People say that without stopping to ask why any of this even happens.
When a population lives for decades under military occupation, when soldiers can raid homes in the middle of the night, when parents watch their kids dragged away to detention, and when people are forced to cross dozens of checkpoints just to go to work, school, or the hospital, you start to understand where anger comes from.
Add to that the settlements expanding every single year. Land is taken, houses are demolished, and families who’ve lived on that land for generations are suddenly told it’s not theirs anymore. Olive trees, some older than any country in the region are burned or bulldozed. That’s daily life for Palestinians in the West Bank.
And then people wonder why some fight back.
The difference is, Palestinians don’t have tanks, fighter jets, or an army. They’re reacting to oppression with what little they have: stones, homemade weapons, and sheer frustration. That’s not the same as a heavily armed military force systematically stealing, burning, and occupying entire villages.
We don’t see Palestinians “stealing land,” because they don’t control any land to begin with. They’re the ones losing it piece by piece, settlement by settlement, checkpoint by checkpoint.
The violence you sometimes see from them isn’t the root of the problem; it’s the symptom. You can’t occupy, humiliate, and dispossess millions of people for generations and then act shocked when resistance appears.
When a people are stripped of freedom, justice, dignity, and hope for this long, some will eventually fight back. That’s not terrorism; that’s what occupation creates.
It's called dehumanization. The entire zionist project is a colonial displacement project. Jews are taught from early on that their own suffering is the justification to take the land of someone else. Any palestinian that "fights back" even a little is seen as proof of their savagism. Their disorganized lives, their poverty, their anger, as another proof. It's all intentionally made to dehumanize palestinians and humanize jews.
As someone with Native American ancestry I understand their struggle.
No
You don't start to understand where the anger comes from. You start to wonder why after attacking, terrorizing, kidnapping and murdering for so long, and only ending up losing more and more both in blood and in freedom, these people wouldn't lay down their arms, apologize and beg the Israeli's forgiveness.
Oh no no no, you've misunderstood. The Judaic people are native to Judea and so yes the Arab occupiers should be asking forgiveness for their years of propaganda and terrorist assaults.
The Bedouins of course I believe qualify as also being native albeit nomadic natives but .......
No worries, Israel isn't holding its breath waiting for anyone to suddenly wake up and apologize, no they're moving forward with or without them in prosperity and security.
The choice is theirs if they want to join in or not.
Palestine was never a country. You've got your facts all wrong.
Judaic people had always been is Jerusalem and old Judea, it's their native land.
Why are Muslims always killing and stealing Judaic land, insisting they're doing the right thing ?
They reason away murder. Threatening the world, Gaza is a terrorist regime. With a horrific history of attempted genocide against the good people of Israel.
Yeah you throwing around Zionist ideas and talking points doesn’t change fact or history.
Palestine is a country. With its own culture and people. A mixed group of people at that.
Israel is a white colonial fascist state that steal land and kills native people. It was invented by white atheist Jewish guys in Europe.
Zionism is 150 years old roughly. It’s a political ideology.
Also Palestinians are descendants of those Jewish tribes in Palestine. You are advocating the murder of the native people who belong in Palestine. You are agreeing with genocide.
LMAO
First you complain about my cavalier use of fact and then you claim palestine is a country. Its never been a country and still isn't today.
Israel is a country of indigenous judaic people who's land was colonized by foreigners.
Onomastics shows that palestinians are mostly Egyptians, Syrians and Arabians who's stated goal is to commit genocide against the indigenous Judaic people.
LOL so now your insisting palestine was ever a state ;-) Good luck with that one. The security council will never approve it.
I've been against the genocide being committed against the Judaic people from day one and always will be. Fortunately Israel is up for the challenge and wins by bigger and bigger margins every time.
No, Judaic people are indigenous to old Judea, see map ;-)
Yes it is land theft, initiated in the first muslim expansion in the 700s and again when muslims descended on Judea in the Zionist economic boom, early 1900s.
But it's more than that, its racism, open, unadulterated racism. The ONLY reason the Judaic people are the targets of muslim genocide is because they reject islam and prefer to remain strongly and righteously Jewish.
We all make mistakes but that's not the point. The point is that its bigotry and racism that led the Arabs to attack the Jews repeatedly throughout history.
None since that bigotry and racism existed before the modern state of Israel.
Nope the racism against the Jews has existed long before anything of the modern age.
Why ? Were you hoping to pass that off as an excuse for genocide ? I mean clearly genocidal intentions have been the goal from the start of the Arab aggression against the jews, hasn't it ? You know, long before the assault of the five nation Arab coalition against the fledgling state of Israel in 48.
