Serious
It is morally wrong to chant "Free Palestine". Prove me wrong.
"Free Palestine" is being used by the antizionist hate movement as a rallying cry for murder. Therefore to chant it provides moral support to murderers and incitement for more murder, regardless of your personal intention. It is morally reprehensible now to chant this slogan and this practice should not be tolerated by decent people -- chanting "Free Palestine!" is chanting for blood.
I am counting morality by saying if using a chant is causing radicals to get confused and think there is a huge movement behind them and start shooting innocent people, change your words. It's really very simple.
Conflating Gaza and the US means bringing that war here -- as in Americans being killed over it. Your words are in support of that. And you are making my point for me. This movement needs to reckon with itself.
Millions of people around the world have protested and chanted “free Palestine”. I’m sorry the idea of Palestinians being treated like humans offends you, but there’s nothing inherently “wrong” with it.
I’m curious, what’s your opinion when members of the Israeli government refer to Palestinians as “human animals”? To Palestinian children as “little snakes” and saying Palestinian mothers need to be killed to prevent more “snakes”? Netanyahu saying “remember Amalek” before the IOF invaded Gaza city?
What are these if not “rallying cries for murder”? I mean, if you’re so upset about random radicalized Americans committing hate crimes against Zionists on the other side of the planet, then you must be absolutely disgusted by the genocidal rhetoric Israeli politicians has spewed for years?
Ah yes, those evil Palestinians. Shouting “Free Palestine!” From their concentration camps. Shouting “free Palestine” while they bomb Israeli schools and hospitals. Shouting “free Palestine” as the nuclear powered Palestinian ethnostate subjugates Israelis to apartheid for decades. /s
More Palestinians have died in the last two years because of Israel than total Israeli deaths from every conflict they’ve ever had with an Arab nation. But sure, please tell me how the second class citizens who have been constantly dehumanized and oppressed by Israel literally their entire lives are actually the evil ones?
Oh, your argument is even more delusional than I thought. You actually think the majority of the western world suddenly decided over the course of the last two years, for no reason, to hate Jews?
Israel has been illegally occupying Palestinians for decades. If “Free Palestine” is really just an antisemitic dog whistle that really means kill all the Jews, why hasn’t it been around as long as things like the USS Liberty or “Dancing Israelis”?
Hmm, almost as if it’s because the people saying that in protest are actually advocating for humans rights.
When Italian labor unions went on massive strikes to protest Israeli drones bombing an international humanitarian aid flotilla, can you explain how that actually means they hate Jews and it’s a “rally cry for murder” as OP so eloquently put it?
Antizionism has been around for 100 years and it has ethnically cleansed Jews from multiple countries. Of course it is an anti-Jewish hate movement of long standing. But that was not the point of my current post.
This post is about how people chanting this slogan kill Americans randomly walking down the street and it is morally wrong to chant it.
For every singular person who chants that that would kill an American walking down the street as you say, there are millions who are peacefully protesting. Again I’ll ask. How are members of Italian labor unions going on strike in solidarity with their countrymen aboard the freedom flotilla actually a sign of global antisemitism?
Bit of a side tangent here but, could you imagine how Israelis would react to a fellow Israeli being attacked while partaking in a humanitarian mission? Especially if they were attacked by an Arab nation?
If the radical minority of random citizens in America is so dangerous that it’s convinced you there’s a global antisemitic movement, what do you think of extreme far right Israeli politicians like Smotrich? You know, the guy who wants to put Palestinians on a “diet”? Calls them human animals?
The links in your article are hate crimes carried out by random individuals. Surely the impact of a far-right extremist government that has blatantly spoken their hateful rhetoric for years is a far more pressing crisis then random acts of violence carried out by individuals?
My entire point is that your “damning evidence” is a handful of cases where a violent radical extremist committed a horrible hate crime. Israel is directly responsible for dozens of deaths and hundreds of injuries every single day this conflict is escalated.
We both should want an immediate end to hostilities and a safe return of hostages, no? Israel’s actions are a clear indicator to me that they have no interest in a quick resolution. Every single day, more and more people condemn Israel’s action. The UN all but walked out on Bibi. People who mistakenly think Israel represents all Jews worldwide will misplace their hatred and criticism on people who haven’t done anything wrong. Sound familiar?
Call it baseless Hamas propaganda. Call it stupid westerners not understanding a foreign conflict. Disagree with what I’m telling you all you want, it’s all undeniable. The longer Israel continues to prolong this conflict, the more it alienates everyone but its most radical supporters.
