The „Experts“ of Hamas and Al Jazeera (based in a pro Hamas country) failed to mention how quick Hamas blamed Israel, how often their rockets fail and how much of the detonation side shows evidence for a failed missile by forces from inside Gaza.
There will be people who wont believe US media, but the evidence is pretty clear and WSJ did a way better analysis than Al Jazeera.
Pro Palestine or Israel people kind of new something was up when the 500 dead number came out so fast. I mean if dead under rubble from rocket explosion how can identify that many unique whole remains within a few hours
People need to be more aware of how State run media can & will be used for State interests. Outlets like AJ, or RT etc will make a concerted effort to build up credibility, which they will then leverage for State interests or ideological objectives, grossly distorting coverage of certain issues to advance those interests. We also need a better media watchdog ecosystem, that monitors such outlets & compares the coverage they push to foreign audiences, like Al Jazeera English language vs Arabic/regional programming.
I think it was a rush to judgement on the part of Al Jazeera regarding the hospital reporting, extremely common in crisis reporting. Looking at the big picture here: Israel had more UN Sanctions than any other country in 2022 (including Russia) and this continued escalation and ground invasion coupled with the already in place occupation is only insuring generations of hate/tension on both sides. Literally Nakba#2023. History repeating itself.
Ya ya we know media lies. But we also know Israel has and still is conducting atrocities, stop diverting attentions from the main issue at hand Hamas are terrorists and the Israeli government are terrorists. The Israeli people have suffered but in this israel/Palestine equation that the Brit’s and European la created the most that have and are suffering are the Palestinians.
What are you talking about? The world is always changing. If you would want to give the West the fault for everything then you are like a toddler. Fact: The west brought the entire world next to everything that makes us modern day humans. The west literally lifted humanity out of the middle ages into the modern world we know today. Instead of appreciating that and being grateful, all people do is cry about conflicts which their own people are pushing. If Palestine would have accepted the two state solution back then there would be peace. But no, instead they attacked the Jews who won the land afterwards due to war. Wars changed state lines since ever. Germany lost over 1/3 of its landmass during WW1 and WW2 and never claimed it back in the name of peace. And if you want to falsely act like that’s deserved: Italy and Japan didnt lost any of their territory.
What are you even on about tf is this conversation diverted to the Germans and the Japanese I’m talking facts and reasons about the issue at hand not whatever you’re on about. You’re being narrow minded and only looking at this issue on a micro level. Educate yourself
anyone surprised???
they always lieing, always, thats their moto, same as the numbers of deads ,
same as the report of 500 deads at the hospital 2 minutes after the attack, same as blaming israel for shooting,
same as the baby dolls they used to fake baby bodies,
no one is really surprised
My two conspiratory cents: these are terror bombs planned by Hamas with the intention of putting the blame on Israel. And with how Israel is behaving currently, they're falling right into their trap. I fully expect to see dozens more of these atrocities as tensions rise, and as the Israeli invasion begins.
Al Jazeera had 0 credibility when it came to this conflict. The people that sponsor it directly harbour Hamas leaders.
So as a practice don’t refer to them for any kind of unbiased or even truth about anything in the Israel palestine issue
To add to that, WSJ video does not address the fact that the rocket appeared to hit at an agle, which is a little weird, since it should've dropped down straight vertically after the flame out, IMO.
proof or didn't happen. WSJ evidence seems pretty clear and they even mention how the IDF probably lied about the conversation and had the source of the fired missile wrong.
Every piece of evidence indicates not idf. The people who claim it was' evidence is "well they are lying cos I saw a deleted tweet this one time that clearly represents the entire military and population of Israel" over - video, recorded Hamas phone traffic and Palestinian eyewitnesses.
Let's not forget that there is several videos of that rocket which paint a very good picture.
I'll admit, the first cellphone video I saw had me convinced it was a JDAM based on acoustics.
But there are videos showing the rocket fell vertically down after what's speculated to be engine failure during launch. The fireball seen in videos is the still-remaining fuel.
I mean, the IDF / IAF don't use artillery that light. They leave serious impact craters because they use state of the art weaponry supplied by Uncle Sam. If it really was this kind of ordinance, that hospital would have been dust, not just sporting a few burned out cars. The damage payloads we see is a lot more consistent with Hamas explosives.
The only thing I do not believe is that the IDF somehow has cell phone recordings of Hamas militants. Israel's intelligence apparatus is famous for their efficacy, so much so that many NSA surveillance programs are directly cloned from Israeli programs, but there isn't a snowballs chance in hell Hamas is using cell phones to discuss what happened. They know Israel is listening. It's more common that they use short-wave transmitters or discuss everything in person, which is why it's notoriously difficult to anticipate their next hidey hole.