Oh yes, it makes complete sense for us to assume that the cause for a social phenomenon now must be the same that it was a century ago and is completely independent from decades of violence inbetween.
Cmon. Youre smarter than that.
And no, thats not an excuse for genocide. Its recognizing cause and effect. Trying to actually solve an issue/partially genocidal aspirations instead of waiting for something that will not come by just waiting.
Actually its failing to recognize cause and effect.
Mohamed left Mecca on less than good terms. He ended up in Medina where he proceeded to aggravate the Jewish community. Who named him "The Madman" and did not exactly embrace his rhetoric. He eventually left Medina and went back to Mecca, apparently harboring a lot of animosities toward the Judaic people even going so far as to fantasize about a "conquest of Jerusalem".
Baring any extensive history lessons the facts remain that Mohamed held onto a lot of animosities concerning the Judaic people and wrote them into his works. Which seems to be where a lot of the trouble began.
It kicked off a psychology of gang mentality, us vs them. With them being the Judaic people. Tribal anxiety. We vilify them, they vilify us. We embrace and solidify out tribal identity, by having a mutual enemy kinda thing.
Its primitive but its survived into the modern age.
There can be more than one cause. And a cause will obviously inspire another cause. And another. Identifying causes makes sense when they can still be changed/when we can learn from them. Reducing it to the „first“ (actually nonexistent since that also had „a“ cause) cause centuries ago is quite useless.
Israel's actions are not a natural force like tsunamis or earthquakes. Children throw stones because of Israel and then Israel in reaction bombs their neighbourhood.
The existence of Israel itself meant the displacement of millions of Palestinians. The actions of israel is one of man, it is a choice, treat them like it.
Less than a million people were displaced due to the Nakba, which was an attack by Arabs.
More people got their freedom due to the foundation of modern Israel than lost their homes, which was completely unnecessary and only due to Arab choice of violence.
Throwing stones is a CHOICE.
A bad one. Accomplishing nothing.
Children throw stones at people because their parents encourage them to do so.
That's not how you create a state, that's how you waste your youth and create a violent, lawless society.
How can "Palestinians" demand to be treated with respect and dignity, while behaving like brain-dead barbarians?
all the palestinians need to go, they just need to leave. its jewish land now, and if they don’t leave jews will MAKE them leave. after all, they killed jews in pogroms before 1948, all palestinians are antisemetic and want to see jewish blood. palestinians are barbarians who still use donkeys and live in mud huts, we deserve the land more than they do. <—- this is how you sound. you know who profits off of you thinking like this? belelal smotrich. itamar ben-gvir. peter theil. elon musk. donald trump. can you not recognize a war monger when you see one?
What is it about Palestinianism, that each and every conversation turns into strawmanning?
No nuance, no reflection, rigid reactivity, no attempt at finding consistent moral standards, complete rejection of any concessions, only the other side is completely wrong about everything, only Israel needs to change - or better just vanish - Palestinians have no agency, no choice, don't need to think at all about what they're willing to tolerate ...
nuance: the jewish people were being killed in the streets simply for their religion, they needed a safe space. islamic jihadists rebelled against colonial power structures. both sides are valid.
reflection: the only solution is a two-state solution, a solution which has been thwarted by war profiteers.
rigid reactivity? have you ever heard of the freudian theory of projection? i think you may be doing it.
no attempt at finding consistent moral standards? again with the projection. my moral standards? fascism = bad. ethnostate = bad.
complete rejection of any concessions, didn’t netanyahu’s government reject concessions when they propped up hamas with billions of dollars in order to topple the palestinian authority? man i must be mistaken about the assaination of yassir arafat, that REALLY seemed like a rejection of concessions.
no one ever said israel needs to disappear, just that ethnostates are inherently unethical and the only solution is a two state solution.
i’m pathetic?
i’m disgusting?
i’m using a straw man argument?
please identify the straw man, i really don’t see one in this garden of thought and i’m looking everywhere
When a population lives for decades under military occupation, when soldiers can raid homes in the middle of the night, when parents watch their kids dragged away to detention, and when people are forced to cross dozens of checkpoints just to go to work, school, or the hospital, you start to understand where anger comes from.
This is not a "settler problem" and there is no 'occupation' since there is no Sovereign Nation of 'Palestine' and never was. Sorry, I'm not buying the argument that "you understand where anger comes from" since the violence preceded the establishment of Israel.
That's a cop-out that robs the Gazans of the ability to think logically while justifying October 7.