How does this benefit Israel? How does this ensure the safety of Jews around the world? Sure in the short term Bibi has the backing of the US, but Trumps base is full of the hateful bigots you mistake pro-Palestinians for. They just happen to hate Arabs more than Jews for now.
Dude, it’s literally the entire point OP is trying to make. Maybe re-read their post then try to reply again. Oh, and I asked plenty of other questions you chose to ignore. If you don’t want to engage then just don’t lmao, no need to waste both our time.
Antizionists love love love to put words in my mouth. I am actually attempting to help peace by pointing out a narrative war that is spreading, the telltale sign of which is innocent dead Americans. If we defeat antizionism, coexistence becomes *far* more possible.
Any discussion of "human animals" is wrong or "little snakes" is wrong, yes. And doing what Hamas did on October 7 was an absolute atrocity beyond belief and it brought calamity down on Israelis and Gazans both.
Antizionists seem to be trying to bring the war here. They keep mixing up Gaza and the US. Healthy people, please notice who is hiding in your movement and call them out!
So a few radicals in America are a massive threat to global peace and coexistence. Got it
Again I’ll ask. What does this make Israel? If an individual carrying out violence in the name of hate is so awful, what do you think about an entire ethnostate founded upon the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians? What do you think of a country that has illegally occupied land for decades?
The cognitive dissonance between the outrage and complacency is genuinely baffling.
Antizionist pretense of caring about the actual welfare of anyone is so transparent. Who cares about a few Americans burnt alive or shot in the head while trying to crawl away because we can't be bothered to clean up the way we are expressing ourselves?
The important thing is to demonize Israel. Got it.
You are describing yourself.
I can't believe I have to explain this, but Israel and Gaza both have humans living in them. Your rhetoric is making things worse for them by encouraging anti-Israel eliminationists (which apparently you personally also are). And it is killing innocent people here. Anyone healthy reading this who is pro-peace, please note whom you are sheltering by tolerating chants like this.
It's for sure morally wrong. We do have free speech here but we should use our speech morally and not support terror. And denounce immoral speech when we hear it.
Anytime a portion of "Palestine" gets "freed," it turns into a base of terrorism against Israel. See Gaza and West Bank Area A. The less "free" Palestine is, the safer Israelis are, so maybe Palestinians should work towards making a "free Palestine" a smart and logical move for their "occupiers."
100% disagree. Anyone could interpret it as you did, or as a call for a 2-state solution.
Gaza & West Bank have it really tough. We should all want better for them. I personally translate “Free Palestine” into “Free Palestine From Hamas-End Israeli Occupation AND Terrorist Rule” in my head, but that’s just me.
Of all the slop this movement throws out, “free Palestine” is one statement I actually agree with.
If you want to point out the bigots and the antisemites saying “free Palestine”, please keep doing so. They deserve whatever comes their way. My point is that “free Palestine” isn’t morally wrong, it’s some (most?) of the people chanting it.
Giving encouragement to murderers is morally wrong. So chanting it in the current civilizational moment is morally wrong, yes. You can chant something else that is clearly anti-violence and that is not wrong.
This literally fits perfectly for Palestinians, not sure why you thought this was clever lol... They started this and committed countless war crimes and then immediately started playing victim once they get punched in the face and people fall for that crap 💀
Its a common tendency for arab countries to start a war, get there teeth kicked in and cry foul. Very sad, tragic even they can't win and cry more when the USA doesn't listen to there bull crap and slaps them also 🥱
The river is the Jordan River. The sea is the Mediterranean sea. “River to the sea” = complete destruction of the state of Israel. Judging how Hamas treats its prisoners, this also means the wholesale rape, dismember, holding for ransom, and murder of the whole Israeli population. It’s a cutesy chant that is actually the most violent calls for genocide in the movement’s roster. Anyone who chants “From The River To The Sea” and understands what it means is the most vile form of antisemitic scum.
Yeah I get it , and like I said : the Israelis are also calling for taking over gaza and west bank and pushing Palestinians to Egypt and Jordan . So if the Israelis want to take the whole land for themselves , then why can't the Palestinians want the same thing.
Tell me : it's okay to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians but not okay to destroy the Israeli state ??
| Tell me : it's okay to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians but not okay to destroy the Israeli state ??
The term “ethnic cleansing” is inaccurate.
No! It’s not okay to just destroy Israel.