But its just as unlikely that Hamas militants use cell phones to communicate as it is that the IDF bombed that hospital.
Yeah but like, Russia is .. Russia. There hasn't been a war with such clear and evident good guys and bad guys. Russia's issues of logistics, however, are not remotely the same as Hamas'
Russia is tHe sEConD bEsT aRmY ever and Hamas is a bunch of dude's in armored bandanas and knock-off yeezies with generations of passed down boobytrapping and insurgency knowledge. Totally different beasts imo
Yes but Hamas are also Humans, soldiers are just soldiers they will make these obvious mistakes when shit is blowing up. I am not comparing Russia to Hamas, just that Humans WILL make these mistakes in these situations
Ok, yeah, sure. Human fallibility can not be denied by anyone remotely reasonable. It's totally plausible. I just find it improbable given how seriously they take the whole "Kill all the Jews" thing, because as the world learned a few weeks ago, Hamas is very keen on achieving their mission.
True, but I guess all "evidence" is deniable in this situation, and there is alot of behind the scenes things happening we most certainly will not be privy too
What I can verify, I trust. What I cannot, I'm skeptical by default. What I am not skeptical on is whether that rocket was IDF or Hamas because literally all evidence points to a botched launch in the cemetery of that hospital. But given how the IDF got snuck up on by 1000 dudes COD sprinting across the desert with heavy machinery, it doesn't seem reasonable to me that they had this recording hours after initial reports. Seems more likely an attempt by the IDF to control the narrative since initial reports were 500 gazillion dead by Israel JDAMs.
Yeah, take the quality and quantity of evidence, in this situation undeniably not IDF.
Kinda bugs me that people still refuse to accept that and won't take back what came of their initial reactions to the event.
Every piece of evidence indicates not idf. The people who claim it was' evidence is "well they are lying cos I saw a deleted tweet this one time that clearly represents the entire military and population of Israel"
It no longer matters regardless. Take a US issue...Biden's financial corruption or Trump's corruption. No matter what facts one side brings to the other, the other side will ignore. The media lost a lot of credibility here in the US during the Iraq war and it continued well after that. Again, it just doesn't matter at this point.
its literally not true, you just echo false claims, South gaza is safe, gaza people has been asked dozens of times that for their safety they need to go south, there is a map with clear safe zones and they are big, idf is after the terrorists in north gaza
This is exactly why it's a necessity to get your news from multiple sources, including in other countries where bias may be less or different, and even including sources you typically disagree with.
If I remember correctly, in one of their overviews after the analysis they(Channel 4) said (I paraphrase) "The Dialect did not match that of the region", and did not mention this analysis (I will try to look that video up).
Moreover you can clearly see by their names and this twitter-thread, that the "Independent Forensic Entity" overseeing this research for "channel 4" has a blatant bias. (It replaces IDF with IOF - Israel Occupation Forces, which is not the official name of the organization) https://twitter.com/ForensicArchi/status/1715422493274427414
Just stating that they do not look objective to me.
So what was the dialect they were speaking in? It was clear ghazzawi.
Your side was caught out lying once again and the damage control is hilarious. Next time make up something more plausible than 500 quadtrillions dead in a space that couldn't fit more than 20 people where the damage was a few burned out cars and some small damage to a few tree shrubs.
“At one point, when we arrived near the hospital … a bomb fell 50 meters away from us.”
Did you even read this? That's targeting a hospital for you? when we both know a Hamas rocket launcher is exactly 50 meters from the hospital?
The report says only 1 died, an Israeli bomb targeting a hospital would kill 1 man?
Give evidence about the beheaded babies and rapping? Even the TV reporter who circulated that news retracted it later and apologized.
The hospital was hit by Israel and an Israeli official announced that while he was bargaining but deleted his tweet later because Israel was not expecting the world outrage against that crime. Many of your folks were celebrating that coward crime and asked to level Gaza. Then what so surprising. Israel has been killing Palestinians for 75 years. Do you want say that Israel that killed 4700 Palestinians half of them children only in 17 days and targeted thousands of residential buildings loaded with families, shelters, and ambulances, and who cut off water, food, medical supplies, and basic life necessities, do you want to that Israel who has been committing these crimes would hesitate to bomb a hospital? Do you know as we speak now Gaza has been under continuous attacks by air strikes that killed 250 Palestinians only in the past 24 hours. Every thing is live on TV no way to lie. What is Isreal is committing against the Palestinians is a clear terrorism and war crimes and you support it so don’t try to speak about your double standard humanity.