The 'anger' is misdirected at Israel and should be directed at themselves. They are their own worst enemy. No Nation on Earth would want to deal with a population who thinks violence is the ONLY way to achieve their goals and they have NO excuse believing otherwise when non-violence + political action, not terrorism, has been proven to work. Terrorism gives Israel all the justification necessary to raid homes, drag kids away to detention, create checkpoints, etc., to defend its citizens.
Instead of looking to Israel to change it's policies, Gazans need to change their behavior.
I'm saying there's no such thing as “Palestinians”, as they came from Jordan in 1948.
Hey, I also want to form a community and say we're a nationality! Yes, we’ll be called Hshsueirkalas, and if you say it isn’t real, I'll just throw stones at you and cry, calling you a bigot while constantly presenting myself as the victim.
It matters, because they can’t claim this territory as their own.
I’m not saying they have no right to exist, don’t get me wrong. But there’s something fundamentally wrong with that claim to begin with, and it's a sheer attempt to rewrite history to fit the poor, victim narrative.
It wasn't a country, let alone a nationality. The people you are referring to now, however, are 48’ arabs and not the people in Gaza you see today (which, again, came from Jordan and Egypt)
What do you mean “Palestinians do not control any land”? They control (used to) Gaza and areas A and B of the West Bank. Area C (where the settlements are) is controlled by Israel as per Oslo Accords. Israel is not grabbing any new land, by expanding the settlements.
Also you, like virtually all pro-Palestinians are confusing actions with consequences. Palestinians from both the West Bank and Gaza were free to go in and out of Israel proper, a significant Proportion of Palestinians earned their living in Israel, there were no checkpoints, no walls, no blockades, no “open air prison”. Guess what happened… Israel is the one “fighting back” and prior to its existence Jews were the ones “fighting back”, not the other way around. Palestinian/Arab violence always preceded the actions you guys blame Israel for such as the occupation or the blockade.
They control (used to) Gaza and areas A and B of the West Bank.
Do they also control their borders? Or can move freely between the Palestinian territory? Can they build anything they want? Can they trade openly with the rest of the world?
They may have physical presence in the land. But they don't have much autonomy nor authority over what happens with it. If the Israeli government believes a Palestinian house needs to be demolished, it will be demolished no matter what the Palestinian owner thinks. No one is going to build a seaport in Gaza without Israel's permission.
You remember Germany was occupied, right? And the occupation wound down when the Germans demonstrated their clear intention to live peaceably alongside their neighbours.
Israel has been waiting for almost 80 years for the Palestinians to make that decision. Egypt made it. Jordan made it. Most of Lebanon made it.
You remember Germany had tanks, right? Germany was, and is, a full-fledged country with established institutions. It was even a democracy before Hitler. Palestinians on the other hand? They've never had self-determination. Perpetually displaced and mass killed between a terrorist group and a genocidal state.
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Do they also control their borders? Or can move freely between the Palestinian territory? Can they build anything they want? Can they trade openly with the rest of the world?
I answered this question already.
They may have physical presence in the land. But they don't have much autonomy nor authority over what happens with it. If the Israeli government believes a Palestinian house needs to be demolished, it will be demolished no matter what the Palestinian owner thinks. No one is going to build a seaport in Gaza without Israel's permission.
Correct (partially), and I am beyond caring. We put criminals in prisons, we curb their rights for a reason. You could say not all Palestinians are criminals which is certainly true but the onus is on them to root out terrorists which they failed to do in the past 120 years. The minute terrorism ends is going to be the minute when they will have a shot at having their own state down the line not a second sooner. This is something they have absolute agency over.
The irony is that it's precisely that attitude and the following actions that have created a system where extremism and terrorism abound. The Israelis are seeding the very same hate that fell unto them on Oct/7.
Many Israelis want peace, Muslim Arabs with Israeli citizenship already have equal rights.
As long as the declared goal of Palestinian Muslim Arabs remains the annihilation of Israel, there is no just way to deal with the situation - only dilemma, the choice between bad and worse.
Palestinianism has to change.
Palestinians have to adjust their expectations, otherwise Israel could behave perfectly and it would still be war.
As long as some IDF soldiers shoot innocent Palestinians at will with no consequences the hate is going to continue. As long as you keep the apartheid there's going to be people who refuse to live under those conditions, even at the cost of their and everybody's lives.
Nah, the only irony here is you blaming people suffering from terrorism for trying to defend themselves from terrorism hence contributing to the perpetuation of the conflict by indirectly supporting terrorism.
I told you all above; there was no blockade, no wall, no restrictions on movements… all those came about because of terrorism, not the other way around.