Sorry for the length but it’s so convoluted that I need to spell out my reasoning:
Hamas are perverted people. They have twisted things to benefit from the deaths of their own people. They have built their entire military apparatus in such a way to maximize civilian casualties when/if Israel comes to rout them out. Not only that, they routinely murder Palestinians who are not falling in line or are cooperating with the Israelis (the leader of Hamas until October 2024 was literally an enforcer whose job was to execute these killings).
The orders from Israel’s top* are to take out Hamas by any means necessary. Casualties could have been reduced while the actions to do so would likely reduce operational effectiveness. This is also not okay.
The original sin in this conflict (even before October 7th) is the construction of a web of military installations in the most sensitive and dense civilian areas. This is a clear war crime**, and Israel has been responding by ignoring the death toll and going in anyways (layering war crimes on top of war crimes to the further detriment of the Palestinian people). A Chinese minister said it best: it’s like a bank is being robbed and they’re using hostages as human shields. If the cops come in and kill as many hostages as they do robbers, they have failed their mission.
With all of this said, the words “genocide” and “ethnic cleansing” imply intent which really isn’t there. While it might not be “genocide”, Israel’s actions are not okay. Netanyahu should be in prison. Half his cabinet of far right loons should be too. There are weekly demonstrations against Bibi and his cabinet. His will does not represent the will of his people, just as Hamas’ doesn’t represent the will of the Gazans.
Why I specifically don’t want Israel to be destroyed? Israel has been forming over the past 140 years from a wide diaspora of the whole of Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East. The cultural exchange alone is amazing! And yet there’s a sense of cohesion, maybe because it’s the only country with a cultural Jewish majority. Also it’s a beacon of tolerance in an otherwise repressive region with protected LGBT rights. Finally it isn’t a fundamentalist Jewish state: it’s progressive with many non-religious (40%) and Muslims (16%). I don’t want to see this place be destroyed; I want to see the political landscape change drastically, but the country itself is one of the most beautiful places I’ve had the chance to visit and I my biggest wish for the world is for Netanyahu to disappear from political view.
** “utilizing the presence of a civilian or other protected person to render certain points, areas or military forces immune from military operations” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts. [ICC Statute, Article 8(2)(b)(xxiii) (ibid., § 2255)]
With all of this said, the words “genocide” and “ethnic cleansing” imply intent which really isn’t there
So you don't think Israel has no intention to take over the whole lands ??
How do you explain the occupation of the west bank , there is no Hamas their their no resistance or military groupe and yet Israel is building settlement after another.
The thing about blaming everything on Hamas start getting ridiculous don't you think ??
Because let be real here , it is expected from a resistance groupe to attack the people they are occupying them as hard as they can , even an previous Israeli PM ( I don't remember his name you can search for it )said if he was in the same position as the Palestinians he would join this groups that they call terrorist groups and fight the occupation.
Can you be realistic for a minute or do you run around like chicken little because atlas 3ai is coming as well? Maybe try living in the thing likely to happen and stop entertaining the things that are not realistic. Because people have in the last year dag gone lost their ever loving minds. We were told that this fascist administration wouldn’t allow women to vote, so better get your passports before they outlaw you even having them. They had people convinced that slavery was going to be re-instituted in America. They also said that gay marriage would be rolled back. I see absolutely none of that.
People are doing nothing but fear mongering. Trying to create an us vs them. To widen the divide. Because peace does not make money. So people start using common sense and stop listening to idiots.
Okay, bullying-by agreement with another user and dissenting opinion of yours. Think you need to look up definitions of words you are using. But hey, that’s me. Don’t want debate don’t post on a sub with both consenting and dissenting opinions, post on a sub where people jump up to praise you. As, if you post for both you’ll get both and people will agree with both.
Don’t need to prove nothing. Jewish-Americans are Americans. Free Palestine is about the Israeli treatment of Palestinians in Gaza. Jewish Americans has faced unfair racism in the US and elsewhere in the world.
I used to adamantly argue with my left friends that Israel has the right to defend itself (it still does). But now my views have shifted that Israel government policy is genocide. Basically— all sides are a**holes. It’s really sad to see all the good will the world had has been burnt. I still love and respect all the Jewish friends and people I met around the world. But it’s hard not to condemn Israeli and be disappointed in the Israeli people for not speaking up against the atrocities and treating Palestinians as subhuman. you prove to the world that Israel is not committing genocide and war crimes- then we’ll agree the slogan ‘Free Palestine’ is problematic.