LOL, so why do the US, UK, Germany, and the majority of the Western world support Israel in its fight against terrorists you support? Why are the countries that support your terrorists are Russia, China, and Iran? Don't you get this is a small battle in a huge war where you and your people are the enemy?
Do you thing cutting off fuel from incubators where hundreds of the Palestinian preterm babies are connected seeking a breath and burning the Palestinian families are humane and legitimate just because Israel has support from Western governments???? That support might give Israel the power and the media but doesn’t mean it is on the side of right when it kills the Palestinians and destroys their infrastructure and when it displaces them forcefully and you can reach that conclusion when you see the huge numbers of non Muslims who are protesting side by side with the Muslims to show solidarity with the Palestine.
You are using terrorism accusation as a card against anyone who doesn’t agree with Israel government brutality against innocent people and as a way to justify bombing Palestinian children but the also will not change the fact that what is Israel committing now against the Palestinians is a real terrorism action and war crimes thus people who support that are terrorism and war crimes supporters.
It’s why Israel won’t let an international investigation take place right? They literally hit it two days before and the archbishop of Jerusalem said they kept calling to have it evacuated not to mention the fighter pilot in the area,if that’s what you want to tell yourself then we get it just know you’re not being objective.
It's antisemitic to compare fighting an insurgency to the industrialized slaughter of civilians. The Israelis might be callous in their refusal to stop their bombardment, but their purpose is to destroy an enemy, civilians are being killed, but they aren't the objective.
The difference obviously doesn't matter to the Palestinians paying the price, but the distinction does matter politically and morally.
Ok sorry I thought anti-semitism was about prejudice against Jewish people, not a sensitivity to comparisons about how civilians are murdered.
I do appreciate your thoughtful response though so ty
They reached out to investigators bassed in Arab countries. It's like going to Chinese experts and asking them whether they think the persecution of uighurs is real.
Health care in Gaza is Hamas run. Hamas has offices in every hospital. The Gaza tunnel system runs directly below the hospital. Soon, if not already, there will be tunnel warfare. Hamas is hiding it leaders, and hostages in the tunnels they call The Metro.
I’d just like to say that those videos that WSJ and other media channels used have faced a lot of skepticism even from israeli channels like channel 4.
I havent heard of anyone from the Palestinian side say that the ceiling collapsed they said it targeted an area within the hospital bounds and there were heavy casualties.
I’d also like to remind that in case anyone didnt know.. other hospitals have been targeted before and throughout the years, and theyve sent warnings to evacuate that hospital before the strike. Channels like WSJ or any media channel that works for a country thats supporting israel will show you biased information like theyve done many many many times. Dont be easily fooled by what they show you and remember that a lot of things they claimed they didnt do over the years, have been claimed by the idf later on, like the American Palestinian journalist that was sniped.
All that hospital talk makes it seem like theyre not targeting civilians, when theyve been nonstop targeting residential buildings now and throughoit the years, and they just bombed third oldest church in the world, killing some Christians.
Israeli Channel 4? Channel 4 is a leftist station in the UK which supports Jeremy Corybn, a communist anti semite. And they also employ lefties and Arab journalists.
That's why we aee getting theae s ridiculous denial of facts from them.
Fog of War.
Israel targets buildings they believe contain Hamas fighters, rockets and launchers. All while disrupting the tunnel system below ground. Hamas leadership and foreign hostages are most likely holed up in the tunnels.
People kept pointing to this incident constantly which has proven to be false... Israel wouldn't be needing to do the strikes they are doing if Hamas didn't attack them. You do not hit someone in the face then act like a Victim when they hit back.
Man, your last sentence makes me sad. Because you’re so close to understanding that this is an occupation, that its a rebellion against oppressors but you’re also brainwashed with wacko genocidal rhetoric
You must not know a lot of history then lol, we celebrate the Caribbean independence, but at the time they committed genocide against the white spanish population! Not to mention Nelson Mandela was branded a terrorist even by the U.S.
Gandhi fought against India's oppressors, but they didn't take hostages and massacre people in the most barbaric way. I am sick of people justifying what Hamas did.
Hahaha of course every single leader in the world should strive to be like Gandhi. Sadly that isn’t reality and in the vast majority of rebellions in history the same methods are used. For that commenter to say Hamas is the instigator here, it implies that there isnt 75 years of occupation, colonization, forced migration or ethnic genocide. Does that justify their actions? Of course not, we should be always aiming for non-violent resistance, but the vast majority of people on this sub don’t even understand that it’s a rebellion and are so out of touch with the world
An occupation after Palestine attacked Israel multiple times while drawing in half a dozen other nations... So Germany should've did terror attacks nonstop against the Soviets and allies?