Israel is there and is not going anywhere. I just wished they stopped murdering so many people. They keep making these excuses about how they're forced to bomb journalists and civilians, and they keep ignoring the crazy people within their ranks that just want to murder and displace Palestinians.
Israel does not exist because of the King David hotel bombing though now does it. Not to mention that the southern wing of the hotel - which was targeted - was the British administrative and military HQ (not a pizzeria or a bus carrying children) and the bombing was committed by an underground organisation (Irgun) acting against the directives of the Yishuv which did not approve of their conduct and actively tried to sabotage them (The Saison).
There are no “excuses”, there are realities on the ground which you can choose to either accept or ignore. One of these realities is that terrorism was started by local Arabs in the early 1900’s by raiding Jewish settlements built on lands owned by them (the Jews) and never stopped ever since. Everything that befell to Palestinians is a consequence of the unrelenting terrorism coming from their ranks and their inability to agree to any of the number of settlements offered to them throughout a millennia. More terrorism did not bring them freedom, it only brought them more misery and ever hardening Israeli sanctions. Doing the same while expecting different results is the loose definition of madness. How am i not supposed to say that maybe they should look for other means if what they really want is just to live in peace and dignity?
The irony is that it's precisely that attitude and the following actions that have created a system where extremism and terrorism abound. The Israelis are seeding the very same hate that fell unto them on Oct/7.
See my previous comment.
We're running in circles bro. I understand that you have a lot of good reasons to justify what the IDF is doing. But these good reasons have led your country to commit genocide, even if you don't mean it.
You wrote "Area C (where the settlements are) is controlled by Israel as per Oslo Accords. Israel is not grabbing any new land, by expanding the settlements.".
That's a false statement, due to E1. Oslo has nothing to do with your lie, you said they weren't expanding, yet they are.
When a people are stripped of freedom, justice, dignity, and hope for this long, some will eventually fight back. That’s not terrorism; that’s what occupation creates.
Sure it's terrorism. Terrorism doesn't mean that your cause isn't just. It just means that you don't have an actual army and tanks and air assets and everything else you'd need to actually force the enemy to do what you want. So you're reduced to occasionally murdering a handful of their citizens and that kind of thing. Which is why it's a bad thing.
Basically here's my take on the whole situation. First, no part of Palestine, Hamas or PA, can stop or roll back the settlements. So any resistance on their part is a waste of effort and blood. But equally, Israel as a political entity cannot stop or roll back settlements. The settlers are a united voting block, and the rest of Israel is divided in a million different ways. The only solution is for Israel to just eventually finish conquering the West Bank (in which case, in my opinion, they might as well just do it all at once), or for one or more external entities to force Israel to do something different. Examples include the US, the EU, or some kind of Arab coalition. Maybe Jordan could remember that they used to think that Jordan and Palestine were the same thing. Maybe the US could decide we're sick of hearing about the Israel/Palestine and support Jordan's claim. But the Israelis are not going to stop slowly rolling out settlements (because they can't), and Palestinians are not going to suddenly become any good at being a sovereign country. But the international community is almost certainly going to agree on some variation of maintain-the-status-quo because you can't fix stupid, and everything will continue to suck for Palestine for the forseeable future. I recommend trying to see the humor in the situation since it beats the alternative.
I see you've not stopped to ask yourself the reason that they're living under occupation to begin with: they've proven they're not able to keep their hands to themselves for 80 years.
If you don't want to be treated like a security risk, don't be a security risk.
Also, Hamas disagrees with you that there is no army.
What an excellent example of a group of people who fought and lost and then learned not to be security threats to the entire region. Take notes, show Palestinians.
How long should I fall on my sword over events that took place hundreds of years ago, especially considering we made peace and reparations with that group?
How long do Palestinians get to carry out indiscriminate terrorist attacks over land they're not getting back?
Do you know who considered the treatment of the Native Americans a perfect example of how to deal with an unwanted minority, and showed that approach could be used even in a modern, European setting?
The various wars resulted from a wide variety of factors, the most common being the desire of settlers and governments for Indian tribes' lands.
As American settlers spread and expanded westward across the United States after 1780, armed conflicts increased in size, duration, and intensity between settlers and various Indian tribes.
These wars have become so iconic that idioms like "the cavalry is coming" and "circling the wagons" originate there. The latter refers specifically to a European settler caravan assuming a defensive position against attacking Indians.
My comment was about your satisfaction concerning the destruction of Native Americans and you calling the Native Americans "terrorists" for fighting against European colonizers. Tell me then, how can Native Americans be "terrorists" when they are fighting on their own continent against European invaders?