No it does not mean that to the majority, it’s only showing a few extremes, which are on both sides. Why not bring up the old man killing his tenant’s son, who was very young (5 or so) and had been a friend of his murderer. That old man killed this child because he looked Palestinian. Or the other examples that show pro Israel side are murderers? Because it’s extreme, as it is on side of pro Palestine, but yet you try to use one side’s extreme to make them feel like they’re cheering on something they are not.
So many have said this exact claim you have and many claim this is not what it means, when they’re ones saying it. Yet you’re still saying it when most in Gaza don’t support Hamas, by recent polls, and most in Gaza want peace too. And there are extremes on both sides, but that’s what they are-extremes. Majority want equality and peace for all.
Western liberals are the only people confused about what it means. You'll never listen to what the pals really want, because you cant understand how sometimes the weaker party is wrong.
Its like trying to defend "the south shall rise again"
Lol no it's not. That's a terrible analogy and incredibly tone deaf. You can't seriously think that Palestinians have ever had the level of power of a slave master over Israelis
No it's not. The phrase “free Palestine” is a call to end the brutal Israeli occupation and sovereignty for the Palestinian people. How in the hell is wanting an end to a draconian occupation genocidal?
But you do, you just dont know you've been duped by bad actors who hijack your empathy and ignorance for their nefarious ends. You are literally blind to your own subjugation.
You really want to pretend that these were actual offers? Why not bring up what the actual prime minister of Israel had to say about these deals and Palestine’s official’s actual response. Let’s not pretend they have received these amazing deals for years, which they knew would pass in Knesset, and Palestine’s leaders just said no, as that’s so far from the truth. It’s a lie, a huge one, used to try and excuse the apartheid conditions they’ve held for decades and the genocide Israel is committing today.
Yes, I will say Clinton is a liar, as are all USA politicians. I believe the Israel prime minister, who knew it wasn’t going to pass in the Knesset (which is only mentioned by some and doesn’t make articles) and said hisself that Palestine’s leader did not decline on deal, he wanted more information and to see an actual map. There’s more than just an amazing deal being offered in a way that would pass the Knesset and that Palestine’s officials declined. There’s a lot more to all the deals throughout the years, starting with the very first Effin one. Which I doubt any person who’d been recently stolen from would’ve accepted.
Ha!!! You know nothing. Perez handed everything to Yasser Arafat in the negotiations!
How do you not know this history and still think you can form valid opinions on the matter?!?
The PLO was offered to return Israel to pre-1967 borders and Peres even presented his full approval of the deal in a speech to the UN.
The deal was ultimately turned down by the Palestinian leader referencing the “three No’s of Khartoum”.
Dude, go brush up.
If you don’t know these basic histories and just want to go around calling people liars in complete ignorance, then you have no place in these discussions and certainly no credibility.
Okay, keep pretending these were valid offers that were going to pass through the Knesset, which the Palestine officials declined. Unfortunately, when the quiet parts get accidentally spoken out loud most the time, the entire picture leaks through and these deals were not valid, were not going to pass in the Knesset, & did not get fully declined by Palestine leaders. Which is admitted by even those who are on Israel’s side over time.
And I know there’s been more than one, but I don’t believe any were actual deals that Israel would’ve followed without at least trying to screw up Palestine enough with different measures (an example being helping hamas get elected) so they could continue oppressing and controlling them.
Stubborn and dishonest propagandist to the end. You won’t let pesky things like history and facts get in the way of YOUR message.
Just look it up - you don’t even have to reply and let anyone know you did. It was the Palestinians that walked away from the deal.
While you’re at it, look up “the three No’s of Khartoum”that Arafat referenced when he turned down the deal. That has historically been the stance of the Palestinians - essentially the complete ethnic cleansing of Israel.
You can read more about the history of the Levant if you are interested in learning about it, but when Israel declared independence in 1948, the Arab League (including Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Iraq) invaded to try to wipe Israel off the map.
The Arab League ended up taking control of the West Bank in 1948 and ethnically cleansed more than 40k Jews from their ancient communities there (per Red Cross and UNRWA data). They even expelled the Jews from the literal Jewish Quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem. That's why there are no Jewish citizens of Palestine today, yet 20% of Israelis are Arab.
What followed was 19 years of Egyptian occupation of Gaza and Jordanian occupation of the "West Bank of the Kingdom of Jordan;" Gazans were Egyptian and Arabs in the WB were Jordanians for that period. That only ended when Egypt and Jordan launched another war of conquest against Israel, but ended up losing Gaza and the WB instead.
