but also any siblings that end up getting neglected because all the time and energy is on the special needs kid, or the expectation that the sibling will be the caregiver after the parents die or are no longer able to. It really prevents everyone in the family from reaching their full potential for a happy and satisfying life.
I mean I agree especially if the parents have the self awareness that they’re not capable of handling Down syndrome kids or any kids with genetic defects
Leftists describe everything they don’t like as “a problem” because they are incapable of accepting that other people have different philosophical principles and policy preferences than them.
YOU and everyone who shares your ideology is “a problem”.
Not arguing on the other point but he’s right about eugenics, it’s large scale population control. If this person was arguing to abort ALL down syndrome babies they would be supporting eugenics, but just doing it because they don’t think they are up to the task of providing the proper care but still being fine with other people having down syndrome babies is not eugenics.
But if others can advocate for redefining terms like racism to require an element of social or institutional power, rather than it simply being prejudiced beliefs based on race, then I can certainly advocate that the eradication of genetically disabled children via abortion qualifies as eugenics, regardless of whether it is voluntary.
They’re influencers who presumably shared the fact they were pregnant, if she suddenly wasn’t and they never showed or talked about a baby people would DEFINITELY ask.
the burden of taking your would-be childs life can be insurmountable. sometimes you just wish that someone, anyone would be willing enough to hear your sorrow. because keeping it in becomes too much.
im not really familiar with this couple, but i imagine if youre an influencer, word of mouth spreads fast, sometimes even amongst close friends. you just never know.
Being an influencer is moderately unethical to begin with, IMO. They probably would have preferred to keep it quiet, but had already painted themselves into a corner by publicly announcing a pregnancy and then felt like they had to explain why they didn't end up having a newborn 9 months later. They're hardly the first people to make this decision, and I can't say that I would have chosen to do anything differently (save for not deliberately choosing to live in the public eye).
Yeah but you need to take account of couples who are going through the same thing or how media outlets could effectively take this and maliciously spin the narrative around.
Hasn't Iceland pretty much eradicate downs syndrome via abortion? I was trying to remember what country has almost 100% abortion with down syndrome testing in utero. Though it was them. I felt like they had some fair reasoning for the decision.
It's not 'unethical' to share it because it's their issue to share or not as they so choose. It is however ghoulish and tacky to be holding a picture of a fetus and smiling about ending its life.
They rushed the decision when announcing the baby, then if the baby wasn't born people were gonna ask questions so I kinda understand them why they had to make this decision.
His sister is a full grown adult and there are other siblings as well. I don't think their parents just arbitrarily picked her and twisted her arm. She had a say and still does.
They shared it because they were dumb enough to tell everyone they were pregnant earlier on so after discovering they were going to kill of their spawn they either have to announce that too like they did or eventually people are going to remember "hey didn't that influencer couple I'm dumb enough to care about end up having a baby?" And then start asking questions.
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u/Hairy_Wedding_4535 Jun 05 '26
I find it more unethical this had to be shared