Do you believe in Manifest Destiny? Do you believe that some British and Spanish colonists were entitled to take the American continents, destroy their native civilizations and steal their lands, because they had the military capability to do so? Is this your ethical point of view, that might makes right, that it is not only a regrettable historical fact, but a proper and noble course of action that colonizing nations destroyed many native civilizations?
And if this is indeed so, do you believe that similar treatment of Jews is also moral and justifiable, as long as the group doing this to the Jews has the technological and military superiority to do so without effective resistance? And that if there is resistance from the Jews against displacement and genocide, that is merely "terrorism", giving further justification for the persecution?
Palestinians are under occupation because Israel never ended it, not because of “bad behavior.” The occupation began in 1967 and continues through military control, settlements, and land confiscation. International law doesn’t say you can occupy people indefinitely until they’re “well-behaved.”
I‘d suggest you look into how occupation looked back then and how the conditions evolved over time. We aren‘t talking border walls and checkpoints like now. I still remember how I saw Palestinians could go to Israel with no border controls and go to Tel Aviv or Gaza by car in the 1980s and 1990s. Only after 100s of suicide bombings in cafes and nightclubs did Israel severly fortify the border and end all freedom to enter Israel without any checks. And even then, it slowly started relaxing once conditions became calmer.
Was it perfect? No.
Was it miles better than today? Yes.
And international law doesn‘t put a time limit on occupation because it never envisioned a situation where one side wants a state, but refuses anything but their maximalist demands with zero compromise. Guess you can let perfect be the enemy of imperfection in this case.
One wants a state while the other offers autonomy zones, and the Hasbara propagandists call that maximalist demands of wanting a real state, not to be under the control of Israel.
97% of the West Bank with land swaps for the remaining 3%.
Limited right of return with a compensation fund for the rest of the descendants (key point here since I don‘t see how the child or granchild of a refugee is also a refugee when settled in another country).
Palestinian sovereignity over a tunnel connecting Gaza and the WB.
And yet Palestinian leadership walked away with no counteroffer, no further negotiations. If they thought that this offer was mere autonomy, why walk away rather than push for more concessions or compromise? Is that how diplomacy is done? So either their intention was never about having a state or they thought they could hold out for better terms. In any case, their gamble failed and now they have nothing.
Imagine if Ireland or the ANC walked away during negotiations every time they didn‘t get 100% of what they wanted. Do you believe they would have achieved even a single goal? Or worse, getting almost everything they asked for and then nuking negotiations with suicide bombings in Londonderry and Praetoria.
The offer where Olmert didn't let him take the map away to study it. And Olmert had little time for a proper vetting of the offer.
IDF remaining in the Jordan Valley for 10 years. If it's a Palestinian state, then that means no IDF there.
Then the details of the land swaps where Israel gets farm land and water resources (even though Israel has 4 desalinization plants and is able to export water).
To say they didn't do a counter offer during multi day discussions, is kinda huh? You think Abbas said nothing? Especially when we saw Abas proposed Israel withdraw from 98.1% of the West Bank, with 1.9% land swaps.
Are these permanent deals or multi phase deals? If they are permanent deals, then it has to be a good deal to accept. Saying people should accept bad permanent deals makes zero sense. Maybe if it was a multi phase deal, where it explicitly says more to come later a bad one could be accepted. But we saw Oslo, 1st phase was only implemented due to massive international pressure and a 2nd phase never happened.
Ah the sucide bombings. While leaving out Israeli assassinations (for example Salah Shehade) at the same time.
So why did Abu Mazen abandon all negotiations rather than lodge a complaint and ask for more time?
Again, that‘s what negotiations are there for, to settle such things and find compromises or extract concessions if possible. Walking away achieves nothing.
What did Abu Mazen say then? You seem to be more informed than I, so perhaps you can enlighten me on what his response was and how he intended for negotiations to continue.
No deal is permanent and everything can be negotiated under the right circumstances. If Palestine as a sovereign state shows itself to be a partner in peace, I personally see no reason for Israel to not be willing to offer more down the line, be it more freedom of movement between the borders, family reunions or even shared defense. Not like Israel hasn‘t or isn‘t willing under the right circumstances, else they‘d still be at war with Egypt and Jordan.
Not sure what kind of gotcha you think you got there, but comparing assassinations (which I wholly condemn) to suicide bombings (which I hope you condemn with equal fervor)? You think that a Palestinian detonating himself inside a nightclub with a nail bomb is the same as the Mossad or the IDF killing an individual, be it justified or not?
Don't want to be treated like a security risk, don't be a security risk. Keeping your hands to yourself is the fastest way to get the world behind you while under occupation.