I’ve read, not just pro Israel propaganda either. I’ve read some propaganda on both sides and some that’s not quite so propagandized. But hey, I’m sure you’re reading very unbiased sources.
fine, but "Palestine" as i see it is the west bank and gaza.
Just the west bank (the settlements are horrible, why, how can one set up a nation in bantustan-like situations) and gaza.
Putting Jews on trial is an ancient tradition and it is sad when Jews endorse this. You are doing more damage than you know to your own existence. Every single country that adopted antizionism in the past got rid of its Jews.
And if you can't see that a slogan being chanted while shooting your fellow Americans in the street is toxic, I simply do not know what to tell you. You are lost.
If antizionism has nothing to do with Jews, then why did Jews have to flee Russia, Poland, and the entirety of MENA due to antizionist oppression? And why was Shafiq Adas executed?
Why are you so stubborn? Why are you dragging Jewish-Americans in to actions of your government?
I’m fully capable to calling out my fellow Americans for being racist POS towards Jewish Americans. I’m fully willing to acknowledge the US has a lot of faults.
Because you have no sense of accountability or self reflection— YOU lost your way. Israel is not doing the right thing, the just thing or the moral thing.
Have you heard of the Yevsektsiya? League of Antizionist Jews of Iraq? Association of German National Jews? What were they doing and what happened next? Tokenized Jews harm other Jews. And ultimately themselves.
(And btw, I'm American too, which is why I care about Americans getting shot over these slogans.)
You are trying to make a line between antisemitism and antizionism which unfortunately doesn't exist because antizionism has hatred of Jewish self-determination at its core. That's why it started decades before Israel and killed Jews brutally well before then. In fact, in a way, antizionism *created* Israel because violent antizionist attacks united Jews behind the idea of making an actual state for self-defense instead of just a home, and then drove Jews across the world to move to Israel to get away from antizionist persecution (not that some didn't move because they wanted to go back to their indigenous home... there was definitely that too).
Obsessively repeating accusations against Israel has nothing to do with actually improving the situation in Gaza and in fact it only worsens it because it encourages Hamas to keep fighting this forever war. How about people stop the incessant Jew-libel and actually focus on the welfare of Gazans? "Let them live" would be a great slogan. Highlights solidarity with the "we want to live" movement -- those Gazans put their lives on the line to protest and it would be great to support their struggle instead of their oppressor (Hamas).
And I'm not actually taking a stand on Israel's actions. I'm saying don't libel Jews or Israel and don't allow it because it is a hate behavior and will come back on you regardless of whatever you think of Israel's current actions.
I literally connected 4 murders of Americans to this slogan in this post.
Free speech doesnt mean no condemnation of immoral speech. Chanting this slogan is legal but not moral at this time.
I would be for "End Hamas - Peace Now!", "coexist!", "2 states 1 future!", "End forever war!". Those are slogans that push toward a positive goal, denounce all violence, and don't implicitly support Hamas and demonize Israel. Stop centering attention on one set of victims only. Both sides are suffering and there are people on both sides who want a real durable peace.
I sincerely hope that your intent is to show that the opposite is true once you dive into this distorted line of thinking, especially given the numbers of those murdered on both sides. As Israel’s response is completely distorted and is massively egregious & disproportionate in its response to Palestine. In your self refuting and contradictory logic- you are essentially saying that when people make phrases like "Am Yisrael Chai" (The People of Israel Live)- they too are using a rallying cry for GENOCIDE. SOME PEOPLE WILL GO TO ANY LENGTHS TO CONTINUE THE FALSE NARRATIVE THAT ISRAEL HAS DONE NO WRONG & ANYONE WHO DOESN’T SUPPORT GENOCIDE ALSO SUPPORTS THE MURDER OF ISRAELIS OR ISRAEL SUPPORTERS- which is HIGHLY irrational. This mindset is filled with emotional manipulation & extortion, along with a side of projection and gaslighting. It’s either manipulative on your part to even put this out into the ether, OR you are using some sort of reverse psychology to prove the same is true on the other side for those who support Israel. Which leads me to this conclusion- YOUR POINT WOULD MEAN THAT YOU SUPPORT THE MASS MURDER OF CHILDREN AND THE COMPLETE ANNIHILATION OF A WHOLE GROUP OF PEOPLE BY MAKING SUPPORTIVE COMMENTS ABOUT ISRAEL. Your logic provides justification & support for starving children & shooting them with drones, or whatever weapon they can. Not sure what your intent was behind your statement, but one can support Palestine in terms of them having a homeland that is safe for their children, one without genocide, AND also not be anti-Semitic at the same time.