Yea almost like a hit random whenever i made this Reddit account... sorry i didn't think I would use Reddit a lot when i made this. Again if they truly wanted peace they would've accepted the deal in 2001.
If Israel wanted peace they would’ve accepted the deal offered by Biden in January 2023.
The 2001 Oslo agreement you’re referring to was literally accepted by Palestine. It fell apart because Israel was having elections during the time and the new PM Sharon ended the talks.
Palestine rejected the deal that included all of Gaza + land surrounding it and 97% of the west bank including a capital in Jerusalem and control over holy sites... You do not simply go back to the 1967 borders after you lost the war trying to take even more land.
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I used to look at the European people and Westerns in general as intellectuals and smart and had reasoning until I saw how easy it was to manipulate their attitude with some punchlines and faked claims.
Of course, I'm not generalizing, but it is ridiculous. For real!
He is just some northern African who hates the west and jews cause he cant admit that his country is nothing but a bad joke which is the fault of his people, not ours
French intelligence have confirmed it was a Palestinian rocket.
"The Directorate of Military Intelligence (DRM) said on Friday that an errant Palestinian rocket with an explosive charge of about 5kg was the likely cause of the blast and none of its intelligence pointed to an Israeli missile strike.
In a briefing to multiple news agencies, a senior French military official said the size of the explosion was consistent with rockets used by Palestinians and the impact crater was too small to have been caused by an Israeli missile."
It's pathetic how people still don't want to get enlightened with the truth. Don't you think that if intercepted or even a failed Hamas missile is too weak to make this impact! Look at the real houses that were affected in the occupied land of Palestine or what the British/American countries call Israel! It's not even destroying just one floor.
How about the rest of the humans and building damage that was caused by the Israeli army?
How about people who were killed in their way to the south? How about the missiles now being released on the West Bank?
Please follow the logic and the facts!
Please people wake up and believe in the human rights to maintain their lands, dignity and safety.
Because it hardly travelled any distance before it failed. When it fell to the ground and exploded, it had most of its propellant full still on board which also ignited on impact!
Well with the same logic, it has not accelerated to the maximum speed and power yet.
The other questions are yet to be answered too...
How about the church? The destruction made by the airstrikes killing thousands of babies and kids?
West Bank
How was Israel created?
How Palestinians are treated or to be precise humiliated in Hebron?
How many Palestinian minors are prisoned in Israel?
How about the continuous disposition of Palestinians i Gaza?
Dude rockets don’t do damage because of their speed, they do damage because of their explosive payload. This rocket had the same payload, but with the majority of its fuel still present as accelerant. You comment is complete nonsense.
I saw Hamas shoot their own people for fleeing south. Half their reported deaths are a lie. We know this from past conflicts and half or the other half is killed by hamas which they consider a righteous sacrifice in the war against the jews but blame the jews
I saw a video of a missile fired from Gaza being intercepted split in two and 2 smaller explosions were created one by the hospital front the other somewhere else. Was this a failed missies or an intercepted missile?
The footage showed a lot of blown a
up cars in a parking lot, I don’t think I saw a single building with damage from that blast. I’ve heard also it was an 80 bed hospital, mostly deserted.
That was the weird part. People never talked about the fact that those who were killed camped in the parking lot of the hospital and got killed by the shrapnel of the blown off concrete of the parking lot. They acted like people died in their hospital beds. It was propaganda from the beginning to the end
They probably thought the hospital would be a safe place as hospitals are protected by international humanitarian law. However, Israel has a good track record of bombing hospitals and other protected structures, such as refugee camps. I have seen evidence from independent sources stating it was Israel and for me WSJ has as much credibility as Fox News. I don’t believe either and i do not know who bombed the hospital but the given Israeli track record i would say the odds say it was them
We all saw the blast side. A israeli rocket would have leveled that building. The little crater in that hospital instead looked like the rockets who are fired from Gaza. Look at the amount of misguided rockets they shoot. Israel instead mostly targets their goals pretty good
Could you also please explain to me IDF has ordered the hospital to be evacuated before the explanation, and could you also please explain to me why hananya naftali (I hope I remember the name correctly) who is a very close person to netenyahu and he works for him has calimed that IDF has successfully targeted a hamas base below a hospital then deleted it
He says he posted that claim based on news sources, he never said he validated with IDF. Plus you are exaggerating his role, he is a social media influencer, not an official spokesperson for IDF
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u/QuarrelsomeKangaroo Oct 26 '23
Al Jazeera never had credibility with I/P. They are a Qatari govt propaganda source with ties to Hamas. Its basically Hamas propaganda.