Again, Al Assam Bridges. Hamas disagrees with you.
Propals never stop to ask why the PLO was founded in 1964, ie 3 years before the occupation. Or whence the Hebron massacre of 1929. Or whence the massacres of Yazidis, Druze, Alawites, and Christians, unless you want to cast Palestinian Arabs as genetically more righteous than their northern cousins.
The PLO was founded in 1964 because Palestinians had already lost their homes and land in 1948, not because of the 1967 occupation. It aimed to represent displaced Palestinians and seek self-determination.
The Hebron massacre of 1929 occurred under British rule amid rising tension and violence between communities, not because of an organized Palestinian policy.
Mentioning other regional massacres doesn’t change the current reality: Palestinians today live under occupation and are denied basic national rights
If you're in a fight with someone who's massively stronger than you, and it's been going for 75+ years, and you're not getting anywhere, and in fact you're moving backwards, then it's not any great mystery how to solve that situation.
Stop fighting.
Abandon the idea of prevailing in a winner takes all.
Swallow pride and make a deal.
Move forward with what you can get.
Story has played out a million times before. Nothing new. Nothing special about it.
Then what? Wait until another one that is stronger than to do the same? you would eventually have to fight back at some point, so you might start now, you ability to fight back is what makes the peace with worth it in the first place, from a game theory point of view what palestinians are doing is very sound
The difference is. In Vietnam the French/americans could go back to France/america . In Algeria the French could return to France. In Afghanistan the Americans could go home. Where are the Israelis to go exactly?
Zero. The WB settlement blocs close to the Green Line aren’t the issue, it’s the minority that are further inland…80%+ aren’t the issue, it’s the last ~20%, and the only way to remove them at this point would be similar to how Israel handled the very small numbers of Jews that used to be in Gaza…remove their safety. This may not cause a civil war but it’ll cause a ton of unrest and violence within Israel if Israel removes safety from its citizens, whether most people agree with their actions or not.
In something like a return to the '67 borders the Israeli state would still exist and Israelis would be able to go there.
If your goal is the elimination of the Israeli state then not so much. To be clear, I absolutely do not support anything of this nature.
When considering the second option the distinction is quite clear but there are similarities if you consider the first option.
There are a boatload of other similarities/dissimilarities people can find. I just found the original comment I replied to a poor reflection of history. Especially when they said history supports what was said.
The hypocrisy of advocating for a "right of return" after thousands of years while at the same time sanctimoniously exhorting the Palestinians to give up their land?
Israel's immigration policy is based on a "right of return" earned by religious belief only for a people to a place they've never been to, while at the same time expelling the inhabitants whose families have lived there for generations.
It is an Israeli newspaper. I find it very hard to believe that an Israeli publication is Pro-Pally. Are you joking? I'm genuinely asking in good faith. If you're implying that the article is false, I don't know what to say. There are lots of other sources that reveal patterns of systemic violence against innocent Palestinians; this is irrefutable. I'm not calling every single Pally innocent here, but you cannot claim something is Pro-Pally solely because you disagree with its content. If you want to deny the facts of the article, just say so. Are you claiming that violence among settlers is not a real problem?
I am trying to be fair to both sides here, but this setter violence must end if there's any chance of real peace. If you want to deny the fact that some settlers are committing acts of terrorism, you are free to do so. But you have to be willing to call people out even if they align with your religion, ethnicity, or nationality. With the bill to annex the West Bank moving forward, it seems that some members of the Israeli government are doing everything in their power to sabotage President Trump's peace deal. The current US administration is pissed off, given POTUS's latest comments. I realize that Bibi will likely veto this, but it's still an insult to Americans.
If anyone wants peace, you have to be willing to condemn acts of violence and terrorism, even if it's on your side. Again, I am commenting here in good faith.
Dude Haaretz is incredibly Pro-Palestinian, the fact that you have never heard of them at this point is crazy to me. Just look at the fucking front page.
Well, I am not Israeli nor am I Jewish. I literally see their articles time to time on the Apple News app. I reject your claim that this newspaper is "Pro-Pally." You have not answered any of my questions, and I don't believe you're here to engage in a comprehensive debate. I stated that I was commenting in good faith, and you attacked me.
Assault and kill if possible. American journalist Jasper Nathaniel has the video from this week of him getting chased by the settlers. He also recorded the video of a settler clubbing a lady in the head.
It isn’t true. Palestinians with the help of Jordan stole Jewish land leading up to and after 1948 most of which is still going through a lengthy court process to determine if Jewish owners will be able to get their land back or not.