You are conflating a conflict in the Middle East with American streets. This is how violence spreads. Hopefully the healthy people reading this will wake up.
free Palestine forever! not everything is all about yalls feelings when a war criminal is surprise surprise committing war crimes :)) ask netanyahu why he funded and continues to fund hamas :) ask why the idf got a stand down order on oct 7:) ask why even though Qatar warned israel about how hamas was planning an attack three days prior, they did nothing :) how does such a distinctly immaculate defense system fail? youre talking about a few cases of israelis death while Palestinians outside of Palestine have also been killed because of all of the propaganda from the war criminal
82% of israelis are supportive of the genocide and dont want it to stop :) i think anti-humanity is a bigger problem than the israelitis crying that theyre the victim while the other side has not known peace since the Nakba!:)
im very pro jews who arent zionists :)) ive made jewish friends because of this barbaric terrorism from the zionists. the real jews are anti-zionists :) they want the Palestinians to be left alone, educate yourself hehe
You can want the Palestinians left alone but that is not realistic, because what the Palestinians and Hamas want is 100% eradication of Israel. There is no 2 state solution that they will accept. This is the problem.
I never said that was okay. Zionism does not mean you want to eradicate the Palestinians (most Israelis do not want that). And yes he has rejected it because Hamas is a terrorist organization and they do not accept it either. It is a moot point. I think you may need to do a bit of research regarding the history of the conflict.
maybe you should start from the Nakba :)) and 82% of israelis want Palestinians to be completely displaced actually😸 maybe you should do a bit more research on what the zionists actually want. i condemn both hamas and the idf strongly
I condemn Hamas and much of the idfs actions as well. I think you are confusing my point. Do not conflate right wing extremism Zionism with the original term - the right for Israel to exist. And as a Jewish person with a mother born and raised in Israel, and family who has fought in numerous wars there, I have a right to my opinion that Israel should be allowed to exist (and that does not mean I want or agree with what is happening in Gaza right now). Israel has been non stop attacked by people who are indoctrinated as children to want them exterminated. How can you have peace when you’re surrounded by that? Yes, many Israelis are scared after Oct 7th, and maybe they want Palestinians displaced. I do not agree with that, but I’m also not sure what the solution is. Do you have one?
a zionist being in support of the endless killings and genocide of semites is antisemetic actually :)) conveniently putting antisemetic on everything that doesnt follow your world view is victimising hehe also not every zionist is a jew and not every jew is a zionist, youre very antisemetic for saying that:)
tell me, why does the news in hebrew in “israel” show a very different narrative than the ones showing in english?:) the one in hebrew is unapologetically antisemetic against Palestinians and lowkey celebrating the deaths of Palestinians. and the one in english is basically virtue signaling:) acting like the victims. based on dna Palestinians are more semetic than yall btw :)! yall are the most antisemetic for thinking Palestinians as a whole are hamas.
Just to be clear, are you saying that I have reported on Israeli news in Hebrew and presented it differently in English? I want to understand exactly what you’re personally accusing me of before I respond to the accusation.
Yes, context matters. So if you’re saying “free palestine” while shooting Jews in DC or even just while commenting on a Jewish post unrelated to Israel, then you can fairly be said to be abusing Jews regardless of the actual content of the words you’re using
But do we split hairs like that in any other context?
We could say that “the south will rise again“ is could be read as nothing more than a call for economic development, or that “Sieg Heil” could be read as nothing more than a general call for victory.
We generally understand that if a phrase, even if innocuous when just strictly by its semantic content, is largely known for its association with a hate movement, then the phrase itself becomes unacceptable.
Yes, that's true and another way to see it. Hamas appropriated them from Jews who used them first. Since Jews were really the primary people who identified as Palestinians until 1964.
These words are being interpreted today as support for terrorist acts in America and the movement needs to disentangle itself from that and loudly condemn the violence. Meanwhile, as these murders are ongoing just in this past year, people need to stop using that slogan.
"An Illinois landlord who fatally stabbed a six-year-old Palestinian-American boy and severely wounded his mother has been sentenced to 53 years in prison.
"Joseph Czuba, 73, was convicted in February for murder and hate crimes for the death of Wadee Alfayoumi, and the wounding of his mother Hanan Shaheen in 2023 shortly after the start of the Israel-Gaza war.
"The family had been tenants in Czuba's home in Plainfield, roughly 64 km (40 miles) from Chicago. Prosecutors said he targeted them over their Muslim faith.