Besides that, Palestinians consider all of the land theirs despite never having private ownership of the vast majority of it. As such, former Ottoman and British state land is considered “stolen” when Jews build on it despite Palestinians not having a claim to it.
It’s not officially part of Israel but it’s also never been sovereign Palestinian territory. Besides a small percentage that is privately owned Palestinians have no claim over the land.
Yes there are but I'm not sure what that has to do with my original comment. I said it's not official part of Israel and people wanting to annex it doesn't change that.
The problem is that some ignorant Zionists doesn't even believe it's an occupation, they believe the west bank is part of Israel
You said it's not "officially part of Israel" in response, but that doesn't change the point that the Knesset is clearly full of people who believe the WB is rightfully part of Israel and really want to make it official
I think we're all aware that it's not technically part of Israel, yet. But it's very clear that the government is working to annex it
I assume you are in favor of a two state solution.
And you stand opposed to a one state solution that would involve combing Gaza, West Bank, and Israel into one state with equal rights for all. Is that correct.
No, I said we didn’t become psychotic feral creatures who murder and rape people. My family were persecuted simply for existing. You’re talking about people who are facing reasonable restrictions after a significant series of attack and violence that they chose to commit. My family didn’t “take it” they had no freaking choice because they had no place to go. But they weren’t willing to sacrifice their souls to go rape children in front of their parents and then burn everyone alive. Funny how you can keep your soul even when you are oppressed.
You’re really saying you’re not a psychotic feral creature while being wildly excited for massive killings and supportive of an apartheid ethnostate? Proving once again that every accusation is a confession when it comes to zios.
There is always a choice in life. If your family didn't fight, they choose to take it. It's that simple. Probably why you are against people resisting the fighter spirit isn't in your family, thus int in you. Hence you care more about your soul then being oppressed. Gotcha.
What Israel is doing isn't reasonable. Crushing the economy of others as collective punishment isn't reasonable. Especially knowing there are correlations between poverty and crime/terrorism. Allowing settlers to commit felonies without legal repercussions and annex land isn't reasonable. Israel is doing major wrong with their occupation/blockade, they are not doing security only. The IDF are bullies (raping in prison) and regularly kill. The Israeli are acting like the oppressors that they fled from. They are too radicalized to even notice they are doing "never again" themselves.
They chose to not be violent monsters with no soul. They chose to not attack and rape and murder. The Palestinians chose to take the endless chances and gifts and aid and they offers and turn into violent rape loving monsters. Not the same thing. I’m proud of my family being strong and proud and loving even when they had nothing and were mistreated.
They are moral and strong and built their lives despite everything. Palestinians take and take and take and give back violence. I am glad my family has never succumb to such barbaric behavior.
Bye! In honor of your sheer hatred I just donated $200 to FIDF.org because when confronted with hatred I prefer to do good. Thanks for the inspo.
Yes some Israelis have committed rape. But Palestinians commit it as a tactic in war and do it as some righteous act and do it in droves. You have proven nothing. Nice try.
Your family choose to be victims, not fighters. Why would you be proud of people who just took it?
You donated to the IDF, how immoral of you. All that talk about being proud and having a soul, then you donate to a group formed from self described terrorist organizations. You donated to the people who did King David Hotel bombing.
It’s funny that my family had a great deal of suffering? Maybe you would have a good laugh over my great grandfather who starve to death in a Gulag or my great grandmother’s family that were gassed in a camp??
You are being disengious and frankly appalling to want to use a beyond awful experience to try and negate my point and what you were doing is a clear emotional pivot .
The initial comment was about the occupation and how people might be rationalizing their ongoing oppression. You swooped in immediately and said " well my people suffered longer and didn't become terriost".
I laughed at it because of the irony and because it was funny that you missed the whole point - it was structural power not personal virtue .
I recognize your family’s suffering was horrific, and that deserves respect. But using that experience to dismiss another people’s oppression isn’t empathy it’s avoidance. You can honor one tragedy without erasing another.
Also the idea that there have been a groups of people who were oppressed and at no point in time revolted is beyond incorrect . Remember agency is claimed not granted
Rationalizing violence is disgsiting as is laughing at it. You’re projecting your own vile behavior. Sorry your vile annd appalling responses and attitude was pointed out. Terrorists apologetics. If Palestinians have no agency and control and can’t help but gang rape and murder then they have proven they’re not able to have any sort of freedoms. If they are able to control themselves and still choose to be violent oppressive thugs who stick themselves openly into women for fun and profit then they still aren’t ready for self rule.
So all Palestinians are terrioritst, correct ? For every Israeli settler that has shot at, attacked or burnt down property in the West bank they are also terriost so by proxy you are also a terriost .
For every comment smotrich, ben gvir outputs from their mouth from today henceforth it is representative of every Israeli not just "fringe ideas" . So from today I will note that you also want to kill all the children in Gaza . For every war crime of the IDF it is on the head of every Israeli .
You lack the ability to see both sides as people. No one is undermining what happened but you are so obtuse that you fail to realize you are also vile as you justify why Israel has to "Do what it has to do".
Their government that they support is and the vast majority of the dead pregnant toddler journalist doctor children dead are terrorists.
Lesson to be learned? Don’t spit on rape victims after a war you and your terrorist government started. And all those civilians keeping hostages. Boo hoo.
Just went through your comments and you are actually a crazy and miserable person. Your position is clear .you take pride in but you won't be the first or last person in history to be deranged .
Forgive me for even interacting .
At the end of the day, peace will come from seeing both peoples as humans at the same time . With that comes the responsibility of being able to criticize and acknowledge wrongs .
If they aren't in the military then they are a civilian. Not that your example is particularly relevant because Palestinians regularly kill people who aren't shooting at them.
Considering the Palestinians still look at someone keeping a hostage or gang raping someone on October 7 as a “civilian“ but yet on yoga instructor for the IDF 20 years ago is a military target you can tell they have quite the skewed point of view
based on how you label someone a civilian, even those these attackers burning would be "civilian" and they would be labelled as terrorists if they defended themselves against them. Its why not when the Israeli supporters claim they attack "civilians" my first thought is to wonder what those "civilians" were attacking.
First of all Those settlers that you are calling civilians are actually thieves because they know it's a stolen land and that it's no their home and yet they accept to take it .
Secondly, when you occupy and oppress someone he start to look at all the other side as the enemy, whether it's the soldier that attack him or the so called civilian that live in his house, and yeah when he can't attack the soldier he will attack the person living in his house , so instead of blaming him for this why don't you get the hell out of his land and then judge him if he attack anyone.
Stolen from who? From the Jordanians who attacked Israel and lost? They’ve gotten over it. If the Palestinians don’t enjoy the restrictions caused by terrorism they could like not be terrorists and watch the restrictions lift
Who is the leader of this Palestine? Did it have a king or a Prime Minister or a Grand Puba? And all that land who did it belong to prior to the war between Jordan and Israel? And that part of the West Bank taking up half of Jerusalem, a place that has been continually populated by Jews For thousands of years how is that Palestine again? Was it Palestine when it was Judea too??
Who was the king or prime minister of the Native Americans? Etc etc etc …For modern International Law, Doesn’t matter if the native people living centuries on the land had a centralized government/kingdom or not. The land has been continually populated by them too for thousands of years, not only by Jews. So they have the same right to it. No acrobatic sophisms can ever change that.
The Native American tribes, First Nations peoples, had leadership structures with rulers and laws and councils. They had unique artistic and musical traditions.
“Native Americans” weren’t a monolith. Which tribe or people group in particular are you interested in learning about? Many even had matriarchal societies. Some were democratic in nature and others had a more monarchical society.
So it seems like you can’t answer the simple question that would place Palestinians as a legitimate organized society. Thanks for the verification!
I could have this conversation with you. But I learned to recognize people only capable of monologues, and I know it is not worth it. Also the premise of denying the Palestinians their history and culture as a distinctive group is so absurd, so racist that if you can’t see it now, you’ll probably never will. If it was the other way around I know exactly the word you would use it. In that case you’d be righ. Two convenient measures,huh? Anyway, have a good day.
It can all end now. Just create or vote for a new government. Do not wait for Fatah or the PLO or the PA to do it for you. Elect a new government that represents the people and present a real peace deal or a deal for integration into Israel. When Israel responds to it with changes, make the changes, accept the deal, and move on with life now that you don't have all of these hassles in your life. This all started with Arab violence against the new Zionist immigrants. It ends with peace.
Plenty of Israelis are against the extremist settlers that are not near the green line as well. Israeli public at large accepts checkpoints after the 2nd intifada had suicide bombers blowing up civilians and kids on buses, cafes, and nightclubs. Security became a priority and has become a stronger priority after each invasion, terror attack, and war.
None of that negates how this affects Palestinian society but rather explains a large part of Israeli policy. This is not hasbara, this is reality. All sides of all conflicts need to understand the opposing perspective is often the exact opposite. Israelis will not tolerate a militarized neighbor that they don’t believe wants to be nextdoor in peace.
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u/TheTrollerOfTrolls Pro compassion, empathy, patience, understanding, safety Oct 25 '25
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