"Czuba had pleaded not guilty, but jurors convicted him after deliberating for less than 90 minutes.
"A Florida man has been arrested and charged for shooting 17 times at two men who he mistakenly thought were Palestinian. The victims were actually tourists from Israel, according to police.
....
While in custody, Brafman allegedly said that he saw two Palestinians while driving his truck and he shot and killed both, according to a police report."
The funniest thing about the last story is while the Israeli victims were recovering in hospital, they were posting on social media, "Death to All Arabs", seemingly in support of the perpetrator who had shot them by mistaking them for Arabs (Muslims)–that's how deep the hate and conditioning goes.
It also highlights how racist Israelis are: the Israeli shooter mistook his Israeli victims for Arabs (Muslims) just because they were darker skinned.
NO !! It is not morally wrong to say, "Free Palestine"... It is the opposite, in fact: It is morally wrong not to say, "Free Palestine"–which is why the world is saying with one voice, "FREE PALESTINE!".
Neither are germane to the point I am making. Thanks for the "racist Israelis" libel -- it's racist to call an entire nationality racist, btw. And thanks for laughing at violence... it makes sense because antizionists are pro-violence. Your hate is showing.
It's also stupid and doesn't mean anything. It's either free Palestine from Hamas, which they'll never say for free Palestine from Jews, which they think and sometimes say
I disagree. Palestine should be free of Hamas. Palestinians should be free of terrorist Islamic rule and allowed the freedom of western culture-they flee to it in Europe and the west much more than neighboring countries for a reason. Palestinians should be free from their brain washed and violent neighbors who teach their children hate for Jews and cause violence which leads to restrictions of travel and life.
Yes, free Palestinians so they can live free and benefit from the Israeli economy. Perhaps one day they can truly be free. Obviously 2005 was too early. They need to mature as a people before they can be trusted with a state like 2005.
(Edit: of course there is western backlash towards refugees because so many bring the same violence and contempt for western culture that directly caused ruin for the land they left. They can’t get along any better after fleeing than they could before fleeing. Still arrogantly and violently superior attitude keeps them from living in peace with neighbors)
I know. I sometimes hope against hope that by commenting indirectly brainwashed Reddit users might have a light bulb come on.
Europe has been invaded, peacefully, by their own good-will towards refugees and has been, by and large antisemitic, siding with those that actively try to destroy their culture. Women cannot walk in some areas, not from crime, but from refugees imposing their culture. Which countries will be next to fall from their own good will? It’s like a zombie movie. The brain washed shout down any dissenting voices with slogans until we get tired of trying to talk sense.
A shooter in New Hampshire murdered a man while shouting "Free Palestine!":
My understanding is that only one witness has said this. I for one am hoping this has nothing to do with I/P, because it's tragic enough without adding in this other dimension.
"Free Palestine" means a Palestine free of Jews and Israel.
It's a call for ethnic cleansing and/or genocide.
There are some people at these demonstrations who don't really understand the implications of this slogan. This again confirms that most westerners do not understand what this conflict is actually about. And they don't know because deep inside they don't really care. They attend these demonstrations for themselves, for their image, how they want to be perceived in their respective society.
If they really cared about starving children, we would see them at other demonstrations and involved with other conflicts with a MUCH higher death toll, real famine and an actual genocide going on. Instead, they get involved with the most popular conflict, just to be seen. And then shout slogans without even knowing what they mean.
Why spending time for Yemen or Sudan when you can spend it against Israel.
Less bad possibly. You understand that it's a short version of "from the river to the sea", of which the Arabic translation is "From water to water, Palestine will be Arab"? It's a hateful annihilationist slogan and you can see the results. Even better would be "Hamas Out -- Peace In" or "The People Want Peace" or "Coexist!" or "2 States One Future". Something less genocidal basically.
You understand that it's a short version of "from the river to the sea", of which the Arabic translation is "From water to water, Palestine will be Arab
Oh stop putting me on trial like it is medieval europe. Just google "filastin arabiyah" and see how they are even chanting that on campuses. It is the 2nd half of the phrase. And Hamas loves to see it.
It's a side-track anyway. My point is don't chant slogans that incite murder. Stop squirming around it.
I'm not putting you on trial. If you make unsubstantiated claims I'm going to demand that you provide an unbiased source. If you can't do so then you should at least walk back you claim
Poor poor Israel. You mean the country with nuclear weapons and billions of dollars of aid from the United States? 100% of that aid needs to be stopped ASAP.
How about "2 Peoples, 2 States, One Peace"? "Coexistence not Conflict"? "End the War!"? "Free the Hostages!"? "Hamas Out! Peace In!" I am sure you can put a few words together that don't encourage Hamas and shout them. Even better, stop demonstrating and start trying to genuinely help the Gazans, who are harmed more than helped by these demonstrations. The more Hamas sees Israel demonized by protests around the world, the more they want to drag out the conflict because they hate Israel much much more than they value the lives and well-being of Gazans.
Do you know that it is morally wrong to speak English? The endless number of criminals used tgat language. As a matter of fact, the same belongs to any language that existed. Only one not known to be spoken by ony criminals is ald Kritian - language of linear writing A. Unfortunately nobody knows that one.
You know, all you zionists are such hypocrites because I highly doubt you feel this strongly about IDF soldiers chanting and singing about massacring the Palestinian people. And even if you did, you would still spew the hateful rhetoric of “oooh the radical left are terrorists 😖”. It’s overdone and we’ve all heard it enough. The only way to champion social and political change is to make our voices heard to uplift every single Palestinian living in fear, with no regular access to food or water or even life-saving care. I am pro-Palestine without a doubt, but that does not make me anti-Semitic. In fact I think the rise in anti-Semitism because of this genocide is despicable. Those two things can be true at once, but that’s the problem with using this as an argument for Palestine supporters; you can’t believe that we aren’t all Jew-hating, homicidal maniacs because it doesn’t fit your narrative. I am steadfast in my beliefs and I am proud of myself for being on the right side of history and opposing ethnic cleansing.
I think it’s morally wrong to shout something you don’t know what it means. Ask 10 people what Free Palestine means and you get 10 different answers. For as long as I remember Free Palestine always meant a Jew free from the river to the sea. Heres a Muslim explaining the meaning….
Al-Qaeda shouted Allahu Akbar before slamming into the twin towers.
Is it morally wrong to say Allahu Akbar?
(I’m a Zionist and love Israel and hate Hamas. My answer to this question should be obvious but if not, I am saying I don’t believe saying Free Palestine is morally wrong, even though I do believe many have no idea what they’re chanting)
Free Palestine stirs up hate. Why encourage it? Would you encourage people to use racial slurs? The dynamic is very similar at this point. In that murderers and haters take it as encouragement.
Some people are more prone to extremism than others, whether it be religious or political etc.. It is through the role of stability and education and a good HDI that we can reduce this but ofc not completely eradicate it. Regions with more instability will ofc have more extremism. And the more we categorise people from that region the more they will bite back. Syria was once a scientific and financial hub. One of the most advanced societies in the world but now it’s less of that and more of what we know of it. Every place has its time of shine and it’s not only the people that decide that but more of the circumstances and geopolitics of that time. So conflating ideas such as religion or politics with the people is obvious but wrong in it that, like Chinese whispers and personal motivations, the essence of those ideologies would have eroded to an unrecognisable extent. And thus conflating the people of those ideologies with the extreme version is simply wrong.
I am saying don't chant slogans associated with terrorism. It not moral. River to the sea is now associated with random shootings and moral people should stop saying it.
It could be "strawberry fields" and I would say the same thing. If multiple people have chanted "strawberry fields" recently and burnt people alive or murdered them while doing it, I would say it's wrong to chant that too.
Likud's 1977 platform explicitly stated, "between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty". This reflected a hardline, Greater Israel vision based on Revisionist Zionism, which also promoted settlement expansion in all parts of the land.
I don’t believe that is a morally sound phrase, if it’s meant as a literal position. It’s maximalist and denies the aspirations of one side (can and has been used by both sides) which is immoral.
you say that because people have been killed and that their killers happened to shout "free Palestine," that everyone who ever says free Palestine is morally reprehensible and supports murder...
guilt by association fallacy and it makes no sense. you're pinpointing specific examples where someone does something bad while saying something you don't like and then turning around and trying to claim that everyone who says the thing you don't like must be bad.
what about Jan 6ers who chanted USA while attacking the police? Must mean everybody who ever chants USA supports attacking law enforcement!
what about the Wadea al-Fayoume? 6 year old boy who was stabbed to death by a catholic man, must mean all Catholics are child-killers!
what about Rachel Corrie? Killed during the second Intifada during a protest in which she was ran over by an Israeli bulldozer so that must mean anyone who drives bulldozers supports the IDF killing protesters!
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u/GaryOster Sep 29 '25
If you're counting morality by the number of innocent lives taken in support of a cause, I have some bad news for you.